Roguish Slotsoffortune (Rival Casino) steals my money

[maxd]

You are an arse licker ...

Must I remind you to heed the Forum Rules? The following applies directly to the tone and content of your recent post(s):

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If you continue to ignore the Rules you'll suffer the consequences, plain and simple. And "Oh sorry, I was so upset" is no excuse: behave respectfully or find somewhere else to post.

Surprised that Bryan hasn't had a piece to say in this thread yet. ...

As mentioned elsewhere Bryan is on the road and somewhat otherwise occupied just now. I'm sure he'll get around to reading this over and commenting but you may need to give it a few days.

 

[all4greed]

Heador112 -

You said the wagering was 50x, how much did you deposit and how much was the bonus?

 

[heador112]

Sorry Maxd .It will not happen again .

The circumstances of this issue and the way "Sof" handles this issue make me sick and i take their wrong and missleading accusation maybe a bit to personal.
Of course this is no excuse . I will watch my language first before i post again .

Heador112 -

You said the wagering was 50x, how much did you deposit and how much was the bonus?

It was a 100 € deposit and a non cashable Bonus of 110 € with a 50 times playthrough . I cannot remeber if it had a max cashout or not .

They have a very agressive marketing you will receive alot of emails with special bonuses . They encourage you to take the bonuses . If you lose no problem you will receive more bonuses . If you win they confiscate your money , because you claimed the bonuses they have sent you and more important you have won , this is called bonus abuse

Looks like this is the new stategy to solve the problem with the financial difficulties of the white label rival casinos .

 

[all4greed]

It was a 100 € deposit and a non cashable Bonus of 110 € with a 50 times playthrough . I cannot remeber if it had a max cashout or not .

I should have asked about the exact deposit/bonus way back when.

That's a crappy bonus, has outrageous wagering requirements, and not even cashable. Hardly highly desirable. I get 100/100 25x-30x fully cashable from other Rivals. This just makes their claim(s) more ridiculous and pathetic.

They should give you award just for making play through on this POS bonus.

 

[SoF]

My name is Stephen and I am one of the Casino Hosts at Slots of Fortune. Some of you may already know me from the casino. I am very familiar with this case since this account was assigned to me and I would like to provide a clear picture of what has really happened.

There are issues with the particular account beyond the advantage play that took place. There are discrepancies with the information provided that we are unable to post here. We respect the privacy of all account holders at our casino regardless of their behavior or intentions. If he was interested on resolving this, he should have filed a PAB and we would have presented this information to CM.

We have already issued a refund of his deposit associated with the advantage play. We also offered him an additional refund of his remaining lost deposits in an effort to show him that he is not welcome at the casino and it is not our policy to allow bonus abusers to play regardless of the outcome of their actions. So we have agreed to pay a total of 300 EURO in a form of a refund from a win of 1178 EURO. If indeed the particular account was just a winning player why will we go to all this trouble for a small amount such as 878 EURO. Why does he bring this public after three months? Some bits just don’t add up in this story.

We have also responded quickly to this thread and removed the clause involved. We did not want to confuse players and have any ambiguous interpretations.

I see winning players every day as a part of my job and I know we always pay all of them. This is the second complaint we have in two years, if we were so bad shouldn't they be piling up? If you do a forum search about our casino you won't find any unresolved complaints, on the other hand a search about the player reveals that he has the same security issues with another casino.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/cassava-have-stolen-from-me.33620/

It is convenient to come and attack us in public, label us as rogue and unfair. Even be abusive and make claims that have no basis.
But we should wonder what he is doing wrong, and other casino's have similar issues with his account.

Also by being in daily contact with players I know that everyone wants to get a good deal and clear the rollover but the majority of you don't do what bonus abusers do even though you bet smart. Betting smart is different to betting systematically in a specific way and showing no loyalty.

P.S The bonus taken was 105% Bonus, 25xb+d, No Max Cashout.

 

[Pulver]

Hmm,

First he abused a 105% Bonus, 25xb+d (!!!) bonus with his betting style, then he became part of a German Syndicate, and now there is something wrong with his adress?

To even accuse someone who is playing a 105% 25xb+d slots bonus of "bonus abuse" in the first place is quite outrageous in my eyes.

I mean, what's next, is he linked to the Sicilian mafia aswell?

 

[Swede]

I can't quite make sense of pulver's points. Is there more to the story?

We all like to know.

 

[nisosbar]

If he was interested on resolving this, he should have filed a PAB and we would have presented this information to CM.

...

We have also responded quickly to this thread and removed the clause involved. We did not want to confuse players and have any ambiguous interpretations.

...

