Casino Complaint Trying to withdraw winnings and getting nowhere fast!!

[cupcake75]

Hi everyone,

I'm having a problem making a withdrawal from Harry Casino,the withdrawal kept getting reversed back into my playing account so after the second time i contacted live support to ask why it wasn't being processed to be told i needed to provide Id fair enough even though i have made withdrawals before.
The problem is they are insisting it has to be a passport or drivers licence plus utility bill. I dont drive and my passport has expired (i haven't been on holiday in over 7 yrs so didnt really see the point in paying £72 to re-new something i knew i wasn't ever likely to be in a position to use!) I asked if seeing as they only wanted the "photo id " side can i still use it and was told no,I then asked if a birth certificate,along with the passport and additional utility bill is acceptable but apparently not and was told by the chat advisor to re-new my passport as thats the only way i will be able to withdraw.

This seems a bit ridiculous as surely i cant be the only person who doesnt hold either of these types of Id?? Has anyone else experienced this problem and resolved it without going to the lengths of paying money to re-new a passport?!!

I obviously want to withdraw my winnings but it seems a bit ridiculous that they insist this is the only way to do it?

 

[asadzareef89]

Hi everyone,

I'm having a problem making a withdrawal from Harry Casino,the withdrawal kept getting reversed back into my playing account so after the second time i contacted live support to ask why it wasn't being processed to be told i needed to provide Id fair enough even though i have made withdrawals before.
The problem is they are insisting it has to be a passport or drivers licence plus utility bill. I dont drive and my passport has expired (i haven't been on holiday in over 7 yrs so didnt really see the point in paying £72 to re-new something i knew i wasn't ever likely to be in a position to use!) I asked if seeing as they only wanted the "photo id " side can i still use it and was told no,I then asked if a birth certificate,along with the passport and additional utility bill is acceptable but apparently not and was told by the chat advisor to re-new my passport as thats the only way i will be able to withdraw.

This seems a bit ridiculous as surely i cant be the only person who doesnt hold either of these types of Id?? Has anyone else experienced this problem and resolved it without going to the lengths of paying money to re-new a passport?!!

I obviously want to withdraw my winnings but it seems a bit ridiculous that they insist this is the only way to do it?

Well if they insist on it you wont be able to do much but you could apply for provisional license as that will be with you in max 2 weeks i got mine in 5 days as they got my photo from IPS and its only 50. I don't see them backing from it personally but expired passport should have been fine along with your Birth Certificiate. You could try emailing their manager and see what he says. And if you still can't do that you can PAB.

My opinion is that they suspect something suspicious as they have asked for ID after your withdrawals were approved before.

Good luck

 

[Jasminebed]

If you can tell us what country you live in, maybe we could suggest other choices of photo ID. There's no casino rep for Harry Casino here, so no help there I'm afraid.

I'd try emailing support, you can usually only get stock answers from most livechat operators.

Never mind, I guess "pounds" answers my question.

 

[suomikala87]

Never mind, I guess "pounds" answers my question.

Harry Casino doesn't have any other currencies available.

Edit--- and ofcourse you referred to the passport re-newal so nevermind here as well

 

[cupcake75]

Thanks for the replies and advice guys,I'm in the Uk sorry

i never thought of applying for a provisional license i guess thats another way to try its still annoying though having to go to these lengths in the first place. I did mention i had previously withdrawn no problem to the chat advisor and was told when people have withdrawn up to £1000 then Id is required for future withdrawals. What is a PAB? sorry to be thick lol

 

[asadzareef89]

Thanks for the replies and advice guys,I'm in the Uk sorry

i never thought of applying for a provisional license i guess thats another way to try its still annoying though having to go to these lengths in the first place. I did mention i had previously withdrawn no problem to the chat advisor and was told when people have withdrawn up to £1000 then Id is required for future withdrawals. What is a PAB? sorry to be thick lol

Its where you can submit your complain on CM if you think the casino is wrong or you find them non compliant to your issues, bonus issues, withdrawals etc but before Pitch A Bitch against a casino through max at CM you should contact their Rep here on CM. Plus if you do decide to PAB you would have to stop posting on this post until your PAB has been dealt with.

I think they would not back down from a valid photo id though so best just apply for Provisional and wait it out, but please while waiting donot play and lose the balance. Have patience

 

[Osloking]

Hi there, i would contact the Betsson gruop Rep here since Harry casino is same group as betsson & casinoeuro and let him know you having some trouble to sort this out.

As long as you have one that not out-dated ID will work, make sure to scan it and save it for later use in same folder as the Utility bill. if you don't have Utility at the moment, you can go to the National Registry and request of copy to prove your address. And next time you can send those documents even if you don't have a withdraw so your withdraw get prossesed faster.

i know it may sound stressful but this is due to the regulation that affect players.

Good luck!

 

[cupcake75]

Thanks for the help Osloking i messaged the Rep just waiting for a reply from him,I do have utility bills etc that are within the last 3 months so thats not a problem its just the photo id part but hopefully the Rep can help me in some way. I did get a reply from support at Harry Casino which basically just repeated what live chat had said so no further help there. One thing i was concerned about is if they do insist its a passport job given that it will take at least a month to apply/receive back will my winnings be safe??

 

[skiny]

Outdated photo ID should be the same as any other ID. I was using an expired driver's license for identification once while I waited for a new one to come in the mail and I was told suspiciously "This is expired."

