Bonus Complaint Titan Terms and Conditions

[kakata]

Hey, Kakata, I know off topic, but what do the 3 PABs in your public profile mean? Is that how many times you have PAB and the one with the X is closed and the other two are open?

On topic, I'm surprised the rep hasn't come into this thread and chimmed in. He must certainly feel People are trying to destroy his casino's good name, afterall.

I honestly dont know.....I assume Ive had 3 PAB...noone is open tho....and all of the ones ive had have been successfully resolved

 

[Jasminebed]

In not closing accounts when requested they are not doing their duty to help self exclude players who may have a problem with gambling either. Just sayin....

There have been other threads where players have found a ban as a problem gambler when all they requested was an account closure. I would suggest when you request an account closure, that you either provide them with an answer as to their terms and conditions, or a non committal response like I am not happy here. I closed an account at Ladbrookes because the currency exchange factor was not working for me, and I let them know why. I know that if I ever feel differently, I may return.

If you do not provide a reason, there sometimes seems to be a feeling that the only possible way you could choose to quit their casino is because you have a gambling problem. If you think the slots are "tight", or rigged, or luck is not with you, you have a gambling problem in the absence of other information.

I haven't closed my account at Casino Titan, but if someone chooses to based on the terms in my OP, I suggest that they inform management that this unfair term is at least part of the reason.

On topic, I'm surprised the rep hasn't come into this thread and chimmed in. He must certainly feel People are trying to destroy his casino's good name, afterall.

Takethemoney, I am not out to take anyone's good name. I did not write those terms. And I informed Paultitan, the rep on this board immediately after posting. I did not write to say I would, I didn't haul out the Casinomeister name, but informed the Casino Titan rep and CM himself about this outlandish term for an Accredited Casino

 

[Lucky Loser]

I play at Titan all the time and put alot of money through their machines. If they ever enforce this term it will be the last time I ever play there.

The term is a complete disgrace and the casino should be ashamed of itself. In my opinion Casinomeister accreditation should be removed until it is changed.

 

[takethemoney]

There have been other threads where players have found a ban as a problem gambler when all they requested was an account closure. I would suggest when you request an account closure, that you either provide them with an answer as to their terms and conditions, or a non committal response like I am not happy here. I closed an account at Ladbrookes because the currency exchange factor was not working for me, and I let them know why. I know that if I ever feel differently, I may return.

If you do not provide a reason, there sometimes seems to be a feeling that the only possible way you could choose to quit their casino is because you have a gambling problem. If you think the slots are "tight", or rigged, or luck is not with you, you have a gambling problem in the absence of other information.

I haven't closed my account at Casino Titan, but if someone chooses to based on the terms in my OP, I suggest that they inform management that this unfair term is at least part of the reason.



Takethemoney, I am not out to take anyone's good name. I did not write those terms. And I informed Paultitan, the rep on this board immediately after posting. I did not write to say I would, I didn't haul out the Casinomeister name, but informed the Casino Titan rep and CM himself about this outlandish term for an Accredited Casino

Jasminebed, much of my post was tongue in cheek, or in jest. Please don't be uptight about it. I was not happy with Casino Titan and requested my account be closed. I told them why. They did not comply, nor did they acknowlege my email. Frankly I don't give a damn what they think about what I post, as I will never play there again.

 

[jelsmith]

2 days and a request to live chat an email to account manager and reg CS and MY ACCOUNT IS STILL OPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[chuchu59]

I play at Titan all the time and put alot of money through their machines. If they ever enforce this term it will be the last time I ever play there.

The term is a complete disgrace and the casino should be ashamed of itself. In my opinion Casinomeister accreditation should be removed until it is changed.

Yes, this ridiculous term deems them not worthy of accreditation status. Maybe the Rival websites should be redirected to Titan instead of Manhattan Slots as they have similar terms although the Rival ones are hidden.

 

[Jasminebed]

Yes, this ridiculous term deems them not worthy of accreditation status. Maybe the Rival websites should be redirected to Titan instead of Manhattan Slots as they have similar terms although the Rival ones are hidden.

I believe it was John when he was with TIV that stated that play of 30 percent beyond the WR to continue to receive bonuses. They were not using it as an excuse to confiscate winnings.

Casinos are free to withdraw promotions from players they consider bonus hunters, or even to refuse their custom altogether. They are not free to confiscate funds won legitimately, no matter what their terms IMO.

 

[all4greed]

I believe it was John when he was with TIV that stated that play of 30 percent beyond the WR to continue to receive bonuses. They were not using it as an excuse to confiscate winnings.

Casinos are free to withdraw promotions from players they consider bonus hunters, or even to refuse their custom altogether. They are not free to confiscate funds won legitimately, no matter what their terms IMO.

So for a $100 deposit, $100 bonus, 20x wagering:

$200 (total) x 20 (WR) = $4,000 (Total WR)
$4,000 (Total WR) x .30 (additional 30%) = $1,200 (additional BS wagering)
$5,200 total wagering required to receive future bonuses

Of course you could bust in that additional 30% requirement. But then you could get more bonuses!

