***
Hello fellow forum members!
In light of some of the recent threads, as well as some of my own issues with specific casinos, I have some thoughts to share and questions to ask on the topic of the casino in relation to the software provider.
At what point will the casino (in general) stop hiding behind the software provider? To be more clear, when people complain about the RNG, or software glitches, or payouts, or whatever one can come up with, the casino will quickly tell you that they're not responsible for the outcome of any game, or any mistake/error with the software.
Well, that would be okay if the software providers spoke-up once in a while, answered queries, instead of just being the silent partner. But... everyone knows that they never say anything. They really don't reveal anything about themselves, we just have to trust what we hear and read despite not really ever knowing anything about how it all works. So, I think that the casino IS responsible BECAUSE the software provider never answers any question directly or even indirectly.
If K-Mart (of all places) sells me a Star Wars: X-Wing back in '83 without a Luke Skywalker action figure (which is supposed to be in the box as advertised on the box), does K-Mart say that they have no control over that, it's up to the people at Kenner to give you answers? Someone might say that my example is poor, but people who sell the product - the casino/poker room - are the one's who are "generally" responsible for fixing the problem.
I get so sick of hearing that any problem is out of the hands of the casino. I recently had a problem in a poker room, during a Sit&Go tournament, and I was disconnected. The poker lobby was still active, but the game windows (playing multiple tables) were closed in the middle of the tournament. It turns out, that the software provider either had a crash, or was performing a sudden upgrade. The fee to enter the tournaments wasn't instantly credited, and I had to pursue them (with vigor and conviction) to get my (roughly) $13.00 back. The casino/poker room, wouldn't credit me (at that time) because the software provider (MG) didn't have sufficient enough proof that my funds were lost (even though they KNOW that this crash/update occurred).
Needless to say, I was so pissed off with MG, the casino/poker room, and the way they mishandled all of it. I was credited after countless emails, so I'm not necessarily upset with the management of that poker room at this point in time, but what if it had been for hundred of dollars, and not for $13 USD?
The site claimed that they couldn't refund me until MG was satisfied with the information that I could provide for them. Odd, don't they have all of that on file? Can't they access their own software? MG was taking a stand, but I find it funny that they couldn't contact me directly. I've sent them about half-a-dozen emails over the past several years (since '02), and have yet to get a response on any of them.
So, why do casinos always do the "you win some you lose some and you're due for a huge win soon" when they claim they have no control over the RNG. They don't even know (as they'll conveniently tell you when you complain about payouts) that's all up to MG, so how can they pass along sufficient information on to the customer?
"Simmo!" talked about the need for more transparency, and I think that this is one of them. For the life of me, I don't feel sorry for the casino taking heat when the player is losing his/her shirt and wants to vent about it. They sell the MG product, that's where the customer goes to play it, that's who needs to address the customers problems (directly and not any other way). They're both in the business to make money, to which they more than likely do, the player generally loses (as expected), but when the player complains (which is just as expected as losing), they don't like it. Well, of course they don't, and I don't blame them for not liking it, but I also feel for the player that lost, and I don't think that's wrong either.
They say that the player can't cry foul because they knew what they were getting into, but in the same breath, the casino can't cry about having to deal with complaints because they're in the industry where the customer is on the losing side of things. What do they expect, "Boy, that RNG really kicked-me-around good today... wow... that was entertaining even if the payout was at just 79%... I can't wait to come back... don't worry about me, I don't complain because I fully accept that I'm going to lose in the end"!
Two things:
a) This nonsense of the support rep./casino manager coming in and saying (for example) "Oh, that darn RNG is a wee bit hungry this time, I sure wish you could win, maybe that win is coming real soon, but you know what, we can't control anything on our end" isn't really a satisfying answer. In fact, it's insulting. I'm going to be told that it's wrong to think the way I do, but for playing at almost every notable casino over the better part of the past 10 years, I think I'm well informed enough and worthy enough to make my feelings heard on this one.
b) I'm sorry, but I can't help but think that people gamble in hopes of winning. The entertainment is winning (not just for the sake of killing time), that's why gamblers are gamblers, and the hopes of the gambler is to make that HUGE hit to take them to that next level. If a gambler fully accepts, I mean 100% accepts, buys into and realizes that they're doomed for failure, why continue? People may say that they completely understand that they're going to lose, but do they completely accept that they're going to lose is a different story. I think if someone accepts that it's hopeless, because enough people say that they're okay with being on the losing side of variance for the sake of "entertainment", then what would provoke you to continue playing? It's one thing to say that you understand what it all means, it's another thing to realize that winning isn't in the cards and over many years will result in heavy losses.