This is the second complaint we have in two years, if we were so bad shouldn't they be piling up? If you do a forum search about our casino you won't find any unresolved complaints, on the other hand a search about the player reveals that he has the same security issues with another casino.

I have never deposited there, so I really have no dog in this fight, but to be fair, these are all really good points. I don't know what happened, or what the nature of their information is, but I would like to see the complainant file a PAB. Obviously, he can do what he wants, but I have never read any complaint here on CM about Slots of Fortune, nor have I read anyone else here state that they have personally had a problem with Slots of Fortune. So I don't know what to think, but I haven't seen enough yet to condemn the casino.

 

[jetset]

I can't quite make sense of pulver's points. Is there more to the story?

We all like to know.

Perhaps the player would clarify exactly what bonus he took? There seems to be a discrepancy between his claims and those of casino rep 'Stephen', who says:

"P.S The bonus taken was 105% Bonus, 25xb+d, No Max Cashout."

That apart, imo the casino is on thin ice with this bonus abuse accusation - at the best of times a very questionable charge to make especially when based on ambigious and subjective concepts like "the spirit of the offer", "loyalty" and "advantage play."

How many times does it have to be said before casino operators get it - you construct the bonus offers and set the terms and conditions (putting the player at a disadvantage from the get-go) - if the player wins despite this minefield, then pay him or her! Once you've met your obligations feel free to ban the player from future promos or even action....but pay what is due first.

I'm not sure how much credible evidence the casino has on its other allegations against this player, but with this issue gathering momentum it may be in their best interests to engage with Max regardless of whether a PAB has been made and present some substantiation rather than hinting at irregularities but then retiring behind the 'security' smokescreen.

 

[heador112]

There are issues with the particular account beyond the advantage play that took place. There are discrepancies with the information provided that we are unable to post here. We respect the privacy of all account holders at our casino regardless of their behavior or intentions. If he was interested on resolving this, he should have filed a PAB and we would have presented this information to CM.

If Maxd allows me to PAB it will do it !!!
You have already talked about these discrepancies you accused me off a "questionable " adress .

You ignored that this "questionable" adress is at the back of my ID card and i can easily proove there nothing "questionable".

I would like to remind you that i filled a complain after 2 or 3 weeks at Gambling Grumbles and the result was a skull with crossbones for Slot of Fortune Casino .

We have already issued a refund of his deposit associated with the advantage play. We also offered him an additional refund of his remaining lost deposits in an effort to show him that he is not welcome at the casino and it is not our policy to allow bonus abusers to play regardless of the outcome of their actions. So we have agreed to pay a total of 300 EURO in a form of a refund from a win of 1178 EURO. If indeed the particular account was just a winning player why will we go to all this trouble for a small amount such as 878 EURO. Why does he bring this public after three months? Some bits just don’t add up in this story.

You have only paid 100 €

Another 200 € have never been paid !

It sounds like you want me to publish your "agreement" ?
I need a PDF converter for that .
I will do that this evening dont worry......

This issue was made public in August on Gambling Grumbles , as i said i was moving mid Augsut thats why it took a bit longer i had other things to do . But from now on you can no longer hide into the shadows .
Now i have time for you "Stephen" .

This is the second complaint we have in two years, if we were so bad shouldn't they be piling up? If you do a forum search about our casino you won't find any unresolved complaints, on the other hand a search about the player reveals that he has the same security issues with another casino.

Link Outdated / Removed

It is convenient to come and attack us in public, label us as rogue and unfair. Even be abusive and make claims that have no basis.
But we should wonder what he is doing wrong, and other casino's have similar issues with his account.

Also by being in daily contact with players I know that everyone wants to get a good deal and clear the rollover but the majority of you don't do what bonus abusers do even though you bet smart. Betting smart is different to betting systematically in a specific way and showing no loyalty.

P.S The bonus taken was 105% Bonus, 25xb+d, No Max Cashout.

What a poor response Stephen . You are not able to justify your theft of my money and try to better your position with posting links to other issues .
Steven i am playing in Online Casinos ! What do you espect ? Of course there are bad things happening . There are alot of black sheeps in this industry . I prefer to gamble in land based casinos , because i always get my winnings and i see the people . Its not like Online gaming where total stranger ripp you off . This kind of scumm only happens online .

Stephen , the past doesnt matter . Its a fact that Rival white label Casino have now financial problems . Thats why these things happens . Thats why TIV ripps off 80 K , thats why other Rival Casinos confiscate winnings based on bonus bans across the Rival plattform and thats why you steal my money and bandy a pack of lies about my person to safe your ass.
As you can see it is not working , the people on this forum are not stupid !
This is not about a security issue . For your records Cassava Enterprises is on the "No can do list " and many people had issues there . Lets say a player is ripped of by virtual , does that mean the Player is part of a syndicate , a bonus abuser or a cyber terrorist ?

