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UIGEA new positive bill just passed

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In the last few minutes, the HR 6870 bill has been voted in.

This new bill HR 6870, which will be known as the Payment Systems Protection Act of 2008 blocks the US Treasury or Federal Reserve from legally enforcing any UIGEA regulation

To the extent as any such regulation pertains to wagering of the type that is prohibited under chapter 178 of title 28, United States Code (relating to professional and amateur sports protection).

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Sounds like US players could be on their way back. I wont hold my breath but this appears to be a mega development
 
In the last few minutes, the HR 6870 bill has been voted in.



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Sounds like US players could be on their way back. I wont hold my breath but this appears to be a mega development

The thing that concerns me though is the fact they did not mention the ever elusive DOJ...it only states that it blocks the US Treasury or Federal Reserve from legally enforcing any UIGEA regulation…it did not say or address the DOJ enforcing any UIGEA regulation or not...WHY ?? :mad:
 
The thing that concerns me though is the fact they did not mention the ever elusive DOJ...it only states that it blocks the US Treasury or Federal Reserve from legally enforcing any UIGEA regulationit did not say or address the DOJ enforcing any UIGEA regulation or not...WHY ?? :mad:

If the banks aren't doing anything illegal, then the DoJ doesn't have a leg to stand on :)
 
If the banks aren't doing anything illegal, then the DoJ doesn't have a leg to stand on :)

It's not the banks I am concerned about but the folks or the owners of the casinos that keep getting f**k*d with by the DOJ..:mad: remember it only states that it blocks the US Treasury or Federal Reserve from legally enforcing any UIGEA regulation…it did not say or address the DOJ enforcing any UIGEA regulation or not
 
Any step to abolish the dark cloud hanging over US gamblers is a step forward.

The US is a huge market of regular depositors. I would love to play at some of the casino's I see here but am prohibited from playing.

The ban affected me, but not much. I am neither high stakes or a big winner so little attention was paid to my transactions.

I see it benefitting poker the most.

Poker is on ESPN, its legit.

If you tried to ban the US atheletes from the olympics because our GOV wasn't getting the major cut it would be the same as banning our world class poker players from competition.
 
Every US citizen that feel we should have the right to gamble online needs to be involved in watching just WHO is trying to prevent it and like McCain said "Make them famous" and replace them.

Instead of our congress worrying about important stuff like our 401K's, savings, crooked CEO's/Investors/Banks, economy and our infrastructure THEY are wasting time and effort on laws to take away more of our rights and doing corporate welfare prettied up as a bail out!!!

The fact that they want to ban online gambling with their fake a$$ moral reasoning, which could bring in a bunch of TAX revenue to the USA and boost our economy is idiotic and totally irresponsible.

The DOJ is a joke that has failed us miserably IMO and needs to stop harrassing sportsbetting folks until we get the industry regulated.
 
Best damn news I've heard in quite a while.... :thumbsup:

It is only a baby step in the right direction.... But it is in the right direction.

We still have to go to the floor for a full vote and then if passed by the full House it will go on to the Senate... and then the president. SO contact your elected officials and tell them how you feel... It does make a difference!

I think after what has been going on the last couple of days I hope those assholes in Washington are starting to get the fact that their meddling in our personal and PRIVATE business causes nothing but trouble...

I think we should have a Constitutional Amendment where we hire a very large man to publicly paddle (with a large ands scary looking wooden paddle like they used to use in Schools) any elected politician that gets the bright idea to legislate morals and behavior.... Bend over and grab your ankles Ms. Speaker, you need an attitude adjustment...
 
Update on UIGEA regulations

Casinomeister News

U.S. OFFICIALS RACE TO FINALISE UIGEA REGS (Update)

With the Republican Bush administration on the way out, Treasury officials race to avoid a midnight drop

Achieving wide coverage across the stock markets and business sites as the week ended was a Dow Jones business report that the controversial regulations supporting the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act have been finalised. The news comes after widespread political and financial services criticism that the initial draft of the regulations lacked practicality and precision.

The UIGEA prohibits financial transactions with 'illegal' online gambling companies, placing the burden of enforcement on the US financial services industry.

According to the Dow Jones report, the US Treasury is trying to push the regulations through after months of difficult drafting in the hope of finalising the issue before the Bush administration leaves office at the end of the year.

The Treasury Department forwarded the final regulations to the Office of Management and Budget on October 21, a necessary step towards implementation. The report describes the move as standard practice for outgoing administrations to finalise controversial regulations before leaving office, a practice known as a midnight drop.

The UIGEA law as drafted by Congress in late 2006 includes exemptions for horse race betting, interstate online lotteries and betting on fantasy sports, and was passed as a last-minute attachment to an unrelated but essential security bill in the final hours of the Republican controlled Congress at the time.

Since then the law has been responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars in losses to major listed companies forced to pull out of the US market, and has been the subject of thousands of column inches of media criticism, Congressional hearings, law suits, legislative proposals seeking to overturn or modify its provisions and general widespread criticism from a diversity of interested parties.

Federal Reserve managers have been among the many who have expressed reservations about the implementation of the Act and the difficulties of drafting effective regulations to support it.

The Dow Jones report notes that draft rules published by the Treasury in October 2007 don't define what would be considered an illegal transaction, and there has been much confusion as to what types of online gambling would be rendered illegal.

Banks have warned they may block all online gambling transactions rather than try to determine which ones are illegal. An official from the Federal Reserve testified before Congress in April that the draft regulations created considerable uncertainty.

