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This 'n That about Poker

Discussion in 'Casinomeister's Poker Room' started by johnsteed, Aug 9, 2009.

?

Who do you consider to be the 10 best live poker players in the world today?

  1. Phil Ivey

    12 vote(s)
    60.0%
  2. John Juanda

    4 vote(s)
    20.0%
  3. Patrick Antonius

    2 vote(s)
    10.0%
  4. Tom Dwan

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  5. J.C. Tran

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
  6. Erick Lindgren

    4 vote(s)
    20.0%
  7. Jeff Lisandro

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  8. Daniel Negreanu

    13 vote(s)
    65.0%
  9. Phil Hellmuth

    5 vote(s)
    25.0%
  10. Allen Cunningham

    6 vote(s)
    30.0%
  11. Ted Forrest

    5 vote(s)
    25.0%
  12. Peter Eastgate

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  13. Huck Seed

    4 vote(s)
    20.0%
  14. Robert Mizrachi

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  15. Scotty Nguyen

    9 vote(s)
    45.0%
  16. Jesus Ferguson

    2 vote(s)
    10.0%
  17. Mark Seif

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  18. Layne Flack

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  19. Greg Raymer

    4 vote(s)
    20.0%
  20. Kenny Tran

    2 vote(s)
    10.0%
  21. Gus Hansen

    5 vote(s)
    25.0%
  22. Bertrand Grospellier

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  23. Antonio Esfandiari

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  24. Scott Fischman

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  25. Annette Obrestad

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  26. Josh Arieh

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  27. Jason Bonomo

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  28. Carlose Mortensen

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  29. Joe Hachem

    2 vote(s)
    10.0%
  30. Todd Brunson

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  31. Brandon Cantu

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  32. Nenad Medic

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  33. Jeff Madsen

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  34. Vitaly Lunkin

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  35. Mike Matusow

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
  36. Freddy Deeb

    2 vote(s)
    10.0%
  37. Kathy Liebert

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
  38. Ivan Demidov

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
  39. Roland De Wolfe

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  40. Alexander Kravchenko

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  41. Kirk Morrison

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  42. Doyle Brunson

    5 vote(s)
    25.0%
  43. Jennifer Harman

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
  44. Lyle Berman

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  45. Sam Farha

    5 vote(s)
    25.0%
  46. Barry Greenstein

    6 vote(s)
    30.0%
  47. T.J. Cloutier

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  48. Hevad Khan

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  49. Joe Sebok

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  50. Other...

    3 vote(s)
    15.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
    Aug 9, 2009
  1. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
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    ***



    Hello fellow forum members! :)




    I just had some random thoughts about online poker, and poker on TV as well.



    I've been playing online poker, over the past couple of years (at least steadily, because I played a bit in years way back when), and I find that the competition is fierce. There aren't as many "donks" as there were in past years, and you have to be really sharp to come out ahead.



    I've read quite a few poker books, like Super System 1-2, Harrington on Hold'em, Cash Games, The Theory of Poker, The Poker Mindset, and Phil Gordon's Little Green Book. I find that Super System and Phil Gordon's books are the best to start off with, but the David Sklansky and Dan Harrington books are far more in-depth or precise with theirs teachings/theories/methods.



    There's a point at which - I found - that I've done much better, to just play the games that I'm most comfortable with. The books are great to go by, but in the long run, figuring-out which approach works best for me has proven to be more enjoyable and effective. I think about my online play (although I'm much better in a live game), and it's infinitely better than where I was at this point last year. I've played in so many sit&go tournaments, heads-up matches, cash games (where I really suck!), and of course, free rolls, that I was bound to improve sooner or later.



    I'm a pretty good tournament player, and although they're just free rolls, I usually make my way deep into the Pokerstars tournaments, and prior to that, the PrimaPoker free rolls; although these days they've been greatly reduced. I also do well at 5-seated sit&go NLTH tournaments, and find them to be incredible fun, and VERY rewarding if you have the patience to wait for good hands when you're not out-of-position, and wait long enough to get into the top-3 so as not to be left out of the money.



    I allow myself 20 tournaments per day, and record where I finished in the tournament, how much I won/lost, and if I finished-out of the money. I find when I play too tired, or when I'm on tilt, I'm no longer capable of making any sound decisions. I no longer play at multiple-tables at once, because I need to focus on what the other players are doing, and doing this at more than one table, has watered-down my effectiveness. I'll never be Tom Dwan, Hevad Khan, or Bertrand Grospellier (people who can play 30 tables at a time!), and that okay. I also found that it's easier for me to be patient, because I'll play slots at various MG casinos, generally playing low bets, so I have a distraction which is great because I won't get too antsy to get involved with an average hand. At the same time, it probably has helped my slot-play as well in the long run (thank you wide-screen Samsung monitor).


