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UltimateBet - Absolute Poker Scam

Latest development is another KGC press release promising an independent enquiry by online gambling consultant Frank Catania.

This is very disappointing and to my mind does not indicate good faith and an honest KGC intention to get to the bottom of this affair.

Although he is a knowledgeable (on regulatory matters) and respected figure in the industry, Catania can not imo be classified as "independent" in this matter due to his involvement with the KGC in its formative days, when he acted as consultant and helped to draft their regulations.

KGC would do far better by appointing a genuinely independent investigator, preferably aided by some of the player-detectives who have been so effective in uncovering these scandals.

Suspending the licence of Tokwiro would also be a good move until this business is finalised.

That's assuming there is a genuine desire to expose the sordid details of this mess to public scrutiny.....

In the meantime, here's the KGC statement:

KAHNAWAKE GAMING COMMISSION APPOINTS INDEPENDENT MONITORING-INVESTIGATION TEAM

Effective immediately, the Kahnawake Gaming Commission (KGC) has appointed an independent monitor to investigate the KGC Licensee, Tokwiro Ent., parent company of both Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet, led by former New Jersey State Gaming Regulator, Frank Catania.

Mr. Catania is a former Director of the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement (DGE), the regulatory and enforcement agency responsible for maintaining integrity and trust in all Atlantic City gaming operations. As division director, he was a driving force in updating the New Jersey Casino Control Act by fine tuning the balance between regulatory necessity and economic stewardship. After leaving the DGE, he served as the vice president in charge of compliance for Players International, Inc. where he was instrumental in resolving compliance issues the company had encountered in the State of Louisiana, prior to his appointment. He is a principal in Catania Gaming Consultants and the Law Offices of Catania & Associates LLC

The Independent Monitoring Team will be given the task of completing a full forensic audit/investigation of the online gaming business of both licensed entities. The main purpose of the investigation is to ensure that the games offered to the public are fair and honest and that all player protections as required by the Kahnawake Gaming Regulations are being complied with, without exception. The monitoring team will also be charged with verification that all those involved in the fraudulent activities in any manner, no matter how slight, have been or are removed from the licensee company and verify that Ultimate Bet and Absolute Poker have submitted to full compliance with the directives issued by the KGC and recommended by the independent monitor.

Furthermore, Mr. Catania's team will be empowered by the KGC to have full access to interview all employees, past or present, review all records, contact and interview all sub contractors and individuals whom the monitoring team believes necessary. Any failure by the licensees could result in immediate revocation of their license privileges with the KGC. In the event that any criminal activity is found to have occurred, such activity will be reported to the appropriate authorities for possible prosecution.

KGC License Holder, Tokwiro Enterprises has agreed to comply fully and submit to this independent monitor.

KGC Chairman, Dean Montour adds, "While the ongoing investigative process has dominated the attention of the KGC in recent months, we are fully confident in the ability of the Independent Monitoring Team to deliver results and assist the Commission in bringing this matter to a decisive conclusion."

As per the terms of the monitoring agreement, and at the conclusion of the process, the KGC will review the report of the monitoring team and enter the results into their final considerations at the time of ruling in the Ultimate Bet and Absolute Poker investigations.

Murray Marshall
Senior Advisor
Kahnawake Gaming Commission
 
The facts are out there for all to see.

This saga has been going on far too long with no real solution. Maybe the 60minutes show will apply some real pressure, but I fear they may portray the whole industry as a scam.

AP/UB/Tokwiro/KGC have severely damaged trust within the industry.

I liked poker because it relied on the element of skill. If I failed I knew it was down to a bad run of cards or a lack of ability. I can live with that.

I dont like the idea of a lazy pro looking at my hole cards to gather my money quicker.

Several 2+2 members deserve full respect for their efforts. Revealing this crap does not help their cause but they are true poker players.

I feel im wasting my time commenting on threads like this. I can do very little.

Yes, Lots0 sums it up pretty accurately
 
You know what will satisfy me...