One organisation vehemently opposed to pushing the regulations through in this manner is the Poker Players Alliance. Executive Director John Pappas told Dow Jones: "It's really remarkable that this administration would try to push this out given the burden it would place on financial institutions at this time of financial crisis."

Pappas is meeting Friday with officials from the Office of Management and Budget, whose job it is to formally implement the regulations, in a last ditch effort to prevent them from being put on the books.He wants officials to wait until President-elect Barack Obama's administration takes office in January to allow for a thorough review of the potential impact of the rules.

A Treasury spokeswoman did not return phone calls seeking comment by Dow Jones.
 
Absolutely....but then this imo typifies the arrogant, bull-headed attitude of government officials allowed to run rampant under the Bush administration for the past 8 years.

This has been an extremely hot potato handed to them by an inadequately focused Congress that did not have an opportunity to even read the bill, let alone properly consider all of its implications.

I think Treasury et al will just be happy to get rid of the damned thing and let the financial institutions who are required to enforce it deal with the hangovers.

This really sucks in my opinion.
 
This is bullshit. As if our banks weren't in enough trouble already. What are they trying to do, pave the way for another $850B bailout? There's no friggin way they can keep a leash on who's sending who money and where it's going, on top of this madhouse that's already going on. :mad:

Even if Bush does sign this into law, there's going to be so much criticism over it, I think Obama will have no choice to repeal it.
 
I thought they might try to do this-- even though the UIGEA is an illogical piece of crap, and the banks surely need to manage where I spend my money (like they took care of themselves so damn well)... :rolleyes: I'm so sick of all this protectionist, self righteous, anti-online gambling crap I could just ... :barf:

Thanks for the nauseating news, Jetset. ;)
 
CNET News published an interesting guest article on this on October 31st:

THE MIDNIGHT REGULATION RUSH IN ON!

Republican elder statesman underlines the dangers of rushed UIGEA regulations

CNet News published a guest column at the end of October 2008 which is of considerable interest to the online gambling industry. Authored by Republican economist and elder statesman Dick Armey of the FreedomWorks advocacy group, it presents a chilling picture of government overreach and the consequences to Net Neutrality.

In the article, titled "The Midnight Regulation Rush is On!", Armey alerts readers to the actions of US Treasury officials in "quietly pushing through new rules that potentially will have devastating consequences for privacy and e-commerce.

"It's an understatement to say the Internet has done more to shape society over the last 10 years than any other technological innovation, transforming communications, business, and entertainment. The benefits generated by the technological revolution easily parallel those of the earlier industrial revolution. What's important is that this explosion in growth occurred in an era relatively free of government interference. Unfortunately, that may not remain the case," Armey writes, cautioning that the Treasury Department should be cautious in its Internet gambling rules.

Setting the scene, he goes on to opine that regulatory incursions onto the Internet are becoming more frequent, threatening the open dynamic that has generated so much for consumers.

"Without vigilance, we face the prospect of turning the Internet into something akin to an electronic version of the Post Office rather than the engine of growth it has become," he says.

"This can be seen in Congress' attempt to eliminate unlawful Internet gambling. Not only does the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 raise serious questions about privacy, but its vague definitions and poorly defined goals force banks and payment centers into a tight position.

"[The financial institutions] are now required to serve as an arm of the government, monitoring private Internet transactions, and blocking those that are "illegal," Armey writes.

"The problem is that the legislation never defined "unlawful Internet gambling," leaving banks and payment centers to sort out that thorny issue for themselves. This generates a great deal of confusion, leaving consumers and Internet users facing the real prospect of perfectly legal activities being blocked simply due to uncertainty and caution on the part of banks and payment centers. For those processing these transactions, the ambiguity is compounded by compliance costs and the paperwork burden."

Despite these worrying concerns surrounding the legislation, the Treasury Department is drafting a final rule it hopes to release in November to put the program in motion, Armey informs. This was confirmed last week by the news that Treasury officials had submitted the UIGEA regulations to the government's Office of Management and Budget for a 60 day review prior to implementation.

But some in Congress are well aware of the burdens and complexities associated with this vague rule, he says, pointing to the House Financial Services Committee legislation introduced by Democrat Rep. Barney Frank that offers a simple solution.

Armey feels that Franks's Payments System Protection Act makes clear that the law can be enforced against sports betting, which the courts already have defined as illegal. But it also requires regulators to define exactly what "unlawful Internet gambling" is prior to issuing broader regulations. This would substantially reduce the uncertainty and compliance costs for banks and payment centers. The Senate recently followed suit with its own attempt to clarify the ambiguities in the 2006 Act.

But Armey sounds a wider warning: "Beyond correcting the economic burdens of the law, however, Americans ought to be concerned about the larger questions of the law's impact on privacy and Internet freedom for the future.

"Once the federal government begins implementing guidelines for various types of online [financial] transactions, what is to prevent it from becoming more involved in every activity on the Internet?," he asks.

"The Founding Fathers took great care constructing a government that would protect our endowed rights and liberties, not restrict and monitor them. Americans don't want the government monitoring their private transactions, online or offline," he asserts.

Armey goes on to illustrate how the Internet has proved to be a powerful and valuable force in the US economy.

"Annual e-commerce retail sales in the United States reached $107 billion in 2006, a 22 percent jump over the previous year. Restrictive government mandates would only restrain such growth, not encourage it. Each new mandate also brings further government encroachment upon the rights and liberties guaranteed by the Constitution. It is precisely because it developed relatively free from government oversight that the Internet has become such a dynamic part of our economy," Armey argues.

