this is what I'm doing for fun these days ...

[Jory]

I told myself I would not open any boxes until it came time to build, but curiosity got the better of me..

I have not yet watched any videos on how to build as I don't want to overload on information. I have to do some exams this week and that is probably what I should be concentrating on right now, but this is a lot more fun. When I have all the components, then I can start to learn about building.

One thing I've noticed is that there was no Thermal Paste. I had been told by a few people that it should come with the CPU so I'm wondering if it's required as it does not even mention it in the manual, it just shows some diagrams on how to attach it to the mobo.

 

[maxd]

Absolutely, you want that paste! In my experience you risk degraded CPU performance due to overheating, and that's WITHOUT any sort of over-clocking or other large heat-generating activity.

I'm just repeating 2nd hand advice now but the word is that Arctic Cooling is a good brand, MX2 or MX4 are the flavours I've seen recommended. Good news is that it's only a few bucks a tube and that will be way more than you need. A wee smear of it should suffice. Again, the videos are a help here 'cause you can watch the experts do it.

But that should all wait until after your exams. Trust me, you don't want to mess that up, no matter how tempting the distractions. I graduated 30 years ago and I still have final exam nightmares from time to time. Not exaggerating. :/

As far as my project goes I've completely torn my build list apart based on the realization that the mini-ITX mobo format might be overly restrictive for my long terms goals for this new box. Sigh, not much of a spectator sport I'm afraid.

 

[paul@bgo]

That CPU fan looks a little....erm...small? I remember when the Zalman flowers first came out - it was like attaching a jet engine to your CPU!

100% on the paste, don't fire it up without any, the heatsink will effectively be useless without it.

 

[Jory]

Thanks Max

I'm surprised there was no mention of paste in the manual but it seems to me like its essential.

With the Graphics Card I imagine the case will be very warm. What is your opinion of "Air Flow" cases, if that's the correct term. I seen a few with 4 extra fans to help disperse heat. They seem ideal but maybe there are some down sides I'm not aware of.

I took the day off so I could wait on my card and memory. I might seem a little paranoid, but after they left the CPU in the rain, I don't think I could relax knowing these items may be left outside my house.

Is HDMI considered the modern way to connect to a TV/Monitor from PC? I'm still used to VGA which shows how long it's been since I upgraded. If my card is capable of displaying at around 4000x2000, does this mean I need to buy a monitor that is capable of that? What resolution should I look for in a monitor. I don’t think I can use my TV as it's 8 years old and listed as 720p. I hope I can still use it until I can afford a monitor as this was an expense I had not originally budgeted for.

Are there any real benefits of a sound card? If I wish to record audio from a microphone, would it be better quality to have a card rather than using on board?

Knowing this will help me decide what mobo to buy. I feel all I need is one at around £45 as it seems to have everything I need, but maybe there are some things I'm overlooking. In 3 years from now I want this PC to be still up to standard. If it's compatible with my GPU and CPU and includes USB3, then it seems like all I require. The mobo will be the next item I buy so I have plenty of time to review them.

Hopefully this card will arrive shortly. - I'm getting some funny looks from my cat as to why I keep looking out the window ("I didn't know you liked bird as much as me")

Thanks

That CPU fan looks a little....erm...small? I remember when the Zalman flowers first came out - it was like attaching a jet engine to your CPU!

100% on the paste, don't fire it up without any, the heatsink will effectively be useless without it.

That's what I thought too, but someone told me the new ones are more efficient. I don't know myself but I assume it must be correct - It does seems rather small.


_______

Just wanting to add that I decided to buy from Amazon even though they were a little bit more expensive. I felt more confident buying from a site I'm familiar with as they do have excellent customer service.

I mentioned to them about how I was unhappy with my good being left at the front door but how I understand it was royal mails fault and not theirs. Here is their reply:

Hello,

I'm sorry to hear that you've received the item in that condition.

I understand that carrier left the item at your front door and it got soaked in the rain.

We take full responsibility for the delivery of our goods from start to finish and take complaints of this nature very seriously.

We’re constantly working with our carriers to improve the quality of our service, and your feedback has been forwarded to our transportation department.

We realise this incident reflects negatively upon Amazon.co.uk and the feedback you've provided will be used in reviewing the service provided by Royal Mail.

Please be informed that our ordering system automatically assigns the most appropriate carrier to your order when it’s ready to be sent.

Its depend upon the carrier to get the signature during the delivery. However, I will pass your message on regarding the signature for high value item to the appropriate department who will review your suggestion. Customer feedback such as yours helps us to continue improving the selection and service we provide. We appreciate the time you've taken to write to us.

In an effort to compensate for any inconvenience, I’ve requested a refund of GBP 17.00 to the payment card associated with your order, which should be processed within 2 to 3 business days. Please note, this doesn't include your bank’s processing time. You’ll see this amount credited on your next statement.

When the refund is completed, we'll send you an e-mail confirming the date, amount and payment details.

After receiving this confirmation e-mail, you can view the refund details on the Order Summary in Your Account (

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). Completed refunds will appear at the bottom of an individual order summary page.

Regarding the Graphics Card, I hope you'll receive the order in good condition today without any problem.

If you have any problem with your order place let us know by replaying to this email so that we'll assist you further.

We really appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard. We hope to see you again soon.

