Roguish Wildjack locked my a/c and 'reviewing my withdrawal request'.

[irmster]

I joined Wildjack on Tuesday - took their sub and after WR, made a withdrawal request for £2k.

I deposited a little more today and then emailed them asking when my withdrawal from Tues would be made.

I have received the following reply:

"After further review of our records, we have noticed that you requested a self-exclusion at a different online casino, therefore your casino account has been locked.

In addition, this issue has been passed on to our Financial Department for further review. Once we have any updates we will contact you immediately."

I have never excluded myself from that casino - if they wanted to stop me playing why did it take them 3 days - and further deposits to do it - and only locked my a/c when I asked when my withdrawal will be made? Surely they can't just keep my deposits and winnings because I excluded myself from a different casino?

I have emailed the rep - but he hasn't posted since last year, so not sure if he is still around.

 

[dunover]

Yes, I had this experience a while ago, with WJ - an 810 profit was voided for a different reason ( I had a lost wallet and cancelled all my debit and credit cards over a very stressful morning) which resulted in one or two out of several historical WJ transactions not being reaffirmed by the provider when the mess was sorted out.
This is a common excuse for this shower and many others. especially the Cassava group. They will happily allow you to sign up at other properties and lose, but when it comes to a W/D miraculously their amnesia stops, and their system suddenly spots this 'error' that you self-excluded elsewhere, even though you had no idea the sites were associated. Then they 'generously' void your winnings and return your stakes......

P.S. Somehow this lot are 'accredited' so I'd suggest do your homework and check their allegations about SE elsewhere, and then PAB. I do note your observation about the absentee rep; regrettably this seems to be quite common for several accredited sites on here, many of whom relax their attention to CM once they have secured their status. If you PAB no doubt they will wake up all of a sudden, having been 'on holiday' 'ill' or any other standard reason.

 

[dionysus]

they're accredited here and you can contact the rep here:https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

 

[Nifty29]

I joined Wildjack on Tuesday - took their sub and after WR, made a withdrawal request for £2k.

I deposited a little more today and then emailed them asking when my withdrawal from Tues would be made.

I have received the following reply:

"After further review of our records, we have noticed that you requested a self-exclusion at a different online casino, therefore your casino account has been locked.

In addition, this issue has been passed on to our Financial Department for further review. Once we have any updates we will contact you immediately."

I have never excluded myself from that casino - if they wanted to stop me playing why did it take them 3 days - and further deposits to do it - and only locked my a/c when I asked when my withdrawal will be made? Surely they can't just keep my deposits and winnings because I excluded myself from a different casino?

I have emailed the rep - but he hasn't posted since last year, so not sure if he is still around.

It depends on the SE policy at the casino you originally SE'd from irmster. If it says something like "includes all casinos in our group" then you're probably SOL.

WJ aren't a tinpot operation so I can't see them making up stuff to rob you of $2k, especially when you've shown loyalty by depositing again in the meantime.

SE is a grey area with online casinos. Its difficult to stop players at signup as they often (deliberately) use different emails etc.

 

[chuchu59]

I joined Wildjack on Tuesday - took their sub and after WR, made a withdrawal request for £2k.

I deposited a little more today and then emailed them asking when my withdrawal from Tues would be made.

I have received the following reply:

"After further review of our records, we have noticed that you requested a self-exclusion at a different online casino, therefore your casino account has been locked.

In addition, this issue has been passed on to our Financial Department for further review. Once we have any updates we will contact you immediately."

I have never excluded myself from that casino - if they wanted to stop me playing why did it take them 3 days - and further deposits to do it - and only locked my a/c when I asked when my withdrawal will be made? Surely they can't just keep my deposits and winnings because I excluded myself from a different casino?

I have emailed the rep - but he hasn't posted since last year, so not sure if he is still around.

It doesn't matter whether the casino you self-excluded from was the same one they mentioned. As long as it belongs to their group they have a duty of care towards gambling addiction and are right to lock your account to er help you out.

