The CAP Solution

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dominique

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The way I always saw it is that Casinomeister deals with player issues, and CAP deals with affiliate issues.

If I had a dollar for everytime I have said that affs need to read Casinomeister to be able to make decent decisions about their sites, I would be sitting pretty.

And yes, I have never gotten involved in what affiliate media does. All I was involved in is the message board, moving threads to the appropriate forum (most end up in general discussion even when there is a forum with precisely that topic) and seeing to it that people do not launch personal attacks against each other. I don't have admin access to the forum either.
I have limited time, I have my own business to run.

And, yes, I have turned up the heat when affiliates got screwed. Whether the offending program was present at CAP or not. And some who didn't fix the aff issues got booted permanently, although that is rare.

I rely heavily on Casinomeister to inform myself of player issues, and of course the feedback I get through my own site. I base my decisions on who gets a spot on my site on these three factors, Casinomeister, my own player feedback and the affiliate side. It has worked for my players and for me.

I don't think relying on either affiliate info or player info by itself is enough to base decisions on. The house must be clean in both respects, what hits one group today hits the other tomorrow.

Affiliates are responsible for their own actions, just like anyone else. Information about everything is easily available online, and everyone needs to research before they act, affiliates and players alike.

I see the aff programs at CAP as mostly just being available for discussion and dispute resolving, much like the casino reps are here. With the difference that at CAP they get a forum and this is settled publically.

I didn't design the way CAP works, but as a user, it works for me. It just can't be, and never was meant to be, the only source of info one bases decisions on.
 

slotplayer

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
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Location
USA
I don't get it. Why does everyone want something to be other than what it is revealed to be? that's just wishful thinking.

The true certification for me anyway is the feedback posts from you folks the players and the affiliates over at CAP.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
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I have no idea why CM even started this thread. Bryan, you were unhappy with the first thread because you felt it was non-productive, so you started a new thread. The opening of that thread indicated that you were looking to repair the situation, but now it has gone back to seriously silly mudslinging. This is your site and you have the right to ban anyone you want...that's a no brainer, but it has nothing to do with the "price of cotton". When freedom of speech on a public site is nothing but crap and that disposition is applauded in the midst of trying to find a solution to a problem...productivity ends.

I'm not looking to repair the situation - I'm giving my thoughts on what ought to be done. Take it or leave it. I haven't seen any mudslinging - mostly constructive and a few justifiable criticisms.

Your references on prices of cotton, banning people, and freedom of speech elude me. I have no idea what you are talking about.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
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The way I always saw it is that Casinomeister deals with player issues, and CAP deals with affiliate issues...
Casinomeister deals with industry issues - not just player issues. That's why there are two newsletters - one for the general public, and one for industry folk.

:D
 

Nandakishore

Dormant account
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Dec 11, 2007
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I live near Munich in Germany.
Affilates and Programs: What do we do to end this? If no one else will take action NOW then we need to.
1. We must accept that CAP is a combination of an affiliate forum and hard business.
2. If this construction is hurting us, we must stop all connections with it. Stop going to the CAP forum AND to all events sponsored and/or organized by CAP. Whether that would affect CAP in anyway, I don't know. If it does, it would be awesome!
3. As for the affiliate programs, they may take some actions if the sinking reputation of CAP starts hurting them. All that we as affiliates can do is to make it explicitly clear to the programs certified by CAP that we care a damn for such certificates.
4. The biggest problem confronting us is the lack of a third party certification of affiliates, programs and casinos. With all due respects to Casinomeister, AGD and others, they cannot be considered as a 'third party' as long as even a single banner of a gambling site or a program is visible on their sites. And since a certificate has no value unless it is from a neutral organization and not buyable, we should stop thinking of certifying any program or affiliate.
5. However, if CM. AGD, GIA, PAL and GPWA/APCW can come together and define with the help of its forum members a number of criteria to assess the benefits of affiliate programs for their members, and find a procedure how to use these criteria to assess the programs under active participation of their members, then, of course, we wont have anything which can be called certificates, but "only" evaluation of the values of the programs for a number of esteemed organizations whose members are active affiliates and players.
The affiliate programs may then start weighing benefit of the 'certificates' they buy for plenty of money against this evaluation which does not cost them anything.

But the question is: can we create and manage such a unified process?

I hope we can say: YES, WE CAN !
 

dominique

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Location
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4. The biggest problem confronting us is the lack of a third party certification of affiliates, programs and casinos. With all due respects to Casinomeister, AGD and others, they cannot be considered as a 'third party' as long as even a single banner of a gambling site or a program is visible on their sites.