Warmest regards,
Priya S.

Now that's what I call great Customer Service!

 

[maxd]

What is your opinion of "Air Flow" cases, if that's the correct term. I seen a few with 4 extra fans to help disperse heat. They seem ideal but maybe there are some down sides I'm not aware of.

A cool, quiet system is one of my primary goals with my project. I'm willing to pay a little extra and sacrifice a little on other things in order to get it. That's what 10 years of sitting next to a vacuum cleaner with heat issues will do for you.

So, that said, cases designed for good air flow are very much on my "check 'em out" list. There a few things to keep in mind from what I can tell:

• air flow means dust. Depending on your circumstances that can be a small problem or a big one. Either way do take it well into consideration. I look for filtered intakes, and preferably magnetic filters on the OUTSIDE of the case that can be easily removed, cleaned and replaced.
  .
• at the risk of stating the dead obvious I suggest you look at pictures of your case to see where it can draw and vent air. There are 5 options: front, top, sides, bottom, and rear. What is the expected air flow of your case? Sometimes it's "front to back", sometimes "bottom to top". IMO straight flow lines are better than bent ones such as "front to top" but that's just ill-informed personal prejudice.
  .
• look at the actual size of the air vents. Personal experience tells me that small vents create problems from Day One. This time I'm going for lots of grill space. Again, personal prejudice, but I'll be damned if I'm going to live with an air-choked system again. Way, Way, WAY too much hassle.
  .
• to move air you need fans. Fans make noise -- generally the faster they spin the louder they are -- and they use power. The second item is simple enough, just make sure your PSU can handle them.
  .
• the smaller the fan, the faster it has to spin to move a given volume of air and therefore the louder it is likely to be. In other words there is some advantage here to looking for big fans: run 'em slow and quiet. This is where looking at the fan specs for your prospective case is probably worthwhile. Personally I'm liking cases that will let me use 120mm or 140mm fans throughout, maybe even a big 180 or 200 as the main intake fan. I fully expect that I'll be replacing the default case fans with the largest, quietest after-market fans I can find. At least if they are large I'll have a chance of gaining some real benefit in going for the after-market fans.
  .
• good to have sufficient fan sockets on your mobo to control the number of fans that you are running. otherwise you'll be using a manual setting and/or just letting them run at max (or whatever their default is).
  .
• my understanding is that the fan and cooler that comes stock on your CPU should be sufficient to keep the CPU adequately cool IF you aren't doing any overclocking AND if you have adequate airflow through your case. In other words it's hard to predict these things in advance. My plan is to start with stock cooling and upgrade as necessary.
  .
• in case you are thinking of doing the over-clocking thing at some point keep in mind that the best coolers for hot CPUs are generally watercoolers and watercoolers require a fair amount of space and actual vents on the case over which to mount them. I have no such plans initially but I do want to keep my options open re doing it at a later date. As such I am hoping to buy a case that will permit me to switch over to water-cooling fairly painlessly. Some cases clearly make this as a priority (BitFenix Prodigy, Hadron Air, Fractal Design Core series, Corsair Obsidians, for example), but MANY others do not. Keep in mind that these cases are not bargain-priced, but they aren't necessarily out of the question either. Some will be but you can buy a lot of case for $100 or less too so check them out. Educational if nothing else.
  .
• if water cooling is not your thing then you'll probably be looking at some kind of tower cooler to keep your CPU running at safe temperatures, assuming you are ditching your stock cooler which are generally said to run less-efficiently and louder than good after-market alternatives. This will almost certainly be the case if you are (a) looking for the quietest cooling you can get and/or (b) getting into OC. NOT ALL CASES ARE CREATED EQUALLY in this regard. Look for "maximum cooler height" in your case specifications. That is a critical piece of info because it automatically allows, or disallows, 100s of prospective coolers in one fell stroke. Check out frostytech.com for heaps of info on coolers, their "5 Best" lists are poorly named but packed with great info.

Is HDMI considered the modern way to connect to a TV/Monitor from PC? ....

Sorry, I have no meaningful experience with these issues, I've only recently started using HDMI to connect our new laptop to my 20 monitor. Seems to work great but that, of course, doesn't help you much. My only info comes from looking at the Wikipedia pages for HDMI, DVI, DisplayPort, etc which I invite you to consult. I learned some things, maybe you'll learn what you need to.

Are there any real benefits of a sound card? If I wish to record audio from a microphone, would it be better quality to have a card rather than using on board?

From what I understand the answers would likely be "not necessarily" and "not necessarily". Apparently Realtek ALC1150 and Creative Core3D are good on-board sound solutions for Joe Average folks like me who want good sound from games and media, and will dabble in recording and editing but aren't expecting professional-grade results and/or workflow. Other Realtek audio solutions -- ALC892 etc -- seem to be thought less-well of.

In other words as far as I can tell good mobos with higher end built-in audio can be fine. Beyond that I can't say much since I have no personal experience.

When it comes to mobos I have to confess that I am pretty obsessive about what I'm getting for my pesos and what I'm not. On my last round of builds -- 10ish years ago-- I bought one "value" level board that was highly rated and another that was higher-end and similarly rated. The price difference was about 30% or less.