Is when I see the Mounties marching the culprits (every last one of them) to jail in hand cuffs.

Until, this matter is turned over to law enforcement in Canada and a real investigation is done by real law enforcement, all Tokwiro's efforts to 'clear' their company name is in fact a joke... and not a very funny one at that.

If you read through the threads you'll also see they have received threats from various sides too.
Click to expand...
Yup, these criminals (and that is what they are) will stop at nothing to be able to continue stealing money from Poker Players.

I can guarantee that whatever name Tokwiro comes up with... I will have it Blacklisted on my site within minutes... I hope other webmasters will do the same.
 
One other thing this sordid affair proves is many of these so called gaming commissions never ever check the software of the operators they are supposed to regulate to make sure it is fair.
Lets face it if it wasn't for 2+2 this scam would in all likelihood still be ongoing.
I have never played anywhere that is regulated by kahnawake since this story broke and I hope many other players do the same.
 
Rusty said:
One other thing this sordid affair proves is many of these so called gaming commissions never ever check the software of the operators they are supposed to regulate to make sure it is fair.
Lets face it if it wasn't for 2+2 this scam would in all likelihood still be ongoing.
I have never played anywhere that is regulated by kahnawake since this story broke and I hope many other players do the same.
Click to expand...

Another excellent point, and one that the KGC has carefully steered clear of in its statements.

As to seeing the Mounties march the culprits off after a real investigation, I'm sure that eventuality appeals to all of us....but do the Canadian federal (or for that matter provincial) authorities have the cojones to risk another Mohawk "sovereignty" insurrection? So far there has been talk by officials but not a lot of action in that vein.
 
From the link Gary posted, it looks like the more respectable Mohawks Chiefs are well aware of Mr. Joe Norton's lack of respect for the law... any law.
 
USA2112 said:
Sad to say lots of money!
Click to expand...

It doesn't make sense to me. Hellmuth could take his pick from any poker site, yet he chooses to be associated with these crooks?

I'm guessing Phil's not short of a buck, so even if he needed to take a small pay cut, I would have thought it was worth it instead of having your reputation tarnished......even more in his case. ;)
 
jimbler said:
It doesn't make sense to me. Hellmuth could take his pick from any poker site, yet he chooses to be associated with these crooks?

I'm guessing Phil's not short of a buck, so even if he needed to take a small pay cut, I would have thought it was worth it instead of having your reputation tarnished......even more in his case. ;)
Click to expand...

I think it's either 1 of 2 things:

1: UB has Phil Brainwashed
2: Phil signed a 5+ year contract and can't get out of it :)
 
winbig said:
I think it's either 1 of 2 things:

1: UB has Phil Brainwashed
2: Phil signed a 5+ year contract and can't get out of it :)
Click to expand...
It would have to be #1 as 99.9% of endorsement contracts (assuming proper representation by a licensed agency) have broad termination clauses. Jurisdiction would be interesting also. Anyway, money talks but it don't walk it appears!!!;):p;)
 
NASHVEGAS said:
It would have to be #1 as 99.9% of endorsement contracts (assuming proper representation by a licensed agency) have broad termination clauses. Jurisdiction would be interesting also. Anyway, money talks but it don't walk it appears!!!;):p;)
Click to expand...

Oh, I forgot #3:

Phil is too wrapped up in himself to even care what's really going on and how others think about him :)

OR the most believable #4:

Phil knows what's going on, but is using the controversy surrounding UB to get people to talk about him more and more.

It's working, isn't it? :D
 
jimbler said:
It doesn't make sense to me. Hellmuth could take his pick from any poker site, yet he chooses to be associated with these crooks?

I'm guessing Phil's not short of a buck, so even if he needed to take a small pay cut, I would have thought it was worth it instead of having your reputation tarnished......even more in his case. ;)
Click to expand...

I agree, and I am likewise disappointed that someone like Annie Duke continues to endorse UB and its "new" management.
 
I just watched Anne Duke in a NL Heads Up Tourney a few days ago... She was the only well known Pro that was NOT wearing any Online Poker Room Endorsements while at the Tourney.

