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Suggestions for the "no student" clause

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Casinomeister, Dec 16, 2010.

    Dec 16, 2010
  1. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    The Club World Casino group has a term in their terms and conditions that disallows them from accepting action from college students. This is how it reads:

    For some, it's not clear enough. Please use this thread to make any suggestions you'd like the operators to consider. Thanks!
     
  2. Dec 16, 2010
  3. ksech

    ksech Dormant account

    Occupation:
    yes
    Location:
    Here
    Thank you Bryan, perhaps the citizens of this community can work together to creatively and positively reconstruct a vague term into one that will leave no room for debate.

    Off to ponder how I would like to see this reworded...
     
  4. Dec 16, 2010
  5. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    1. Remove the term completely. Does not apply to gambling.

    2. Remove all terms that are totally bogus (99%) IMO...get down to business of gambling.

    3. Stop all bonuses that require playthrough. If you want to give a "thank you" for your loyalty chip...then do just that...GIVE IT with no strings attached, otherwise...don't offer anything..

    Reason: If a person is old enough to play and has the funds, regardless of where it comes from (no ones business IMO), then that should be sufficient.

    Other Reason: If a player is old enough to lay down his life for others (serviceman), the player is old enough to play , again, MOO. No need to nitpik and pick and choose which players are to be allowed in the door if they are "of age". Period. I can just see Vegas, carding people at the door asking for their "passports" to prove what location they are from..I mean, get real...if you want to be a casino....be a CASINO! Not my uncle, father ,mother..caretaker...

    We have enough "babysitting" with our government I believe. That is why we are in this mess with online gambling. Too many vague terms applied to grown ups (people of age that can die, be locked etc etc for their decisions) in the name of "protecting themselves"...

    Just a few suggestions..I know they will probably be ignored, but it is nice to give an opinion..of sorts :D

    .
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Dec 16, 2010
  7. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    Based on the rather long thread concerning this term, they need to clearly state that they deem a student as an individual who is in full time education, even during the summer recess/vacation/break. If the intent of an individual is to continue their studies after completing a course, once a new academic year begins - then that individual is still classed as a student by the casino.

    I think also from an affiliate perspective, they need to provide this information to webmasters in any ad copy material distributed. I for one have been in this industry now for ten years, working for an operator and as an affiliate. Yet until this thread on CM was started, I was not aware of this no student term. So much for me doing my own due diligence when reviewing casinos. :cool:

    ( I have however highlighted this term on the review of Club World on my new site and will be updating the reviews on OCR to contain this information )

    This term is fairly unique to Club World and as such listing it as term number 1 is not enough to publicise it IMO. They need to use their affiliates to also provide this information. Perhaps also, on the sign up a new account screen, the new player has to tick a box confirming they are not in full time education.

    If the above was done previously, we would not be seeing a thread grow into over 40 pages.
     
    4 people like this.
  8. Dec 16, 2010
  9. oldtrvlagt

    oldtrvlagt Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Self Employed Travel Agent
    Location:
    Iowa
    IMO the clause needs to be deleted all together. Why pick out this one segment of the population and why is it so important to them? If at my age (50 ish) I decide I want to go back to school full time am I going to be automatically banned from playing? First of all, how are they going to know? Who would think it would be any of their business?

    I agree that they need the age clause (no one under 18) but full time student...come on....it needs to go.
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Dec 16, 2010
  11. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    I disagree actually and not to derail the thread I will explain why. A casino has the right to refuse anyone from playing at their operation, whether it be a land based casino or an online casino in this instance.

    The problem however is that the casino needs to ensure that they communicate effectively key terms such as this no student term. Putting it away on the T & C's whilst at the #1 spot is not good enough. As we all know when installing software or doing anything online, hardly anyone reviews the terms, let alone look at the page where they reside.

    Hence this term needs to be highlighted up there with the you confirm you are of legal age. As per my suggestion above.

    This whole issue would not have generated 40+ pages, if Club World had highlighted this term very clearly in the first place.
     
  12. Dec 16, 2010
  13. Zimbabwe

    Zimbabwe Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Here and there above and beyond
    What are they gonna do?

    I mean really...are they gonna stalk every single person and dig up the info and see if they are attending college etc or not?

    I mean seriously...Are they also asking for SIN numbers? Who would spend the resources on hiring someone to track people and see if they are students or not?This is actually an "illegal" term and condition...
     
