Ukraine Mess

[mack341]

It's unclear what exactly they mean by "Europe's defense costs".

Ask Grok on X, it gives pretty decent info based on web pages and posts on X.

Yeah that's true, he must surely run things through Grok and that presumably uses information on the internet to check things.

The cold war had an 'end' and then Russia came in from the cold as it were, I think there was a lot more money spent by the European countries and the US during the cold war than now.

So the western leaders, including Starmer, that want to paint Putin and Russia as an active threat to the territory of the rest of Europe, rather than the whole thing was a more confined conflict between neighbouring countries in the east, will have to stump up a lot more money to match the words, when push comes to shove they won't be able to afford it.

The wealthy, successful corporations will not pay more tax just to fund bigger standing armies sitting there, so where's the money going to come from.

 

[geordiecolin]

They're squashing Zelensky. I would say that at the moment no European official would care to find the details about such things, and even if it's true - money accounts and their real owners would be made undiscoverable. But the US has good reason to send the FBI to investigate where their money went.

Ukraines corruption has long been one reason that they keep getting rejected from joining the EU. They probably taught Greece all they know. It is such a shame because they are/could be the bread basket of Europe as well as their natural resources.
My guess is that their territory holding those natural resources will be a key sticking point during negotiations?

 

[lockinlove]

Donald Trump trying to extort Ukraine during a time like this is absolutely wild. He has given them an ultimatium give me 500 billion or die.

Marco Rubio stated Ukraine got just under 200 billion. Z says 75 billion after shipping fees and mark up on all the weapons. So lets meet in the middle and say 100 billion. Trump sent his treasury to Ukraine and said they want 500 billion in minerals or else we cut you off. Z refused and the treasury returned to Trump and told him. Trump flipped out and did a few interview insulting him.

Should USA get money back? In my opinion not at all considering they were a large reason for starting and continuing this war. They used Ukraine and their soldiers to try and weaken Russia.

If anything the USA gets 100 billion. Why does Trump think its a good time to be a crooked business man and demand 500 billion? What happened to being so concerned about how many people are dying like he keeps repeating? Now all of the sudden he is more than happy to fund it as long as he gets paid for it?

 

[Guntis]

It's all started when Tump asked for 500b through mineral digging. Zelensky said "yes" and then switched to "no".

Fair would be to stop the war, give the US money back (say 100b in cash), keep the minerals and let Europeans to dig them out instead.

 

[lockinlove]

Trump suggest a mineral deal, the amount wasnt talked about. Maybe Trump is claiming that but its not true. I watched an interview where Z said pretty clearly that 500 billion is not a reasonable request.

I think what would be fair is Ukraine not repay any of the 100billion since that was never agreed upon on either side and from here on they pay their own way or make deals. Since Trump wasnt the one who help start and continue this war (Biden and Obama did), its not really fair the USA pay for it anymore. Z has to take some blame here too.

 

[geordiecolin]

AI robot wars!

 

[Guntis]

Trump suggest a mineral deal, the amount wasnt talked about. Maybe Trump is claiming that but its not true. I watched an interview where Z said pretty clearly that 500 billion is not a reasonable request.

I think what would be fair is Ukraine not repay any of the 100billion since that was never agreed upon on either side and from here on they pay their own way or make deals. Since Trump wasnt the one who help start and continue this war (Biden and Obama did), its not really fair the USA pay for it anymore. Z has to take some blame here too.

It would mean that Zelensky just used them all if they don’t pay anything back. Why would a country like the US spend billions on Ukraine if it doesn’t see a benefit - not just financial, but also political? I think the US with this new government won’t let this go easily.

 

[mack341]

The thing is the minerals are mostly under russian boots afaik, so that adds another dimension to Zelensky signing a deal for their use as collateral.

Iirc Lindsey Graham brought up the subject of rare earth minerals lying under Ukrainian land in the east, but his idea was to keep funding the Ukraine war effort to push Russia off this land.

I don't know how long sales of minerals worth $500 billion would take on the open market, how long it would also take to mine that amount. If 10 years then perhaps it's part of a plan to keep war from reigniting, as there'll be a 3 way business agreement in place with terms and conditions.

 

[lockinlove]

It would mean that Zelensky just used them all if they don’t pay anything back. Why would a country like the US spend billions on Ukraine if it doesn’t see a benefit - not just financial, but also political? I think the US with this new government won’t let this go easily.

You have to remember what the US did in 2013, 2014 and then again in 2020 and 2022. US is probably the majority to blame for this war and seems to have encouraged Z or atleast pushed him heavily in his decision making process.