Nevertheless, if SE is such an important aspect why is there nothing during registration on this ie a question asking whether you have ever self-excluded yourself from a casino and if so, whether this is still in effect. As no such info was available you cannot blame the casino for only detecting this upon your cashout as this is the only time that they can perform their due diligence. Obviously some rogue casinos will use this as an excuse not to pay but you cannot second-guess their intentions.

 

[mrmark21]

I remember seeing some idiot from Australia on this forum posting that casinos should be able to keep deposits in these sorts of circumstances So it's good to see that you're post is receiving a good reception While it would be great if the casino let you keep you're winnings I think returning you're deposit was a step towards the right direction

Have you excluded yourself from any other casino within this group?

 

[Nifty29]

I remember seeing some idiot from Australia on this forum posting that casinos should be able to keep deposits in these sorts of circumstances So it's good to see that you're post is receiving a good reception While it would be great if the casino let you keep you're winnings I think returning you're deposit was a step towards the right direction

Have you excluded yourself from any other casino within this group?

Which idiot? It could be anyone...

Link?

 

[irmster]

I have now received another email from them as follows:

"You requested self-exclusion period on the other casino, but the period of your self-exclusion request has already been expired. Your withdrawal is still with the financial department. The information regarding your casino account status and your withdrawal we should receive from them after the weekend. "

While it would be great if the casino let you keep you're winnings I think returning you're deposit was a step towards the right direction

I haven't had my deposits returned and this has not (yet) been suggested. I believe I should receive my winnings.

It depends on the SE policy at the casino you originally SE'd from irmster. If it says something like "includes all casinos in our group" then you're probably SOL.

WJ aren't a tinpot operation so I can't see them making up stuff to rob you of $2k, especially when you've shown loyalty by depositing again in the meantime.

SE is a grey area with online casinos. Its difficult to stop players at signup as they often (deliberately) use different emails etc.

There is nothing in their TOC regarding this nor have I received any email from them with this condition. I have also used the same email address to sign up to casinos for the last few years (if it was before then, it may have been an old email address).

 

[chuchu59]

Since the SE period has lapsed the casino cannot lock the account and must honour the winnings followed by an apology. I would have thought that the casino had carefully checked and considered everything before arriving at their conclusion. The casino should have simply stated the lock was temporary pending a thorough investigation. As it is they soured things and led the player to believe there is still a self-exclusion in place. I hope they learn from this.

 

[jetset]

Since the SE period has lapsed the casino cannot lock the account and must honour the winnings followed by an apology. I would have thought that the casino had carefully checked and considered everything before arriving at their conclusion. The casino should have simply stated the lock was temporary pending a thorough investigation. As it is they soured things and led the player to believe there is still a self-exclusion in place. I hope they learn from this.

I agree - clumsy handling by security and CRM, imo.

Let's hope they now get a move on in finalising this issue.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well, if the self exclusion had expired, how come the data on it was still "live", and not only still being actively shared, but INCORRECTLY shared so as to imply the self exclusion period was still in effect. Once a self exclusion period has lapsed, the data should no longer be shared on an industry wide database as an "active exclusion", but stored as "archive" data, a historical record of fact no longer to be acted upon.

It seems a case of "shoot first, check later", and in an industry that seems determined to destroy the trust of the customers, can make it look as though the decision not to pay came first, followed by an expedition to find the best excuse to back it up.

Wild Jack is NOT actually Jackpot Factory, and hasn't been for some years since JF sold it off. It now seems that the buyer of Wild Jack has bought up all the other JF casinos, and moved them so that all operate under an LGA license (Malta). At the same time, the terms and conditions at the remaining JF casinos suffered a change for the worse, including the removal of VIP benefits and a change to 48 hour pending with no flush.

The old JF rep may no longer be around, hence the lack of activity for the past year.

If one read the terms for the last few years of the regular JF promotions, it listed that they were eligible at All Slots, All Jackpots, VIP Lounge. No longer mentioned at all was Wild Jack, and then First Web stopped being mentioned. If a group wide JF promo never has Wild Jack listed, then this backs up the other evidence that Wild Jack was no longer being run by JF.