He ends with a caution for government officials: "Congress has acknowledged the potential downside of its foray onto the Internet with the 2006 Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act, and is working to correct its overreach. The Treasury Department should follow this lead, and not rush forward with sweeping government mandates that threaten the future growth and innovation on the Internet."

Armey is respected not only as an economist, but as a politician too. He was GOP house majority leader between1995-2003 and one of the architects of the "Republican Revolution" of the 'nineties which saw the Republican Party achieve majorities in both houses of Congress for the first time in 40 years.

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^^Dick Armey makes some good logical arguments for leaving the Internet alone but so far, I don't see Treasury officials saying, "Armey makes some good points so why don't we pull those proposed regulations and leave online gambling alone." I just don't know how much "pull" Armey has with not being in Congress anymore.
 
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Do you folks really believe these moral authority folks gives a rats ass about our online gambling?

It has to do with MONEY (campaign contribution and raw cash under the table )from the local gambling industry, Las Vegas, Biloxi, AC , etc the lotteries horse racing ,dog racing and on and on to the politicans. What motivation would a politican have form sneaking in a bill attached to another bill which had to pass?....
Very few folks in congress do anything for "we the people" It all depends on how much monies the lobbyist are willing to give Its that simple! Bastards!!!
 
Not only does Dick Armey not have any political pull, but all he is doing is defending the Republican policies that got us into this Depression.

If political pull were gunpowder, the Republicans would not have enough to blow out the brains of an ant...
 
Do you folks really believe these moral authority folks gives a rats ass about our online gambling?

It has to do with MONEY (campaign contribution and raw cash under the table )from the local gambling industry, Las Vegas, Biloxi, AC , etc the lotteries horse racing ,dog racing and on and on to the politicans. What motivation would a politican have form sneaking in a bill attached to another bill which had to pass?....
Very few folks in congress do anything for "we the people" It all depends on how much monies the lobbyist are willing to give Its that simple! Bastards!!!


I believe that is a perception held not just in the United States but in other Western countries, where our cultures have brought us up to expect a higher standard of conduct and morals from our politicians than we actually receive.

There has been extensive reportage on how the activities of lobbyists, corporate manipulators, ethnic bodies and politicians shape legislation that is not always fair and equitable (take the carve-outs of horse racing and state lotteries from anti-online gambling laws as a glaring example) or "for the people."

Mandatory disclosures of political donations and lobbying expenditure show millions if not billions in play, and (legal) campaign contributions to politicians at both state and federal level appear to have no limits - leading to skewed laws that often seem blatantly commercially protective of some types of gambling at the cost of others or competitors.

Where "for the people" is rolled out at election time or as just a convenient vehicle to window dress something that has a far more base and self-interested agenda.

I think there's more than a little cynicism in the public's attitude toward politicians, and it's not unjustified - we see a microcosm of that right here in the political rants forum.

That widespread voter cynicism appears to concern at least some politicians, and has been referred to recently by both UK and US politicians promising better governance.

In the US, I think one of the expectations folks have for the president-elect is a higher standard, and we can only hope that is one of his many challenges where he will succeed.

As for Armery, putting aside political partisanship for a moment, I think his thoughts are well expressed and certainly resonate with me - these latest developments have the markings of a less-than-efficient bureaucratic urgency to get the thing done and dusted with as little further debate as possible.

And Net Neutrality is definitely impacted by this sort of ill-considered and questionably passed law.
 
Even if Bush does sign this into law, there's going to be so much criticism over it, I think Obama will have no choice to repeal it.

I doubt he was elected on such a mandate...he'll be sympathetic, but busy I bet.
 
The reason Bush and cronies are pushing to get this regulation in place before they leave office is that once Federal regulations are in place and signed off by the current leadership they are almost impossible to get removed... The system was set up that way on purpose.
 
Bush Administration Moves Forward to Force Banks to Ban Internet Gambling

Bush Administration Moves Forward on Midnight Rulemaking to Force Banks to Ban Internet Gambling

NFL Lobbyist Turned Political Appointee Accused of Improper Involvement in Rush to Issue Regulations

(Washington, D.C. - November 10, 2008) The Bush Administration is working to finalize regulations to enforce a ban on Internet gambling despite concerns raised by leading financial service companies that the regulations are ambiguous, burdensome and not likely to stop millions of Americans from gambling online. It is expected that the regulations, issued to implement the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (UIGEA), will be finalized at the last minute before they can be stopped by the Obama Administration an orchestrated move being linked to a former National Football League (NFL) lobbyist now working in the Bush Administration. The NFL has actively campaigned against clarifying UIGEA and has opposed legislation introduced by Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) to regulate online gambling in order to protect consumers and generate billions for critical State and Federal programs.

"At a time when the financial system is in crisis, it is irresponsible for the Bush Administration to rush through a fundamentally flawed regulation that even representatives of the Treasury Department and Federal Reserve have stated on record is unworkable," said Jeffrey Sandman, spokesman for the Safe and Secure Internet Gambling Initiative. "We are skeptical of the Administration's motivation to get this done at the very last minute, especially given the apparent involvement of a NFL lobbyist turned Bush appointee."