Z shouldnt go free from his decision and I dont think he has with the loss of 700 million lives and his country half destroyed.

Trump should say ya because Biden and Obama are the idiots, I will let you off on 100b. Anything else from here on out, we want to be paid for. Will Trump do that? Most likely not.

 

[lockinlove]

The thing is the minerals are mostly under russian boots afaik, so that adds another dimension to Zelensky signing a deal for their use as collateral.

Iirc Lindsey Graham brought up the subject of rare earth minerals lying under Ukrainian land in the east, but his idea was to keep funding the Ukraine war effort to push Russia off this land.

I don't know how long sales of minerals worth $500 billion would take on the open market, how long it would also take to mine that amount. If 10 years then perhaps it's part of a plan to keep war from reigniting, as there'll be a 3 way business agreement in place with terms and conditions.

Yeah it would likely take many many years to get all of that out and sorted.

Now they have an embolded Putin who has taken over quite a bit of land, loss of life and probably feels entitled to that land. So what was this war for? If Z signed the deals, the regions would be neutral and no NATO membership.

Now? No NATO, loss of those lands, loss of hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians and a pissed off Putin on your doorstep

Are children making these decisions or what?

 

[Guntis]

AI robot wars!

Grok is a crazily good tool, there is no Google needed now.



Grok mentions even me, lol

 

[geordiecolin]

Grok is a crazily good tool, there is no Google needed now.



Grok mentions even me, lol

I have just tried Grok for the first time and its insane but I avoided typing in Geordiecolin/Casinomeister because I am so shy

 

[Guntis]

You have to remember what the US did in 2013, 2014 and then again in 2020 and 2022. US is probably the majority to blame for this war and seems to have encouraged Z or atleast pushed him heavily in his decision making process.

Z shouldnt go free from his decision and I dont think he has with the loss of 700 million lives and his country half destroyed.

Trump should say ya because Biden and Obama are the idiots, I will let you off on 100b. Anything else from here on out, we want to be paid for. Will Trump do that? Most likely not.

Yeah it doesn't seem like Trump would do that, especially now. This is a new government there now, and by the looks of it, he just really pissed them off. They say that Zelensky, instead of saying thank you for all their help, goes out and complains about what the US isn't doing or what Ukraine isn't getting.

Zelensky told them that he wanted to make the deal happen and that it all makes sense, and it just neededs Kyiv’s parliament approval.

But...

“I read two days later that Zelensky is out there saying, ‘I rejected the deal. I told him, “No way,” that we’re not doing that.’ That’s not what happened in that meeting,” - Rubio says in this video:

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The Americans likely missed Lavrov's views, lol..

 

[TheAddict]

According to unverified sources there are currently some "behind closed doors" discussions underway where a deal may be made that includes up to 50 spins on starburst, if the wagering turnover amount can been agreed upon.

 

[geordiecolin]

According to unverified sources there are currently some "behind closed doors" discussions underway where a deal may be made that includes up to 50 spins on starburst, if the wagering turnover amount can been agreed upon.

Offer Zelensky 10 lines and the deal is done

 

[Guntis]

ffs lol...

 

[lockinlove]

Yeah it doesn't seem like Trump would do that, especially now. This is a new government there now, and by the looks of it, he just really pissed them off. They say that Zelensky, instead of saying thank you for all their help, goes out and complains about what the US isn't doing or what Ukraine isn't getting.

Zelensky told them that he wanted to make the deal happen and that it all makes sense, and it just neededs Kyiv’s parliament approval.

But...

“I read two days later that Zelensky is out there saying, ‘I rejected the deal. I told him, “No way,” that we’re not doing that.’ That’s not what happened in that meeting,” - Rubio says in this video:

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The Americans likely missed Lavrov's views, lol..

Just saw that Trump offered him 50 billion in aid for 100 billion in return. 100% mark up to a country who's people are being killed and on the verge is really crazy to me. Plus out of that 50 billion, the USA companies would already make money of the markup and wages of the weapons/employees.

However, if it was a deal like look we give you 50b, you give us 100b in return and we call it all equal.. then I would be ok with that.

Zelensky needs to figure out a way to end this war. Not sure how and it wont be easy but now that USA has become a grifter out of this all, time to end it.

 

[geordiecolin]

Just saw that Trump offered him 50 billion in aid for 100 billion in return. 100% mark up to a country who's people are being killed and on the verge is really crazy to me. Plus out of that 50 billion, the USA companies would already make money of the markup and wages of the weapons/employees.