I said "So? I don't become a different person when the new one arrives."





My new driver's license came in today.... I was hoping this time I'd be taller.

 

[Osloking]

One thing i was concerned about is if they do insist its a passport job given that it will take at least a month to apply/receive back will my winnings be safe??

Your winnings/balance is safe, they are pretty big and serious company so no worries. What you really have to fight now is to not play it back while you wait!

 

[cupcake75]

Thats a good point skiny! I wonder if i should just try the outdated Id anyways?? Then again they have repeatedly said no so its probably pointless

I have still had no reply from Rep is there anyone else who i could try for help?? I'm just anxious to get this sorted as quickly as possible

 

[sparkz]

From experience Harry are 1 casino that will never budge on ID circumstances.

For us in UK its Passport, Driving licence, Provisional... Or forget even depositing there.

I'm in the same boat when it comes to ID (Really P*sses me off when casinos that target UK audience, don't even know what ID is issued in the country they have targeted. They have the impression that everyone in the UK are issued with ID off the government just because thats what happens in some other country's)

Thankfully I asked them before depositing, but they wouldnt budge and common sense with what I could provide didnt prevail so I closed account

 

[bsilva028]

Hi there, i would contact the Betsson gruop Rep here since Harry casino is same group as betsson & casinoeuro and let him know you having some trouble to sort this out.

As long as you have one that not out-dated ID will work, make sure to scan it and save it for later use in same folder as the Utility bill. if you don't have Utility at the moment, you can go to the National Registry and request of copy to prove your address. And next time you can send those documents even if you don't have a withdraw so your withdraw get prossesed faster.

i know it may sound stressful but this is due to the regulation that affect players.

Good luck!

harry casinos is betsson group?
since when?

 

[chuchu59]

Hi everyone,

I'm having a problem making a withdrawal from Harry Casino,the withdrawal kept getting reversed back into my playing account so after the second time i contacted live support to ask why it wasn't being processed to be told i needed to provide Id fair enough even though i have made withdrawals before.
The problem is they are insisting it has to be a passport or drivers licence plus utility bill. I dont drive and my passport has expired (i haven't been on holiday in over 7 yrs so didnt really see the point in paying £72 to re-new something i knew i wasn't ever likely to be in a position to use!) I asked if seeing as they only wanted the "photo id " side can i still use it and was told no,I then asked if a birth certificate,along with the passport and additional utility bill is acceptable but apparently not and was told by the chat advisor to re-new my passport as thats the only way i will be able to withdraw.

This seems a bit ridiculous as surely i cant be the only person who doesnt hold either of these types of Id?? Has anyone else experienced this problem and resolved it without going to the lengths of paying money to re-new a passport?!!

I obviously want to withdraw my winnings but it seems a bit ridiculous that they insist this is the only way to do it?

I think its bloody ridiculous. You might not know how to drive and you don't travel. Well, I don't drive and haven't travelled to other countries except Macau for 2 decades. I have an ID Card but for you or UK customers for that matter why is it not possible for a birthday certificate to suffice? Its the proof of identity that matters not your face no matter how handsome or pretty you possibly are.

 

[sparkz]

I think its bloody ridiculous. You might not know how to drive and you don't travel. Well, I don't drive and haven't travelled to other countries except Macau for 2 decades. I have an ID Card but for you or UK customers for that matter why is it not possible for a birthday certificate to suffice? Its the proof of identity that matters not your face no matter how handsome or pretty you possibly are.

Totally agree, with many casinos its a refusal to use common sense which does cause problems for players... Happy to empty someone's wallet without any ID requests, then if they win, the casino wants specific ID from whats written down on paper, nothing country specific.

Casino's offering gambling to more than 1 country should know the law's and what ID is/isnt given in each country.

What should be fine across the board is a picture of a birth certificate with the player holding it. Fraudsters won't want their face on camera.

Casino staff wouldnt be happy if they worked there for a few months, then the casino all of a sudden said "Unless we get a copy of your government ID, Passport or Driving licence, you are out of a job"

 

[vinylweatherman]

Totally agree, with many casinos its a refusal to use common sense which does cause problems for players... Happy to empty someone's wallet without any ID requests, then if they win, the casino wants specific ID from whats written down on paper, nothing country specific.

Casino's offering gambling to more than 1 country should know the law's and what ID is/isnt given in each country.

What should be fine across the board is a picture of a birth certificate with the player holding it. Fraudsters won't want their face on camera.

Casino staff wouldnt be happy if they worked there for a few months, then the casino all of a sudden said "Unless we get a copy of your government ID, Passport or Driving licence, you are out of a job"

More like "Unless we get a copy of your government ID, Passport or Driving licence, you are not getting paid for the work you have done".

This would not be allowed in the UK as such checks should be done before an employee is engaged, not after they have already worked.

Casinos are already failing to implement KYC as it should be done, which is BEFORE any money changes hands.

The way casinos do KYC after the fact is one reason they are often faced with having money charged back by the legitimate cardholder's bank after having accepted deposits from a fraudster. I have also noticed the vast majority of casinos have not implemented the "verified by VISA" additional security step used for "card not present" transactions over the internet. This also makes them a target for fraudsters as without this step, the card details alone are sufficient to put a transaction through.

Since banks are responsible for refunding customers in the event of fraud, there is a move to insist that ALL internet transactions use this extra verification step, and this will be enforced by blocking transactions from merchants who have not signed up to the scheme.