  14. Dec 16, 2010
  15. ksech

    ksech Dormant account

    Occupation:
    yes
    Location:
    Here
    As many, I am sure will agree, the "Full-time student" term needs to be deleted. If the casino is so intent on "protecting" the student, then change the minimum age to 25 (MOST students will have finished college by this age). If they insist on keeping this term, they need to clarify (age) of who will qualify as a full-time student. With many ADULTS going back to school, whether due to advancing in a career or for situations (unemployed) not of their making, THIS needs to be addressed also.

    Also, CWC needs to expand on its definition of "the area of Markham Ontario". This could affect many of its Canadian players without THEIR knowledge.

    I sincerely hope CWC takes into consideration every comment (constructive) which is posted. In my personal opinion, it will show the casino group cares enough about their players to insure another travesty like the Danl issue doesn't occur again.
     
  16. Dec 16, 2010
  17. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    I agree totally...it needs to be GONE!
    This is where the problem originates. Clauses that do what? Nothing. If they are going to pick and choose who they want to play at their casino, what will make them stop putting in ridiculous clauses such as , "player must have 2 legs, not be handicapped, etc etc.." Get the picture?

    I mean, when is too much too much?
    Yes, casinos have the right to offer and refuse anyone from playing. But is this a smart business decision? I do not see many casinos choosing this line and terms as this is a most ridiculous clause I find...as you state the following:
    So...knowing most T&C's by heart, you have this one little blip that did not show up on the radar because it is an unknown....why do they want this in there? I cannot fathom for the life of me why any casino would ban or block players of age ....when you say casino can and do choose who plays at their casinos... I do not see anyone asking for "employment verifications" , passports, etc etc at any of the casinos to gain entry..to prove they can afford to play...

    I mean, really, ...this is a very , very , bad and unique clause that needs to be thrown out completely....

    I also wonder how many other "unique" clauses are put in and taken out arbitrarily....without a player knowing...

    It really is time to get back to basics...the term "you play, you pay" is simple as can be...why so many convoluted rules???

    Are they trying to be put out of business???

    .
     
  18. Dec 16, 2010
  19. rockycatt

    rockycatt meistercatt CAG MM

    Occupation:
    carpenter
    Location:
    Boston
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Add this only [ ALL STUDENTS UNDER THE AGE OF 27 YEARS OF AGE ARE NOT WANTED HERE ]

    PS k i S S = keep it simple stupid , its a abbreviation from the world of sales , there's no easy way to tell some one to kiss off if you try it only aggravates them more
     
  20. Dec 16, 2010
  21. darkpixie

    darkpixie Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Vancouver
    The term is far to vague and unenforceable to be an effective protection mechanism for any students the casino 'claim' it expects to protect.

    Lets face it. Now that the word is out, what students intent on playing are going to tick the student box on sign up, even if they had one and especially if its right there in black and white that students are forbidden to play? If I know anything about human nature the fact is that the student is going to NOT tick the box and play regardless of what the casinos pretend to do to 'protect' them.

    Unless ClubWorld are privy to more private information than we consent to, there is no way possible for them to determine a student from a non-student. This term CLEARLY leaves the door open to abuse of this clause, as we have seen in previous posts. Any term that sets itself in such a way as to give an unfair advantage to either side, player or casino, should be removed completely. And in this case it is clear that the clause would only serve to protect the casino in the case of a withdrawal.

    Unless CWC can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they have audited ALL PLAYERS and refunded monies lost and closed accounts of ALL STUDENTS, I call BS on this. This is the real world, if a student wants to play and lose his shirt, let em, best they learn that lesson early on while they still have time to bounce back! If a student plays and wins PAY THEM!

    So my suggestion is get rid of it. If CWC truly cares about Students(gamblers in general) it would set up funds for programs to assist problem gamblers with all those confiscated winnings.
     
    2 people like this.
  22. Dec 16, 2010
  23. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    Casinos refuse players for a number of reasons. Bottom line is, they and only they can choose who they accept or refuse. I personally think it is ( The no student term ) actually is in a way supporting responsible gambling, but it needs to be made crystal clear, so allegations of it being applied subjectively do not occur moving forward. Whether it is a sound business decision or otherwise, that is not for us to decide, as we posters do not operate the casino.

    The issue at hand and the purpose of this thread is to discuss ways on how to make this term clear. As it is apparent Club World are not going to drop it.

    So instead of saying they should drop it ( not going to happen ) - I am offering suggestions, so that this term is as clear as can be. IMO it needs to be highlighted up there with the legal age to play requirement.