I found this lack of Poker Room Advertisements on Ms. Duke's person to be interesting and worth commenting on.

As far as Phil H. goes... He is warped, he seems to think that his supposed "Rep" as the "Bad Boy" of poker extends to advertising for the worst cheaters in the online Poker World... Phil has shown himself time after time to be a few bricks short of a full load... If you get my drift. ;)
 
It doesn't make sense to me. Hellmuth could take his pick from any poker site, yet he chooses to be associated with these crooks?
Click to expand...

It has been discussed in another forum that he owns a part of UB. I certainly can't confirm that but many industry players seem to think that is the case.
 
Latest developments in UltimateBet debacle

Very interesting report on Ontario Superior Court proceedings involving Excapsa, Tokwiro, ex-Chief Norton et al.

Includes details of how much Tokwiro paid for Excapsa and it's rigged software in 2006.

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jetset said:
Very interesting report on Ontario Superior Court proceedings involving Excapsa, Tokwiro, ex-Chief Norton et al.

Includes details of how much Tokwiro paid for Excapsa and it's rigged software in 2006.

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Click to expand...

wow....

The commission identified U. S. professional poker player Russell Hamilton, a former consultant to Ultimate Bet, as "the main person responsible" for the cheating. Mr. Hamilton has not been charged with any criminal wrongdoing, and he has not responded publicly to the commission's allegations.
Click to expand...

He should be arrested and tried in court for this. At least that's what they'd do in Vegas and other casinos if you're found cheating; especially with the aid of a device, such as this.
 
Yes - it's unfortunate that the KGC did not add this to its other conditions for UB hanging on to its licence - it sounds as if this guy really needs to be prosecuted in a criminal sense.

Instead, the conditions merely require that any employee or contractor found to have been involved in the scam be removed.

(And refund all prejudiced players and be subject to various monitoring requirements, of course.)
 
You have to wonder.. This went on for years. Only 1 person has been named so far, someone with pretty good poker skills, but the technical skills of a peanut, so how did he do it?

I see the info released so far as a "Lets burn Russ and save the real guilty parties". If Russ was arrested/charged/sued, the really guilty people would have a huge problem if Russ spilled all the beans..

KGC is due to release their next statement regarding UB, which might name more names.

And before the flaming starts, I am not saying Russ was not involved, only that it is strange that a non-technical person was the only person to be named. Even AJ Green (of AP fame) had technical skills he could use to pull this off..
 
Update

KGC has released a statement saying it will entertain the UB request for a little more time to refund players based on the settlement agreed with Excapsa this week.

Then Tokwiro issued a statement yesterday (see Casinomeister News):

TOKWIRO CONFIRMS EXCAPSA DEAL (Update)

$15 million will help refund players

Players waiting for refunds following the cheating scandals at UltimateBet and Absolute Poker should see a renewed surge of payments following the settlement this week which saw the Excapsa liquidators agree to pay $15 million to Blast Off Limited, to which it sold the sites and the flawed poker software behind them.

Towards the end of the week Tokwiro Enterprises, the owner of the two sites caught up in the cheating debacle, issued a statement confirming the settlement...and interestingly reserved the right to pursue any individual or individuals implicated in the fraud. Industry observers see that as a possible reference to former WSOP champion Russ Hamilton, a former affiliate marketing executive of the company who was named in an independent enquiry into the issue.

The deal requires that Blast Off Limited, a company closely associated with Tokwiro, will resume paying purchase price instalments on the websites to the Excapsa liquidators in return for $15 million. This is to be used principally to refund players caught up in the long-running fraud and pay the hefty $1.5 million fine levied on UltimateBet by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. The settlement was approved and made an order of the Ontario Superior Court by Justice Sarah Pepall earlier this week.

Since refunds began on the orders of the KGC, some $6.1 million has been paid out by UltimateBet.