 

[mrmark21]

Which idiot? It could be anyone...

Link?

no idea nifty can just remember reading that somewhere and thinking gee australians settle, wasnt you obviously

 

[mrmark21]

I haven't had my deposits returned and this has not (yet) been suggested. I believe I should receive my winnings.

they should at least give youre deposits back, i'd like to see them give you the winnings as well.

 

[irmster]

So they have now changed their minds and decided that I am self excluded from another casino and therefore Wildjack are voiding my £2000 winnings and refunding my deposits, saving themselves £1600 in the process. ("because of their responsible gaming policy and ecogra rules").

Anyway, I have done some digging, and here are the facts:

1. I am excluded from another Jackpot factory casino, (although as noted above Wildjack is is no longer listed by them as part of the group.)

2. I registered with both casino's with the same details (address, email address everything) - yet they were happy to continue taking my deposits for 5 days after opening - and only took action when I wanted a withdrawal.

3. There is nothing in either the Terms or the Responsible gaming policy on wildjack stating the self-exclusion on another side would result in winnings being voided.

I am not disputing the fact having looked into to it regarding the self exclusion. I do find it very shoddy that they only blocked my account when I wanted a withdrawal yet were happy to keep taking my money. Given I gave 'EXACTLY' the same registration info for both sites, it was clear I was not trying to get round any rules.

I'm not sure what I can do here, but for an accredited casino, it's very disappointing.

 

[vinylweatherman]

So they have now changed their minds and decided that I am self excluded from another casino and therefore Wildjack are voiding my £2000 winnings and refunding my deposits, saving themselves £1600 in the process. ("because of their responsible gaming policy and ecogra rules").

Anyway, I have done some digging, and here are the facts:

1. I am excluded from another Jackpot factory casino, (although as noted above Wildjack is is no longer listed by them as part of the group.)

2. I registered with both casino's with the same details (address, email address everything) - yet they were happy to continue taking my deposits for 5 days after opening - and only took action when I wanted a withdrawal.

3. There is nothing in either the Terms or the Responsible gaming policy on wildjack stating the self-exclusion on another side would result in winnings being voided.

I am not disputing the fact having looked into to it regarding the self exclusion. I do find it very shoddy that they only blocked my account when I wanted a withdrawal yet were happy to keep taking my money. Given I gave 'EXACTLY' the same registration info for both sites, it was clear I was not trying to get round any rules.

I'm not sure what I can do here, but for an accredited casino, it's very disappointing.

I thought the self exclusion had lapsed. Are they saying this is no longer the case?

To take 5 days to spot a self exclusion due to a gambling problem is very poor in any case, especially since the checking would have been simple due to the same information having been used on the Wild Jack account being stored on the self exclusion database.

This is the WRONG way to deal with policing self exclusion due to a gambling problem. A compulsive gambler can do a great deal of damage to themselves in 5 days of being allowed to freely deposit and go on tilt. Refunding deposits after the fact does not prevent the damage from being done in the time it takes to act.

It also shows that the system itself is not fit for purpose, as this is 5 days at a time at each of the hundreds of possible venues that a self excluded gambler could get away with playing at during the time it takes for the systems to detect the problem and freeze the account.

It seems that casinos believe that tackling this issue means that so long as all deposits are refunded in the end, it does not matter how long and for how much the problem gambler was able to play beforehand.

 

[irmster]

I thought the self exclusion had lapsed. Are they saying this is no longer the case?

.

Yes.

No doubt if I hadn't won or hadn't won more than I deposited, they would never have said anything. The systems used by MG can I believe flag up this in a matter of minutes - they just chose to ignore it until it was going to cost them money.

 

[dunover]

So they have now changed their minds and decided that I am self excluded from another casino and therefore Wildjack are voiding my £2000 winnings and refunding my deposits, saving themselves £1600 in the process. ("because of their responsible gaming policy and ecogra rules").

Anyway, I have done some digging, and here are the facts:

1. I am excluded from another Jackpot factory casino, (although as noted above Wildjack is is no longer listed by them as part of the group.)

