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Software from FUTUREBET

Discussion in 'Ask the Meister' started by yn28, Nov 21, 2002.

  1. yn28

    yn28 Dormant account

    Any comments good or bad about:
    Worldwide Support Systems
    Duane Mills
  2. dosborne

    dosborne Guest

    As a start-up and somewhat inept manager of a casino using the Futurebet software, I have had excellent (and frequent) support from the staff at Worldwide Support systems.

    Dave Osborne
  3. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    How much training did they give you?
  4. dosborne

    dosborne Guest

    Training is not their responsibility. A competent webmaster would have no trouble with a casino website from World Wide Support, but being a virtual novice to the operation of a web site, I had many questions that were patiently and courteously answered by their support staff.
  5. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Your answer once again highlights one of the major problems in this industry - webmasters and businessmen who set up casinos with little if any knowledge of their target market's needs and the intricacies of gambling, casino decision taking and, for one example promo construction.

    That is why training SHOULD be the software provider's priority.
  6. mary

    mary Dormant account

    Welcome to the board, Dave!
    Did they at least point you in the direction of some books on casino math? For example, what your risk of ruin is if you take $500 bets in blackjack with a $10,000 per player bank?
  7. dosborne

    dosborne Guest

    A point well stated. However, just how far should training go? Should they offer a course in HTML, or perhaps Dreamweaver? In my case, except for minor ftp additions and changes, I found it expedient to employ the services of professional webmasters to design pages, set up links, and submit the site to search engines.
  8. dosborne

    dosborne Guest

    Hi Mary,
    Casino math is one area where I am competent. Being a native Nevadan, I worked my way through college by dealing casino games in Reno. As for blackjack, I have often supplemented my income as a card counter and fully understand Risk of Ruin both as a player and an online casino manager.
  9. mary

    mary Dormant account

    Good. That's the area where the online casino "managers" commit suicide like lemmings to the sea, overbonusing to players or overcommitting a percentage to affiliate advertisers.

    For example, The Gaming Club's (Microgaming)recent offer of 15% back on all deposits with a 3X playthrough requirement. No maximum on the deposits.

    Maybe you should get back to Futurebet and offer to give classes!

    Casino managers should be casino managers, first and foremost. As you say, the web stuff can be hired; but the kinds of decisions about the house's money and risk cannot.
  10. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    I agree wholeheartedly with Mary. Managers should be managing and not micro-managing. Focus on running the casino and not on web crap that can be delegated to your teenaged nephew.

    Casino math is a must. Most casinos kill themselves with poorly executed or feebly written bonus rules. Players are sharp and will turn the thumbscrews when they can.

    [size=-2]Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 06:09 pm:
    Any comments good or bad about:
    Worldwide Support Systems
    Duane Mills [/size]

    Jesus, where did that come from? I hate when posts sneek up on you like that!
  11. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    "Casino managers should be casino managers, first and foremost. As you say, the web stuff can be hired; but the kinds of decisions about the house's money and risk cannot."

    This is a point that cannot de over-stressed, and I would add customer relations to it.

    You are probably an exception rather than the rule when it somes to casino management, judging by what we see almost daily in terms of plain silly if not downright dishonest decisions.

    Client relationships is another area where many casino managements are often found wanting - especially when it comes to slow payouts and questionable lockouts and disqualifications.

    This could be an interesting discussion - where do you stand on negative databases? Are you using one or more?

    What are your feelings on bonus abuse and where do you personally draw the line and reconcile that with your T&Cs?

    What casino are you managing btw?
  12. rabindra

    rabindra Dormant account

    I want to start an online casino and gaming website. I have a good offer from Futurebet, also known as casinoresellers. Does anybody have any information(reliability,honesty,effectiveness etc.) about them? Can I have a feedback from webmasters who used their software and hosting,and anyone else who know about them? Thank you-I need a reply fast please.}}
  13. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Be very, very cautious and check out iChance, too which is associated with these guys. Check out the Sea of Gold Casino site, where there was a big informative on FB and its executives recently. Lately FB casinos have been slow-paying which is not a good sign.
  14. mrracetrack

    mrracetrack Dormant account

    Misleading information, Jetset.

    ("Check out the Sea of Gold Casino site, where there was a big informative on FB and its executives recently.")