Tokwiro's Chief Operating Officer, Paul Leggett comments in the statement from the company: "We are pleased that we have finally agreed to a settlement with the previous owners of UltimateBet, and we are happy to announce the completion of the final refunds to players."

"Together with our regulatory body, the Kahnawake Gaming Commission, we have fought long and hard to hold those responsible accountable for the fraud, to refund players, and to ensure this can never happen again," the Tokwiro executive said, adding that the settlement finalised the company's claims against Excapsa and "....brings us significantly forward in our search for justice in the aftermath of the cheating scandal."

Leggett was part of a new Tokwiro management team brought in earlier this year, and is believed to be one of the principal architects behind its plan to create an online poker mega-company branded Cereus and comprised of UltimateBet and Absolute Poker.
 
UPDATE

Judging by the "60 Minutes" program publicity for the next edition on November 9, the AB/UB scandal expose will not be appearing just yet.

There were earlier predictions from various sources that the expose would be screened Nov 9 - looks like we'll have to be patient a little longer!
 
Yet another update!

ONLINE POKER EXPOSE TO BE SCREENED THIS WEEKEND (Update)

Washington Post and US television's Sixty Minutes combine in four month Tokwiro investigation

Four months of collaborative journalistic investigation by the Washington Post and CBS television's famed "60 Minutes" television producers culminate this weekend in the much anticipated screening of an expose on the multi-million dollar online poker cheating scandals at UltimateBet and Absolute Poker.

The program will be screened in the United States on November 30th at 7pm ET, and according to CBS pre-publicity material reveals how online poker players who suspected that cheating was going on were forced to successfully ferret out the cheaters themselves.

"That's because managers of the mostly-unregulated $18 billion Internet gambling industry failed to respond to their complaints," claims the blurb.

60 Minutes correspondent Steve Kroft, producer Ira Rosen and The Washington Posts two-time Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter Gilbert Gaul will appear in the program, along with a host of players and experts involved in the scandal.

"He was raising, just really, really bad hands against very good hands. He seemed to play crazy," says Todd Witteles, a computer scientist turned poker player who believed he was losing too much to the same person. "It seemed like he was giving his money away. Except the only thing was, he wasn't losing. He was playing in a style that was sure to lose, but he was killing the game day after day," Witteles, who played a key detective role in the scandal, remembers.

Michael Josem, a player and a computer security expert, plotted the odds of such consistent success. "We did the mathematical analysis to find that they were winning at about 15 standard deviations above the meanapproximately equivalent to winning a one-in-a-million jackpot six consecutive times."

It is known that Mike Sexton, Greg Raymer and Linda Johnson were also interviewed by the producers.

The cheating, which netted the cheaters more than $20 million, claims the Sixty Minutes publicity material, occurred on two of the Internet's most popular sites, Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet.

"The two sites operate out of a shopping mall in Costa Rica and run their games on computer servers housed on an Indian reservation outside of Montreal," the material informs viewers. "They are licensed by a Mohawk tribe that has no background in casino gambling, a tribe that previously made the majority of its money selling tax-free tobacco. Though such gambling is illegal in both Canada and the U.S., the betting laws in those countries have no jurisdiction on the sovereign reservation."

Headlined "How Online Gamblers Unmasked Cheaters," the program is sure to attract a wide viewership among online gamblers, who have followed developments in the scandal on message boards and information websites over the past year or more.
 
BATTENING DOWN THE HATCHES (Update)

Tokwiro briefs employees on Sixty Minutes program

Paul Leggett, the COO of Tokwiro Enterprises, was busy midweek briefing employees on the upcoming Sixty Minutes television expose of the Absolute Poker and UltimateBet scandals and the online poker industry in general (see previous InfoPowa report)

In a memo to employees, Leggett did not sound optimistic, writing that he had "every reason to believe that the 60 Minutes producers are intent on portraying the online poker industry and our companies in a negative light, and we do not expect that the program will be either fair or balanced."

