Software from FUTUREBET



As a start-up and somewhat inept manager of a casino using the Futurebet software, I have had excellent (and frequent) support from the staff at Worldwide Support systems.

Dave Osborne


Training is not their responsibility. A competent webmaster would have no trouble with a casino website from World Wide Support, but being a virtual novice to the operation of a web site, I had many questions that were patiently and courteously answered by their support staff.


RIP Brian
Your answer once again highlights one of the major problems in this industry - webmasters and businessmen who set up casinos with little if any knowledge of their target market's needs and the intricacies of gambling, casino decision taking and, for one example promo construction.

That is why training SHOULD be the software provider's priority.


Dormant account
Welcome to the board, Dave!
Did they at least point you in the direction of some books on casino math? For example, what your risk of ruin is if you take $500 bets in blackjack with a $10,000 per player bank?


A point well stated. However, just how far should training go? Should they offer a course in HTML, or perhaps Dreamweaver? In my case, except for minor ftp additions and changes, I found it expedient to employ the services of professional webmasters to design pages, set up links, and submit the site to search engines.


Hi Mary,
Casino math is one area where I am competent. Being a native Nevadan, I worked my way through college by dealing casino games in Reno. As for blackjack, I have often supplemented my income as a card counter and fully understand Risk of Ruin both as a player and an online casino manager.


Dormant account
Good. That's the area where the online casino "managers" commit suicide like lemmings to the sea, overbonusing to players or overcommitting a percentage to affiliate advertisers.

For example, The Gaming Club's (Microgaming)recent offer of 15% back on all deposits with a 3X playthrough requirement. No maximum on the deposits.

Maybe you should get back to Futurebet and offer to give classes!

Casino managers should be casino managers, first and foremost. As you say, the web stuff can be hired; but the kinds of decisions about the house's money and risk cannot.


Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
I agree wholeheartedly with Mary. Managers should be managing and not micro-managing. Focus on running the casino and not on web crap that can be delegated to your teenaged nephew.

Casino math is a must. Most casinos kill themselves with poorly executed or feebly written bonus rules. Players are sharp and will turn the thumbscrews when they can.

[size=-2]Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 06:09 pm:
Any comments good or bad about:
Worldwide Support Systems
Duane Mills [/size]

Jesus, where did that come from? I hate when posts sneek up on you like that!


RIP Brian
"Casino managers should be casino managers, first and foremost. As you say, the web stuff can be hired; but the kinds of decisions about the house's money and risk cannot."

This is a point that cannot de over-stressed, and I would add customer relations to it.

You are probably an exception rather than the rule when it somes to casino management, judging by what we see almost daily in terms of plain silly if not downright dishonest decisions.

Client relationships is another area where many casino managements are often found wanting - especially when it comes to slow payouts and questionable lockouts and disqualifications.

This could be an interesting discussion - where do you stand on negative databases? Are you using one or more?

What are your feelings on bonus abuse and where do you personally draw the line and reconcile that with your T&Cs?

What casino are you managing btw?


Dormant account
I want to start an online casino and gaming website. I have a good offer from Futurebet, also known as casinoresellers. Does anybody have any information(reliability,honesty,effectiveness etc.) about them? Can I have a feedback from webmasters who used their software and hosting,and anyone else who know about them? Thank you-I need a reply fast please.}}


RIP Brian
Be very, very cautious and check out iChance, too which is associated with these guys. Check out the Sea of Gold Casino site, where there was a big informative on FB and its executives recently. Lately FB casinos have been slow-paying which is not a good sign.


Dormant account
Misleading information, Jetset.

("Check out the Sea of Gold Casino site, where there was a big informative on FB and its executives recently.")

The "information" you speak of was posted at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

where the SeaofGold Casino licensee is a member, and has been more than willing to respond to any
questions regarding FutureBet, and the associated
companys. He has posted an "overview" of this,
on the sucks forum.

Jetset, perhaps if you went directly to the source, your "information" about things would be a bit more accurate. :rolleyes:


RIP Brian
My warning to be very, very cautious stands - and check out that iChance connection.

Mr. R sounds rather sensitive about this, so I will certainly check my sources - there was definitely some very interesting chapter and verse on Futurebet and its predecessor Global Interactive on a casino website that I thought was seaofgold but I will check that.

Posting in the same *friendly* spirit as MrR, I will certainly not be visiting his site thiscasinosucks anytime now or in the future - I have little respect for the content.


Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Just to throw my two cents in, two weeks ago I had a Future Bet casino nearly placed in my rogue section for some embarassingly piss poor customer service. The operator got back to me and pitched his own bitch about the nightmarish experience he's had with Future Bet's casino customer support. He told me (under conditions of anonymity) that this is one oof the reasons they will be dumping this provider.

Thus it may behoove you to try and contact some of these operators and find out what they've experienced.

As a casual and sometimes active observer, it's my opinion that FB has not been totally upfront about its operations. Particularly the player "insurance" that it has previously boasted about. It's still not clear on how this works exactly and seems as a form of damage control.