2. I registered with both casino's with the same details (address, email address everything) - yet they were happy to continue taking my deposits for 5 days after opening - and only took action when I wanted a withdrawal.

3. There is nothing in either the Terms or the Responsible gaming policy on wildjack stating the self-exclusion on another side would result in winnings being voided.

I am not disputing the fact having looked into to it regarding the self exclusion. I do find it very shoddy that they only blocked my account when I wanted a withdrawal yet were happy to keep taking my money. Given I gave 'EXACTLY' the same registration info for both sites, it was clear I was not trying to get round any rules.

I'm not sure what I can do here, but for an accredited casino, it's very disappointing.

I would PAB here on a few grounds. They state SE but then that it has expired. The casino is no longer in the group according to your research. They let you deposit and took 5 days to notice - that is NOT good enough. IF a true group-wide SE policy and system was in place, then ANY single detail should have flagged you at the point of signing up. I have on one or two occasions closed accounts years ago and forgotten about them, and have tried to rejoin the casino or one allied to it, and as soon as I submit my form the red writing comes up 'e-mail address already exists' or 'contact customer services' or 'details match an existing account' etc.

Their system is useless in this respect and they clearly like it like that as the days of delay allow them to make a decision based on whether you won or lost ex post facto. In my case they had a far more valid reason to void my account that they have with you, and the same happened - as soon as I w/d the aggro started, and like you I had made a decent profit and had to settle for deposits returned. The thing is we both know had we LOST we would have had our deposits retained and instead of remembering after 4 or 5 days, they would have had a case of amnesia....

I do believe in UKGC or licensing rules there is a stipulation somewhere that excluded players should, if having deposited somehow, have their accounts set at zero and winnings voided and deposits returned. If anyone can find it, thanks.

 

[irmster]

I do believe in UKGC or licensing rules there is a stipulation somewhere that excluded players should, if having deposited somehow, have their accounts set at zero and winnings voided and deposits returned. If anyone can find it, thanks.

this is what e-COGRA (who Wildjack are quoting) say on the matter:

"The account shall be locked and any funds in the account
paid out, subject to appropriate and necessary checks and
verifications."

Nothing about voiding winnings.

 

[vinylweatherman]

this is what e-COGRA (who Wildjack are quoting) say on the matter:

"The account shall be locked and any funds in the account
paid out, subject to appropriate and necessary checks and
verifications."

Nothing about voiding winnings.

I think this is based on the assumption that the casino would notice QUICKLY, and so the player may have managed to slip a deposit through, but would have barely had a chance to play before the hammer fell and the account got locked.

If taken literally as stated by this guidance, the funds now include the fruits of 5 days of play, which should all be paid out "subject to ........ checks".

I do believe the UKGC have the voiding of all bets rule, but this comes with a requirement to spot the situation quickly, and the bets should be voided whether or not the player has won or lost.

In this case, either it took an unacceptable 5 days to perform simple checks, or there was a deliberate policy of not even making the necessary checks till an excluded player made their first withdrawal.

By their nature, problem gamblers are not best known for their "problem winning", else they would not be "problem gamblers" to start with. People with gambling problems don't know when to stop, and this in many cases means they will NOT make a withdrawal after a decent win, but will lose it all back and more trying to chase something even bigger, which no matter how big, is never going to be enough.

 

[irmster]

So a few hours ago they said "the amount of your withdrawal has been confiscated and all deposits made to your casino account have been voided and returned back to you."

Except it turns out they haven't returned any of the deposits and now want copies of bank statements for review first.

Just more conflicting statements - very tiresome. No doubt they will reject my bank statements as they are online ones, or think up another excuse. £2k winnings lost, and now £550 in deposits not returned after they said they had.

 

[dunover]

So a few hours ago they said "the amount of your withdrawal has been confiscated and all deposits made to your casino account have been voided and returned back to you."

Except it turns out they haven't returned any of the deposits and now want copies of bank statements for review first.

Just more conflicting statements - very tiresome. No doubt they will reject my bank statements as they are online ones, or think up another excuse. £2k winnings lost, and now £550 in deposits not returned after they said they had.