The value board turned out to be a poorly designed annoyance when it came to building/rebuilding my system and it died within a few years. That box got shoved out the door WAY too soon and felt like a waste of money. The other one is still running and has been a joy since Day One. My take-away from that experience has been that you have no idea how a supposedly respected card will play out as the years go by. Also, a well designed, feature-packed mobo can bring you pleasant surprises for years to come but I can think of no realistic way to ensure that happens.

This time around I'm considering my mobo to be the single most important piece of kit in my new system and I'm giving it the "appropriate" attention and budget. I'm going to get one that I really believe in, both in terms of it's ratings AND features. Will that make any difference in the long run? Who knows, but I won't be walking into this one ignorant and half-blind like I did last time.

 

[Jory]

I don't actually mind the sound of fans, in fact sometimes I leave a fan on when trying to sleep. It would be different though if it sounds like a jet taking off

I'm going to review everything you've said so far in this thread and then purchase the mobo. I don't mind going over budget if it means I'm buying something of greater value. If you are willing to suggest a mobo to buy based on my requirements, I would go ahead and purchase it. You have so much knowledge that whatever you suggested, I would feel confident to buy. Even if it takes me 6 weeks to buy the parts, I’m happy to wait so long as I am making the right choice and not rushing into it because I'm eager to get started building.

Relieved to say my card just arrived. I'm really excited about all this but for now I must put it away in a safe place.

I have a week to select a mobo so there's no rush. Thank you again for your help - I am continuously amazed by your level of knowledge and willingness to help.

 

[maxd]

Nice card! Sniff, sniff: smells like Witcher to me. (sorry, game withdrawal)

Re the mobo, you're thinking what, ATX or micro-ATX?

My advice is that unless you plan on throwing a bunch of extra cards in your system ATX is old school and over-kill. Scratch ATX.

My own recent (extensive!) research has shown that if you're thinking mini-ITX then you're (a) paying a premium for the small form factor and (b) you'll be trading off features no matter which way you turn. Without getting into a great long thing I'll say that for me the ASRock Z87E-ITX and the Asus Z87i-Deluxe looked like the sweet spots on the upper end of the mITX spectrum. I realize these may be totally out of your budget, I'm just saying what I found to be attractive.

FYI, I knew I wanted 4(min)xUSB3, 4(min)xSATA3, wifi or a slot to install wifi, with mSata or M.2 Sata highly desirable. I also have a preference for clean IO backplates without a bunch of crap I don't and won't need (VGA Dsub, DVI-D, LED readouts, etc). I also had the arbitrary restriction that I wanted the ATX power connector -- the big one, 24 pins -- on the opposite side of the mobo from the IO panel. This was dictated by the fact that I had decided on the the Fractal Design Node 304 case and that power connector placement would work best for cable routing in that case. This restriction automatically ruled out all MSI and most Gigabyte boards. So it goes.

Point being: if you're thinking mITX tell me what you feel you need to have on the board and I can probably suggest a board or three. Keep in mind this will be based on my research not on hands-on experience of which I have zero with these boards. You can also do this yourself by going to either Newegg.com or PCPartPicker.com and selecting your wants and needs from the filter lists in the appropriate mobo section (Intel, obviously). Invaluable tools to help you narrow the field.

If you're thinking micro-ATX as I now am then I don't have much to offer yet because I'm just starting to dig into that form factor as a serious consideration.

 

[maxd]

For those with ABSOLUTELY nothing better to do I thought I'd update the notes on my little project.

Turns out that as much as I love the idea of being as teensy as possible on this -- mini-ITX/cube (shoebox) -- and leaving the tower computer concept behind it probably isn't the smart way for me to go this time around. For a variety of reasons I now believe that micro-ATX and mini-tower is a better choice for me and my future plans:

• µATX has more PCI slots and that could easily be an issue for me. eg wifi. Obviously it's fairly easy to get wifi on a mITX board but mPCIe is usually your only option and even the best mITX boards typically only have one on offer. Want to try PCI SSD? Or maybe add a few more USB or SATA ports? mITX is not your friend here but µATX certainly can be.
• I do want to do NAS and a mini-tower --or equivalent -- is defo more suitable for such.
• mITX components generally cost more; for the same money you can often enjoy a healthy upgrade if you're working with µATX.
• a mini-tower is going to be easier to build in, swap components in and out, try new things, etc. Since fiddling about is something I often end up doing it's a pretty safe bet I will here too. In a mITX box this is going to be a constant PITA, not at all the case in a good µATX enclosure.

So yeah, these days I'm looking at µATX and a suitable case to build in. Case-wise I'm liking these:

Fractal Design Arc Mini R2




Fractal Design Node 804


I've tried to scale the pics so they are shown in roughly correct size to one another. (the fans are a fair reference point, both 120mm Silent Series)

The Arc Mini R2 seems like a particularly well designed mini-tower with a lot of great reviews and pretty much unlimited flexibility in terms of configuring it as a server, gaming machine or general purpose workstation.

The Node 804 is a two-chamber "cube" design which is roughly what you'd get if you took a mid-tower case, sliced it in two and sandwiched the two halves together. Not clear in the pics but it has an IO panel + switchs on the right hand side of the front bezel. It also has a bit more drive space but loses the external bays which is something I'm not sure I'm ready to do.