    The "information" you speak of was posted at

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    where the SeaofGold Casino licensee is a member, and has been more than willing to respond to any
    questions regarding FutureBet, and the associated
    companys. He has posted an "overview" of this,
    on the sucks forum.

    Jetset, perhaps if you went directly to the source, your "information" about things would be a bit more accurate. :rolleyes:
  15. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    My warning to be very, very cautious stands - and check out that iChance connection.

    Mr. R sounds rather sensitive about this, so I will certainly check my sources - there was definitely some very interesting chapter and verse on Futurebet and its predecessor Global Interactive on a casino website that I thought was seaofgold but I will check that.

    Posting in the same *friendly* spirit as MrR, I will certainly not be visiting his site thiscasinosucks anytime now or in the future - I have little respect for the content.
  16. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Just to throw my two cents in, two weeks ago I had a Future Bet casino nearly placed in my rogue section for some embarassingly piss poor customer service. The operator got back to me and pitched his own bitch about the nightmarish experience he's had with Future Bet's casino customer support. He told me (under conditions of anonymity) that this is one oof the reasons they will be dumping this provider.

    Thus it may behoove you to try and contact some of these operators and find out what they've experienced.

    As a casual and sometimes active observer, it's my opinion that FB has not been totally upfront about its operations. Particularly the player "insurance" that it has previously boasted about. It's still not clear on how this works exactly and seems as a form of damage control.
  17. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Checked my source as promised and my cautionary on Futurebet stands. The owners of a site called 7 Seas posted the following regarding Futurebet/iChance/GI et al last year.

    And you can take Mr R's recommendation and visit his site, of course.

    With a little more due diligence research the original enquirer here can find a lot of other stuff on these guys at a number of sites which will lead you to other associations of interest.

    "Our Global Interactive aka Ichance.com/Futurebet.com/Worldwidesupport.com/Idollar.com Story

    We were reading several posts in the forums about Global Interactive as a company and everyone seems to be confused if they are good or bad. Well, we have first hand knowledge since we were in business with them since the summer of 1999. I'll explain why in the next several minutes.

    In the spring of 1999, a group of partners decided to pursue online gaming as this was at the height of the dot com era and everyone was talking about it. So we decided to look at what the gaming companies had to offer. Since we had a limited budget (under 100k), we were really picky. The big companies, Crytologic, WG (formerly Starnet), BossMedia, and other were so expensive (100+ to start, plus minimum $10-20/month). We had to look for more options. I think we found Global Interactive (You must register/login in order to see the link.) from a link on Startcasino.com (can't remember, it was so long ago). We called them up and set up a meeting in Vancouver, BC, Canada since their sales office was located there. We met up with Duanne Mills. Our first impression of the guy was very friendly (found out later, to be the opposite, really slick speaking salesman). We were satisfied with the costs (40k to start which includes sportsbook and casino software), a sub-licensee of World Gaming with the regular 65/35 split and minimum $1k/month and other fees.

    Our site was up in the fall of '99 and in a couple of months, we were making money, about 25k profit. What irked us initially was the way accounting was done. What many people don't know if how they take their split.

    Say for example, the casino/sportsbook does:

    Deposits $100k

    Withdrawals: $50k

    Gross casino/sportsbook gain (loss) $50k
    Chargebacks $1k

    Net Casino Gain (Loss) $49k
    Global Interactive Fee (35%) ($17.15k)

    Transactions Fees/Hosting

    Merchant Account 5% deposits (5k)
    Rolling Reserve (10% held for 180 days) (10k)
    Fraud screen, etc
    Total Reserves and Fees ($15k)

    Total Payable To Licensee

    Net Casino Gain (Loss) $50k
    Global Interactive Fee ($17.15k)
    Total Reserves and Fees (15k)
    Misc Charges, etc
    Monthly Revenue: $17.85k

    Total Due to Licensee: $17.85k

    If you look at the accounting on the above, you will see they took their cut before all the fees which makes a difference on the 65/35 split. A true partnership would share the costs together. Well, this didn't sit well with us so we asked them to change the calculations to a real split. They said no. They explained that all gaming software providers use this method to calculate. We found out this was not the case as we purchased a license from gamblingsoftware.com which were more upfront with all their fees and took their cut after all the fees were calculated. So, if you are going to do business with them, ask them how the cut will be made and put it in your contract with them. I'll be surprised if they now take their cut after. It makes a big difference on your income.