 

[Nifty29]

More like "Unless we get a copy of your government ID, Passport or Driving licence, you are not getting paid for the work you have done".

This would not be allowed in the UK as such checks should be done before an employee is engaged, not after they have already worked.

Casinos are already failing to implement KYC as it should be done, which is BEFORE any money changes hands.

The way casinos do KYC after the fact is one reason they are often faced with having money charged back by the legitimate cardholder's bank after having accepted deposits from a fraudster. I have also noticed the vast majority of casinos have not implemented the "verified by VISA" additional security step used for "card not present" transactions over the internet. This also makes them a target for fraudsters as without this step, the card details alone are sufficient to put a transaction through.

Since banks are responsible for refunding customers in the event of fraud, there is a move to insist that ALL internet transactions use this extra verification step, and this will be enforced by blocking transactions from merchants who have not signed up to the scheme.

For goodness sake vinyl.

You really need to let this go.

Not providing ID AS PER THE AGREED UPON TERMS is NOT the same as having your salary withheld. LOL. Its ridiculous.

I've got a dozen arguments, but you've got enough rope now.

 

[vinylweatherman]

For goodness sake vinyl.

You really need to let this go.

Not providing ID AS PER THE AGREED UPON TERMS is NOT the same as having your salary withheld. LOL. Its ridiculous.

I've got a dozen arguments, but you've got enough rope now.

It's alright for you as you have all the ID you need. Just because one is alright doesn't mean one shouldn't fight for those in society less fortunate. If nobody said anything, nothing will change. Apply enough pressure, and changes can be made. I have all the ID I need too, but UK players keep on getting caught out because the headline marketing diverts the attention away from the potential problems in getting paid, and this is no accident either, it's done on purpose by most businesses, highlighting the positive and trying to minimise the negative.

UK players get caught because they have no idea they are "financially excluded" internationally as they do not have any trouble getting bank accounts and loans in this country, all of which require the passing of KYC checks.

Financial exclusion in the UK usually means those unable to even get bank accounts, and certainly not loans or cards. These people KNOW they are going to have trouble receiving any kind of money.

Given that casinos promote UKash as a deposit option, they ARE marketing directly to the very players who cannot pass the KYC checks, as UKash is designed for people who can't get bank accounts and debit cards due to KYC, but need a means to make online purchases. Such players are going to have trouble getting paid by a casino because they won't be able to cash a cheque, nor pass KYC for an eWallet account.

One might argue that people in this position "should not gamble", but one could also argue that casinos should not be marketing to them either, as this is not the promotion of "responsible gambling".

 

[asadzareef89]

In this time the OP has taken to argue his case over here he could have had his Driving License, so I think he should instead just give up explaining to them the various reasons he doesnt have a ID and make a Driving License/Passport as this would help him in future online gambling aswell. If he can't do that he should refrain from playing online. Common sense should always prevail

 

[Nifty29]

It's alright for you as you have all the ID you need. Just because one is alright doesn't mean one shouldn't fight for those in society less fortunate. If nobody said anything, nothing will change. Apply enough pressure, and changes can be made. I have all the ID I need too, but UK players keep on getting caught out because the headline marketing diverts the attention away from the potential problems in getting paid, and this is no accident either, it's done on purpose by most businesses, highlighting the positive and trying to minimise the negative.

UK players get caught because they have no idea they are "financially excluded" internationally as they do not have any trouble getting bank accounts and loans in this country, all of which require the passing of KYC checks.

Financial exclusion in the UK usually means those unable to even get bank accounts, and certainly not loans or cards. These people KNOW they are going to have trouble receiving any kind of money.

Given that casinos promote UKash as a deposit option, they ARE marketing directly to the very players who cannot pass the KYC checks, as UKash is designed for people who can't get bank accounts and debit cards due to KYC, but need a means to make online purchases. Such players are going to have trouble getting paid by a casino because they won't be able to cash a cheque, nor pass KYC for an eWallet account.

One might argue that people in this position "should not gamble", but one could also argue that casinos should not be marketing to them either, as this is not the promotion of "responsible gambling".

You keeping banging on that "UK players keep getting caught out" and trying to make out like it affects a plethora of players.

The FACT is, judging by the number of complaints involving UK players and ID at CM, that it affects a TINY proportion of players.....INCREDIBLY TINY. I can probably count on one hand how many players have had winnings not paid as a result of this "huge issue". Even then, in almost all cases the casino works something out with the player and all is settled.

Casinos cannot possibly cater to every single individual and every single individual's circumstances every single time....there will ALWAYS be exceptions, and , as I said, in most cases it is resolved.

You've been carting this dead horse around for years and it is starting to smell. It is an absolute NON ISSUE.

If it is IMPOSSIBLE for UK players who don't have ID to GET ID, then maybe you have a minor point....but it is NOT impossible. It just costs a bit of money. If they can afford to gamble, they can afford to purchase ID. If it is OK for everyone to have to supply it, then it is OK for them too....especially given that the casino states UP FRONT what is required in terms of ID. If you can't meet the criteria, then don't deposit and play. Simples.

The argument you make that the casinos are somehow breaching "responsible gambling" standards by advertising their services to people who have insufficient ID is perhaps the most ridiculous and illogical statement you have made this week. What do you suggest....a warning before each ad saying "If you don't have photo ID, please do not watch or read this advertisement". You have totally lost it here.