I have also always been a supporter of AGD, I think the service is completely impartial, regardless of banners.

Facts are facts, and AGD deals solely with facts, these being changes in affiliate T&Cs. The changes are what they are. They are published for everyone to see and consider. They are facts, pure and simple.

No matter what you do, someone has to pay the piper because few people in this world can afford to work full time for free. I wish I was wealthy and could afford to do that. I have all kinds of constructive ideas of what to do with my time if I didn't have to make a living.
 

Nandakishore

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I live near Munich in Germany.
I have also always been a supporter of AGD, I think the service is completely impartial, regardless of banners.
.
I agree. The services given by AGD and CM are extremely valuable for affiliates and players. But, they are not, according to my understanding, third parties, and, therefore should not be considered as institutions eligible to certify programs.
 

NASHVEGAS

Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
MERS
Bryan,
Have you ever considered a moderated private section for player's only???.......Yes, I would post in regards to my opinion on a fix in a private section but I've read too many threads at CAP and at times here to be much more inclined than hence.....With exceptions of course, it is nothing more than Liar's Poker.
 

GaryWatson

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Location
Europe
certify (srt-f)
v. certified, certifying, certifies
v.tr.
1.
a. To confirm formally as true, accurate, or genuine. (?)
b. To guarantee as meeting a standard: butter that was certified Grade A. See Synonyms at approve. (?)
2. To acknowledge in writing on the face of (a check) that the signature of the maker is genuine and that there are sufficient funds on deposit for its payment. (?)
3. To issue a license or certificate to. (what is it for?)
4. To declare to be in need of psychiatric treatment or confinement. (?)
5. Archaic To inform positively; assure. (Just like most other portals)

certified
Adjective
1. holding or guaranteed by a certificate: a certified acupuncturist (?)
2. declared legally insane (?)

Source :
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In all intents and purposes the certification appears as fake as can be and should be placed here

https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

I have no issues with CAP as an affiliate resource but that is where I feel they have overstepped the mark. There is no quality testing. The certification is misleading innocent players and affiliates into parting with their money.

Questionable sites go to CAP with their check books and fix the matter there and then. They are now certified to do what they want with the backing of CAP.

They promote some good programs but scrape the barrel at times. A banned member here was spamming his site at CM and CAP. He pissed of the majority of most members on both forums but when the checkbook came out, he got the green light at CAP and all was forgiven. That was a warning signal that CAP should never have been allowed to prance around with their own self proclaimed certification status.

Just because it is a large site with many followers, it doesnt mean it doesnt belong here

https://www.casinomeister.com/rogue-casinos/

The way i look at it, they have a strong bias towards those who pay for a label that isnt worth anything other than their promotional efforts and duping players into thinking it is a creditable site to play on.

Dom is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Here and CAP is a contradiction in terms. I dont always agree with CM's choices of sites but there is consistency and a true evaluation of a gaming sites worth. CAP is a portal with its own merits, some good, some bad but it should never be allowed to offer its expertize (certification) to sites with a blindfold on. They only give the rogue sites a foothold in this industry which is laden with scammers and the easy buck mentality.
 

mojo

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CasinoAffiliatePrograms.com (or CAP, as its commonly known) is the largest and longest-running online gaming affiliate resource, featuring an active community forum, chat rooms, affiliate marketing tools, industry news/articles, scam alerts, and a rigorous and distinguished certification process for online casino affiliate programs. The CAP Certification Process is held in the highest regard among industry experts, and is designed to protect the integrity of affiliates and the online gaming industry as a whole.
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Perhaps should be re-written?
 
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lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Location
Hell on Earth
Silence and business as usual from CAP, says it all.

We've all seen this before, with other Rogue outfits.

Dom, looks like despite your best efforts, the patient killed it's self..

I don't see how anyone that wants to be considered 'honest' or 'trustworthy' can do business or have anything to do with CAP/PAP now.
 

dominique

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Location
The Boonies
It will have to be silence unless they issue a press release or video or something.

Lou and Warren are not posting at CAP anymore.
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
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Location
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Dom they are leaving the Forum to you?

If that is so, are you going to continue to use the forum to recruit new 3rd tier affiliates for CAP/PAP?
 

jas2587

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Joined
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Location
FL
Not exactly true and all very convenient. Lou has been thanking every pro cap post since his big exit. Furthermore he posted concerning Grand Prive not more than 48 hours ago.