I love gambling, I'm a gambler, and I have a problem accepting that I can't win in the end, after all of these years, so I will no longer be depositing at any casino site. But, what choice do I have once I've completely realized that I can't get ahead in the end? I will play poker, I've worked VERY hard and put in a ton of time at improving my game & knowledge of the game, and it fulfills my need to gamble (although with more skill than luck), but I won't play at any casino again. Having said that, if there was no poker, sadly, I probably wouldn't stop playing at the casinos, because I always hope - that's a part of being a gambler and being very competitive - that a HUGE win will do wonders for me, and hey, there's one just around the corner. It could happen, but it likely won't. The games are tons of fun, but I hate that feeling of getting desperate to come up with some cash after a losing sessions, and justifying that I was just unlucky again.
***
Another question I wanted to ask concerns instant payouts. I've read enough times that an online banking option such as NeTeller, can allow anyone to withdraw and deposit instantly. Some sites (however many are left) in the past allowed instant withdrawals; instant as in a second. Most casinos say that they're holding onto the player's funds, for security reasons (although some of those places won't allow the player to flush, or will reverse the flush in an instant... which are both bad), or that the costs of instant withdrawals is too expensive for them to do.
Well then, why not allow the player to pay for the cost of the instant withdrawal? Really now! I'm 100% certain that players would pay for this, to get it back as instantly as humanly possible. People lose sleep over waiting to get paid. You know, when people go weeks/months/years at a time without withdrawing, suddenly they finally win something, they're likely to be a bit on edge about getting their funds, and they aren't absolutely comfortable as to whether or not the funds will arrive, and the fun and the experience turns into something less than meets the eye. In fact, it's cruel. At the very least, give the player the option to pay for it, instead of using the excuse that it's too expensive. Hey, playing and losing is REALLY expensive!
***
One last thought (if you're still there) is that it's often said that the casinos aren't paying-out like before because of the tough times economically (globally). I just think that's absurd. If that were true, I'm not saying that it is or isn't, that's so ethically wrong. A solidly operated casino with a strong enough client base, should be more than capable to feed themselves through a bear market.
Steed
***
Hello fellow forum members!
In light of some of the recent threads, as well as some of my own issues with specific casinos, I have some thoughts to share and questions to ask on the topic of the casino in relation to the software provider.
At what point will the casino (in general) stop hiding behind the software provider? To be more clear, when people complain about the RNG, or software glitches, or payouts, or whatever one can come up with, the casino will quickly tell you that they're not responsible for the outcome of any game, or any mistake/error with the software.
Well, that would be okay if the software providers spoke-up once in a while, answered queries, instead of just being the silent partner. But... everyone knows that they never say anything. They really don't reveal anything about themselves, we just have to trust what we hear and read despite not really ever knowing anything about how it all works. So, I think that the casino IS responsible BECAUSE the software provider never answers any question directly or even indirectly.
If K-Mart (of all places) sells me a Star Wars: X-Wing back in '83 without a Luke Skywalker action figure (which is supposed to be in the box as advertised on the box), does K-Mart say that they have no control over that, it's up to the people at Kenner to give you answers? Someone might say that my example is poor, but people who sell the product - the casino/poker room - are the one's who are "generally" responsible for fixing the problem.
I get so sick of hearing that any problem is out of the hands of the casino. I recently had a problem in a poker room, during a Sit&Go tournament, and I was disconnected. The poker lobby was still active, but the game windows (playing multiple tables) were closed in the middle of the tournament. It turns out, that the software provider either had a crash, or was performing a sudden upgrade. The fee to enter the tournaments wasn't instantly credited, and I had to pursue them (with vigor and conviction) to get my (roughly) $13.00 back. The casino/poker room, wouldn't credit me (at that time) because the software provider (MG) didn't have sufficient enough proof that my funds were lost (even though they KNOW that this crash/update occurred).
Needless to say, I was so pissed off with MG, the casino/poker room, and the way they mishandled all of it. I was credited after countless emails, so I'm not necessarily upset with the management of that poker room at this point in time, but what if it had been for hundred of dollars, and not for $13 USD?
The site claimed that they couldn't refund me until MG was satisfied with the information that I could provide for them. Odd, don't they have all of that on file? Can't they access their own software? MG was taking a stand, but I find it funny that they couldn't contact me directly. I've sent them about half-a-dozen emails over the past several years (since '02), and have yet to get a response on any of them.