It is even more outlandish to state that casinos advertise in such a way to "rip off" the "financially excluded". OMG. The well is running very dry when you have to come up with stuff like that.

Still, as usual, my typing is wasted, as you will not concede a point to anyone. I just hope it helps those who have common sense to understand the reality of the situation. Must be tough knowing everything, and believing that everyone else knows nothing.....it must be a big responsibility to educate an entire forum on one's own.

 

[dunover]

Look, for Pete's sake VWM - employers nowadays (honest ones) DO check licences, National Insurance cards, passports BEFORE you commence employment, mainly to check your credentials, and secondly to avoid the punitive fines for employing illegals or those ineligible to work in the UK.
This happens before you get any salary, same as casino winnings. I have had 2 redundancies in last 18 months, and in both cases my new employer took photo ID before commencing my new position.
If some people are reaching adulthood with no form of ID then it's a tiny minority.

And, the bottom line: EVERY casino has somewhere in its T&C's that they may or will require PHOTO ID at some stage.

AGAIN: READ THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE YOU DEPOSIT AND PLAY!!!!!!!!

 

[Jasminebed]

It's not only UK players that encounter this problem. Canada has no national ID card, and a driver's licence is not an option for everyone, and the cost of $150 to just get your learner's is fairly steep, and expires after just a year, although a renewal fee can be paid to give a new driver another year to feel prepared (or to come up with the money) to pay for the next testing stage.

Passport costs just rose to $120, and that doesn't include taxes, fees for a money order, and the cost of a photograph which needs to be taken at a properly licenced place. They did get caught up on what was a huge backlog a few years ago, and now most are back to you in around 3-4 weeks. These are good for 5 years. If you can travel to a passport office, you can pay additional fees and receive it sooner, in under a week, or even same day if you can provide airline tickets and yet more fees.

Even players with satisfactory ID can get asked for Notarized copies, which are fairly expensive here in Canada.

When I began gambling online, I did have government issued photo ID, it just wasn't a passport or driver's licence. Found out at one point that it wasn't acceptable to an online casino, although the matter was settled with a photo of me holding it.

I tried to get verified before playing most times after that. I was always prepared to go to the trouble and expense of getting a passport if I had a win large enough to warrant the cost.

Not everyone is a CM member. Adverts for online gaming are on TV and bus stops here too. I wonder how many players deposit $20 to try things, try for a modest withdrawal of $100 or so and just abandon it when their ID is refused? Or play it back hoping to get enough to make it worthwhile?

 

[dunover]

It's not only UK players that encounter this problem. Canada has no national ID card, and a driver's licence is not an option for everyone, and the cost of $150 to just get your learner's is fairly steep, and expires after just a year, although a renewal fee can be paid to give a new driver another year to feel prepared (or to come up with the money) to pay for the next testing stage.

Passport costs just rose to $120, and that doesn't include taxes, fees for a money order, and the cost of a photograph which needs to be taken at a properly licenced place. They did get caught up on what was a huge backlog a few years ago, and now most are back to you in around 3-4 weeks. These are good for 5 years. If you can travel to a passport office, you can pay additional fees and receive it sooner, in under a week, or even same day if you can provide airline tickets and yet more fees.

Even players with satisfactory ID can get asked for Notarized copies, which are fairly expensive here in Canada.

When I began gambling online, I did have government issued photo ID, it just wasn't a passport or driver's licence. Found out at one point that it wasn't acceptable to an online casino, although the matter was settled with a photo of me holding it.

I tried to get verified before playing most times after that. I was always prepared to go to the trouble and expense of getting a passport if I had a win large enough to warrant the cost.

Not everyone is a CM member. Adverts for online gaming are on TV and bus stops here too. I wonder how many players deposit $20 to try things, try for a modest withdrawal of $100 or so and just abandon it when their ID is refused? Or play it back hoping to get enough to make it worthwhile?

You make it sound like it's a ploy by the casinos to entrap players' cash. It exists simply because the LGA's stipulate it. I bet it's quite a hassle for the casinos too as well as the players. And in the example you quote, I'd say a minority of casinos would actually demand ID for a small transaction like that. Many casinos will pay UK players without ID for the first 3k of withdrawals before they request it, at the last moment because at that point of 3k they are obliged to.

You don't have to be a CM member to appreciate T&C's either - there are many instances outside gambling where the purchaser needs to read the terms, and advice to do so is everywhere.

 

[Borgie]

In this time the OP has taken to argue his case over here he could have had his Driving License, so I think he should instead just give up explaining to them the various reasons he doesnt have a ID and make a Driving License/Passport as this would help him in future online gambling aswell. If he can't do that he should refrain from playing online. Common sense should always prevail

Need to be careful here a lot of Casinos do not accept provisional licenses needs to be a full licence - learning to drive may take time

 

[Mouche12]

It has been said before (VWM of course). Players should be asked to upload their documents for verification before being allowed to make a deposit. Maxino and some other casinos already have this upload option available. It only requires a fast response from the casino since no deposits will be accepted before the account has been verified.

 

[chuchu59]

You make it sound like it's a ploy by the casinos to entrap players' cash. It exists simply because the LGA's stipulate it. I bet it's quite a hassle for the casinos too as well as the players. And in the example you quote, I'd say a minority of casinos would actually demand ID for a small transaction like that. Many casinos will pay UK players without ID for the first 3k of withdrawals before they request it, at the last moment because at that point of 3k they are obliged to.