However, if it was a deal like look we give you 50b, you give us 100b in return and we call it all equal.. then I would be ok with that.

Zelensky needs to figure out a way to end this war. Not sure how and it wont be easy but now that USA has become a grifter out of this all, time to end it.

View attachment 206208

Have you any proof of that offer?

 

[lockinlove]

Trump is a true loser lol. There is zero chance Zelensky would lie about this. Trying to extort Ukraine during invasion..someone get this guy some meds

 

[Guntis]

We can expect tomorrow's newspaper titles to be 'A grant is not a debt'.

 

[lockinlove]

I think its more likely that the headline reads "Trump decides to fund North Korean nuclear program"

 

[geordiecolin]

Trump is a true loser lol. There is zero chance Zelensky would lie about this. Trying to extort Ukraine during invasion..someone get this guy some meds

Are you being a bit too emotional about the facts or the processes that are going on?

 

[lockinlove]

Are you being a bit too emotional about the facts or the processes that are going on?

Says the guy who runs around the forum in a bright red MAGA hat.

Settle down George.

 

[geordiecolin]

There was bothing from America in helping Liara who was an American journalist out of prison or about his death.

 

[geordiecolin]

Says the guy who runs around the forum in a bright red MAGA hat.

Settle down George.

I never have or ever would don such a hat. But you can address me any way you like,darling.
But Colin or Col will do

 

[lockinlove]

I never have or ever would don such a hat. But you can address me any way you like,darling.
But Colin or Col will do

Keep calling me darling and it will get a whole lot worse than just George

 

[geordiecolin]

Keep calling me darling and it will get a whole lot worse than just George

Sorry hinnie,I was just getting my own back for you keep calling me George. I will not repeat it Lock
But I think that we agree that simply supporting the left or right is a false dichotomy

 

[geordiecolin]

Merkle admits that the Minsk agreement in 2014 was only signed in order to buy time for the Ukraine to arm and strengthen itself.

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[Guntis]

This is exactly what i said recently, that for Ukraine it's best to stick with the EU because they can significantly contribute to the EU with the help from the EU.

There is too much of that ChatGPT-like fluff and things like "without us you're essentially f*ucked," but overall it's worth listening.

 

[lockinlove]

Sorry hinnie,I was just getting my own back for you keep calling me George. I will not repeat it Lock
But I think that we agree that simply supporting the left or right is a false dichotomy

Its meant as a joke since that rep or whoever called you George

 

[lockinlove]

Merkle admits that the Minsk agreement in 2014 was only signed in order to buy time for the Ukraine to arm and strengthen itself.

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Yup. No wonder Russia is so pissed. Also, Merkle is an idiot. Trump warned her about relying on Russia for energy. She ignored it and now look. She also let in millions of psycopath immigrants who raped and killed many Germans. She is probably one of the worst world leaders in history. Has to be top 10 all time.

 

[Guntis]

He doesn't let the minerals go lol..



It would've been better if European morons had helped to stop the war and kept that 3.5 billion that is going to Ukraine now and jumped into titanium mines themselves until it's not too late.

 

[lockinlove]

He doesn't let the minerals go lol..



It would've been better if European morons had helped to stop the war and kept that 3.5 billion that is going to Ukraine now and jumped into titanium mines themselves until it's not too late.

lol ya

I also saw Macron fact check him to his face and Trump looked super awkward like that of a liar being embarrassed.

I watched some of your video you posted. Seems like the EU is coming around. I could be wrong I dont really follow the EU too closely but thats what it sounds like.

Ukraine and Europe does not want America anywhere near their continent and I think they are starting to realize this. If they were smart they would get rid of NATO and do their own thing/treaties. The US causes all the wars and issues anyways and then the EU just has to pay for it.

I saw the USA sided with Russia, China and North Korea today too. I think the world should listen when the US is basically telling us who they are. A terrorist dictatorship who masks themselves as a democracy.

 

[Guntis]

lol ya

I also saw Macron fact check him to his face and Trump looked super awkward like that of a liar being embarrassed.

I watched some of your video you posted. Seems like the EU is coming around. I could be wrong I dont really follow the EU too closely but thats what it sounds like.

Ukraine and Europe does not want America anywhere near their continent and I think they are starting to realize this. If they were smart they would get rid of NATO and do their own thing/treaties. The US causes all the wars and issues anyways and then the EU just has to pay for it.

I saw the USA sided with Russia, China and North Korea today too. I think the world should listen when the US is basically telling us who they are. A terrorist dictatorship who masks themselves as a democracy.