Last week, Rep. Steve Cohen (D-Tenn.) asked White House Counsel Fred Fielding to detail what role Deputy Director of Public Liaison William Wichterman played in the Treasury Department's decision to send the proposed rule to the Office of Management and Budget for final review on October 20. In a November 7 letter to Mr. Fielding, Rep. Cohen said he had been told that Mr. Wichterman "has been a source of considerable political pressure to speed this regulation through.'' The letter further stated, "The National Football League has been among the most vocal advocates for the proposed rule and the underlying law. I am sure you will agree that, at a minimum, the appearance of a conflict of interest is undeniable."

As recently as March 2008, Mr. Wichterman was a paid lobbyist for the NFL, which has been a strong opponent of all forms of Internet gambling except for fantasy sports an activity that generates more than $1 billion a year in revenues. Mr. Wichterman recently left the law firm of Covington and Burling, which represents the NFL, to serve as a political appointee in the few remaining months of the Bush Administration.

Movement on UIGEA comes despite a commitment by the Bush Administration not to issue final regulations after November 1, 2008 except in "extraordinary circumstances." A delay in issuance of the final regulations was also expected given the September passage of the Payment System Protection Act by the House Financial Services Committee. The legislation would have delayed UIGEA implementation in order to develop regulations that do not harm the payments system.

"The Bush Administration is setting a horrible precedent of pushing through flawed regulations at the very last minute to deliberately circumvent the in-coming administration, added Sandman. The special interests, including the NFL, are clearly the big winners with this last minute maneuver, leaving already struggling banks and financial companies to implement costly and poorly crafted regulations.

A fundamental flaw in the proposed regulations to enforce UIGEA is that they leave U.S. financial service companies to interpret ambiguous State and Federal gambling laws, which do not clearly differentiate between legal and illegal Internet gambling activities or transactions, according to a report issued by the Center for Regulatory Effectiveness.

Representatives of the Department of the Treasury and Federal Reserve System acknowledged the challenges U.S. financial institutions will face in attempting to comply with UIGEA in testimony before Congress in April. Since most payment systems are not designed to comply with this law, "it will be very difficult to shut off payment systems for use of Internet gambling transactions," said Ms. Louise Roseman, Director, Division of Federal Reserve Bank Operations and Payment Systems, Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System. "The implementing statute will not be iron clad at all."

At the April hearing, representatives from the American Bankers Association, Financial Services Roundtable, Wells Fargo & Co. and Credit Union National Association unanimously opposed regulations proposed to implement UIGEA. They all questioned the fundamental approach taken by Congress in enacting legislation that forces financial institutions to implement unreasonable and costly solutions to achieve compliance.

"The UIGEA and the Proposed Rule do not provide a rational path towards halting unlawful Internet gambling," said Wayne Abernathy, American Bankers Association's executive vice president of financial institutions policy and regulatory affairs. "The path leads to an increased cost and administrative burden to the banks and an erosion in the performance of the payments system, but it will not result in stopping illegal Internet gambling transactions. Imposing this enormous unfunded law enforcement mandate on banks in place of the government's law enforcement agencies is not likely to be a successful public policy."

Mr. Leigh Williams, president of the technology division of the Financial Services Roundtable stated in his testimony concerns that enforcement of the proposed rules "could impose significant compliance burdens on financial institutions by increasing their role in policing illegal activities, determining whether a transaction is illegal, or by imposing ambiguous compliance requirements that could be subject to wide variations in interpretation by regulators and law enforcement agencies. We believe these functions are more appropriate for law enforcement agencies."

The testimony supports over 200 comments submitted to the Department of the Treasury and Federal Reserve System on the burden and ambiguity in the proposed rules to implement UIGEA.

"The reality is that UIGEA is unclear, burdensome and doomed to fail," said Sandman. "It simply does not make sense to impose more costs and burdens on financial companies, while the activity they are expected to stop flourishes in an unregulated, uncontrolled and underground marketplace. Congress should look to regulate Internet gambling in order to protect consumers and collect billions of dollars that are being lost to offshore Internet gambling operators."

The Internet Gambling Regulation and Enforcement Act of 2007 (H.R. 2046), introduced by Rep. Frank, would establish an enforcement framework for licensed gambling operators to accept bets and wagers from individuals in the U.S. It includes a number of built-in consumer protections, including safeguards against compulsive and underage gambling, money laundering, fraud and identity theft. A companion piece of legislation that would ensure the collection of taxes on regulated Internet gambling activities, the Internet Gambling Regulation and Tax Enforcement Act of 2008 (H.R. 5523) was introduced by Congressman Jim McDermott (D-WA). According to a tax revenue analysis prepared by PricewaterhouseCoopers, taxation of regulated Internet gambling is expected to generate between $8.7 billion to $42.8 billion in federal revenues over its first 10 years.

About Safe and Secure Internet Gambling Initiative

The Safe and Secure Internet Gambling Initiative promotes the freedom of individuals to gamble online with the proper safeguards to protect consumers and ensure the integrity of financial transactions. For more information on the Initiative, please visit www.safeandsecureig.org. The Web site provides a means by which individuals can register support for regulated Internet gambling with their elected representatives.
 
Poker Players Alliance asking for you to join the REAL Fight...

Poker Players Alliance is pitted in a fight to keep anti-Internet poker regulations from being enacted and we NEED YOUR HELP!

The current Administration is hastily finalizing a number of midnight rules before they leave office and the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) is on the list. See the 11/06 story in Dow Jones. Just like UIGEA was snuck into legislation in the dark of night in 2006, our opponents are again trying an 11th hour sneak job. We need you to help us expose and stop this reckless rulemaking.