You don't have to be a CM member to appreciate T&C's either - there are many instances outside gambling where the purchaser needs to read the terms, and advice to do so is everywhere.

While its a stipulation by the LGA it does seem some casinos will gleefully implement it. The industry as a whole should learn to appreciate that there are a host of reasons gamers choose to play online and less hassles is definitely one of them. ID verification should only be used to protect casinos from fraud but there are many casinos who conveniently use ID as a barricade knowing fully well that there will be some players with difficulties in meeting their requirements. I believe the casinos should, before accepting players from a certain jurisdiction, examine the types of ID docs, passports etc. Should ID cards not be compulsory in a certain place they must think hard on whether players from that jurisdiction is accepted lest problems emerge from verification at a later stage.

 

[Nifty29]

It has been said before (VWM of course). Players should be asked to upload their documenthey or verification before being allowed to make a deposit. Maxino and some other casinos already have this upload option available. It only requires a fast response from the casino since no deposits will be accepted before the account has been verified.

*Sigh*

We've been through all this

Pre-verification is a great idea....but unworkable on a large scale. Once a casino insists on ID before deposit, they are going to be inundated with hundreds or even thousands of ID docs which will need to be carefully screened and processed manually, which would mean HUGE delays. How many players would be okay with "Thanks for submitting your docs. Please allow 7-10 business days for your account to be enabled for play"?

Either all casinos do it all at once, or nobody will, because the ones that do would be turning away hordes of customers who will not be prepared to send docs before they deposit or play. We have had polls in the past where many players don't want to send docs in before they cashout, and certainly not before they deposit.

It just cannot work in a practical sense. Still, don't take my word for it, ask some reps why they don't insist on docs before deposit. I know you believe 100% of everything a certain poster says/invents, but you really should start thinking for yourself and realising that we don't live in utopia.

 

[Mouche12]

Well Nifty, they can employ more staff - or outsource the ID checking process, why not? It's also very effective against possible frauds.

 

[chuchu59]

Well Nifty, they can employ more staff - or outsource the ID checking process, why not? It's also very effective against possible frauds.

Not entirely workable as operating costs will escalate and this will in turn be borne by the customers. They could even charge for deposits by imposing a small % and the same applied for withdrawals too. I believe it would be better to set up a link to the specific term on verification prior to the first withdrawal which must be clicked on before completion of registration.

 

[Nifty29]

Well Nifty, they can employ more staff - or outsource the ID checking process, why not? It's also very effective against possible frauds.

Why should casinos employ more staff ( they would need a LOT more BTW to have it done in any reasonable timeframe) to cater for an INCREDIBLY TINY proportion of players that cannot ID themselves? It is ridiculous, and just doesn't pass the cost vs outcome test in any way, shape of form.

Insofar as outsourcing....you would be happy to have all your ID sent to some other company that you don't have an account or relationship with, and probably don't even know their location or name? I wouldn't, and I doubt many other would either. Also, this would not be cheap.

Either of these options COST MONEY and TAKE TIME. Even if casinos could lower the delay down to 24-48 hours, it would still turn huge numbers of customers away. Given the choice between a casino that I can deposit with immediately, and provide ID at cashout, and a casino where I need to provide ID after/during registration AND wait days before I can play, I would choose the former every time....and as polls here have shown, so would most players. I mean, you might not even LIKE the casino and might never be in a position to cash out, so why would you want to bother submitting ID docs and waiting days or weeks when it might never be needed? It is silly.

As I said, either the whole industry has to do it simultaneously, or none of them will. Operators make money on volume, and alienating a large chunk of the playing community from the get-go is commercial suicide.

It might reduce the amount of ID fraud.....but then again the current system does it just as well. The only difference is that the fraudsters can play first before they get caught. The detection methods would be the same in either scenario, so they will not be detecting MORE fraud. Yes, it might DETER fraudsters, but it also deters hordes of genuine players, so the net benefit would be a LOSS rather than a gain for the casino.

The way it stands, casinos can process ID in a "drip feed" way i.e. as cashouts are made, and keep the delays for players to a minimum. Why anyone would want to change that to make the process a whole lot longer and more inconvenient, I just do not know. It certainly is not worthwhile just for a TINY number of players from the UK or wherever who cannot (or usually will not) provide sufficient ID.

As dunover said....READ the terms before you play. If you do NOT have the ID that is expected, then DO NOT PLAY.

I will tell you, if I needed to purchase a $100 ID card from the government etc to meet ID requirements for online casinos, I would do it in a flash if it meant no more ID hassles. I've seen people in this forum who have been members quite a while and have been playing quite a while who STILL have issues with ID because they will not obtain what is required. A total newb I could understand, but not those who know the ropes.

Sorry mouche, but your guru has got it wrong once again.

 

[Blathaon]

Why should casinos employ more staff ( they would need a LOT more BTW to have it done in any reasonable timeframe) to cater for an INCREDIBLY TINY proportion of players that cannot ID themselves? It is ridiculous, and just doesn't pass the cost vs outcome test in any way, shape of form.

Insofar as outsourcing....you would be happy to have all your ID sent to some other company that you don't have an account or relationship with, and probably don't even know their location or name? I wouldn't, and I doubt many other would either. Also, this would not be cheap.