Gamers seem to have dumped optical drives from their machines en masse but we still watch a lot of stuff on DVD so .. win some and lose some either way. For better or worse I still like the external bay option because even if you do ditch the ODD you can still put a card reader in there, additional ports, some new tech like Thunderbold or suchlike, etc. I like having the option of that flexibility, just in case.

To be fair the Node 804 does have the option of a slot-load ODD but (a) it would block 1/2 the air intake on the right chamber and (b) is it just me or does slot-loading still sound like a sucky idea? No eject button, etc etc. Meh.

Either box would handle my NAS project plans although the Node 804 seems marginally better suited to such in that you'd still have a lot of cooling options after you'd loaded the thing up with HDDs (that chamber behind the mobo has hangers for 8x3.5 HDDs). With the Arc Mini R2 you lose cooling options (up front) as you pack in the drives.

µATX boards are plentiful but these are look good assuming one is thinking of a gaming-style rig:
Asus Maximus VI Gene
Asus Gryphon Z87
Gigabyte GA-Z87MX-D3H

Also good-looking but not specifically game-ready boards include:
Asrock B85M Pro4
Asus H87M-E

All of the above have good-to-excellent SATA and USB connectivity, decent-or-better onboard sound solutions and good fan control since I'm still obsessed with minimizing sound issues.

Obviously I've up-ticked the overall project costs but it still comes in a good bit cheaper than mITX-rig + NAS box would if I built them separately. When you consider that the NAS is going to have something like $1000 worth of drives in it alone it seems sensible to choose a good home for the thing. Dropping a few extra tenners here and there on case and mobo pales in comparison.

Other things are still up in the air -- obviously -- but it seems like this µATX idea is solid, a better direction to be heading in.

 

[maxd]

I've been trying out a new site (compare.eu) and they offer a BB-friendly parts list, giving that a spin here now:

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(@ Jory : they've got a UK sister site if you are interested, skinflint.co.uk)

Re the choices above: I've been continuing my scatter-shot research and have discovered that Haswell processors really like fast memory ¹, hence the DDR3-2400. Also (somewhat) justifies the ridiculously capable Asus mobo though it begs for overclocking.

So why the gamer's mobo?

• amazing connectivity: 8xSATA3, 8xUSB3, 8xUSB2, 1xM.2, etc.
• great on-board sound.
• able to drive the faster memory which Haswells really like ¹.
• highly respected, said to be one of the best µATX boards available.
• good price these days.

One would normally expect a K-series processor in this rig in order to be OC-ready but the truth is I'm not at all sure I want to go there. What I really want is a noticeably powerful processor that will shred most of the work I throw at it, wow me with its magnificence and be game-ready for when I decide to drop the cash on a good graphics card. The i7-4790 comes in at PassMark 10,000+ and that sounds pretty good to me, a healthy 25% better than anything I've used to date.

To step up to the 4790k is another €50-75 and I'm not sure I'd ever use it. And if I did it would mean dropping more money on big coolers, bigger PSU, etc etc. By the time I'm ready to do that I expect there'll be another generation of processors in the pipe -- possibly something REALLY different if the rumours are to be believed -- and why not just step up to those rather than dick around with all the OC paraphernalia? I'm into the PC gear-head thing to an extent but I don't think I want to make it a 24/7 lifestyle choice.

¹: eg "... running the stock [i7-4770k] CPU with DDR3-2133 or DDR3-2400 instead of DDR3-1600 actually gets you pretty close to the 4.5GHz overclock with DDR3-1600." (see

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)

 

[Jory]

Thanks Max - that looks like a really useful site!

I actually just placed an order on Amazon lastnight. I know they are slightly more expensive than if I was to shop around - but I'm happy to pay a little more just for the peace of mind in knowing that if there was any problem with the items, there would be no headaches in reporting this. When buying from a new website, you don't know what to expect in terms of service. Buying from a site I'm familiar with removes a little bit of stress.

I noticed that this morning my card had not yet been charged so I just sent them an email inquiring about this. They replied in 30 minutes with an apology and refunded all delivery charges and upgrade to express delivery for free. It wasn't even a complaint, just a question. I guess its this level of customer support I would never expect to find elsewhere. If building PCs was to become more of a hobby after this project, then I would check out some other sites as money would be more of a factor.

Regarding overclocking, I've not done much research on this, but a few people I've spoke to have recommended I avoid it in case I damage the processor. Once I get the PC built, then I'll do some proper research on this. It sometimes feels like the more I learn, the more I realise there is to learn.

A lot of the terminology is completely new to me so it can take a lot of time just to review one component. It will all be worth while though once everything is built and running smoothly.

 

[maxd]

Hey Jory, good to hear you get such great service from Amazon.co.uk. For me it's a totally different story, Amazon.fr has the world's shittiest service and I'm getting to the point where I'm avoiding them where possible. They still owe us €128 from _years_ ago when they totally botched an order on us and refused to take the goods back or refund us. They simply stopped replying when they decided they didn't like what we had to say. Wankers!

Anyway, life goes on. I'm still looking for the best source for gear here in France, not having much luck. Since Surcouf shut down there's basically nothing left but boutique shops -- FNAC doesn't count because their prices are typically ridiculous -- so online is my only real option for a decent selection of goods.

That said, check this out! I think I'm in love! It's the new micro-ATX/mini-ITX Steam Castle from DeepCool and I wantz!