    ***


    I've played on multiple platforms over the past couple of years (and at 888.com and Paradise Poker back in the day), and each one has it's pluses and minuses.



    - I think that Pokerstars is the best site, I feel that the RNG is the best because it doesn't feel like there are too many situations where I go bust when I feel that I've got the best hand. There's a huge field of players, with lots of "donks" at the minimum buy-ins, more so than at any PrimaPoker site. I feel that my money is safe there. There are some negatives though, the design is terrible. It's really ugly. It makes a mid-60s hospital look visually stunning by comparison. I don't like the table options. When registering for a tournament, the registration for tournaments screen (before you click to get in) is constantly moving-up, so you have to click fast.



    Beautiful scenary... :puke: It's like hurling this morning's cream soup...​




    - I think that Full-Tilt is a close second, but may very well be on par also. I'm not a fan of the layout here either, but I feel that my money is safe, again, I like the RNG (which is VERY important to me), the competition is said to be soft (but I've not seen that... yet), the promotions are pretty good, and I'll be making more deposits there in the future (should I go bust). There are a ton of great tournaments here, similar to PokerStars.



    - PrimaPoker (SpinPalace/GamingClub/32red/PokerTime/Roxy/PokerShare/Crazy) for me, has the best layout/design of the major poker sites. I like that they don't use characters for people, they keep it simple. I also prefer the tiled-screens, which aren't very nice to look at, but are small, and great for those who like to play at more than one table at once (I can fit as many as 36 at once on my screen (!). I absolutely hate the RNG here, because all too often, there are too many "coolers" (situations where you can't fold, because your hand is just too good, but so is the other guys). Depending on the site, you're likely not going to find as much action at these sites, as you would with a PokerStars. I also find that players here are really good, because the field isn't as big. There are a lot of players from Norway, Sweden, Finland, which are countries known for their great poker players (reckless/dangerous/every hand is quickly played).


    - PartyGaming was a site I always felt would be great (from all of their TV spots), but there have been too many issues with non-payments, ect. I did okay there, when I first started, and I felt that the site's design was fair (similar but a bit better than PokerStars). I no longer go there, for reasons already mentioned. You'd think a site that has so many advertisements, TV tournaments, and good backing, would be so much better than they are... but it's not very good.



    - Betfair is pretty good, although I've not played their much (just a couple of small deposits made there last year). Overall, I like the site's design, the tournaments are pretty good, and the options are also fair-good (not far behind PrimaPoker).



    - Ultimate Bet/Absolute Poker will hopefully rise-from-the-ashes. I would have put them in the same league as Full-Tilt or PokerStars (with the same boring layout/design), but there's just too much prior turmoil to ignore. Personally, I think that whatever indefensible mistakes that have happened there in the past (reading people's whole cards), won't happen again.



    - Interpoker in my mind, has the 2nd best design behind PrimaPoker. The tournaments are so-so, the competition is relatively fair (which is good), and your money is safe as safe can be. It reminds me a bit of the PlayTech poker rooms (which are nice, but the characters are limited), but the RNG for me, falls somewhere between PokerStars and Prima.


    ***



    Watching hours up hours upon hours upon hours of poker on YouTube, I truly wonder who the best player in the world really is.



    The generally feeling, is that Phil Ivey is the man. And if it's not him, Tom Dwan is right there, and if it's not him it's got to be Patrick Antonius. What about Phil Hellmuth and his 11 WSOP bracelets, surely he must be the best?



    Just for fun, I've decided to make a Top-40 list of who I perceive as being the best players in the world today. Today, would be today, but also over the past few seasons up until now. I'm not going back to the perception of '75, or even '01, I'm talking about these days.





    "Top-40 Poker Stars and Up-'N-Comers"





    1) Phil Ivey - he finally brought his "+A" game this year



    2) John Juanda - always underrated and under-appreciated



    3) Patrick Antonius - maybe the best and luckiest cash game player



    4) Tom Dwan - online freak and prodigy



    5) J.C. Tran - a couple of years ago, he was the best unknown player



    6) Erick Lindgren - best tournament player in '08



    7) Jeff Lisandro - best thus far in '09 WSOP, waiting on Ivey



    8) Daniel Negreanu - could be the best if he'd quit talking so much



    9) Phil Hellmuth - not given enough respect even if he's just a NLTH GOD!