RIP Brian
Checked my source as promised and my cautionary on Futurebet stands. The owners of a site called 7 Seas posted the following regarding Futurebet/iChance/GI et al last year.

And you can take Mr R's recommendation and visit his site, of course.

With a little more due diligence research the original enquirer here can find a lot of other stuff on these guys at a number of sites which will lead you to other associations of interest.

"Our Global Interactive aka Story

We were reading several posts in the forums about Global Interactive as a company and everyone seems to be confused if they are good or bad. Well, we have first hand knowledge since we were in business with them since the summer of 1999. I'll explain why in the next several minutes.

In the spring of 1999, a group of partners decided to pursue online gaming as this was at the height of the dot com era and everyone was talking about it. So we decided to look at what the gaming companies had to offer. Since we had a limited budget (under 100k), we were really picky. The big companies, Crytologic, WG (formerly Starnet), BossMedia, and other were so expensive (100+ to start, plus minimum $10-20/month). We had to look for more options. I think we found Global Interactive (
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
) from a link on (can't remember, it was so long ago). We called them up and set up a meeting in Vancouver, BC, Canada since their sales office was located there. We met up with Duanne Mills. Our first impression of the guy was very friendly (found out later, to be the opposite, really slick speaking salesman). We were satisfied with the costs (40k to start which includes sportsbook and casino software), a sub-licensee of World Gaming with the regular 65/35 split and minimum $1k/month and other fees.

Our site was up in the fall of '99 and in a couple of months, we were making money, about 25k profit. What irked us initially was the way accounting was done. What many people don't know if how they take their split.

Say for example, the casino/sportsbook does:

Deposits $100k

Withdrawals: $50k

Gross casino/sportsbook gain (loss) $50k
Chargebacks $1k

Net Casino Gain (Loss) $49k
Global Interactive Fee (35%) ($17.15k)

Transactions Fees/Hosting

Merchant Account 5% deposits (5k)
Rolling Reserve (10% held for 180 days) (10k)
Fraud screen, etc
Total Reserves and Fees ($15k)

Total Payable To Licensee

Net Casino Gain (Loss) $50k
Global Interactive Fee ($17.15k)
Total Reserves and Fees (15k)
Misc Charges, etc
Monthly Revenue: $17.85k

Total Due to Licensee: $17.85k

If you look at the accounting on the above, you will see they took their cut before all the fees which makes a difference on the 65/35 split. A true partnership would share the costs together. Well, this didn't sit well with us so we asked them to change the calculations to a real split. They said no. They explained that all gaming software providers use this method to calculate. We found out this was not the case as we purchased a license from which were more upfront with all their fees and took their cut after all the fees were calculated. So, if you are going to do business with them, ask them how the cut will be made and put it in your contract with them. I'll be surprised if they now take their cut after. It makes a big difference on your income.

Everything was fine throughout 2000 to until the end of 2001 except for the Starnet raid which caused about a month or two of uncertainty. There was the occasional 1 month delay in payments (something to do with Mastercard and WG or the accountant wrote the incorrect routing number when wiring the funds (very common even though we use the same bank account since we started)) during this period but we were really patient and received the money eventually. Things started to go sour in December 2001. We found out that payments were being delayed more than the usual 1 month period. This caused enormous stress as we had to pay for the webmasters and the pay per click engines, banner advertisements, Yahoo/Looksmart/Inktomi/ submissions. At this time, we were maxing all our credit cards. Their excuse was that WG found out they were building their own software, Futurebet and were withholding payments until something can be agreed upon.

Well, after several months of more anguish, it's now March and they finally paid a portion from Dec revenue but by that time, we were almost bankrupt. It helped us a bit but we needed the money from the other months. More excuses about WG and GI followed. Then we received this email from Jeff Hurley [click here]. It looks like they were also delaying the payment so they can fund the development of the new software. This completely took us by surprise as we budgeted the future income already and to have the debt owed to us 'voided' made us frustrated and angry.
During this period, we found that customers were not depositing as much and we were depending heavily on those funds to promote our site to attract more customers. As you can read, we are the leading Global Interactive client at that time. I'm wondering if they treat us like this, just think how they treat their other licensees. Here's another email in May with more delays, now they owe us 170k

At this point, we could no longer trust Global Interactive and were looking for alternatives. We went to the Spring gaming conference in Toronto to see what was out there. We were surprised to find Global Interactive at the conference. But they have now changed to Ichance promoting the Futurebet software. And they had a huge, widescreen plasma monitor to display their software. Wonder how much that cost! They said all their money was tied. Guess splurging money for the monitor to get more gullible customers is a necessity for them. We made a scene at their booth asking why payment was not sent yet with Brian and Jeff Hurley. Duanne and the other employees were hiding in the background. This made them feel uncomfortable so they told us to sit at a table in the back of the conference hall to discuss the situation in private so other potential customers couldn't hear about our problems. We were patient, understanding people so we agreed. The conversation discussed more about WG and GI/Ichance coming close to an agreement to sell the assets of GI to the top licensee of WG. They said once this deal was completed, we would be guaranteed of all the money owed to us including the 6 month rolling reserves (at this point, about 94+k). This was not to be the case again.