 

[Lucky Loser]

Adding 30% on top is a bit rough. Completing Titan bonuses is currently very tough at 25X D&B.

It might be time for me to find another RTG. I already think their RTP is set as low as possible because my money often lasts much longer at other casinos without bonuses.

 

[all4greed]

They sent me a promo for today. Forgot the bonuses can't be withdrawn.

3. This casino coupon bonus is a play bonus and cannot be redeemed for cash or withdrawn.

Makes their offers even more worthless...

 

[PaulTitan]

Hi

I would like to clarify that this term is not meant to be enforced in 99% of the cases and we have never enforced it in the past. There are some cases of fraud that the casino identifies and we wanted to protect ourselves within the terms.

Having said that, we understand this term is read incorrectly and we will take it out of our t&c this upcoming week.

I would like to thank you all for pointing us to this issue, your feedback is valuable to us -and we are dynamic to implement changes when needed.

Have a blessed week.

Paul.

 

[maxd]

Hey, Kakata, I know off topic, but what do the 3 PABs in your public profile mean?....

I honestly dont know.....I assume Ive had 3 PAB...noone is open tho....and all of the ones ive had have been successfully resolved

See the first post in this thread: PAB listings in user profiles.

 

[Jasminebed]

54. The casino reserves the right to review transaction records and logs from time to time, for any reason whatsoever. Players, who endeavor only to meet minimum play through requirements of a given bonus, exhibiting "bonus hunter" characteristics, will have their accounts automatically flagged and audited, should the security department determine that a new player account was set-up solely to exploit this bonus. If it appears that player/s are participating in strategies that the casino in its sole discretion deems to be abusive, the casino reserves the right to revoke the entitlement of such player to the promotion and the player"s bonus money, any winnings gained under this promotion and their deposit returned may be forfeit.
55. Abuse includes but not being limited to the following: Any irregular playing patterns e.g. playing at intentional minimum risk - equal, zero margin bets or hedge betting. Claiming a bonus and asking for cash out without a fair amount of play. Making high bets (on the sum of more than 30% of their bonus balance) from your account balance, where that balances is made up of bonus balance. Creating more than one account per person and using these accounts as fraudulent accounts in an attempt to claim our bonuses more than once. Placing high bets (while playing with bonus) in an attempt to generate high balance. Once achieved, changing betting patterns into small bets in order to fulfill wagering requirements and still keep high balance available for cash in (e.g. player places $25 bets and win $5k , then changes to $0.5 bets until wagering requirements achieved).

Titan Casino, it's been over two weeks since my original post, and the week that PaulTitan promised a change in this ROGUE term has gone by also without any change to the offending term.

It's not good enough to come here at CM and promise changes without making good on them. The timeframe you outlined is over, and IMO even the length of time it took to respond with a false promise was too long.

 

[PaulTitan]

HI

the term have been changed already few days ago ( within the time frame i gave) .


Regards

Paul.

 

[maxd]

As I see it the Terms currently read:

54. The casino reserves the right to review transaction records and logs from time to time, for any reason whatsoever. Players, who endeavor only to meet minimum play through requirements of a given bonus, exhibiting "bonus hunter" characteristics, will have their accounts automatically flagged and audited, should the security department determine that a new player account was set-up solely to exploit this bonus. If it appears that player/s are participating in strategies that the casino in its sole discretion deems to be abusive, the casino reserves the right to revoke the entitlement of such player to the promotion and the player"s bonus money, any winnings gained under this promotion and their deposit returned may be forfeit.
55. Abuse includes but not being limited to the following: Any irregular playing patterns e.g. playing at intentional minimum risk - equal, zero margin bets or hedge betting. Claiming a bonus and asking for cash out without a fair amount of play. Making high bets (on the sum of more than 30% of their bonus balance) from your account balance, where that balances is made up of bonus balance. Creating more than one account per person and using these accounts as fraudulent accounts in an attempt to claim our bonuses more than once. Placing high bets (while playing with bonus) in an attempt to generate high balance. Once achieved, changing betting patterns into small bets in order to fulfill wagering requirements and still keep high balance available for cash in (e.g. player places $25 bets and win $5k , then changes to $0.5 bets until wagering requirements achieved).

In a side-by-side comparison I didn't see any changes.

FWIW, another Term that they've just changed, §16, is showing a change from as recently as this morning.

 

[PaulTitan]

FYI:

the old term was "Claiming a bonus and asking for cash out without a fair amount of play (asking for cash out right after finishing the wagering)."

the new term is "Claiming a bonus and asking for cash out without a fair amount of play."

again, we are not going to enforce it in 99% of times, but here is a scenario:

player is claiming a 100% bonus and deposit $20.
now he plays and loose most of his balance so his current balance will be less then $1. ( after lets say he wagered $200 out of his $1000 total wr)

his bonus balance will than convert to real cash and his wagering will be zeroed ( although he didn't finish the WR - but since his balance is less then $1 it will happen).

now lets say the player got a feature and raised his balance to $200.

he have wagered $201 out of his $1000 total wr, but the full balance is showing in the withdrawal balance ( and not in bonus balance).