Leggett is referring to the upcoming screening Sunday (November 30th) edition of the Sixty Minutes program, the result of a four month collaborative investigation by top producers and investigative reporters at the Washington Post and CBS's Sixty Minutes team. The program is expected to examine the scandals and how players were treated in detail, and apparently interviews a number of poker personalities involved in the affair.

Tokwiro representatives will not be among those appearing on camera, however. Leggett's memo says that although the company cooperated in responding to requests for information, a high level decision had been made not to be interviewed.

"Because of 60 Minutes apparent bias against Tokwiro and online poker, we have decided not to appear on camera," Leggett advises in his memo. "We have, however, had many conversations with the programs producers. We provided them with extensive background materials and documents, and we answered questions on-the-record, but off-camera. Despite all this, it is not likely that our views will be properly represented.

"Therefore, it is important that all of our staff know the following facts about our company:

* Tokwiro Enterprises, ENRG, is the full and sole owner of both Absolute Poker and UltimateBet. Joseph Tokwiro Norton is the full and sole owner of Tokwiro Enterprises.

* Incidents of cheating at both Absolute Poker and UltimateBet were fully reported and investigated by Tokwiro, by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission, and by third parties engaged by Tokwiro and the KGC.

* As soon as Joe Norton realized that cheating had occurred, he took immediate and appropriate actions.

* The KGCs investigators have acknowledged that Tokwiro, as a corporate entity, was not involved in and did not benefit from the cheating.

* The date range, financial extent, and methods used in the cheating are now known and understood.

* Tokwiro agreed not to prosecute the perpetrator in the Absolute Poker cheating, and to protect that individuals identity, because this was the only way to ensure that the ability to cheat was fully discovered and disabled. Because of this decision, AP could continue operating and begin to reimburse affected players as quickly as possible.

* Tokwiro has no interest in protecting or shielding the cheater in the UltimateBet incident in any way. We vigorously pursued the Companys legal options in this case, and won a $15 million settlement from the previous owners. The alleged cheater, who was named in the September 2008 KGC statement, has never been an employee of Tokwiro; nor has he been an employee of AP or UB since our purchase of these companies.

* The perpetrators in the Absolute Poker and UltimateBet incidents were different individuals who were not working in concert, and who used completely different methods to cheat.

* We have now completed all reimbursements to affected players. Everyone, who was a victim of these schemes, has now been made whole. We have paid out millions of dollars to customers who were cheated.

* We should also be mindful of the fact that we have taken a series of actions that are designed to ensure that this kind of cheating can never again happen on our sites. You are well aware, I am sure, of many of these, but 60 Minutes may very well ignore them in its program."

Leggett goes on to itemize the Tokwiro initiatives that have flowed from the scandals, writing:

"Joe Norton completely restructured the management team as soon he became aware that cheating had occurred on the AP site. The new team brought in a Compliance Officer and two Security Managers, and it established risk assessment procedures and ongoing internal audits."

Other moves included the development of a new Security Centre that incorporates gaming statistics, new security software, and human analysis and oversight to catch and prevent potential cheating. UB and AP have been moved to a common software platform, Cereus, which Leggett claims will facilitate monitoring of the system and tracking of any suspicious activities.

"We have also established a new, specialized Poker Security Department, in addition to the existing general security department, and hired outside gaming industry analysts to do a full audit of all software code and internal practices, and to make recommendations about best practices," he continues. "We instituted a Whistleblower Policy to formally protect Tokwiro employees and contractors who report any suspicion of cheating. We developed a Code of Ethics that formally prohibits any employee or contractor for any Tokwiro business from playing for money on any Tokwiro site.

"We discontinued the policy of greenlighting VIP Pro players at cashout, and we have forbidden account name changes except under very specific circumstances (such as abuse in a chat room).

"Because of the actions we have taken, Absolute Poker and UltimateBet are now two of the safest places to play poker online, and we are committed to keeping them that way. We believe that our loyal customer base will understand this, even if 60 Minutes does not.