    10) Allen Cunningham - like Juanda, completely underrated and very steady



    11) Ted Forrest - great all around player, tournament and cash games



    12) Peter Eastgate - not a fluke, maybe the next Chip Reese



    13) Huck Seed - lovable gentle giant is very consistent and undervalued



    14) Robert Mizrachi - "goon" but very profitable player



    15) Scotty Nguyen - maybe the best "drunk" player; HORSE 2008 winner



    16) Jesus Ferguson - overrated by some, but great tournament player



    17) Mark Seif - also underrated, although started to drop off the map



    18) Layne Flack - always does well, just not on TV



    19) Greg Raymer - generally goes deep in tournaments and very consistent



    20) Kenny Tran - a bit too egotistical, but still strong





    View attachment 18544
    At one time, voted as one of the sexiest people alive.




    21) Gus Hansen - where has Gus been this year (?) always dangerous



    22) Bertrand Grospellier - online wiz, StarCraft wiz, moving up fast



    23) Antonio Esfandiari - the "Magician" is starting to get a little more serious



    24) Scott Fischman - the best member from "The Crew"



    25) Annette Obrestad - crazy player, and most certainly great



    26) Josh Arieh - unnoticeable, but quietly effective



    27) Jason Bonomo - egotistical online player who's great in tournaments



    28) Carlos Mortensen - always dangerous



    29) Joe Hachem - great tournament player, like Jesus and Raymer



    30) Todd Brunson - looks drunk, but could be in the Top-5 if he shaped-up



    31) Brandon Cantu - like Bonomo, egotistical and great (seems lazy)



    32) Nenad Medic - a rock



    33) Jeff Madsen - looks like an idiot/high poker IQ though



    34) Vitaly Lunkin - this guy came out of nowhere, already making a mark



    35) Mike Matusow - The Mouth always seem to go deep at the WSOP



    36) Freddy Deeb - Great tournament and cash player (still)



    37) Kathy Liebert - annoying, but ultra-good tournament player



    38) Ivan Demidov - likely the best Russian player (who should be higher)



    39) Roland De Wolfe - maybe I also have him ranked too low



    40) Alexander Kravchenko - another Russian great



    The next person would have been "Kirk Morrison", the guy who disappeared from poker for several years, but who should have been much more renowned than he currently is.



    I didn't include other notable players such as Lyle Berman, Jennifer Harman (greatest woman player ever), Barry Greenstein, T.J. Cloutier, Doyle Brunson, Bobby Baldwin, and a bunch of others, because either they're not playing as much, they generally just play the big non-televised cash games, or they're just not doing very well these days, although they are still most certainly relevant. There's no question that Doyle Brunson is a greater player than arguably anyone on the list, but just not so over the past few years. I also didn't include Eli Elezra, David Benyamine, and Sam Farha, who could all easily make the list, because they're big cash game players, but we really don't know how well they're running these days (although we could all guess that they're doing very well).




    Most entertaining players




    1) Tony G - When he's talking he cracks me up, especially when he knocks-out Ralph Perry and says "Go back to Russia!", or bluffs Surinder Sunar in Paris "You gotta like it, it's a nice bet".



    "On your bike... Go back to Russia!"​



    2) Daniel Negreanu - For being able to read people so well, although I would probably benefit him for keeping quiet, because I've got this feeling that Phil Ivey has that same ability and that's why he's so good.


    3) Gus Hansen - I like it when Gus goes against the grain of wisdom, and just does his thing. Like the time that he went for something like 14 straight hands without a loss and knocked-off The Poker Brat.


    4) Todd Brunson - He's not exciting, he looks like a drunken a-hole, but that's the fun part for me. Looking half-baked, and throwing chips in on High Stakes Poker as if it's poker change, just cracks-me-up. He's much greater than people give him credit for being.


    5) Phil Hellmuth - I suppose he could also be number #1, it's just that he always does his thing, so I guess the world is spoiled. I liked it the most, when he got into it with Sheiky on Poker After Dark, calling for the producer Maury, and going awol... great TV!


    6) Mike Matusow - For his meltdowns, for going after Greg Raymer (who's like the nicest guy in the world AND a greater tournament player than even Mike is). Again, his battle with Sheiky during the 2006 WSOP (which was the best WSOP if you ask me) was a classic.


    7) Jamie Gold - Everyone calls him a fluke, lucky, ect. I think that "Ari" Gold's '06 bracelet was very well deserved. He did everything right, despite being recognized as one of the worst bracelet winners of All-Time. I think that he's better than people give him credit for. His highlight would be the entire performance he put on during his '06 run, but if I had to pick one moment, I'd go with his High Stakes Poker appearance, where his K-K ran into Sam Farha's A-A, and he negotiated his way from losing too much money.