Trust me if you had deposited with a credit card they would have already refunded it or not claimed the deposit. They know you are justified in charging back and it doesn't look good on them to have this happen too often. You've used a debit card? They will mess you about, but probably pay you - they have to anyway as you stated in the last post you made before this quoted one. I really think you should PAB here as the casino is being totally disingenuous when it comes to fair play. You cannot deposit there again, and they do not need to verify you at all to refund you. At the end of the day they allowed a deposit, they don't want to pay your winnings but to close your account and void it. That means returning a deposit (which by rights they shouldn't have accepted anyway) to the source of the deposit. It really shouldn't matter about 'checks' because as long as they return the deposit to source they've kept their noses clean.

I had my doubts about Wild Jacks but this confirms what I thought back then - they are in MY eyes a rogue outfit to be avoided. Have you contacted their rep yet or is he AWOL like many others seem to be?

 

[vinylweatherman]

So a few hours ago they said "the amount of your withdrawal has been confiscated and all deposits made to your casino account have been voided and returned back to you."

Except it turns out they haven't returned any of the deposits and now want copies of bank statements for review first.

Just more conflicting statements - very tiresome. No doubt they will reject my bank statements as they are online ones, or think up another excuse. £2k winnings lost, and now £550 in deposits not returned after they said they had.

Have you complained to eCogra about this?

If your period of self exclusion has lapsed, they cannot justify this. If it hasn't, why did they tell you it had? Lastly, how come they only decided to "protect you" after 5 days of play?

 

[asadzareef89]

So a few hours ago they said "the amount of your withdrawal has been confiscated and all deposits made to your casino account have been voided and returned back to you."

Except it turns out they haven't returned any of the deposits and now want copies of bank statements for review first.

Just more conflicting statements - very tiresome. No doubt they will reject my bank statements as they are online ones, or think up another excuse. £2k winnings lost, and now £550 in deposits not returned after they said they had.

If you are in the Uk, write all the facts that you have that its not in their T&C's that you being on SE from another casino will affect your gaming here and also their conflicting replies. If you can tell them if they dont give your money back you would be willing to submit a PAB or go to small claims court against them and it would affect their company in the UK. Also add the link

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Then check their reply and if its not satisfactory go for PAB as its free and if even after that you dont get the result go to small claims court, you would get your winnings from there and if they fail to respond to the court they would be referred to FSA which will blacklist them after investigation. Remember it would cost you 80 pounds for 2000 but in the case you win your claim the respondent would have to pay all your fees, you wont have to pay theirs as you have a genuine case where they have confiscated ur winnings and have to be answerable.

According to gambling Act of 2006 they are not allowed to confiscate winnings if u have met all their terms and Self exclusion clause wasnt there, make a copy of their terms now in case they update it at a later date.

You would also be eligible for compensation on the time you lost chasing your money, including any money spent on phones, car, time spent on emails etc

But dont let the matter lie, keep emailing them as you would have a record of your conversations that way

 

[dunover]

Have you complained to eCogra about this?

If your period of self exclusion has lapsed, they cannot justify this. If it hasn't, why did they tell you it had? Lastly, how come they only decided to "protect you" after 5 days of play?

If you remember my thread about the lost wallet which came back to bite me a year later, then this is the same thing that happened to me. They didn't flag me or stop me or e-mail me until AFTER I tried to w/d a decent profit. Then they decided they needed an excuse not to pay me. After 4 or 5 days.

 

[irmster]

Have you complained to eCogra about this?

If your period of self exclusion has lapsed, they cannot justify this. If it hasn't, why did they tell you it had? Lastly, how come they only decided to "protect you" after 5 days of play?

they told me it had, but it turns out it hasn't. Seems they only blocked me once I wanted a withdrawal.

The deposits were by debit card, so I am relying on them refunding.

I will PAB, at least so their behaviour as an accredited casino can be looked into, even if they are correct that I am still SE from a sister site.

So under the PAB rules, I won't make further posts for the moment. Thanks for all the replies.