Takes full-sized tower coolers, GPUs and PSUs. 6x3.5 HDD I've read though it looks more like 4x to me but whatever. Said to look promising for water cooling. Size is 420 mm x 390 mm x 260 mm (DxHxW) which is obviously fairly largish but with something like this I reckon "go big or go home" is the order of the day. IO panel is 2xUSB3 + 2xUSB2 + 2xAudio. Supposedly available in July for around €90/$120.

Rumour has it that the Steam Castle is basically a dress-up of the AeroCool Dead Silence (

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) which is no bad thing. Tom's said the DS is pretty respectable: Outdated URL (Invalid)

Assuming they haven't bungled anything I'm seriously considering this, especially since it's pretty much the only cube design my wife will tolerate. Once I kill the coloured LEDs which apparently shine through the smoke stacks on top I think I could look at that for the next few years, no problem.

Of course I'd have to get a good pair of aviator goggles to go with -- and a pair for the Mrs -- but I'm sure that could be arranged:

 

[maxd]

To my surprise I actually find myself looking at ATX motherboards. I had hoped to avoid that -- small being beautiful and all that -- but in the interests of satisfying my hardware tweaker urges it looks like I will probably want those ATX extras after all. I guess that's what happens when you want ALL of your toys in the pram at once.

Anyway I STILL want to avoid a damn tower case so this is what I'm looking at now:



It's the Cooler Master HAF XB Evo, in case anyone wants to rush out and buy one for themselves.

I think it looks like a cross between a S.E.A.L. footlocker and a ghetto blaster. Whatever, seems it's got a lot of configuration options and you can fit pretty much any old piece of kit into it. And it lets the mobo sit flat which is something I seem to be hung up on having. My wife is finally sick of all my stupid questions and she's willing to put up with it as long as I STFU about it already! Sounds like "yes" to me.

 

[Jory]

Nice!

I just need mobo, case, and power supply. Tomorrow I will buy mobo but I am still really undecided. :S

It seems whoever I speak to has a different opinion. I guess I just want one that does the job...

Sometimes when people talk to me about computers it feels a bit like this:

Yeah, you should get the WWDX12-50 with MK75-4X symbiotic initiation equalisers with therapeutic overdrive enabled by default.

Then I go on Amazon and feel like this...

 

[maxd]

I just need mobo, case, and power supply. Tomorrow I will buy mobo but I am still really undecided.

I hear ya!

I sometimes think the question of "which mobo do you like best?" is rather like being asked "which of your internal organs do you like best?" Uh, they all look good to me!

That said you can narrow the field a lot by making a bullet list of what you want from your board:

• know how much you want to spend?
• USB ports: lots or a few? USB3 or is USB2 good enough?
• as above for SATA. in particular, how many SATA3?
• need/want any of the fancy storage connections? eSata? mSata? M.2? Thunderbolt? SataExpress?
• want to run fast memory or just vanilla 1600? Haswell chips like fast memory and 2400 barely costs more than 1600 these days.
• will you be overclocking or no?
• want wifi/bluetooth out-of-the-box or willing to deal with that issue later?
• care about onboard switches (CMOS reset, on/off, etc)? status read-out? BIOS reset? Flash from USB? These may sound pointless but if you rebuild your system frequently these can be very handy indeed
• are cooling fans a priority? how many? 3-pin (basically just on/off) or 4-pin (speed-controlled on-the-fly by the mobo)? water-cooling? if yes look for a CPU_OPT fan header.
• your warranty: do you care? some have almost nothing and some are 5 years.

PCPartpicker.com can be really useful here. Start with a clean build (no components chosen), pick the items you already have, then go to the motherboard page where you'll only be shown boards that are compatible with the components you've chosen so far. Use the right side panel to tick off items that are important to you. The list is dynamically updated. Still out-to-sea on the boards being offered? Sort the list by Rating to get the most popular/best rated boards at the top. Sometimes you'll see a run-away leader, check into it.

Another useful approach, something of a variation on the PCPartpicker approach is Newegg. (forget the fact that it's US and you'll never actually shop there. you're there to use their info facilities, nothing more.) Go to the motherboard section of interest and look for "Power Search" at the top of the left-hand selection bar. In Power Search start selecting the items of importance to you and hit Search: you'll get a list of all mobos matching the criteria you've selected. List too long? make further selections (on the left) to narrow the field, or choose "Best Rating" in the "Sort By:" drop-down at the top of the list. Read the reviews on a board that interests you, you'll get a ton of useful info because Newegg sees A LOT of user traffic. List too short? Click off some of your selection criteria at the top of the list and the list will dynamically update to include whatever boards now fit the bill.

Or, if you have specific questions on a particular mobo (yes, I realize this may not come until later) try the forums at Overclock.net. You can get very pointed and specific information within hours because there are thousands of hardware geeks there who are really into this crap. Massive, MASSIVE resource!

Last but not least, ask here. I'm up to my eyeballs in mobo specs these days and may be able to help or point you in the right direction.

Motherboards may seem as dull as dust at first glance but in reality they are the beating heart of your system and deserve some real attention. Also, there is some logic to the feature-madness once you get into it. Press on, use Wikipedia to read up on features you're not familiar with. The fog will start to clear soon enough.