    8) Huck Seed - He seems to get this recognition for being a really boring guy for TV, but I see him for just the opposite. He seems to be always pulling for the other player, and it doesn't seem like an act. It's strange to see an all-in call, both players standing up, and he's always encouraging the other player to get the card that they need.



    View attachment 18545
    Nice guy.



    9) Tom Dwan - Incredibly egocentric, and he never gives off the impression that he ever loses. In particular, I find his trance-posturing to be VERY funny! It's like he has a vibrator in his pants, and he's getting off or something. What is that? I guess it works, but...


    10) Sam Farha - He's always trying to steal the show, but he always makes High Stakes Poker exciting with his high raises. He can't get enough TV time I guess.



    "Poker is fun/For every-one/Except my opponents/Who shoulda practiced avoidance/They ain't big proponents/​

    In thinkin' not just in the moment/But the possible future problems/Sometimes comes tough to solve them!"



    Honorable mention goes to Prahlad Friedman and the Jeff Lisandro accusation mix-up back in the '06 WSOP! "Poker is fun/For every-one/Except my opponents/Who shoulda practiced avoidance/They ain't big proponents/In thinkin' not just in the moment/But the possible future problems/Sometimes comes tough to solve them!"



    Thank you for reading.



    Steed


    ***
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
    15 people like this.
  2. Aug 9, 2009
  3. NASHVEGAS

    NASHVEGAS Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,

    Occupation:
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    Location:
    MERS
    As Always Great Read:thumbsup:


    Going to add one of my favorites who has fallen off the earth, not really as he is a local resident of Brentwood,TN. (not Tupelo,lol)

    BEST NAME

    1.Chris Moneymaker
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Aug 10, 2009
  5. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

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    ***


    NASHVEGAS




    If I made a list of my favorite players, I'd put Moneymaker near the top (not necessarily for his style of play but for who he is), and yes, the name is clearly #1. Amarillo Slim, Doyle Brunson, Chip Reese, Jamie Gold are pretty good names too, but yes, Moneymaker, because if his name wasn't Moneymaker, poker surely wouldn't be where it is today.



    I could write an essay, about how Moneymaker has run into a lot of bad luck in the tournaments, since his WSOP '03 victory. I keep reading articles about how he's this big fluke, but I just don't see it. He claims that he does relatively well on the internet and in live cash games, and he's never been accused of being a liar. He seems like a very honest guy. I wouldn't put him in the same class as the players that I've mentioned, but is he worse than a Vanessa Rousso (I can't stand her interviews), a Robert Varkonyi (MIT), Beth Shak, Mimi Tran (Barry Greenstein prodigy), or maybe even a Bill Chen (a math GOD)? They're not in the upper-tier, but they're capable enough to maybe steal the odd tournament (and Rousso would have to steal one because I just can't fathom how on earth she makes a profit).



    One day, I hope he could win another bracelet in any other WSOP, TV, or Poker Tour event, just so people quit knocking him so much.



    Personally, I think anyone who's won a WSOP since '03, has deserved it. People always criticize Gold, Jerry Yang, and Moneymaker, but they didn't just get good cards, they played the field well enough (with good enough luck). You can't take the bracelets away from any of them.



    Steed



    ***
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Aug 10, 2009
  7. tat00

    tat00 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
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    great posts

    i would have to say my favorite player is sam farha i love his coolness to the game -i play like that but he by far has the upperhand against heads up situation.
    second has to be daniel negranau-love the way he plays but your right he talks too much during play
    worst player and attitude is kathy liebert she should not even be playing - i think she is rude player and i actually played with her at belagio couple months ago -and she does the same thing yapp yapp yapp about nothin.
    any ways great posts we need more poker talk in here
    tat00
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Aug 10, 2009
  9. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

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    ***

    tat00



    Thank you. :)



    For the most part, my favorite player is Daniel Negreanu. I think that he's an extraordinarily talented poker player, and that's not just NLTH, rather, every game. He's become a greater cash player these days (always in the high stakes game over in Bobby's Room at the Belagio), and has really done not much of anything on TV over the past couple of years. I know that he finished 2nd in one of the WSOP events this year, but his other TV spots haven't been so good. Whenever I seem him on High Stakes Poker, he's running really bad, and he's also called the flop with questionable cards.