If you are reading this and saying we are lying about everything, we will show you our Excel statements from their accountant. Notice the balance brought forward column in both spreadsheets (delayed payments). Here is the email from their accountant in June [email] and our last statement from them, April statements for both 7seas and palominocasino. Look at the rolling reserves (94k+ of our funds are held) and will never be paid by GI. They get to keep that money. Guess more money to make themselves look good to the unsuspecting customers at conferences. Plus we were still sending them traffic from May until middle of August when we converted to another software. So probably another several hundred thousand dollars of lost income.

Another thing you might want to take into consideration is your customers. GI has been known to delay payments to our customers for 1-3 months. Even now, our old customers still have money in their accounts and are blaming us for keeping their money. As you know, it's very difficult to obtain new customers and harder yet to retain them. There are so many casino/sportsbook sites out there and if your customers' payments are delayed, they will go elsewhere and also tell their friends their bad experiences.

So to conclude, you can make your own decisions about this company but you have now been informed and hopefully can make the right decision.

For those starting out, be very cautious with the software providers out there. Don't be afraid to ask a lot of questions and get email addresses of current licensees (don't know if this helps as they can give you the Hotmail email address of the CEO of the company). Frequent the forum boards, go to the conferences, and also meet them at THEIR sales offices. PRICE SHOULD NOT BE THE SOLE DETERMINING FACTOR. Deal with the software provider instead of the middle man (sub-licensee) Think ahead. We didn't. If we had to start over again, we would have borrowed money to pay for better software and support and dealt directly with the software provider. If we did this, we would have retained our old customers, instead of now trying to get new ones. Also, since Paypal no longer accepts gaming transactions, customer deposits have fallen about 80%. Until there are alternative forms of payment, the casino/sportsbook sites will have a hard time surviving in the next year or so.

I would like to hear from other current and former GI licensees or anyone. Post at our forum here.

Thanks for reading our side of the story.

Note: If Brian or Jeff is reading this, we are still waiting for the money. You know our phone number and email addresses.
Contact us and have the courage to settle your debts with us (170k + 94k (rolling) + ??? (from May to August) = a lot of money))

Fortune International LTD.
[][/url] "


RIP Brian
For Rabindra (the most recent enquirer on FB here)

Factor in some checks on SEC filings and a company called Interactive Gaming Systems, too.


Dormant account
Posted by Jetset...

"Posting in the same *friendly* spirit as MrR, I will certainly not be visiting his site thiscasinosucks anytime now or in the future - I have little respect for the content."

More "incorrect" information posted by Jetset. :uhoh:

For an alleged "journalist" you sure seem to have
become a "Fountain of Misinformation".

"I will certainly not be visiting his site..."

My site?? Incorrect again. I am just a site member, as are 612 other members.

"... I have little respect for the content."

How would you know anything about the content??

It is a "Members Only" board, and you, Jetset, are NOT listed as a member. :D
Therefore you must be speculating as to "the content" that is on this site.

And as for this blurb of yours... "Posting in the same *friendly* spirit as MrR... "

If you felt a twinge of sarcasm or animosity in my
post, you are correct. At least I'm upfront about it, unlike you, with your silly and acerbic innuendo, and "holier than thou" attitude.
It is quite understandable to me now, why you receive the large amount of criticism you seem to get on other forums and boards.

Fortunately for me, enough people are aware of my postings and my views on gambling issues, to know that I'm not "goofy", have no "hidden agenda's",
or any of the other inferences you bestow on anyone who "attacks" you, as you so often do on this, and other forums.

I'm not looking to get into a war with you, and I rarely even respond to anything you post anymore, unless it has to do with me, or questions about my credibility. As you've done here in this thread. :mad:


RIP Brian
Quite a tantrum and typically unrestrained, MrR.

I generally avoid commenting on your posts, trite repetitious comments and occasional spamming runs for thiscasinosucks because your sort of over-reaction adds little to the subject under discussion, as is the case here where a member of this board asked for information on a specific subject and I tried to assist. A simple post from yourself to the effect that this issue has been the subject of discussion at tcs would have sufficed as a useful signpost for the enquirer.

Instead you chose to launch a personal attack, seeming to see some reflection on yourself when I was not even thinking of you or *your* site when I tried to help.

You should rein in that rather venomous tendency to personal attack in my view.

However, personal feuds such as the one you are attempting to perpetuate here are discourteous to our host and are probably very boring for the other members to boot - if read at all.

That being the case perhaps you should discharge all that bile with personal attacks in the tcs forum, where I am told you often give full and bitchy rein to your anger and frustrations.

I won't be wasting time reading it, but perhaps you and your cronies will feel better.

Now, can we get back to the topic here, please?