Please call the U.S. Federal Reserve and tell them not to approve the UIGEA regulations -- Consumer Complaints, 888-851-1920 or Public Affairs, 202-452-2955.

Tell them:

* The federal agencies responsible for our nations economy should not be focused on Internet poker regulations.
* Finalization of the UIGEA rules will add additional burdens on our already crippled financial systems.
* Internet poker is a game of skill and form of recreation for millions of Americans; it should be exempted from the UIGEA.
* Please do not finalize the UIGEA regulations until their impact on our banking systems and average Americans has been fully studied.
 
PR UPDATE!

For Immediate Release: November 10, 2008

Contact: Steve Adamske (202) 225-7141 or Heather Wong (202) 226-3314



Frank Calls on Bush Administration to Delay Internet Gambling Regulations

Rules to take effect on January 19; Bush promised end to midnight regulations



Washington, DCHouse Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-MA) today wrote to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Board of Governors Chairman Ben Bernanke asking them to postpone issuing regulations pursuant to the Unlawful Internet Gambling Act.



Frank wrote, I am deeply disappointed to hear that your agency is proceeding with what I consider to be unseemly haste in issuing regulations implementing the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act. This midnight rulemaking will tie the hands of the new Administration, burden the financial services industry at a time of economic crisis, and contradict the stated intent of the Financial Services Committee.



The full text of Chairman Franks letters as follows:



November 10, 2008

The Honorable Henry M. Paulson, Jr.
Secretary
U.S. Department of the Treasury
1500 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20220



Dear Mr. Secretary:

I am deeply disappointed to hear that your agency is proceeding with what I consider to be unseemly haste in issuing regulations implementing the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act. This midnight rulemaking will tie the hands of the new Administration, burden the financial services industry at a time of economic crisis, and contradict the stated intent of the Financial Services Committee

As you know, at our April hearing, the testimony of your representatives and the industry indicated that it would be particularly difficult to craft workable regulations to effectively enforce the statute without having a substantial adverse effect on the payments system. Subsequently, my colleagues and I introduced legislation (HR 5767, later HR 6870) that would prohibit the implementation of these flawed rules and replace them with a formal rulemaking process that would define the term unlawful internet gambling, something the proposed rules fail to do. HR 6870 was passed by the Financial Services Committee on September 16.

The proposed regulations, like the underlying UIGEA statute, fail to define the term unlawful internet gambling, leaving it to each financial institution to reconcile conflicting state and federal laws, court decisions and inconsistent Department of Justice interpretations when determining whether to process a transaction. Furthermore, some of the information needed to make this determination would likely be unavailable to banks because customers or financial institutions in foreign jurisdictions will likely be unwilling or unable to provide it.

I strongly urge you to delay implementation of these major, and deeply flawed regulations to permit the incoming Administration the ability to review the consequences of such a significant policy decision, rather than unfairly being denied that opportunity.

BARNEY FRANK



***



November 10, 2008



The Honorable Ben S. Bernanke

Chairman
Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
20th & C Streets, NW
Washington, DC 20551


Dear Chairman Bernanke:

I submit to you the letter I sent to Treasury. I realize that the implementation of this flawed statute is not a task you requested. I also appreciate the candor with which your representative answered the questions at our hearing, confirming that this is an impossible task. There is no evidence that these issues have been in any way overcome. I strongly urge you not to burden the new Administration with administering a statute which cannot be carried out

BARNEY FRANK
 
Perhaps the banks should take the Kentucky line, as used in their case, that if there is no law saying a specific gambling transaction is legal, then consider it to be illegal. This means that all those self interested parties that negotiated the carve-outs would also find that THEY had trouble getting their transactions through until they had managed to get in place specific laws that made each individual kind of bet legal, and this would have to be repeated for each state, lest inter-state confusion STILL caused transaction failures.

This would only temporarily hurt offshore companies, who would soon find ways around the flawed and ambiguous regulations, knowing that they were now "finalised".

If players found their "legal" gambling curtailed as an effect of flawed enforcement, they are MORE likely to turn to the offshore companies, not LESS likely.

The BANKS are not going to spend money on being the moral police, they will find the most efficient, cost effective, manner to enforce the LETTER of the regulations, and will not worry about the INTENT, which is to allow some online gambling if it went to the "carve-out" operators, but block the rest.
The CHEAPEST option by far would be to block ALL transactions that they both KNOW are "online gambling", AND those where "certain indicators" show that the transaction is "more likely than not an online gambling one" - all this being automated, with little in the way of an appeals process to get a "legal" transaction unblocked because it inadvertently got blocked by "indicators" despite being legal.
Banks are NOT simply going to take the word of the customer attempting to gamble that it is legal, are they!
 
Rep. Cohen complains about midnight rule making

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By Bartholomew Sullivan (Contact), Memphis Commercial Appeal
Originally published 05:24 p.m., November 10, 2008
Updated 05:24 p.m., November 10, 2008


WASHINGTON U.S. Rep. Steve Cohen, D-Tenn., has written a letter to White House counsel Fred Fielding complaining that it appears the Bush Administration wants to finalize federal rules against Internet gambling before it leaves office.

Cohen, a proponent of the Internet gambling that Congress banned in 2006, also raised questions about William Wichterman, a White House staffer. Wichterman represented the National Football League, a proponent of the proposed rule, as a lobbyist as recently as March of this year.

I am sure you will agree that, at a minimum, the appearance of a conflict of interest is undeniable....
 