    He tends to show off too much, with his card-reading skills, which he's the best at, but he's giving too much away each hand. Sure, he may in fact have command of the table, but he too often makes calls even when he knows he's not going to win, just to see if his read was right (which it usually is). Why he does that, I do not know! :confused: I still feel that - as with someone like Todd Brunson (who needs to clean-up in general) - if he devoted himself to the tournaments like the WSOP, he could win a ton of bracelets. I'm sure most people feel that he could do it. If Negreanu is on his game, I'm not so sure that someone like an Ivey, a Dwan, or whoever else, can be better. He just doesn't seem to commit himself enough to being serious about winning these days. And, he's just not as lucky as the Antonius, Eastgate, Dwan, and Ivey group.



    He needs to slow down on the dreams of making the PGA, becoming the greatest Wii tennis player of all-time, continuously making prop bets, and focusing too much on whatever other game that's got his attention.


    As far as Kathy Liebert goes, I know what you're talking about. She was on TV at a table with Todd Brunson and a bunch of other pros, and she went on and on how there weren't any good poker books out there, and that the world doesn't need another one. "Um, that's super Kathy, but that's Todd... and his father is Doyle, as in... Doyle Brunson. Ah... maybe you didn't know, but he wrote 2 famous books on the subject of poker. Do you think it would be a good idea to just shut-up now". If you've seen it, you'd know that Todd looked as though he wanted to beat the snot out of her. Well... he's just like that anyway.



    She coaches many people as well, with James Woods being the most famous one. I would have to think that they're talking over one another all the time. She is a great player though, because she consistently finishes in the money. Annoying? Absolutely. Great, yeah. I've seen her win more on TV than Jennifer Harmon. And I might be wrong on this one, but I believe that Liebert has the most tournament winnings (poker tour/WSOP/other events) by a female player in the history of poker. Harmon is easily regarded as a greater cash player though.



    Steed


    ***
     
  10. Aug 10, 2009
  11. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

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    One last thing about Liebert, come to think of it, I started to think that she really isn't appreciated as a player, if I factored-in how much money she's won over the past several years, how consistent she's been at finishing in the money, and that she's pretty good at a variety of poker games not just a specialist at one. She had some spots of TV earlier on during the whole poker craze going back to '03, but really, since '06 or so, you just don't see much of her anymore. :confused:



    Part of the problem there I would guess, would be her way of rubbing people the wrong way (i.e. TV producers and the more popular players). When they have Poker After Dark for just the top female players, she's not there? Why on earth, do woman players like Beth Shak, Erica Shoenberg (wow, she's NICE though), Vanessa Rousso, Liz Lieu, Dee Luong, J.J. Lieu, Kristy Gazes, Clonie Gowen, and especially Evelyn Ng (she's friends with all the major poker stars, old pals with Negreanu, but I don't know what's her specialty exactly) get TV spots ahead of Liebert. If you put all of these players together, Kathy Liebert is still likely better than all of them (and probably their poker winnings) combined. No, really.



    How about the next wave of players like Lacey Jones, Tiffany Michelle, or Maria Ho (rrrrrrrrrr...), a ton of endorsements, and for doing what exactly, other than all being hot?



    I can understand if producers went with Annie Duke (who's been pretty good and completely overrated), Jennifer Harmon (very well respected as a player... never mind that she's a female player), Cyndy Violette (Harmon-lite), or a Barbara Enright, over Liebert, but the groups in the paragraphs above who all haven't really done much individually except some modeling for poker and a few deep runs in tournaments (most likely at trendy L.A. casinos like The Commerce or the Bicycle Casino), really haven't earned the right to be on TV. I guess Liebert isn't easy on the eyes (which shouldn't prevent her because she's good enough, and Tony G isn't exactly hot, or "The Devilfish", or "The Mouth", ect), is annoying (but... so is Mike "The Mouth", "The Poker Brat", Phil Laak & his still hot 50-year-old wife who looks like she's about 35 Jennifer Tilly, ect), and isn't a part of the future (... but neither is Farha, T.J. Cloutier, Howard Lederer, ect). All of those points are valid, but unfair in my opinion. We'll never know what's holding her back exactly.





    Steed


    ***
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  12. Aug 10, 2009
  13. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

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    Earth
    Another great thread, JS!

    The live poker scene certainly makes for exciting reading and viewing as the game has developed into such an internationally rivetting spectacle, thanks mainly to the Internet and television with new camera techniques, I would suggest.

    To watch ice cool Ivey at the table, or the entertaining if at times irritating Phil Hellmuth, or the professional play of Lissandro and so many other big names in the game is always worthwhile imo.

    The impact of the young guns on live tournaments although weaned on the Internet has also been considerable, I think.