    The point is, if they ( The player ) are caught out then they have no right to shout 'Foul Play'. A case of informing legitimate players at the casino and also covering their backs at the same time. If I was a student and saw that term and a tick box to indicate I was not a student. I would uninstall the software and find somewhere else to play. As I am sure 99% of people in that position would. It is not as if Club World are the only casinos available to play online.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Dec 16, 2010
  25. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Could the registration form not popup a message if the registrant is under 25 stating that if they are in full time education all wagers are void - one that they have to accept to complete registration?
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Dec 16, 2010
  27. darkpixie

    darkpixie Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Are CWC going to send a PI to investigate all players under 25 to confirm their status? NO.
    Are students going to ignore that box? YOU BETHCHA!
    Are CWC only going to ENFORCE this clause when there is a withdrawal. DEFINITELY.
     
  28. Dec 16, 2010
  29. rockycatt

    rockycatt meistercatt CAG MM

    Occupation:
    carpenter
    Location:
    Boston
    it also should state all deposite that slip through the cracks will be returned with a adminastration charge if a student falsifies credentials
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Dec 16, 2010
  31. ksech

    ksech Dormant account

    Occupation:
    yes
    Location:
    Here
    If a player is under 30 years of age they will need to provide proof of age PRIOR to depositing. (Any winnings will be voided (if falsified documents are provided) when requesting a withdrawal, assuming they would have to still provide verification documents with initial withdrawal)

    I've never done it, but what happens if you DON'T click the "I agree to the terms and conditions" box? Will it still allow you to download and register at the casino?
     
  32. Dec 16, 2010
  33. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    I think such a pop-up would actually leave the casino MORE open to abuse. Students could play, hoping to get one by the casino if they won, and claim their wagers back as "void" with proof of enrollment. Some students do work full-time and would be able to provide the necessary "not-a-student" documentation.

    Also, you will get issues with people legimately joining when not students, and at some future point returning to school. This pop-up would not appear every time one played I assume.

    Is it Clubworld's intention to only protect young students? They have a term for all students, and accept players from many countries, yet they say "College or University". They don't even ban high school students.

    College and University are narrowly defined here. There are trade schools, vocational institutes and others that qualify for student funding but are not technically colleges or universities. Where do such students fall? I think there is a great deal of ambiguity surrounding breaks between terms, and particularly between graduation and post-graduate work. Many schools have co-op programs, and students are employed full-time and enrolled in school at the same time.

    Royal Military College here in Canada is an accredited university, not a college, but the student cadets are paid employees of the Canadian Military.


    IMO no matter what good intentions Clubworld may or may not have with this clause, it's unworkable and unfair.
     
    5 people like this.
  34. Dec 16, 2010
  35. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    Clubworld Group is the only other RTG I play at. I trust them enough to continue playing there. I LIKE them. They have ALWAYS been good and fair for all the years I have been with them.

    Now, I see a blip on the chart. A term that is unique to them only. Why? Why this term? This is why I get so passionate...when one believes in something so much and then comes face to face with a flaw..then hopefully..that flaw is removed..and common sense prevails....

    Exactly. So why should they be allowed into our "personal" business...that was the point I was trying to make. All a casino should need to know is:

    1. That we are of age (License, etc for proof of age)
    2. That we have funds to deposit (by approved means)
    3. We have approved means of withdrawing
    Why? They have changed other T&C's...updating, rewording, and removing others. Why not this one, that is theirs only, that really makes no sense.
    I , too, am making suggestions..such as.....

    Remove it...this makes it EXTREMELY CLEAR...don't you think???

    I am truly bothered by this one line...How do YOU know this??? I mean, isn't this supposed to be about "changing" this term?? You sound so definite that they will not listen to any of us, is the way I feel, when reading this one line..so why are we even bothering???

    Just wanted to let you know...that one line speaks VOLUMES...to me...and not in a good way...

    .
     
    4 people like this.
  36. Dec 16, 2010
  37. Pulver

    Pulver Senior Member PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Tellus
    It is a BS term sailing under a false flag and should be removed from the T&C all together. There should also be a rule for acredited casino's to not have ambigous, discriminating and unfair T&C's. I thought rules like this were in place, but apparently there are different views on what constitutes as fair.
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. Dec 16, 2010
  39. darkpixie

    darkpixie Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I would like to suggest that CM post up a poll to the effect, should the student term be removed or reworded. I would be interested to see what % of players would actually support such a term. And well if the response is overwhelming that CWC remove the term then discussion over. CWC should remove it. If they don't I am pretty sure we are all familiar with the term "Vote with your Wallet"

    I'm not a student but this term is predatory in nature, and no matter how you word it, it does more harm than good and opens the door for further bizarro terms. IE. If you are a parent with children under the age of 18 all bets are void. If you have a disability, all bets are void. ETC ETC Ad Nauseum.

    Its a slippery slope we are headed on here...
     

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