Either of these options COST MONEY and TAKE TIME. Even if casinos could lower the delay down to 24-48 hours, it would still turn huge numbers of customers away. Given the choice between a casino that I can deposit with immediately, and provide ID at cashout, and a casino where I need to provide ID after/during registration AND wait days before I can play, I would choose the former every time....and as polls here have shown, so would most players. I mean, you might not even LIKE the casino and might never be in a position to cash out, so why would you want to bother submitting ID docs and waiting days or weeks when it might never be needed? It is silly.

As I said, either the whole industry has to do it simultaneously, or none of them will. Operators make money on volume, and alienating a large chunk of the playing community from the get-go is commercial suicide.

It might reduce the amount of ID fraud.....but then again the current system does it just as well. The only difference is that the fraudsters can play first before they get caught. The detection methods would be the same in either scenario, so they will not be detecting MORE fraud. Yes, it might DETER fraudsters, but it also deters hordes of genuine players, so the net benefit would be a LOSS rather than a gain for the casino.

The way it stands, casinos can process ID in a "drip feed" way i.e. as cashouts are made, and keep the delays for players to a minimum. Why anyone would want to change that to make the process a whole lot longer and more inconvenient, I just do not know. It certainly is not worthwhile just for a TINY number of players from the UK or wherever who cannot (or usually will not) provide sufficient ID.

As dunover said....READ the terms before you play. If you do NOT have the ID that is expected, then DO NOT PLAY.

I will tell you, if I needed to purchase a $100 ID card from the government etc to meet ID requirements for online casinos, I would do it in a flash if it meant no more ID hassles. I've seen people in this forum who have been members quite a while and have been playing quite a while who STILL have issues with ID because they will not obtain what is required. A total newb I could understand, but not those who know the ropes.

Sorry mouche, but your guru has got it wrong once again.

I agree, besides there is nothing stopping you from opening an account at a casino then send your documents and wait until they are verified or rejected before you deposit.
I have personally had ONE issue with ID because i don't have a Driver's license or a passport.
Norway doesn't have national ID cards, the banks provide this service with the Bank cards with ID, Photo, signature and personal number(number given to you at birth from the government).

I could of course go and get a passport, but since i don't travel i haven't bothered.
The only place i had a problem was at Betfred, and only after having been a player there for six months. Aaron the rep here at CM was able to make the security department see logic and sort it out.

If i ever get in a position where i win big and a casino demand a passport then i will get one, but since this hasn't been a real issue yet i haven't bothered.
I always send scans of my bank card, skrill account, bank statement and an utility bill, this is usually enough.

And to everyone who screams for more regulation and can't wait until the UK opens . Really whenever you involve the government in anything you create higher cost of doing business, more unnecessary hoops to jump through and lower quality of service and less choice. After all it is the current regulation that has created the need for the ID checks that exists now.

 

[zebedy]

I remember one of my first posts at CM was about this very issue

What i dont understand and probably never will is why casino's ask for a Photo ID when they never actually check that its the actual person in the photo especially when casino's can and do identify you by other means,

Its a pity that harry casino doesn't have a rep here as it would probably be sorted out fairly quickly,
When ive had a problem with my ID i have contacted the rep and its been sorted but that doesn't help newbies or people who dont know about CM
cupcake75 Try and get someone from management to contact you if you haven't already done so as sometimes support work off a script or haven't been taught what forms of ID are issued in the UK,
I once supplied my Birth Certificate to a casino and was told by support that they dont accept scribble written on a piece of paper


As nifty pointed out in another thread this should be every players No 2 on the to do list after checking a casino is/isnt rogue and deciding to deposit.

1. If one READS the terms in relation to ID (which sensible people do) and notices that they do NOT have the required docs, they should either contact the casino BEFORE playing to see if what they DO have is sufficient, OR get the required ID, OR DON'T PLAY.

 

[rockycatt]

*Sigh*

We've been through all this

Pre-verification is a great idea....but unworkable on a large scale. Once a casino insists on ID before deposit, they are going to be inundated with hundreds or even thousands of ID docs which will need to be carefully screened and processed manually, which would mean HUGE delays. How many players would be okay with "Thanks for submitting your docs. Please allow 7-10 business days for your account to be enabled for play"?

Either all casinos do it all at once, or nobody will, because the ones that do would be turning away hordes of customers who will not be prepared to send docs before they deposit or play. We have had polls in the past where many players don't want to send docs in before they cashout, and certainly not before they deposit.

It just cannot work in a practical sense. Still, don't take my word for it, ask some reps why they don't insist on docs before deposit. I know you believe 100% of everything a certain poster says/invents, but you really should start thinking for yourself and realising that we don't live in utopia.

"Thanks for submitting your docs. Please allow 7-10 business days for your account to be enabled for play"? = if it takes this long to examine docs how long will it take to process a payment

ive had my docs pre approved in 4 hours at accredited casino's here

 

[Nifty29]

"Thanks for submitting your docs. Please allow 7-10 business days for your account to be enabled for play"? = if it takes this long to examine docs how long will it take to process a payment

ive had my docs pre approved in 4 hours at accredited casino's here

When you are number 2000 in the pile, it is quite possible.

If you use common sense, obviously it doesn't take that long to examine documents...it will just take that long to GET to your docs after all the players before you that signed up etc. Its the reason why it just won't work, which is the point I was making.