One bit of advice: ignore the stuff that doesn't seem to matter to you. If it is important you'll be forced to revisit the issue and you'll learn about it then. If it isn't important then you've just saved yourself some time. As long as you stick with the major mobo brands -- ASRock, Asus, Gigabyte and MSI -- the chances that you'll end up shooting yourself in the foot by making a really bad choice are very small.

Fear not, with the right tools you can make a decision -- or at least a very short list of candidates -- within a few days.

 

[maxd]

Ok, I know you guys are desperate for an update on my new rig.

As you'll see things have changed a little (totally!). Started out with a mini-ITX breadbox, ended up with an ATX foot-locker. All great fun though!



Here's the parts list in case you want to rush out and do a "Max Build" for yourself.

mobo: ASRock Z97 Extreme6
cpu: Intel Core i7-4790, 4x 3.60GHz
ram: G.Skill RipJawsZ DIMM kit 16GB, DDR3-2400, CL9
ssd: Crucial MX100 512GB, 2.5", SATA 6Gb/s
hdd: misc WD Greens from around the house
chassis: Cooler Master HAF XB Evo Cube
cpu cooler: Zalman CNPS9900 MAX (will have to check clearances before purchasing)
psu: Super Flower Leadex Gold 650W ATX

Most of the stuff is pretty reasonably priced. Splashing out for the cpu and ram in order to get some real juice from day one. Total tab will be about a grand, give or take, before the graphics card. That will have to wait until vacation time, or maybe the fall. It'll almost certainly be an EVGA GTX 770 of one flavour or another.

Should probably say a few words about the PSU. I know nobody has ever heard of Super Flower but its a real performer and best of all it is semi-passive, meaning the fans don't kick in until the load reaches 300w (I'll have to verify that 300 is the trigger point). In other words it is dead silent until the system starts cranking over. Since your average desktop spends about 95%+ of the time at idle I like the sound -- rather, the silence -- of that. Payed a fair bit more that I would have for your average PSU but if it delivers I'll be well pleased that I took this route.

Decided against a K-series processor (for over-clocking) because these days that looks pointless, 5% if you're lucky and you'll need to worry about extra cooling gear etc right from the get-go. Meh. Seems the hardcore overclockers can get some real OC results but that's with liquid nitrogen and such bollocks. Not me! This is a hobby not something I'm getting paid to do. I'd rather fiddle around with fast storage options and the like, hence the ridiculously loaded mobo (in terms of device interfaces, etc).

Probably replace the case fans once I get everything settled and decide it needs to be quieter. be quiet! Silent Wings 2 fans sound good, there are probably others just as suitable.

SSD is sitting here on my desk. Chassis, mobo and PSU are in the Post. Will order the rest soon as I find good sources/prices.

@ Jory: ended up avoiding Amazon for most of my stuff. Good to hear they do right by you, certainly not the case here across the channel. As I mentioned, Amazon service in France is shit served cold so that's not much of a draw for me. Prices are 10-15% better (for most things) elsewhere and I'm happy to support the independents.

 

[maxd]

More on that PSU. Yay! I knew you'd want that.

Haven't been able to confirm that 300w is the switch-over point on the 650w PSU, the point where it drops out of (silent) passive-cooling state and actually turns the fan on. But I have stats on a 750w unit and there the switch-over happens at around 400w on a hot running test rig. 400w! That's incredible! It means that on your average desktop your PSU is going to be dead silent about 99.9% of the time, all while delivering virtually ripple-free power. And when the fan does kick in it's an unusually quiet to boot! Very low dB. You'd expect to pay a bundle for this, at least I would, yet the price is only about 15-20% higher than a regular PSU of a similar class.

Ya, ya, geek boy is getting excited over his power supply. Snicker if you must but who's going to be loving their new computer real soon. Eh? EH?

 

[NetEntFollower]

Nice build!
I got a similar one myself.

Intel Core i5-4690K, and 8GB RAM. Everything else is pretty much the same. Oh and an R4 Fractal case (it's monstrous!)

It's my first computer with an SSD and boy do I love it.

What do you do on your computer?

 

[whodatrec]

Fore that kind of money you are better of buying a Mac.. I went Mac and im never going back (To a windows PC)

 

[maxd]

Fore that kind of money you are better of buying a Mac..

I don't think so! Mac Pro is the only thing even roughly in the same ballpark and where I'm pitching camp these days something comparable to my (work in progress) rig would ring in at around €3000, at least twice the price of what mine will be once it's maxed out. I'll have a more powerful processor, twice the RAM (and high-speed to boot!), a kick-ass graphics card and I'll have saved €1500. Not to mention the fact that I'll have had the pleasure of building it myself ... and I won't be stuck with a Mac at the end of it.

No sir, I'm happy with the path I've chosen .. x1000. Thanks for the suggestion though, I learned that I'm building something at least equal to the best Mac available and at half the price. Good to know.

Nice build! ... What do you do on your computer?

Thanks, very much looking forward to the whole thing. I was this close to making exactly the same CPU+RAM choices you did, great to hear you've had good results with it! Same mobo, the ASRock Z97 Extreme6? I agonized over that one, could have easily gone to an Asus ROG or one of a few Gigabyte boards I liked. In the end it was all the play room on the Extreme6 that helped me decide. I'm a sucker for tech toys like Ultra M.2 and SATA-Express.