    Off the top of my head the names Madsen, Eastgate, Mig.com Corwin Mackey, Christian Harder, Isaac Baron, Adam Junglen, Jimmy Fricke, Isaac Haxton, Mike Sowers, Justin Smith all come to mind, and there are many others, whilst Tom Dwan's appetite for risk-taking always makes for edge-of the-seat railbird value.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Aug 10, 2009
  15. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

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    Jetset




    Great post Jetset! :thumbsup:



    Solid names you mentioned there, and revealing to me that you must be a big fan of poker, because guys like Christian Harder, Adam Junglen, and Isaac Haxton aren't exactly household poker names. I spent a few weeks reading threads, and listening to interviews over at "PocketFives.com" last year, and still occasionally pop by once in a blue moon. The names that pop-up the most for me are/were "AJKHoosier1" (Alex Kamberis), "charder" (Christian Harder), and "shaundeeb". All consistently terrific online players, who could all potentially become great live players as well, down the road. The fact that someone like "shaundeeb" has been near-or-at-the-top of most online poker rankings for the past couple of years, is nothing short of amazing. The high-volume of games that you have to play, and win, just to stay in the Top-10 rankings, would burn-out most people.



    Jimmy Fricke while NOT playing a hand of "Magic:The Gathering"




    You had mentioned Jimmy Fricke, and I always feel for the guy. Too many people take shots at this guy, but as far as I can see, I don't think he's a flash-in-the-pan. I thought he played well against eventual winner Gus Hansen in the Aussie Millions last year (or perhaps it was the year before), and that was after the fact that had won the World Series of Poker Europe 2007 HORSE Event, then becoming the youngest player to ever cash-in at a WSOP event (a record that didn't last long... thank you Annette Obrestad). He can be a bit arrogant sometimes, but then again, he's really young, and aren't literally all online poker prodigies built that way?



    About Dwan and Eastgate in particular, aren't they just blessed with good luck? They're both great players already, but they've both run extremely well thus far. Dwan is more exciting to me than Eastgate, but he's also got a little too much Gus Hansen in him, before Gus Hansen got his wings clipped financially a few years back. :oops: He's completely reckless, precise in his readings (though), but I don't think he's had really ran into a run of bad cards yet. That's the great part about Dwan though, he gets everybody's attention, he's fearless or reckless (however one may see it), and there are tons of highs to his game.



    Durrrr...




    If there's a telling sign that "durrrr" won't crash-and-burn like Hansen did, I would point to his "Aussie Millions Cash Game Heads-Up Duel" for 2.5 million, versus Patrick Antonius. The amount of times that he made a correct read and folded, with good hands a few times, was spectacular. It would have even made Hellmuth proud. Just goes to show you how uber-lucky Patrik is. :eek:




    NOTE - For those who elect to vote for a player, you can select more than one player, and hopefully, you choose up to 10 stars that you feel are the 10-best live players today (not just one).




    Steed



    ***
     
  16. Aug 10, 2009
  17. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Apart from his sheer guts and opponent reading capabilities, what I like most about Dwan is his fortitude. In the sometimes massive swings in his fortunes, he rarely seems to lose his composure and simply moves on to address the problem.

    And as you say, JS, he certainly sets a game alight and can hardly be described as conventional.

    As a member of a pre-Internet generation I stand in awe at the way in which these young guns have prospered on the Internet (and I will only digress briefly from your live poker theme in this thread).

    Their ability to play several (and in some cases many - I'm thinking Bertrand Grospellier in particular here) tables at once and the speed with which they play constantly cause me to look on with wonder.

    But back to live poker - what did you think of the chip leader in the November Nine?

    The unpredictability of poker, allied to what must be a decent set of poker skills catapulted 45-year-old Maryland logging company owner Darvin Moon into the lead position in the biggest challenge of all - the WSOP main event.

    To achieve that in an entry field of almost six-and-a-half thousand hopefuls was incredible, I thought. It could have the same impact as Chris Moneymaker coming out of nowhere (and the Internet) in 2003!

    He came across to me like a decent, modest guy himself more than a little surprised at his success, and with around a quarter of the chips in his stack I hope he will go even further in the November grand finale.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Aug 10, 2009
  19. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

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    ***


    Jetset




    Not at all, I love where you're going with this. I can only think of maybe a Stu Ungar as being another player who could read the situation that clearly, and completely throw his opponents off balance, enough to the point where no one wants to get into a pot where they aren't certain that they've got the better hand; perhaps folding after the flop unless they have the nuts. I think that Hansen was a bit like this now but more so before, and I most certainly think that Dwan is precisely that type of a player. It's seems that only the Nordic god Patrik Antonius is the only type of match-up that stops him in his tracks. Our God already gave Antonius Brad Pitt/godlike beauty, but did he have to pull all the stops on this guy? Is he the son of Odin? Whatever he is, he's not mortal.