:p

yep I saw the same thing
Lou is not silenced nor retired an healthy as a OX
they act like nothin happened in London its biz as usual
I dont see how or why you would want to put yourself in this mess Dom
No One is gonna believe in CAP again IMO

Cindy
 

dominique

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Location
The Boonies
Not exactly true and all very convenient. Lou has been thanking every pro cap post since his big exit. Furthermore he posted concerning Grand Prive not more than 48 hours ago.

:p

Yeah, he is reading and thanking and wanted to post an update on Grand Prive but thought the better of it.

Leaving the forum to me? I hardly think so. They own it.

I just want that no one gets banned without my say so, and no threads are moved or closed without my say so. There are too many fingers in that pie and these things have been getting out of control IMO.

I am the one who asked Warren and Lou to please stop posting. I saw it as counter productive for the community.

Lou wanted to stop anyway, but after 8 years of considering the forum his baby that's a real hard thing to do, and I understand because I have the same issue.

I don't think that Bryan intended this thread to turn into the slugfest it is turning into, and so I will withdraw from it for a while. I don't feel that there are any open minds here, they seem to be all made up already, so no point to my posting here I guess.
 

rowmare

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Location
Vancouver Island
I don't think that Bryan intended this thread to turn into the slugfest it is turning into, and so I will withdraw from it for a while. I don't feel that there are any open minds here, they seem to be all made up already, so no point to my posting here I guess.
Given the situation, reactions of anger and cynical comments must have been expected...
I understand how frustrating a position you are in; trying to defend the indefensible and calming the angry masses. It is not, however, reasonable to accuse your peers of having closed minds or calling this discussion a slug fest simply because people aren't responding in a way that you are comfortable with.
The reactions you see here are all perfectly understandable and utterly predictable.
 

Casinomeister

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Location
Bierland
I don't see this thread as a slugfest at all.

Criticism is not slugging. Hell, I started this thread to give anyone who gives a flying rat's ass a way to fix CAP.

I didn't just jump off some boat from China, I know the industry, and I have been in contact with scores of people who are directly involved with this. I know what I am talking about.

But this thread is not about me, nor is it about you Dom, it is about how CAP can be fixed. It is about solutions, not about how CAP has helped people in the past.

I'm trying to enlighten the right people on doing the right thing. I'm hoping some of the other interested parties will chime in as well.
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
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Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
Respectfully Dom I completely disagree with your assessment calling this thread a slugfest. Making an observation as to CAP's silence is not an attack, it is an observation. Of which I have come to a conclusion - Which is that CAP are not going to change their current business model.

CAP currently 'Certifies' 90 odd programs, of which many I would not even refer my worst enemy to. CAP are trying to become a behometh in this sector of the industry and create a monopoly, putting cash before the interests of their members' and ultimately the players first.

Also looking at the archive posts of CAP, I find it 'interesting' that Warren and Lou like to publically coerce a program to renew their certification if they do not wish to do so. Another case of CAP Bully Boy tactics that we have become accustomed to over the past few months??

I am not going to name names of the casinos concerned as they do not deserve the negative publicity, but I am more than happy to send Bryan the links to said threads on CAP.


Then there is Lou and Warren's link to Card Spike via Effective Media - which in my view is the icing on the cake ( no pun intended ). It is funny how people are starting to forget about the whole Card Spike affair. Where is Lou's public explanation since Michael released this document -

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There has been just tumbleweed and then more tumbleweed.

Then there were the events at CAP Euro which you yourself witnessed firsthand. Has there been a public apology made to all who witnessed what happened? Again nothing!

I am glad Bryan started this thread. I am also glad Bryan has the Kahuna's to state what a lot of people have been feeling for a long time. CAP is broken, Affiliates are pissed off as are many of the upstanding programs who utilise their services. Is it any wonder the actual posting activity on CAP has taken a nose dive since the last few weeks. No coincidence I feel. People are voting with their feet and quite rightly so.

Until such time the management at Affiliate Media recognise there is a very real problem with CAP that needs addressing, I imagine the situation will get no better. Silencing the dissenting voice is not the correct way to resolve this. although I am sure that is what CAP/AM are hoping for.

I can understand why you are backing out of this thread though Dom. Lou is a good friend of yours and CAP is your home from home. However you know by continuing defending the indefensible you are digging yourself into a bigger hole.
 
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