Yeah - prior to his White House appointment this guy Wichterman was working for a lobbying company and its National Football League client, specifically on anti-online gambling moves.

And before that he was one of Senator Bill Frist's aides.

Ya - I'd say he would have some conflict of interest to explain...
 
I don't want to be accused of being a conspiracy theorist, but....

Why does the NFL have such a strong stand against online gaming?
Why would the NFL spend millions on lobbing against online gaming and even go so far as to hire lobbyists (White House Staffers) to attack the online gaming industry?

The NFL's stated reason for opposing online gaming is that gambling on the NFL games will compromise the games and the players...

Yet, the NFL says nothing about the 100's of Millions of Dollars that are wagered on NFL games in Las Vegas and other land based casinos inside the USA and around the World...

Just what makes these land based sports bets different than online wagers? Absolutely Nothing...

What then makes the NFL such an enemy of online gambling??

You can start with this tidbit of info...
The current NFL Commissioner is Roger Goodell, the son of the late United States Senator Charles E. Goodell, is a Republican from New York and a Evangelical born again Christian, that has embraced the Neo-Con philosophy of the Bush Administration...

The NFL's stand against online gaming is religious/political in motivation... Their position has nothing to do with gambling ruining the 100's of millions in corporate profit from the game...

Do you know who wants to be NFL Commissioner with all her little heart.... Conda Lisa Rice...
 
from the Las Vegas Review Journal....

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Despite an earlier announcement that it would not issue any new "final" regulations after Nov. 1 except in "extraordinary circumstances" -- and despite concerns raised by the nation's bankers that the proposed regulations will be hard to obey and are not likely to work -- the outgoing Bush administration appears to be racing to finalize rules to enforce a ban on Internet gambling before it leaves office.

Critics also object that the new rules -- designed to ...

Given the current state of the nation's banks and the financial sector in general, it would be hard to imagine a worse time to impose on those institutions an ill-thought-out set of rules which will balloon their compliance costs and expose them to potential fines or prosecution should they fail to divine "legal" from "illegal" transactions (a task better suited to a psychic with a turban and a crystal ball), especially when -- according to all sources -- it probably wouldn't do much to slow down Internet gaming, anyway.

The Bush administration should back off.
 
I don't thing there is any doubt that we are witnessing one reason why Bush and his cronies have the lowest approval rating of any President in History.

The UGIEA law has so far cost US business untold Millions in lost business and forced Honest operators out of the US Market.

The UGIEA law has forced honest operators out the US Market, leaving US Citizens that want to gamble online in the hands of shady operators and criminals.

All this for what?

All in an effort to force unwanted religious mores down peoples throats...

I hope the NEW and Improved Justice Department under the new President will be more concerned about "JUSTICE" than what my personal mores are...
 
More on this from HuffPo:

WASHINGTON The Bush administration is moving in its last weeks to finalize regulations to enforce a controversial law that seeks to block Internet gambling. The move is drawing hot protests from Democratic lawmakers and supporters of online betting.

"This midnight rulemaking will tie the hands of the new administration, burden the financial services industry at a time of economic crisis and contradict the stated intent of the Financial Services Committee," the committee's chairman, Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., wrote this week to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. ....

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Sad News

From the Poker Players Alliance...

Dear Lots0,

I have unfortunate news to report. Despite the efforts of the poker community, the opposition of the banks and the recent news exposing inappropriate influence by the White House, today the current administration finalized the UIGEA regulations to be made effective on January 19th the day before president-elect Obama officially takes office. A copy of the final UIGEA regulations and the PPAs response can be found on our Web site.

I am sure that you share my outrage over this last-minute "midnight rulemaking," but I have not lost my drive to correct this injustice and I call on you to join me and the million strong PPA to help continue our fight. In fact, the Politico Newspaper reports on 11/12 that Congressional leaders are already plotting legislation for next year that will undermine the White House's "midnight" regulations. We must make sure that UIGEA is part of this regulation reversal.

There are 4 things you should do to respond to the government's actions:

1. Call your Member of Congress and let him or her know how disappointed you are by the lame duck administration's implementation of UIGEA and subsequent erosion of your personal freedom.

2. Send an email to the Obama Transition team and tell President-elect Obama that once in office he should immediately turn back the UIGEA and other "midnight rules" issued by President Bush.

3. Help the PPA help you. Become a Premium Member of PPA if you are not already. For only $20 you help us be effective advocates for poker and your membership put us in a strong position to defend your rights. If you are already a Premium PPA member please consider making an additional contribution to our fight.

4. Forward this to your friends and stay updated on the latest developments regarding the UIGEA regulations.

This is not the time to bow our heads in defeat; rather we must continue our efforts with renewed vigor. Thank you for your support and dedication to protecting the game we love.

Proud to play,
Alfonse D'Amato, Chairman
Poker Players Alliance
 
From the Poker Players Alliance...

found this site for Pres. Obama, and there isa place for suggestions, idea's, and stories

His site:
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He is taking some so these and going to change them when he takes office.
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check it out.
Thanks LilJohn for the link


Cindy
 
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Update

FULL SPEED AHEAD FOR UIGEA REGS (Update)

Implementation is January 19, 2009 with compliance by banks to start December 1st 2009.

Ignoring pleas from interested parties that included the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, Treasury officials have rammed the supporting regulations for the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act through regardless, setting January 19th - the day before the official departure of the Bush administration - as the implementation date.