So, why do casinos always do the "you win some you lose some and you're due for a huge win soon" when they claim they have no control over the RNG. They don't even know (as they'll conveniently tell you when you complain about payouts) that's all up to MG, so how can they pass along sufficient information on to the customer?
"Simmo!" talked about the need for more transparency, and I think that this is one of them. For the life of me, I don't feel sorry for the casino taking heat when the player is losing his/her shirt and wants to vent about it. They sell the MG product, that's where the customer goes to play it, that's who needs to address the customers problems (directly and not any other way). They're both in the business to make money, to which they more than likely do, the player generally loses (as expected), but when the player complains (which is just as expected as losing), they don't like it. Well, of course they don't, and I don't blame them for not liking it, but I also feel for the player that lost, and I don't think that's wrong either.
They say that the player can't cry foul because they knew what they were getting into, but in the same breath, the casino can't cry about having to deal with complaints because they're in the industry where the customer is on the losing side of things. What do they expect, "Boy, that RNG really kicked-me-around good today... wow... that was entertaining even if the payout was at just 79%... I can't wait to come back... don't worry about me, I don't complain because I fully accept that I'm going to lose in the end"!
Two things:
a) This nonsense of the support rep./casino manager coming in and saying (for example) "Oh, that darn RNG is a wee bit hungry this time, I sure wish you could win, maybe that win is coming real soon, but you know what, we can't control anything on our end" isn't really a satisfying answer. In fact, it's insulting. I'm going to be told that it's wrong to think the way I do, but for playing at almost every notable casino over the better part of the past 10 years, I think I'm well informed enough and worthy enough to make my feelings heard on this one.
b) I'm sorry, but I can't help but think that people gamble in hopes of winning. The entertainment is winning (not just for the sake of killing time), that's why gamblers are gamblers, and the hopes of the gambler is to make that HUGE hit to take them to that next level. If a gambler fully accepts, I mean 100% accepts, buys into and realizes that they're doomed for failure, why continue? People may say that they completely understand that they're going to lose, but do they completely accept that they're going to lose is a different story. I think if someone accepts that it's hopeless, because enough people say that they're okay with being on the losing side of variance for the sake of "entertainment", then what would provoke you to continue playing? It's one thing to say that you understand what it all means, it's another thing to realize that winning isn't in the cards and over many years will result in heavy losses.
I love gambling, I'm a gambler, and I have a problem accepting that I can't win in the end, after all of these years, so I will no longer be depositing at any casino site. But, what choice do I have once I've completely realized that I can't get ahead in the end? I will play poker, I've worked VERY hard and put in a ton of time at improving my game & knowledge of the game, and it fulfills my need to gamble (although with more skill than luck), but I won't play at any casino again. Having said that, if there was no poker, sadly, I probably wouldn't stop playing at the casinos, because I always hope - that's a part of being a gambler and being very competitive - that a HUGE win will do wonders for me, and hey, there's one just around the corner. It could happen, but it likely won't. The games are tons of fun, but I hate that feeling of getting desperate to come up with some cash after a losing sessions, and justifying that I was just unlucky again.
***
Another question I wanted to ask concerns instant payouts. I've read enough times that an online banking option such as NeTeller, can allow anyone to withdraw and deposit instantly. Some sites (however many are left) in the past allowed instant withdrawals; instant as in a second. Most casinos say that they're holding onto the player's funds, for security reasons (although some of those places won't allow the player to flush, or will reverse the flush in an instant... which are both bad), or that the costs of instant withdrawals is too expensive for them to do.
Well then, why not allow the player to pay for the cost of the instant withdrawal? Really now! I'm 100% certain that players would pay for this, to get it back as instantly as humanly possible. People lose sleep over waiting to get paid. You know, when people go weeks/months/years at a time without withdrawing, suddenly they finally win something, they're likely to be a bit on edge about getting their funds, and they aren't absolutely comfortable as to whether or not the funds will arrive, and the fun and the experience turns into something less than meets the eye. In fact, it's cruel. At the very least, give the player the option to pay for it, instead of using the excuse that it's too expensive. Hey, playing and losing is REALLY expensive!
***
One last thought (if you're still there) is that it's often said that the casinos aren't paying-out like before because of the tough times economically (globally). I just think that's absurd. If that were true, I'm not saying that it is or isn't, that's so ethically wrong. A solidly operated casino with a strong enough client base, should be more than capable to feed themselves through a bear market.
Steed
***
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