You're totally missing the point rocky. Casinos can do it in 4 hrs when they are only getting small amounts at a time...multiply that by 100 if everyone has to send their docs at once and you will understand.

 

[rockycatt]

When you are number 2000 in the pile, it is quite possible.

If you use common sense, obviously it doesn't take that long to examine documents...it will just take that long to GET to your docs after all the players before you that signed up etc. Its the reason why it just won't work, which is the point I was making.

You're totally missing the point rocky. Casinos can do it in 4 hrs when they are only getting small amounts at a time...multiply that by 100 if everyone has to send their docs at once and you will understand.

with all do respect nifty do you think that there are 2000 applicants at one time especially of late I personally think that proof of id should come first, at brick and motor you need to show a id to sign up for a comp card and no problem there with time

respectfully R C

 

[Nifty29]

with all do respect nifty do you think that there are 2000 applicants at one time especially of late I personally think that proof of id should come first, at brick and motor you need to show a id to sign up for a comp card and no problem there with time

respectfully R C

Absolutely....especially at a new casino.

Also, they don't have to be in one day either. Considering it takes up to 24-48hrs now, when there is a trickle of docs, imagine the delay if there were 10x that amount (practically it would be much higher).

Land based casinos are irrelevant. Totally different....for one, you are physically present and your ID is sighted and approved in real time, which is completely impossible online.

Respectfully rocky, it makes absolutely no sense to say "well proof of ID should come first" whilst ignoring the practicalities of implementing such a scheme. If you have a better way, then let's hear it....otherwise it is just burying ones head in the sand.

 

[Jasminebed]

How about requiring ID before an introductory free chip? So many casinos offer them anyway.

People would wait for a NDB.

This is what many fraudsters target, the multi-accounters. It should deter a lot of them.

I always thought Bet365's method of accepting first deposit and sending a snail mail before accepting a second one was a pretty good compromise. Satisfies address verification, an issue a lot of people run into problems with if bills are not in their name or are e-statements. I assume this also gives them some behind the scenes time to conduct ID checks.

Bet365 did complete a second bit of KYC with me by asking if they could telephone me when I was dealing with an issue with support anyway.

 

[dunover]

While its a stipulation by the LGA it does seem some casinos will gleefully implement it. The industry as a whole should learn to appreciate that there are a host of reasons gamers choose to play online and less hassles is definitely one of them. ID verification should only be used to protect casinos from fraud but there are many casinos who conveniently use ID as a barricade knowing fully well that there will be some players with difficulties in meeting their requirements. I believe the casinos should, before accepting players from a certain jurisdiction, examine the types of ID docs, passports etc. Should ID cards not be compulsory in a certain place they must think hard on whether players from that jurisdiction is accepted lest problems emerge from verification at a later stage.

Yes, I get your logic here, but again it comes down to due diligence - if you join a reputable site, they won't use ID verification as a stick to beat you with. Those that do aren't usually on the accredited list.

 

[aceking123]

Yes, I get your logic here, but again it comes down to due diligence - if you join a reputable site, they won't use ID verification as a stick to beat you with. Those that do aren't usually on the accredited list.

wrong mr green is

 

[dunover]

wrong mr green is

Note I said not usually.

 

[hakapuku]

One of the many ways that casinos use to improve their cash flow.
Actually in many countries people only need passport if they plan to travel abroad. But Betsson group wants to change that global practice: now you also need to have a passport if you want to play at Betsson online casinos.

 

[zebedy]

wrong mr green is

Been watching to much Star wars you have

 

[vinylweatherman]

Look, for Pete's sake VWM - employers nowadays (honest ones) DO check licences, National Insurance cards, passports BEFORE you commence employment, mainly to check your credentials, and secondly to avoid the punitive fines for employing illegals or those ineligible to work in the UK.
This happens before you get any salary, same as casino winnings. I have had 2 redundancies in last 18 months, and in both cases my new employer took photo ID before commencing my new position.
If some people are reaching adulthood with no form of ID then it's a tiny minority.

And, the bottom line: EVERY casino has somewhere in its T&C's that they may or will require PHOTO ID at some stage.

AGAIN: READ THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE YOU DEPOSIT AND PLAY!!!!!!!!

Exactly, EVERYONE of working age has a National Insurance number, but this is NOT acceptable to casinos because our National insurance scheme doesn't operate the way they want it to, but it's fine for the UK. One only needs a photo ID when applying for work if one has no National Insurance number. Unlike the rest of us, immigrants ARE provided with an ID card with a photo, so that their use of services and benefits can be policed according to their status. It also shows whether or not they have permission to work whilst their fate is being determined.

If we are born here, our fate is determined, we can stay as long as we like and work, so don't need anything other than a National Insurance number and a birth certificate. We don't even need the documents, as giving the National insurance number gives an employer all they need to correctly add one to the payroll.


If we had photo National Insurance cards, we would effectively have a national ID card that casinos could accept.

The need for a photo stuck on it is the big problem, yet as this is a remote industry, it isn't something that can be checked as photo ID only works when checked in person, such as on entry to a land casino. A photo should not be necessary online, ANY document can be examined for authenticity. Casinos don't make a fuss about the utility bill having a photo on it, but the companies just print the whole thing on standard A4 printer paper, and anyone with a half decent printer could fake a utility bill for a given address. I can't see how such a document can be authenticated, it's on plain paper, unlike all the security markings one finds on other documents.