    View attachment 18554
    "All hail Antonius!!!"





    Grospellier was a StarCraft pro out here in South Korea (and I can't imagine how much extra money he picked-up playing side-games). I caught him on TV several years back (when he had pink hair), then he sort of fell off the radar, but I wonder if he did that on purpose so he wouldn't be recognized as being the Top StarCraft player out here (think: "The Color of Money"). StarCraft is on TV here, literally each and every day.



    I can't imagine how his brain doesn't fry, after playing 62 hands at once for over an hour (if I'm reading this correctly... and I think I am!). Dwan is not too shabby himself, but not in that ballpark.



    ***





    I love Ivey's chances, much more that I liked Cheeno Rheem's chances last year (when most sites were predicting that it was going to be a cake-walk for David). I'm not necessarily rooting for Ivey though. Darvin Moon seems to be this year's Dennis Philips, although Philips really took to being in the spotlight last year, which I can't say is the same for Moon this year. Everyone loves the Average Joe who comes out of nowhere.



    I sure wouldn't want to get the stare down from this guy...​




    I believe that if Ivey doesn't win it, I'd go with Steven Begleiter who's sitting in 3rd as of now. He says that he's not scared of Ivey, and has played against him before (I was thinking of going with Jeff Shulman, but I'm passing on that platter).



    As far as there being a "November Nine", I'm not overly crazy about it. I was okay with the way they'd done it prior to '08 (the old format of just playing through without the giant gap). If Moon was running hot in July, who's to say that his luck is still there come November? I would guess that players are no longer in a groove, and may tend to over-prepare and over-think what they're going to do over a few months of time. It must mess them up.



    Who are you going with Jetset (or anyone)? I know that you're cheering for Moon, but who's your pick to win it all?



    Steed

    ***
     
  20. Aug 10, 2009
  21. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    The heart goes with Moon, because it's always great to see an ordinary sort of guy come out of nowhere and surprise the crowd (not something the bookies like, I'm sure!)

    But the head tells me that Ivey must be in with a more-than-decent chance and I have huge respect for his abilities both online and live.

    That said, I think your pick of ex-Merril Lynch exec Begleiter is a shrewd one that could well come off.

    I'm not sure a Jeff Shulman win would go down too well with Harrah's, given his much publicised comments about dealing with them...but that would generate some great news opportunities!

    Like you, the Fearsome Finn (Antonius) also impresses me, and I have been following his infrequent clashes with durrr in the 50 000 hand Dwan million dollar plus Challenge, where I think they're almost at the halfway mark now. He has taken the lead a couple times already and seems to be a real threat despite Dwan's poker gymnastics!

    I'm not a fan of the prolonged break between deciding the final WSOP Main Event table and then bringing them all together again for the grand finale in November, but it seems to have found favour with TV network moguls who appear to be calling the shots.

    For players that have survived such a massive entry field and gruelling playing schedule I guess it could constitute an R&R break (although that's the last thing on said TV moguls' minds, I'm sure LOL) I guess someone like Moon could also usefully deploy the time to polish his skills, too.

    But by November they're probably out of the unique ME zone and need to get focused and game-ready all over again, and from a railbird's p.o.v. I find that it interrupts the excitement of having the grand denouement contiguous with the actual event.
     
    2 people like this.
  22. Aug 10, 2009
  23. WonderingSpirit

    WonderingSpirit Casino critic

    Occupation:
    -
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    Scandinavia
    Great post.........
    Although I dont agree with the talk to much part about Daniel Negreanu. Thats part of the entertainment.

    He is my favorite. Great player,great entertainer and some amazing reads.

    Here is a couple of my favorite moments: Amazing :notworthy


    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2017
    2 people like this.
  24. Aug 10, 2009
  25. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

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    I'm a Liebert fan. And I hate the fact that, younger, prettier, more cleaveage, less clothing (which looks really bizarre when the guys are wearing long sleeves, jackets, etc. -- most of us know it's usually cold as a meat locker in a casino), etc. all means more than being a good poker player in TV poker land.

    A couple of years ago, they gave her a make over.... fresh hair style, lightened her hair, plastered on some make up, painted the nails, etc. Pppffffffffftttttt.... She is who she is.... I say they should give the woman a break and leave her alone to play poker.
     