The financial services industry, reluctantly pushed into enforcing the controversial regulations has until December 1st 2009 to comply with the requirement to halt all "illegal online gambling" financial transactions from players in the United States.

The 66 page rule, published mid-week by the Treasury, relies on financial institutions "performing due diligence" on corporate customers to ensure they're not processing online gambling transactions.

Although the regulations have still not delivered a clear and unambiguous definition of "illegal Internet gambling", a Treasury statement noted: "For purposes of the rule, unlawful Internet gambling generally would cover the making of a bet or wager that involves use of the Internet and that is unlawful under any applicable federal or state law in the jurisdiction where the bet or wager is initiated, received, or otherwise made."

Online players, internet freedom advocates, opposing politicians and the financial and banking industry itself have all criticised the regulations for a lack of precision, and there has been widespread condemnation of the additional burden it places on the US financial industry.

Nevada Representative Shelly Berkley, who has the support of the American Gaming Association in proposing an independent study of the Internet gambling phenomenon, commented: "The clock is ticking on President Bush's prohibitionist crusade against Internet gaming and that is clearly why these flawed regulations are being forced on the financial services industry at the very last minute."

Earlier this week, the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., had asked the Treasury not to move ahead with the regulations at this point, saying it would "burden the financial services industry at a time of economic crisis" and pointing out that a change of political administration that may have a different approach was imminent.

"This midnight rulemaking will tie the hands of the new administration, burden the financial services industry at a time of economic crisis and contradict the stated intent of the Financial Services Committee," Frank said.

The new regulation also failed to define unlawful Internet gambling, Frank said, "leaving it to each financial institution to reconcile conflicting state and federal laws, court decisions and inconsistent Department of Justice interpretations when determining whether to process a transaction. Furthermore, some of the information needed to make this determination would likely be unavailable to banks because customers or financial institutions in foreign jurisdictions will likely be unwilling or unable to provide it."

Frank has tried to overturn the UIGEA with a proposal for a regulated US Internet gambling industry, which was narrowly defeated in committee. He has more recently attempted to force Treasury drafters into more clarity, an initiative which claims that the law did not offer a clear definition of Internet gambling, instead referring to existing federal and state laws, which themselves provoke differing interpretations.

Banks and other financial institutions have complained they are being forced into a law enforcement role when Congress could not even define what conduct it was trying to prevent.

But not everyone was disturbed by the abrupt publication of the regulation in the waning days of the Bush administration. Arch-online gambling opponent and Alabama Republican Representative Spencer Bachus welcomed the publication of the new regulations in a statement in which he said: "No longer will the offshore gambling interests benefit from anyone turning any computer into a casino that is available every minute of the day." Bachus has exerted considerable and prolonged political effort over the years to ensure that American players would not have the choice of gambling online.

The rule issued this week to implement the 2006 UIGEA requires "U.S. financial firms that participate in designated payment systems to establish and implement policies that are reasonably designed to prevent payments to businesses in connection with unlawful Internet gambling," the Treasury Department said in its statement.

According to the Treasury Department, during the public comment period of the proposed UIGEA rule, "about 20 commenters, almost all of them depository institutions, noted that notwithstanding the Agencies' efforts to craft a reasonable rule, the proposed regulation would be unduly burdensome and would result in compliance costs greater than any offsetting societal benefits.

"Several of these commenters stated that the rule would adversely affect the competitiveness of the U.S. payments system, and that the Agencies should be cognizant of the potential for the Act and similar laws to cumulatively cause capital flight and erode the U.S. dollar's status as the world's reserve currency."

The Treasury Department says the comments were taken into consideration, but says it believes "that flexible, risk-based due diligence procedures at account opening, such as those set out in the final rule, present the best option for balancing these two interests."

The UIGEA itself is currently being challenged in the US 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals on "void for vagueness" grounds, by iMEGA (Interactive Media Entertainment & Gaming Association).
 
From the Kansas City Star...

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Federal regulations issued Wednesday to enforce a law passed two years ago by Congress aimed at outlawing internet gambling might achieve precisely the opposite effect.

Faithful to the broad strokes of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006, the Treasury departments controversial 121-page rule exempts intrastate cyber gambling that is authorized by sovereign states or tribes, and sanctions online wagering under federal interstate horse racing gambling laws.

The rules also exempt individual gamblers from enforcement, baring the governments regulatory teeth only at commercial gambling companies that ....
 
From I. Nelson Rose:

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Copyright 2008, Professor I Nelson Rose, www.GamblingAndTheLaw.com.


It took 66 pages of fine print. But in the end the federal regulators charged with making regulations to enforce the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA) simply gave up. They were supposed to make rules forcing financial institutions to identify and block money transfers for unlawful Internet gambling ...
 
WOW!!!
I am F*&&ing Flabbergasted...

I FRICKIN LOVE this part....
Anyone who uses paper checks, wire transfers, foreign bank credit cards, or overseas payment processors to load, reload or cash out can continue to do so.
Source:
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I. Nelson Rose is an acknowledged expert in online gaming laws.

I think I'm gonna party! :D
 
and then there is this...

What's really interesting.
The most interesting part of the new rule, for me, is that unlicensed Internet gaming operators can set up business relations with U.S. financial institutions, if the operators provide a reasoned legal opinion that it does not engage in restricted transactions. That means if I, as a licensed attorney and an expert on gaming law, give a legal opinion that a gambling operator is not violating federal or state laws, that should be good enough.
source:
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Again, I. Nelson Rose is an acknowledged expert in US online gaming law.

