Time To Ban The Feature Buy!

EkJR

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If you dont like the buy in feature don't play that slot simples, BGT wasn't the first either for that, there is another game out way before BGT that you can buy the feature on forget the name but its an elf based game with dropping wilds.

The ability to gamble the feature buy is of far bigger concern to me. On Chilli you pay say £100 for the feature, you can lose £100 instantly for 4 extra spins. It's just shit and a huge risk but you know you need to do it otherwise(perhaps) the payout will be dreadful.
 

trancemonkey

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So no RNG determines the first gamble of the slot, I.e 8 to 12? How is that determined? Or indeed the second gamble etc. It's all very confusing, need Einstein to work it all out for us

Why do you nees anyone to work it out. I explained it already. Each gamble calls the RNG for a result.
 

Scott1baird

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The ability to gamble the feature buy is of far bigger concern to me...

I know that but playing chilli without buy in you get around 30% real rtp if that's just doesn't play the same as bonanza. So I would rather risk say £20 on a buy in and hope I get lucky with a plus 4 or two.
 
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snorky510238

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Why do you nees anyone to work it out. I explained it already. Each gamble calls the RNG for a result.
Maybe but what is it selecting the result from? Just a simple win/lose or is it more complex?
 

EkJR

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Why do you nees anyone to work it out. I explained it already. Each gamble calls the RNG for a result.

We are going round in circles a bit. We already talked about the gamble from 12 to 16 being hard to get despite being 60/40. So are you saying it's treated like the other gambles, I.e truly random? The whole thing is massively complex, a lot more complex than you or BTG are making it out to be. Can anyone really say they make 6 in 10 of the 12 to 16 gambles? I assume on the RNG for the wheel it's either 1 or 2, win or lose. There are 6 1s and 4 2s, we are led to believe. The RNG has a much greater chance of landing a 1 than a 2 yet the game doesn't play that way.
 

snorky510238

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I have watched people gambling the feature and if your life depended on it you would not say it’s seems random or fair in anyway.
 

trancemonkey

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Maybe but what is it selecting the result from? Just a simple win/lose or is it more complex?

On the first gamble it's 50/50 and on the remainder it's 60/40. That's what BTG say anyway.... Although I'm not sure that's true. In fact I've just had a thought as to why that can't be true.... I need to think more about this.

But even if the odds aren't as displayed it's still only doing one call to the RNG to determine the win lose whatever the odds are.
 
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snorky510238

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I have seen plenty of people on the run from hell when gambling the feature but not one single video of someone winning every gamble that tells me more than enough.
 

EkJR

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You need what tested? Whether the odds are what they appear to be or whether the RNG makes one call per gamble?

The wheel odds. BTG have stated categorically that the odds quoted are right, this has been disputed all over the place.
 

trancemonkey

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The wheel odds. BTG have stated categorically that the odds quoted are right, this has been disputed all over the place.

I have a theory about this... I'm working on it. I will report back on any findings... But it might take a while
 

EkJR

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I have a theory about this... I'm working on it. I will report back on any findings... But it might take a while

This is from BTG when I argued the point elsewhere with them.

"There is no dispute in the math it's 60/40 in the players favour on each single spin after the initial spin from 8. What you need to remember is the odds roll. From the first spin to get to 24 is a 1 in 10 chance. However, if you get enough scatters to start at 20 then the single gamble is 60/40 in your favour, these are the hard stats for getting 24 spins:

0.5 x 0.6 x 0.6 x 0.6 = 0.108 or 1 in 1"
 

trancemonkey

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This is from BTG when I argued the point elsewhere with them.

"There is no dispute in the math it's 60/40 in the players favour on each single spin after the initial spin from 8. What you need to remember is the odds roll. From the first spin to get to 24 is a 1 in 10 chance. However, if you get enough scatters to start at 20 then the single gamble is 60/40 in your favour, these are the hard stats for getting 24 spins:

0.5 x 0.6 x 0.6 x 0.6 = 0.108 or 1 in 1"

I didn't think that was the issue .. I thought the issue is that players don't believe it's 50/50 or 60/40
 

EkJR

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I didn't think that was the issue .. I thought the issue is that players don't believe it's 50/50 or 60/40

Yes it's the same thing really. I asked them about the wheel odds and that's what they have said. Players in the main don't not believe these are the true odds. I think the 8 to 12 is a true gamble, the gamble from 12 to 16 is not for me anywhere near 60/40
 

sledge13

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To be able to lose when buying a feature not once but yes TWICE and most of the time is just sickness on BTG, they literally laughing at us for playing their slots.
 

dunover

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This is from BTG when I argued the point elsewhere with them.

"There is no dispute in the math it's 60/40 in the players favour on each single spin after the initial spin from 8. What you need to remember is the odds roll. From the first spin to get to 24 is a 1 in 10 chance. However, if you get enough scatters to start at 20 then the single gamble is 60/40 in your favour, these are the hard stats for getting 24 spins:

0.5 x 0.6 x 0.6 x 0.6 = 0.108 or 1 in 1"


Yes, we've been through that and BTG confirmed it, that it's just over a 1/9 chance of 24 spins. Indeed from testing the game I'd say that's pretty much spot-on.
The first 50-50 gamble though is totally misleading IMO and cannot be a true 50-50 for two reasons:

Firstly, it needs to account for the frequency of 4-scatter triggers on the purchase spin which start you on 12 anyway.
Secondly, achieving 12+ spins opens up the 60-40 gambles and from 12 spins onwards you are essentially procuring spins with a far higher average return given the effect of the increasing multiplier up to that point.

So I agree that the terminal 24 spins is OK but in between a 3-scatter trigger and getting there the graphics aren't a stage-by-stage accurate representation, and I haven't heard of anybody testing the game in demo buying the feature and reporting around 50-50 on the 8-12 gamble over tens of tries.
 

nikantw

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So I agree that the terminal 24 spins is OK but in between a 3-scatter trigger and getting there the graphics aren't a stage-by-stage accurate representation, and I haven't heard of anybody testing the game in demo buying the feature and reporting around 50-50 on the 8-12 gamble over tens of tries.

Fine, I will try to do it this weekend and let you know. :)
 
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