    Everything was fine throughout 2000 to until the end of 2001 except for the Starnet raid which caused about a month or two of uncertainty. There was the occasional 1 month delay in payments (something to do with Mastercard and WG or the accountant wrote the incorrect routing number when wiring the funds (very common even though we use the same bank account since we started)) during this period but we were really patient and received the money eventually. Things started to go sour in December 2001. We found out that payments were being delayed more than the usual 1 month period. This caused enormous stress as we had to pay for the webmasters and the pay per click engines, banner advertisements, Yahoo/Looksmart/Inktomi/ submissions. At this time, we were maxing all our credit cards. Their excuse was that WG found out they were building their own software, Futurebet and were withholding payments until something can be agreed upon.

    Well, after several months of more anguish, it's now March and they finally paid a portion from Dec revenue but by that time, we were almost bankrupt. It helped us a bit but we needed the money from the other months. More excuses about WG and GI followed. Then we received this email from Jeff Hurley [click here]. It looks like they were also delaying the payment so they can fund the development of the new software. This completely took us by surprise as we budgeted the future income already and to have the debt owed to us 'voided' made us frustrated and angry.
    During this period, we found that customers were not depositing as much and we were depending heavily on those funds to promote our site to attract more customers. As you can read, we are the leading Global Interactive client at that time. I'm wondering if they treat us like this, just think how they treat their other licensees. Here's another email in May with more delays, now they owe us 170k This email is not visible to you.
  18. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    For Rabindra (the most recent enquirer on FB here)

    Factor in some checks on SEC filings and a company called Interactive Gaming Systems, too.
  19. mrracetrack

    mrracetrack Dormant account

    Posted by Jetset...

    "Posting in the same *friendly* spirit as MrR, I will certainly not be visiting his site thiscasinosucks anytime now or in the future - I have little respect for the content."

    More "incorrect" information posted by Jetset. :uhoh:

    For an alleged "journalist" you sure seem to have
    become a "Fountain of Misinformation".

    "I will certainly not be visiting his site..."

    My site?? Incorrect again. I am just a site member, as are 612 other members.

    "... I have little respect for the content."

    How would you know anything about the content??

    It is a "Members Only" board, and you, Jetset, are NOT listed as a member. :D
    Therefore you must be speculating as to "the content" that is on this site.

    And as for this blurb of yours... "Posting in the same *friendly* spirit as MrR... "

    If you felt a twinge of sarcasm or animosity in my
    post, you are correct. At least I'm upfront about it, unlike you, with your silly and acerbic innuendo, and "holier than thou" attitude.
    It is quite understandable to me now, why you receive the large amount of criticism you seem to get on other forums and boards.

    Fortunately for me, enough people are aware of my postings and my views on gambling issues, to know that I'm not "goofy", have no "hidden agenda's",
    or any of the other inferences you bestow on anyone who "attacks" you, as you so often do on this, and other forums.

    I'm not looking to get into a war with you, and I rarely even respond to anything you post anymore, unless it has to do with me, or questions about my credibility. As you've done here in this thread. :mad:
  20. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Quite a tantrum and typically unrestrained, MrR.

    I generally avoid commenting on your posts, trite repetitious comments and occasional spamming runs for thiscasinosucks because your sort of over-reaction adds little to the subject under discussion, as is the case here where a member of this board asked for information on a specific subject and I tried to assist. A simple post from yourself to the effect that this issue has been the subject of discussion at tcs would have sufficed as a useful signpost for the enquirer.

    Instead you chose to launch a personal attack, seeming to see some reflection on yourself when I was not even thinking of you or *your* site when I tried to help.

    You should rein in that rather venomous tendency to personal attack in my view.

    However, personal feuds such as the one you are attempting to perpetuate here are discourteous to our host and are probably very boring for the other members to boot - if read at all.

    That being the case perhaps you should discharge all that bile with personal attacks in the tcs forum, where I am told you often give full and bitchy rein to your anger and frustrations.

    I won't be wasting time reading it, but perhaps you and your cronies will feel better.

    Now, can we get back to the topic here, please?

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