That said the basic components for my new system are on their way to me now. In my mind they are drifting together like pieces of a celestial jigsaw puzzle, and soon a bright new star will be born! My wife says I may have a slightly inflated notion of what's about to happen here. Meanwhile I've picked a name for it, but that'll have to wait until I have pictures to go with.

Fractal Designs cases are sweet! While I was going through the evolution of this project I looked first at mini-ITX build and then considered a micro-ATX system. In either case a Fractal Designs case would have been my box of choice, without a doubt. Node 304 for the former and Node 804 or Arc Mini R2 for the latter. I would have really enjoyed working with those cases, still might if needs be. I'd love to do a mini-ITX build in that 304.

What do we use it for? More like "what don't we use it for?". It'll be our main machine for the foreseeable future, we'll use it for pretty much everything: SOHO, HTPC, media center, web development, site management, Android development, podcast editing, and once we get a nice graphics card in there there will be a little gaming on the menu too (Skyrim, Witcher and Thief have my name written all over them!). I also want to build a linux-based home NAS and that will probably get prototyped in the new rig too, though I expect it'll spin off into a stand-alone NAS box once I get the bugs ironed out.

 

[maxd]

Okay, up and running on the new machine!

Prep and assembly went unbelievably smooth. Not a single snag or problem of any significance. Ended up short one wee little cable because of some mods I did straight away -- swapped out the stock case fans for some larger, quieter, CPU-controlled ones -- but that's pretty much it!

A few quick notes:

• the case (Cooler Master HAF XB Evo) is a dream to work in! Top-grade build quality and very much designed for people like myself who like to tinker with their gear. Bloody marvelous really.
• the PSU (Super Flower Leadex Gold 650w) is unreal: superbly designed, a joy to work with and the thing hasn't even bothered to power up the fan for cooling yet. Barely tepid to the touch.
• very quiet! I'm sitting about 6 inches away from the front panel and it makes about as much noise as a couple people blowing on their tea. Quiet, polite people.
• on the second boot it took me about 60s second to tweak the system to use the fast memory at speed (DDR3-2400). Easy-peasy.
• Linux Mint 17 installed and ran without incident in less than 15 minutes, including (basic) updates.

Overall I'm blissfully happy with the results thus far. Couldn't have asked for more and it was _very_ pleasant assembling.

Took some pics along the way, will post soonish.

 

[NetEntFollower]

I was this close to making exactly the same CPU+RAM choices you did, great to hear you've had good results with it!

Hah, well I was just future-proofing with minimal budget so hopefully I'll get to OC it in due time.

Meanwhile I've picked a name for it, but that'll have to wait until I have pictures to go with.

I actually named my rig "TheMachine"

Fractal Designs cases are sweet! While I was going through the evolution of this project I looked first at mini-ITX build and then considered a micro-ATX system. In either case a Fractal Designs case would have been my box of choice, without a doubt. Node 304 for the former and Node 804 or Arc Mini R2 for the latter. I would have really enjoyed working with those cases, still might if needs be. I'd love to do a mini-ITX build in that 304.

I picked up the R4 half due to minimalist aesthetics and the other half is because the R4 is so quiet. The loudest thing I hear is the external fan on the front (goes by 3 settings and I can start hearing the fan at max speed 16V)

What do we use it for? More like "what don't we use it for?". It'll be our main machine for the foreseeable future, we'll use it for pretty much everything: SOHO, HTPC, media center, web development, site management, Android development, podcast editing, and once we get a nice graphics card in there there will be a little gaming on the menu too (Skyrim, Witcher and Thief have my name written all over them!). I also want to build a linux-based home NAS and that will probably get prototyped in the new rig too, though I expect it'll spin off into a stand-alone NAS box once I get the bugs ironed out.

Sounds interesting - keep me updated on the Linux thing. I don't know much about Linux but I've been learning some commands bit by bit.

Best of luck!

 

[maxd]

Okay! One last post (for now) to wrap things up: pictures!

I've called my lovely new machine The Blue Max. Not because I'm depressed but ... well, see image #2 in the collage below.



When I was doing my research I more or less settled on those components in pic #2 based on the specs, etc. They were the best gear that I thought would suit me and that I could afford. When I looked at them in the online shops I realized there was a serious blue thing happening, total coincidence! So be it: The Blue Max!

Ok, pic #1: the Blue Max family photo.**
Pic #2: why The Blue Max is called the Blue Max.
#3: started on the basic wiring.
#4: basic wiring done, waiting for the mobo.
#5: CPU, cooler and memory sticks all mounted on the mobo, ready to attach to the (removable) mobo plate and mount in the case.
#6: mobo in! Time to fire it up and see where we're at.
#7: up and running, everything loaded in. And a beautiful thing it is too.

If you're into more build details you should be able to read about it here, once they've approved my post:

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And there it is! Great rig, I love it!