    2 people like this.
  26. Aug 10, 2009
  27. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

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    Jetset



    I forgot that Jeff Shulman wants to throw away the bracelet. I was listening to an ESPN Podcast with Phil Gordon & Andrew Feldman, where they were talking about that whole ordeal. I heard though - since that time - that he's going to auction the bracelet off for money for charity should he win. There are some other ideas about what he should do with the bracelet, one of those being giving it to TV's Stephen Colbert. Even if he has issues with who controls the WSOP these days, it'll be a disgrace to the game if he doesn't honor it and the people behind it by keeping the bracelet. If he truly loves the game as much as he wants everyone to think he does, why taint it like that?


    ***


    WonderingSpirit





    Thank you! :) Negreanu is also my favorite player, but I'm always disappointed whenever he's knocked-out of the earlier rounds for the past several years at the WSOP Main Event. It seems like he just shows up to the Main Event, he makes his appearance, and doesn't really seem to come off as though he's committing himself enough to go the distance (like he wants to wrap-it-up so he can get into the big side games). I see "The Mouth" or "The Poker Brat" hurtin' whenever they get knocked-out, and I guess I can see how badly they really wanted it. I could be wrong about Negreanu, but it's like he's having WAY too much fun (and I'm not saying he should be angry or crying either :D ). As a fan, I just want him the win the big one again. I want him to be the clear #1 player in the world, because he's just THAT good. How everyone always talks about Ivey being the Tiger Woods of poker, I think Negreanu could be in that spot instead.



    If you watch him back in the late '90s, he was much more dangerous because a was a bit more low key (although he was still having fun way back when). I can't argue with your point about him being entertaining though... he most certainly is that.



    The YouTube clips that you've posted are probably his best moments at the WSOP over the past few years. :thumbsup: I think it's the same year, when he's sitting next to that annoying former card-dealer, when he starts singing "Eye of the Tiger" back at Daniel. He made a great fold that time, when he gave up his straight.



    Steed


    ***
     
  28. Aug 10, 2009
  29. silkprint

    silkprint Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Yup ...I work
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    Mass
    WOW ! Awesome thread
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Aug 10, 2009
  31. Kenny Lingus

    Kenny Lingus Tard Counter

    Occupation:
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    Near Chicago, Illinois
    IMHO:

    Best player not on that list:

    Kido Pham - the guy is incredible, can play against anyone, despite being a part-timer.

    Most over-rated on the list: Tom Dwan - can't stand his play or his personality. Anyone can raise with J7 offsuit. Thinks way too much of himself.
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Aug 10, 2009
  33. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

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    Mousey




    Hmmm, you've got me thinking. Maybe in all future WSOP Main Events, the losers must take off all of their clothes. Either change the format a little bit, or add a spicy game of Strip Poker with a $5,000 buy-in. They can do it all by ESPN 'pay-per-view', $119 a pop! I can see it now...




    View attachment 18559

    Norman Chad alongside Lon McEachern...



    ""Wow ladies & gentleman, can you believe that both Greg Raymer AND Kathy Liebert are calling Ray Romano's all-in. Romano's got them crushed with the full house, and he has more than enough chips... yep... he's got them both covered. The 'Everybody Loves Raymond' star takes down a big pot, with a wheelbarrow full of clothes. You don't see this everyday! Oh boy Lon, Raymer also has to hand over the '04 Main Event bracelet... and his new watch... no, not the glasses too... Fossilman is steaming now"


    View attachment 18561 View attachment 18562 View attachment 18560




    ***



    Liebert is better than 99.5% of the other female poker players (with the exception being Harmon), so personally, she's so good that she can dress however she wants. She consistently wins, she teaches poker, she knows what she's doing. Anyone but Vanessa Rousso. :p




    Steed


    ***
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
  34. Aug 10, 2009
  35. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

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    Jetset




    I couldn't let this paragraph go. Jetset, you're the master of writing. I'm giving you 3 shout-outs for using the words "railbird", "denouement", and "contiguous", all in the same sentence. I can only speak for myself, by saying that I promise never to take your eloquent style of writing for granted. The man is a walking-Thesaurus. :notworthy


    Like you, I'm very okay with Moon winning it all. :thumbsup:



    Steed


    ***
     
  36. Aug 10, 2009
  37. cmich77

    cmich77 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    customer service
    Location:
    chicago
    the state of poker

    No matter how well you play, some joker will crack your Aces with a 67. I feel Poker is 70 percent luck, 30 percent skill. Unless you play at very high stakes tables, it is just a crapshoot every time.
     
  38. Aug 11, 2009
  39. Kenny Lingus

    Kenny Lingus Tard Counter

    Occupation:
    Mortgage Industry
    Location:
    Near Chicago, Illinois
    Oh sh#t, I/you forgot Dan Harrington!

    If he isn't in the top ten of living poker players, then Rice-a-Roni isn't the San Francisco treat!
     

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