"Regardless of how the 60 Minutes producers may choose to slant their show, we at Tokwiro are confident that we have acted with diligence and transparency in addressing these crises, and we will continue to do so," Leggett claims, directing employees to a YouTube corporate interview produced by Tokwiro in which he answered questions about the company and its operations, and to his personal UltimateBet blog.

Leggett concludes by acknowledging the tough time the company has endured and thanks employees for their support.

"This last year has been a difficult one for our Company," he writes. "We both our customers and our employees have been the victims of not one, but two, sophisticated fraud schemes that have cost us millions of dollars and have tarnished the hard-earned reputations of our stellar brands. Joe and I want to thank each and every one of you, our valued employees, for your commitment, trust and confidence. Because of you, I firmly believe that we have emerged from these trials as a stronger, more focused and more secure company than ever, ready to provide an unequaled poker experience to our thousands of loyal customers."

News of the Leggett memo broke at around the same time as the mainstream Canadian newspaper the Toronto Sun published yet another summary of the UB and AP debacles in advance of the Sixty Minutes program at
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.
 
About time these criminals were exposed to the harsh light of the mass media. It will be fun to watch them scatter like cockroaches when the light comes on.

I thought this might be worth pointing out.
Tokwiro agreed not to prosecute the perpetrator in the Absolute Poker cheating, and to protect that individuals identity, because this was the only way to ensure that the ability to cheat was fully discovered and disabled.
Click to expand...
A new and interesting piece of information...

Ahh... What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

The problem is good old Crooked Poker Joe, has given a really really bad name to the entire industry and 60 minutes is going to use that to try to put the lights out on the entire US online poker business.

After the poker playing public has been informed by 60 minutes of how bad they have been ripped off by these criminals, all we can hope is that the public outcry is for regulation instead of more the same stupid policies of Prohibition (Prohibition has never worked for anything... ever).

Suggestion for the Meister or his minions.... You might want to add UB/Absolutes "NEW" business name "Cereus" to this thread title.
 
I personally believe there are many non-disclosures and not a little deliberate misinformation going on at this group.

I have difficulty believing that Joe Tokwiro Norton, an ex Grand Chief of the Mohawks , is the only "owner" here and there are other suspicious happenings that have not been adequately explained.

Hopefully the Sixty Minutes program will expose some of these - Tokwiro's management certainly sounds nervous about what may be about to come out in the wash.
 
* We have now completed all reimbursements to affected players. Everyone, who was a victim of these schemes, has now been made whole. We have paid out millions of dollars to customers who were cheated.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

They can't possibly have done both. Countless original props including myself have shady sessions with named players from years ago but AP has refused to even consider it went on years before this but w/e.

Although it looks like lots of props got screwed I know of people who got unexpected refunds or refunds that were bigger than expected. If they really are on the up and up, and I'm starting to believe they are trying, then I can't imagine how hard this was to figure out who was owed what.
 
Tokwiro agreed not to prosecute the perpetrator in the Absolute Poker cheating, and to protect that individuals identity, because this was the only way to ensure that the ability to cheat was fully discovered and disabled. Because of this decision, AP could continue operating and begin to reimburse affected players as quickly as possible.
Click to expand...

I think they're blowing smoke... a lot of words that don't mean doodoo to me. Maybe the turkey and dressing has caused my brain cells to shut down. LOL

Why protect the 'individual' (I think there were more than one responsible)? I don't understand.

I also think that more than one 'individual' was responsible for the UB scam, too.

At any rate, I'm quite interested in seeing what 60 Minutes does with this.
 
It would be really great if one - or more - of our Casinomeister members in the United States could watch the Sixty Minutes program on Sunday and then as soon as possible thereafter post or start a discussion thread giving their opinion/s on it.

That would be a refreshing change from media coverage - a real player's perception of how well the program covered this dubious milestone in the industry's history and what came out in the wash.
 
jetset said:
It would be really great if one - or more - of our Casinomeister members in the United States could watch the Sixty Minutes program on Sunday and then as soon as possible thereafter post or start a discussion thread giving their opinion/s on it.