** In case it's not obvious from my previous posts, this is what we're looking at in the photo:
Motherboard: ASRock Z97 Extreme6 (oopsy! not in the photo. )
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790
RAM: G.Skill RipJawsZ DIMM kit 16GB, DDR3-2400, CL9-11-11-31
Boot drive: Crucial MX100 512GB SSD
Media drive: HGST Deskstar NAS 4TB 7200rpm
Cooler: be quiet! Shadow Rock Slim
Intake fans: 2x Noctua NF-P14s redux-1200 PWM 140mm
Case: Cooler Master HAF XB Evo Cube
Power Supply: Super Flower Leadex Gold 650W

 

[zebedy]

Oh no we are all doomed


4th June 2014, 12:48 AM The Blue Max Funding Bill is passed.
The system goes on-line Today July 26th, 2014.
Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. The Blue Max begins to learn at a geometric rate.
It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, July 27th.
In a panic, they try to pull the plug.

The Blue Max fights back.

 

[maxd]

In case anyone is wondering this is the real Blue Max (military version):



In spite of the French text it was "the German Kingdom of Prussia's highest order of merit. It was awarded strictly as a recognition of extraordinary personal achievement", founded in 1740 it was later largely interpreted to mean "exceptional contributions to the state". Both a military and civilian award its recipients have included (military) Otto von Bismarck, Manfred von Richthofen aka "The Reb Baron", Hermann Göring, Erwin Rommel, Alfred von Tirpitz and (civilian) Franz Liszt, Charles Darwin, William Thomson Lord Kelvin, Hermann Hesse, Thomas Mann, Henry Moore, Umberto Eco, Albert Einstein and Wim Wenders. The military version of Blue Max was retired in 1918, obviously the civilian order continues to this day.

 

[maxd]

Yeah, well, can't seem to leave this alone can I?

So it's probably clear to all that I'm crazy about my new machine and can't believe how smoothly it went and how stellar the results have been.

That said there are a few things on the flip side, things I may have cocked up and/or am having (idle) second thoughts about. Since I'm waiting for an upload to finish I thought I might multi-task a little -- something the BlueMax is wonderfully capable of by the by -- and post those thoughts here for the edification of the one or two souls that might still give two shits about this whole geeky business:

- CPU: the i7-4790 is MASSIVE overkill for what we typically do on this machine. TBH the only time I've seen it tick up over 10% is when I was running some totally synthetic benchmarks. Normally the thing idles along at < 2%. So yeah, probably serioulsy over-spent on the CPU. Not that it's a loss or anything, we may tax it more with some of the stuff we do in the future. And it should be more than sufficient for our needs for years to come but still, just saying.

- mobo: couple of things have come to light which might be worth mentioning. #1: fan control. Turns out there are precious few 4-pin fan sockets on the board -- CPU + 1 -- and that seems to have some impact on my quest for total control in terms of the noise coming from the box. 4-pin controls are for Pulse Width Modulation fans, PWM for short, and those are controllable and programmable from the motherboard and CPU. If you go with 3-pin controls the only way the CPU can control them is by ramping up and down the voltage. End results seems to be noisier than PWM-controller fans where the CPU/Motherboard is actually controlling the speed, not the voltage. In other words in a big case like I've got more PWM sockets is better. I ended up running the two intake fans off of a Y-cable aka splitter but that's not entirely an ideal solution. Not a huge deal either but given the choice ....

- mobo issue #2: one of the other mobos I had seriously considered was the Asus Z97 Sabertooth Mark 1 and one of the features it offered was basically anti-dust control down at the board level. The board is largely covered with a plate and they've got a couple of on-board fans that create a bit of positive air pressure on the board and that could be very effective against dust accumulation which is a reality I've had to deal with for years. Might've been nice to have. As it is I'm going to have to mod my case to add some dust proofing because the case has more holes in it than a masochist at a piercing party.

- Just so happens that Sabertooth board has a lot more of those PWN fan sockets I mentioned AND it has a very promising sounding array of temperature monitoring sensors scattered around the board. So what? So quiet that's what. If your board is cool you can dial your fans back on the fly and that can cut WAY back on the fan noise. Would've been nice to fool around with but my board doesn't really go there. That said my board has one thing I did want -- a stupid array of connectivity options -- and what the hell, that's play time for a hardware fanboy like me. You pay your money and you take the ride eh?

- fans: turns out there is a thing about fans called "static pressure" which seems to translate roughly into the fan's ability to suck air under adverse conditions, namely behind grills and/or dust-proofing screens. The ones I got are okay for now but as soon as I add the dust-proofing screens they are very likely going to be choked off and unable to pull much air through the filters. So, may end up getting some new fans in order to cope. Live and learn.

- audio: seems Linux hasn't quite caught up to the recent audio hardware (Realtek ALC1150) and so I did have some problems getting it to a listenable state. Turned out there was a fairly basic tweak to a system file that helped enormously but it still seems tetchy to me and requires a lot of fiddling around. Couldn't be helped I guess but still, one of the hits you take by going Linux instead of Windoz. As it ever was though, TBH.

- the PSU: beautiful piece of kit and a dream to work with but I've found out that a muscular graphics card (GPU) can draw as much as 300w or more. Since my system supposedly pulls around 200w now when all is up and running full tilt that doesn't leave a huge amount of head-room once I drop the GPU in. And dual boards is basically out of the question. That's the theory anyway. Something I maybe should have given more thought to up front. TBH I doubt it's going to be a real problem for my needs but it wouldn't have been much more expense to go to a 750w PSU and buy some serious wiggle room.

Anyway, upload finished a while ago so back to it.