I don't think any of this is much of a deterrent to the dedicated fraudsters at all, they know how to get around it, and from what I have read it isn't hard once you are put in contact with the "right people".

The argument that it has to be done because the LGA say so is also a great argument in support of the new UK regulations that will make the UK regulators the police of the system, not the LGA. At least then UK players who feel they have been given the runaround with their documents could complain to UK authorities, which will look for a way through the "red tape", rather than stonewall the player as some casinos do.

 

[skiny]

It would be great if everyone had pre-verified ID before trying to make a withdrawal and of course the way to do that would be to have your docs verified at the time of sign up. The reality is that most people don't want to wait for docs to be verified to make a deposit. In fact most people are far more patient when waiting to make a withdrawal than they are when waiting to make a deposit. Most people are willing to wait a few days to get paid if the casino is in the process of verifying ID. Most people won't want to wait a few days to be allowed to deposit. When I decide I want to gamble I want to gamble now. Not three days from now. If only some casinos require ID to be verified before depositing that will put many players off from joining. Why not join a casino that lets you play right away?

Something to keep in mind. In most cases a reputable casino will verify your ID in a timely manner and you really should have it verified as soon as possible. Even if you don't win on your first deposit you can still send in your docs. A rogue casino can easily verify your ID so you can deposit and then suspiciously find something wrong with it after you win. There's a reason these casinos are called "rogue." Having your ID pre-verified is no guarantee that you'll get paid.

 

[Nifty29]

Exactly, EVERYONE of working age has a National Insurance number, but this is NOT acceptable to casinos because our National insurance scheme doesn't operate the way they want it to, but it's fine for the UK. One only needs a photo ID when applying for work if one has no National Insurance number. Unlike the rest of us, immigrants ARE provided with an ID card with a photo, so that their use of services and benefits can be policed according to their status. It also shows whether or not they have permission to work whilst their fate is being determined.

If we are born here, our fate is determined, we can stay as long as we like and work, so don't need anything other than a National Insurance number and a birth certificate. We don't even need the documents, as giving the National insurance number gives an employer all they need to correctly add one to the payroll.


If we had photo National Insurance cards, we would effectively have a national ID card that casinos could accept.

The need for a photo stuck on it is the big problem, yet as this is a remote industry, it isn't something that can be checked as photo ID only works when checked in person, such as on entry to a land casino. A photo should not be necessary online, ANY document can be examined for authenticity. Casinos don't make a fuss about the utility bill having a photo on it, but the companies just print the whole thing on standard A4 printer paper, and anyone with a half decent printer could fake a utility bill for a given address. I can't see how such a document can be authenticated, it's on plain paper, unlike all the security markings one finds on other documents.

I don't think any of this is much of a deterrent to the dedicated fraudsters at all, they know how to get around it, and from what I have read it isn't hard once you are put in contact with the "right people".

The argument that it has to be done because the LGA say so is also a great argument in support of the new UK regulations that will make the UK regulators the police of the system, not the LGA. At least then UK players who feel they have been given the runaround with their documents could complain to UK authorities, which will look for a way through the "red tape", rather than stonewall the player as some casinos do.

The UK laws will make ZERO difference in reality.

Casinos DO NOT HAVE TO accept every person as a player.

Add to that the relatively small number of casinos who are going to be prepared to signup and pay 15% of their turnover (IIRC) in fees, and you will STILL have a restricted choice for those without photo ID.....just like now. Do you have the final signed legislation where it says expressly that online casinos registered in the UK MUST accept whatever ID the player can provide? I just don't see it. If casinos read that they have to accept lower standards of ID, they may well decide it is enough to keep them away from UK licensing. You don't...and I don't. One thing I DO know is that operators will not be prepared to sacrifice their ID standards.

On the plus side, there may well be a way provided by the UKGC for casinos registered and licenced to confirm ID of UK citizens without need for sending of ID. Great! Awesome! Problem solved. However, I think you are overestimating the number of operators who are going to pay for a UK licence.

It may well be that the big operators who DO obtain a licence are the ones who are already flexible in this regard, so as I said, the reality will be little if any change for those poor 28 players....

Oh BTW....

I am still waiting for all those examples of players here at CM remaining unpaid because their UK ID wasn't/isn't good enough. Having trouble finding them are we??

 

[sparkz]

The thing I never quite understand is why people's answer seems to be "well go and get a birth certificate".

Even minus the financial cost it's not that easy.

In fact I can't actually get a passport for 1 main reason... "Counter signatures". As per the government's website:

"The countersignatory must:

have known the person applying for at least 2 years
be able to identify the person applying, eg they’re a friend, neighbour or colleague (not just someone who knows them professionally)
They can’t be closely related or involved with the person applying, eg:

related by birth or marriage
be in a relationship or live at the same address as the person applying"

I no longer have friends or anyone I have known for 2 years. The other part of the list was people such as dr, solicitor, teacher.... I don't have a set dr (Havent been for years), no solicitor and im not in education so no teacher.

Even if I managed to have it counter signed, I still need to wait 2 weeks to be called for an interview. The interview place in £60 return on the train. After a month later when I receive my passport I would of spent around £200.

A big difference from the "if I needed to purchase a $100 ID card from the government etc to meet ID requirements for online casinos, I would do it in a flash"... $100 = £60

The thing is, many casinos will accept birth certificate, so if they can do it, why not the rest?