Should the casino request the player to demonstrate fair amount of play and finish his supposed wr?

The answer is yes.

I hope this is clear, if not i can try and clarify again.

Regards,

Paul.

 

[kakata]

See the first post in this thread: PAB listings in user profiles.

well....I dont recall to have lost a case to an accredited casino.....
BTW thanks for helping me undearsteand the symbols.

 

[maxd]

well....I dont recall to have lost a case to an accredited casino...

I'll dig up the details and forward them to you.

Later: those details have been forwarded to you via PM.

 

[Jasminebed]

How about something as clear as A player must complete wagering to cashout.

IMO you need to get rid of the term that allows you to confiscate winnings and deposit based on your idea of "a fair amount of play".

Given the scenario you outlined, your response to that player should be a polite email explaining that $799 of the WR remains to be played before requesting a cashout, and that the requested withdrawal of $201 has been returned to his account.

Explain that the software automatically removes the WR from the cashier, but it must be completed before requesting a withdrawal, and that they may check with CS to see if wagering has been completed, and then wish them good luck.

Let's say this player got to $201, but is not there checking the cashier every few minutes. So they get up to about $800 in wagering, have $500 in their account, and when they go to the cashier see it as withdrawable. The request a withdrawal under the impression that it is possible because of a flaw in the way your cashier handles WRs.

So under your current term, you can confiscate their winnings AND their deposit? Or they complete $1001 of wagering, and you don't feel this is "fair" (a very subjective term) you are entitled to confiscate their deposit and winnings? Cash is tight at the casino? Maybe $2000 is fair from your side.

 

[Eagle]

What Jasmine says makes pefect sense to me!

 

[Jasminebed]

@PaulTitan:

Have you made any further revisions to your terms, or at least working on it? An update would be nice.

 

[mattsgame]

im reading this right?

FYI:

the old term was "Claiming a bonus and asking for cash out without a fair amount of play (asking for cash out right after finishing the wagering)."

the new term is "Claiming a bonus and asking for cash out without a fair amount of play."

again, we are not going to enforce it in 99% of times, but here is a scenario:

player is claiming a 100% bonus and deposit $20.
now he plays and loose most of his balance so his current balance will be less then $1. ( after lets say he wagered $200 out of his $1000 total wr)

his bonus balance will than convert to real cash and his wagering will be zeroed ( although he didn't finish the WR - but since his balance is less then $1 it will happen).

now lets say the player got a feature and raised his balance to $200.

he have wagered $201 out of his $1000 total wr, but the full balance is showing in the withdrawal balance ( and not in bonus balance).

Should the casino request the player to demonstrate fair amount of play and finish his supposed wr?

The answer is yes.

I hope this is clear, if not i can try and clarify again.

Regards,

Paul.

So if a players balance has fallen below $1 the casino reverts it to Cash because it is under $1.

Then is this not the casino's fault?

Most players would go on the cashier system to tell them when and if they have finished the WR. Thats the whole point of it being there is it not?

So in that case I say no the casino has no right to request a player to further play the WR, If the casino wants the WR met then why is it that the WR/Bonus $$ are not there until the player has busted out to zero?

I'm not a big bonus player so maybe I'm a bit ignorant in this area but it seems logical to me.

Cheers

Matt

Edit: should have read Jasminebed's post a little more.. this is practically what she said.

 

[Jasminebed]

Mattsgame, I believe the counter drops it when you dip under $1 so that unfulfilled (i.e. you lost) bonuses don't remain on your account if you don't bet the last few cents so that their wagering does not remain on your next deposit and/or bonus.

This is not exclusive to Casino Titan ASAIK, but comes as part of the RTG cashier programming.

That was just an example of why they might decide to confiscate winnings (which were not yet winnings in the scenario PaulTitan used to justify it).

 

[slafs]

Maybe a bit of a derail, but different RTGs have different "limits" to where the bonus is zero'ed out, some have under $1, others have less, even within the same group (CW vs Manhattan).

As far as I can understand, it is an informed choice by the casino to zero out bonus wagering requirements when the balance has dropped to a certain level. If they don't want these situations to happen, why not make the wagering dissapear when all the bonus tied money is lost?
</derail>

I am wondering the same as Jasmine - What is wrong with a straight-forward, clear term?

 

[dcpam39]

Maybe a bit of a derail, but different RTGs have different "limits" to where the bonus is zero'ed out, some have under $1, others have less, even within the same group (CW vs Manhattan).

Completely agree, i know that Inetbet zeros out when your balance is .10 or less.

Pam