Europeans are in a tough spot with Russia now. When all this started, they didn't plan for the possibility that things could go in another direction. They just gathered together thinking Russia was like some kind of mammoth that they could just push off a cliff together and it would never come back. One thing i don't understant is who benefits from sending money to Ukraine.

Here is what Putin says:



Just seen on some sites that the EU has plans about Ukraine's minerals which, as i've mentioned, would benefit them both. But how are they going to deal with Trump in this case?

 

[geordiecolin]

Europeans are in a tough spot with Russia now. When all this started, they didn't plan for the possibility that things could go in another direction. They just gathered together thinking Russia was like some kind of mammoth that they could just push off a cliff together and it would never come back. One thing i don't understant is who benefits from sending money to Ukraine.

Here is what Putin says:



Just seen on some sites that the EU has plans about Ukraine's minerals which, as i've mentioned, would benefit them both. But how are they going to deal with Trump in this case?

It appears that Ukraine are now in a serious crisis where they do not have enough front line troups or men left to recruit. If true then how long before their army tells Zelensky they have had enough and give him an ultimatum?
It does not seem like Zelensky has many cards left to play.

 

[Guntis]

It appears that Ukraine are now in a serious crisis where they do not have enough front line troups or men left to recruit. If true then how long before their army tells Zelensky they have had enough and give him an ultimatum?
It does not seem like Zelensky has many cards left to play.

From what i've seen a minute ago on Independent, Zelensky is going to see Trump on Friday to sign the mineral deal. So likely all this will end soon.

 

[geordiecolin]

From what i've seen a minute ago on Independent, Zelensky is going to see Trump on Friday to sign the mineral deal. So likely all this will end soon.

Thats one election pledge looking like it will be fullfilled using buiness acumen as apposed to diplomacy alone.
Where would this leave Canada?

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Dear Canadians,Trump has just secured massive raw minerals deals with Russia & Ukraine for the US.No amount of money printing, winning hockey games, or "Buy Canadian" boycotting will get us out of this.I do not want my family to be in poverty because of socialist hubris.

 

[Guntis]

Who's up for the Trump Gold Card? It's coming out in 2 weeks and will cost $5 million.

 

[geordiecolin]

Who's up for the Trump Gold Card? It's coming out in 2 weeks and will cost $5 million.

Did he just say they could maybe sell a million gold cards at $5m a pop? Who is he kidding?

Meanwhile in Ukraine Zalensky's request for a resolution supporting his presidency was rejected,including by 34 members of his own party before it was passed after some pursuasion's where made.

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[Guntis]

Did he just say they could maybe sell a million gold cards at $5m a pop? Who is he kidding?

Meanwhile in Ukraine Zalensky's request for a resolution supporting his presidency was rejected,including by 34 members of his own party before it was passed after some pursuasion's where made.

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Yeah, he says it’ll bring in rich and successful people who’ll spend tons, pay taxes, and create jobs. They’re saying that it'll start in two weeks and could cash in trillions by selling these cards to cut the federal deficit. To me, it sounds like a good deal for them, and for anyone with deep pockets.

 

[Guntis]

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It would be "fun" for Zelensky if they (ever) elect Arestovich as Ukraine's president. Arestovich said that he would jail Zelensky for life.

 

[geordiecolin]

It would be "fun" for Zelensky if they (ever) elect Arestovich as Ukraine's president. Arestovich said that he would jail Zelensky for life.

Klitchko seemed to be in full support of Zalensky at the start of the conflict but I guess that times change.

I wonder what influence Trump and Putin have on who becomes next Pres? I would guess at Klitchko.

 

[lockinlove]

How do you guys feel about the EU? I dont know much about it. Trump just said the EU was formed to screw the US and he is tariffing them all 25%.

Im not an economist but the USA is about to get tariffed back by well over 30 countries at once. This will just rise prices on every single item. Im not getting the point of this.

 

[mulven]

How do you guys feel about the EU? I dont know much about it. Trump just said the EU was formed to screw the US and he is tariffing them all 25%.

Im not an economist but the USA is about to get tariffed back by well over 30 countries at once. This will just rise prices on every single item. Im not getting the point of this.

I voted to leave the UK and to remain in the EU. Pretty much sums it up. Love me some EU consumer protections innit.

 

[Guntis]

How do you guys feel about the EU? I dont know much about it. Trump just said the EU was formed to screw the US and he is tariffing them all 25%.

Im not an economist but the USA is about to get tariffed back by well over 30 countries at once. This will just rise prices on every single item. Im not getting the point of this.