That would be a refreshing change from media coverage - a real player's perception of how well the program covered this dubious milestone in the industry's history and what came out in the wash.
Click to expand...

I will do my best. For those wanting to watch this there is no way it will be on at 7pm ET though. Every market in the U.S. except for San Diego (and they don't get 60 Minutes after football anyway cause of their time zone) gets a late NFL game on CBS that starts at 4:15pm ET. That will make this more of a 7:30pm ET or so start for 60 Minutes as they will almost certainly not start it until all late games are finished.
 
Yeah - I bridled at that too. The preview publicity from Sixty Minutes makes the same sweeping and erroneous statement.

There's neen a lot of critical comment on the Sixty Minutes advance blurb already.

Shows you how well the enforcement agencies have misinformed the media...and probably the public at large, too.:eek2:
 
Well it's news to me - I was under the impression the software came from Excapsa when Jim Ryan was still running that company.

Certainly Excapsa has accepted responsibility for the flaws by coughing up $15 million last month.

So which Korean developer was it?
 
When I propped for them they bought their software company in Korea. It was probably 2003 or maybe early 2004. The joke was why would they want to buy a company that put out such a bad product because the original product was one of the worst things ever to hit online poker. I guess later we found out why.
 
ANOTHER ULTIMATEBET INVESTIGATION

Poker ace had losing hand....but won!

Another controversy at online poker website UltimateBet.com surfaced over the weekend, resulting in Hand #1162170993 becoming a much discussed topic on the respected poker forum 2+2, where the details of the hand were posted. In essence, it appeared that although poker ace Phil Hellmuth mucked his hand, he was still awarded a $5 599 pot.

The trouble started early Saturday morning when international poker pro was engaged in a tense game with a player using the nick "Doubleballer." Despite having the weaker hand, Hellmuth was awarded the pot on completion of betting, triggering a complaint to management. UltimateBet officials, no doubt sensitised by the site's past cheating scandal, were quick to acknowledge that there was a problem, and promised an immediate and thorough investigation.

With no hard information yet available, the speculation is that the incorrect decision may have been the result of a technical glitch in the newly upgraded Cereus poker network software (see previous InfoPowa report) UltimateBet and its sister Absolute Poker are the main operational components of the newly launched network.

Paul Leggett, the COO of Absolute and UltimateBet owner Tokwiro Enterprises reacted quickly, too, writing on his blog: Earlier today we learned about a poker hand where our system paid out the losing player instead of the correct winning hand. We are investigating this software malfunction as our absolute top priority. This is the first incident of this kind we have encountered. He went on to advise that that the system and all relevant application logs were being examined in an attempt to track the fault down.

Exchanges between "Doubleballer" and Hellmuth, who promotes UltimateBet, later revealed that the site planned to credit the former with half the value of the pot - $2 300. There was no further information available when InfoPowa went to press this morning.
 
jetset said:
ANOTHER ULTIMATEBET INVESTIGATION

Poker ace had losing hand....but won!

Another controversy at online poker website UltimateBet.com surfaced over the weekend, resulting in Hand #1162170993 becoming a much discussed topic on the respected poker forum 2+2, where the details of the hand were posted. In essence, it appeared that although poker ace Phil Hellmuth mucked his hand, he was still awarded a $5 599 pot.

The trouble started early Saturday morning when international poker pro was engaged in a tense game with a player using the nick "Doubleballer." Despite having the weaker hand, Hellmuth was awarded the pot on completion of betting, triggering a complaint to management. UltimateBet officials, no doubt sensitised by the site's past cheating scandal, were quick to acknowledge that there was a problem, and promised an immediate and thorough investigation.

With no hard information yet available, the speculation is that the incorrect decision may have been the result of a technical glitch in the newly upgraded Cereus poker network software (see previous InfoPowa report) UltimateBet and its sister Absolute Poker are the main operational components of the newly launched network.