LMAO... Going to get totally f... up right now, in the middle of the day...
Xmas came early this year... :D


Added....
Before I get totally screwed up... here is a link to the actual set of rules if anyone wants to read it.
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If its up to my bank to enforce it, its buisness as usual. They approve my debit card transactions and charge anywhere from .50 to $1 as an international service fee. The govt. wants them to stop getting this fee?

yeah right! Banks love fee's that aren't contested.

They also get $15 for a wire transfer.

Our govt' is a group of braindead, greedy, power hungry idiots.
 
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Cable news channels are also mentioning this article and applauding the official end of internet gambling for casinos. Somewhere the true story has to be out there you would think. :confused:

New Rules For Banks Target Online Gambling

By R. Jeffrey Smith
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, November 13, 2008; Page A05

The Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve Bank yesterday issued new regulations spelling out how banks and other financial institutions must comply with a 2006 law that bans many forms of Internet gambling.

The regulations were released just a few days after critics of the law questioned the involvement of a former National Football League lobbyist in the White House's final review of the new rules.

Running 120 pages, the regulations detail how banks must identify and block illegal Internet gambling transactions beginning in January.

Companies involved in processing online payments have complained that the task will be difficult and costly.

Some Democratic lawmakers had proposed to regulate and tax Internet gambling instead, an approach opposed by the Bush administration and many congressional Republicans.

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino declined yesterday to explain why ethics officers had approved the participation of William Wichterman, a former lobbyist for the NFL, in the White House's final review of the regulations. Wichterman now works in the White House Office of Public Liaison.

Internet gambling officials and Rep. Stephen I. Cohen (D-Tenn.) had called Wichterman's involvement a conflict of interest, noting that the NFL had paid Wichterman and other lawyers millions of dollars in lobbying fees, in part to press for implementation of the gambling law.

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Update

iMEGA FILES LATEST RESPONSE (Update)

Representative body says new UIGEA regulations strengthen its case

The legal team at the Interactive Media Entertainment & Gaming Association (iMEGA) has filed their response brief with the US 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals, the latest step in their challenge to the constitutionality of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (UIGEA). Their suit - iMEGA v. Keisler, et al - targets the US Department of Justice (DoJ), the Federal Reserve and the Federal Trade Commission, and seeks to have the law overturned on constitutional grounds by the appeals court.

The filing comes one day after the US Department of the Treasury and the Federal Reserve System published the final regulations for UIGEA, requiring all US banks, credit card companies and electronic payment processors to refuse all "unlawful Internet gambling" transactions.

"After reviewing the final regulations, we're extremely confident the court will look at this law and agree that UIGEA should be 'void for vagueness," said Joe Brennan Jr., chairman of iMEGA. "Regulators and Congress have refused to even define what 'unlawful internet gambling' is, and if you cannot even answer that basic question, how exactly are banks supposed to do it?"

The reply brief in in answer to an earlier brief submitted by the government, challenging the basis for iMEGA's suit. iMEGA's legal team answered the government's arguments point-by-point:

1. DoJ's claim that a "void for vagueness" argument against UIGEA was not raised by iMEGA at the trial court level is groundless, as it was addressed and preserved by the trial court and in Judge Mary J. Cooper's decision.

2. DoJ's claim that iMEGA lacks standing to raise privacy claims of individual Internet gamblers fails to recognize that iMEGA members may be prosecuted under UIGEA for permitting individuals to gamble on their Web sites

3. DoJ failed to refute the fact that UIGEA has no uniformity regarding "illegal gambling" in the states, and is therefore "void for vagueness"

4. DoJ are wrong when they deny gambling online in one's home - which is not a criminal activity - lacks constitutional privacy protection, even when such conduct is indeed private, consensual and legal under UIGEA.

The next step in this challenge will be for a three-judge panel to be selected by the court to review the briefs, and decide at what time the court would entertain oral arguments from both sides.

"For our part, we cannot wait for the opportunity to go before the 3rd Circuit," Brennan said. "We have a powerful argument that the government will find very hard to dispute. The sooner we can move this fatally flawed law off the books, the sooner we can turn our attention to working on technology solutions that will provide for a regulated online gaming industry in the US, while addressing the concerns for responsible gaming that critics have voiced."
 
Arch-online gambling opponent and Alabama Republican Representative Spencer Bachus welcomed the publication of the new regulations in a statement in which he said: "No longer will the offshore gambling interests benefit from anyone turning any computer into a casino that is available every minute of the day."

Ah, I'm so pleased to hear from this lunatic again...:rolleyes:
 
Heard last night on MSNBC that the Bushies screwed up with their "midnight drop" deadline, something about it actually being quite easy for the incoming administration to overturn stuff that was rammed through at the last minute _if_ they have a majority in congress. Turns out the out-going guys need to table stuff months in advance or else it is subject to congressional review.

Not sure how this affects the UIGEA stuff but it might turn out to be a good thing.
 
It's a great story, but I haven't been able to unearth anything on it so far, Max - if you come across something further please post it.
 
Heard the same thing as Max.

Because of all the "Midnight Drops" (last minute Rules, intended to tie the hands of incoming president) by Bush and cronies the Democrats are planning on undoing all of them and the Democrats have found a law that lets them do this...

There is a building anger at the hundreds of these regulations that bush is pushing in his lame duck term, especially sense Bush specifically promised not to put new rules into effect after November 1.
Gee Bush lied again... who would have guessed...:rolleyes:
 

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