It seems like the US just sees most of them pointless now. Recently, Poland's president waited at Trump's door for over an hour because he was busy with other things, and when he finally got in, they spoke for just 10 minutes.



Then, that woman from Estonia arrived for a scheduled meeting to see Rubio, and they canceled it when she was already in the US.

 

[geordiecolin]

How do you guys feel about the EU? I dont know much about it. Trump just said the EU was formed to screw the US and he is tariffing them all 25%.

Im not an economist but the USA is about to get tariffed back by well over 30 countries at once. This will just rise prices on every single item. Im not getting the point of this.

1. See the Brexit thread but ignore Chops comments

2. The shear ecstacy witnessed by brexitiers after winning the referendom was replaced very quickly by the feeling of coitus interuptus when they realised that we had a very weak half hearted government that where only too kean to be bullied by the EU into not really leaving.

3. They are a bunch of autocratic globalist dictators who are on the edge of ruin with most member states voters itching to tell them to feck off.

4. A good time for Murika to slap them around a bit then get what they want. Follow the UK's lead and be the 2nd to stick it up them.

5. Hope the scrap takes Trumps mind off ruining Canada

6. Hope that it all makes him look like an isolationist twat and he changes his ways

 

[lockinlove]

It seems like the US just sees most of them pointless now. Recently, Poland's president waited at Trump's door for over an hour because he was busy with other things, and when he finally got in, they spoke for just 10 minutes.



Then, that woman from Estonia arrived for a scheduled meeting to see Rubio, and they canceled it when she was already in the US.

Id like to see the reasoning behind that. Him just being an A@@hole or what?

 

[lockinlove]

1. See the Brexit thread but ignore Chops comments

2. The shear ecstacy witnessed by brexitiers after winning the referendom was replaced very quickly by the feeling of coitus interuptus when they realised that we had a very weak half hearted government that where only too kean to be bullied by the EU into not really leaving.

3. They are a bunch of autocratic globalist dictators who are on the edge of ruin with most member states voters itching to tell them to feck off.

4. A good time for Murika to slap them around a bit then get what they want. Follow the UK's lead and be the 2nd to stick it up them.

5. Hope the scrap takes Trumps mind off ruining Canada

6. Hope that it all makes him look like an isolationist twat and he changes his ways

Even if they stop bothering Canada the damage has been done.

Elon tweeted yesterday "Canada is not a real country". He deleted it fairly quick after I imagine his board messaged him and told him to remove it. You know, considering he sells millions of cars here and has a pending starlink contract. But We all saw his true colors.

I own a tesla and its an amazing car. It will be my last. Next time I will probably go with the Ford Mach-E

Tesla stock has dropped 30% in 1 month since him and Trump were elected. That is massive. He is running around alienating all his buyers and will lose a tonne of sales.

600 billion lost in 1 month..A pretty big portion of Canadians are boycotting American products here and canceling their vacations and selling their cottages and winter homes.

Will it affect America? Id like to think so.

I actually feel a bit uncomfortable driving my Tesla right now. A lot of people are really pissed off at those 2 and Im sure it wont be long before I get people commenting.

 

[TheAddict]

Random hunch but Trumps/Elons Canada comments and some of the other wtf bro crap Don has spewed lately makes me think it's a bit of the old "hey! look over here, not at what I'm doing over there!" .

 

[geordiecolin]

Even if they stop bothering Canada the damage has been done.

Elon tweeted yesterday "Canada is not a real country". He deleted it fairly quick after I imagine his board messaged him and told him to remove it. You know, considering he sells millions of cars here and has a pending starlink contract. But We all saw his true colors.

I own a tesla and its an amazing car. It will be my last. Next time I will probably go with the Ford Mach-E

Tesla stock has dropped 30% in 1 month since him and Trump were elected. That is massive. He is running around alienating all his buyers and will lose a tonne of sales.

600 billion lost in 1 month..A pretty big portion of Canadians are boycotting American products here and canceling their vacations and selling their cottages and winter homes.

Will it affect America? Id like to think so.

I actually feel a bit uncomfortable driving my Tesla right now. A lot of people are really pissed off at those 2 and Im sure it wont be long before I get people commenting.

I guess that Musk knows that most people have rejected the idea of buying EV's and is prepared to take the hit.
Maybe Trump and Musk are mocking Canada for its wokeness and misfiring symbolism? But Musk seems to change like the wind when it suits him. Didn't he not long ago state that AI was a real danger to humanity? Isn't the EV driven by woke idiology?

This is the sort of virtue signalling that gets folk rolling their eyes at Canada. FFS Russia was on our side and lost millions of men