Paul Leggett, the COO of Absolute and UltimateBet owner Tokwiro Enterprises reacted quickly, too, writing on his blog: Earlier today we learned about a poker hand where our system paid out the losing player instead of the correct winning hand. We are investigating this software malfunction as our absolute top priority. This is the first incident of this kind we have encountered. He went on to advise that that the system and all relevant application logs were being examined in an attempt to track the fault down.

Exchanges between "Doubleballer" and Hellmuth, who promotes UltimateBet, later revealed that the site planned to credit the former with half the value of the pot - $2 300. There was no further information available when InfoPowa went to press this morning.
Click to expand...

I'd like to know why they were only going to credit him with half when he clearly won it...this is the very reason that I quit playing online poker almost two years ago...hell you can't trust any of these online poker sites...:rolleyes:
 
And another from that thread. Player waiting for big blind is awarded part of the pot and it appears to be confirmed by a replayer at Tableratings.com.

***** Hand History for Game 1165551082 *****
$100.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, December 22, 01:55:25 ET 2008
Table MANOR AVE (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 5: ZERO TO HERO ( $263.55 USD )
Seat 1: MIKEP03 ( $40.00 USD )
Seat 2: DIRKY83 ( $230.36 USD )
Seat 3: NOGR ( $30.70 USD )
Seat 4: SPLITYAWIG ( $351.20 USD )
DIRKY83 posts small blind [$0.50 USD].
NOGR posts big blind [$1.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ZERO TO HERO [ 8d 8s ]
SPLITYAWIG folds
ZERO TO HERO raises [$3.50 USD]
DIRKY83 folds
NOGR folds
ZERO TO HERO wins $2.50 USD from main pot
MIKEP03 wins $1.25 USD from main pot
ZERO TO HERO wins $1.25 USD from main pot

(MIKEP03 just sat down and was waiting to post the BB in case that's not clear)
 
Call me a idiot but I still play the blackjack at AP and UB....I absolutely love it! :thumbsup: and have made withdraw's NUMEROUS times year after year with 0 problems. I will never touch the poker room however..:what: but I do see around 50k people on UB and 25k on AP so a lot of people still trust them..
 
Keyser said:
Ditto. Why only half?
Click to expand...

Perhaps it was simply a holding move - I believe he has now been paid the whole amount.

These further software glitches surfacing are obviously a hammer blow to Cereus as well as AB and UB, and the best you can say about the situation is that Tokwiro seems to have learned the hard way that a knee-jerk denial that anything is wrong is the worst way to go.

Hopefully we'll see something soon from COO Paul Leggett, who always has a lot to say when he's trying to limit damage to these apparently screwed up operations.
 
Last edited:
Official interim statement from Paul Leggett, COO of Tokwiro, advises as follows:

QUOTE:

On Saturday, December 20, 2008, two players DOUBLEBALLER and PHILHELLMUTH were playing heads up at a 200/400 table on UltimateBet.com.

DOUBLEBALLER won hand #1162170993. The software malfunctioned and awarded the losing player PHILHELLMUTH the pot, instead of the actual winner DOUBLEBALLER.

After learning of the incident, we credited the player the correct prize to his account. We then began an investigation into the malfunction. We have now completed our preliminary investigation into the software malfunction regarding an incorrect payout in hand #1162170993 on the CEREUS Poker Network.

We have concluded that the malfunction occurred because the winning player disconnected from the table at the precise millisecond when the software was awarding the pot, in conjunction with the "player's state" data being cleared from the memory cache.

There is a prevention system in place designed to protect hand results against disconnections. However, after conducting an extensive source code analysis, we found logic in our code that we have enhanced to further ensure this malfunction cannot reoccur.

UNQUOTE

A KGC spokesman has confirmed that the Commission is also investigating, and yesterday took possession of all relevant game and player data, customer service logs, chat logs and all other associated data.

Phil Hellmuth has also made a statement reiterating his trust in UB, which he promotes and commenting that suggestions that he was part of an alleging cheating manouevre are malicious and unfounded.

No comment was made on the other reports of glitches which surfaced in the wake of the Hellmuth-Doubleballer incident.
 

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