 

[heador112]

Perhaps the player would clarify exactly what bonus he took? There seems to be a discrepancy between his claims and those of casino rep 'Stephen', who says:

"P.S The bonus taken was 105% Bonus, 25xb+d, No Max Cashout."

Well they have sent me weekend bonuses . I played first the 110 % Bonus and then after losing the 105 % Bonus .


Its the first time "Stephen" , "Michael Hill" , or whoever he/she is said the truth at this thread n.

 

[KasinoKing]

There are issues with the particular account beyond the advantage play that took place...

We have already issued a refund of his deposit associated with the advantage play....
...and it is not our policy to allow bonus abusers to play regardless of the outcome of their actions.

Hi Stephen,
Advantage play? Bonus abuse?
Please can you detail in plain English exactly which rule(s) relating to the bonus he took that this player actually broke?
Thanks,
KK

 

[heador112]

We have also responded quickly to this thread and removed the clause involved. We did not want to confuse players and have any ambiguous interpretations.

The rule why my money was stolen was removed . Thats why you should pay my money !!!!




@Swede and Nisosbar


They have never accused me of the syndicate and wrong documents stuff before i have a email confirmation of aceptet documents .

Of course they do not commentm this .

Please search the thread and you will find a email from the manager .

In this meail they explain that they confiscatet my money based on breaking the betsize rule . (doing small bets ).


No talk about syndicate , wrong information etc. !!!

The accusations startet after 3rd parties were involved and Slots of fortune realized the reason to steal my money can damage their reputation and Affilates will list them on blacklists .

That was the point when they startet the accusations . I can proove many of their accusation are not valid . Of course they dont comment it and ignore it .


Please be careful they may have removed the terms , but there is a much more dangerous term active at their site :


The Casino audits cash-ins to determine if winnings are a result of promotion abuse. It is possible for promotion abuse to occur even though wagering is compliant with the standard terms and conditions and bonus system rules. If promotion abuse is identified, then the Casino reserves the right at management’s discretion to take the following action(s) against the abusive player: A) may be banned from receiving or redeeming further promotions
B) may be banned from play in the casino
B) may have account terminated with immediate effect
C) Player information forwarded to a central database resulting in players being barred from receiving bonuses at any other casinos.
D) Cash-ins may be denied, reversed and/or considered void. In such cases, only original purchase amount may be allowed for withdrawal.


This term allows them to confiscate your winnings for the same reason why my money was stolen .

They can and will enforce this terms if you win . Especially with a high win . I think they belong to Silverstone like "This is vegas " who ripped off 80 K .



As you can see there is actually no improovement . Avoid them at all costs .

 

[Mousey]

First, I would like to chill a moment and thank the casino rep for braving our ire and posting the casino's side of this complaint.

Now... with that bit of courtesy said and done...

If the player is a known 'bonus abuser' (there is NO such thing ) he should have been caught in the infamous Rival bonus ban net -- yet he was allowed to deposit and claim bonuses more than once. I'd like to know just who maintains this player data base of known 'wicked' players. (And I don't mean the database among processors necessary to weed out fraud and problem charge back players. One has nothing to do with the other.)

I have seen no accusation of player fraud (multiple sign ups, fake ID, theft of another's CC, etc.). Granted, I don't understand about syndicates, but if the bonus is properly thought out, what's the diff who plays the money?

The OP met the T&C and WR.

The casino didn't like the way the player played SLOTS (for crying out loud) on a -EV bonus. They even claim there was 'strategy' used that increased his likelihood of winning... on SLOTS.

Am I the only one that feels like Alice down the rabbit hole???

 

[nisosbar]

The casino didn't like the way the player played SLOTS (for crying out loud) on a -EV bonus. They even claim there was 'strategy' used that increased his likelihood of winning... on SLOTS.

Am I the only one that feels like Alice down the rabbit hole???

No you aren't - on this point, I entirely agree with others here, and would suggest that any casino with that term should be considered for disaccreditation. I'm glad the casino agreed to eliminate that term.

Rival bonuses are almost always cashout maxxed TO BEGIN WITH in order to limit their potential losses, so even on the off-chance that someone runs very well, the damage is contained right from the start.

Further, the long-term negative expected value (to the player) probability of EVERY SINGLE SLOT governs the game whether you bet 20 cents or 20 dollars. So NOTHING the player can do can alter the fact that the House is more likely to win than you are ON EVERY SINGLE SPIN.

 

[KasinoKing]

No you aren't - on this point, I entirely agree with others here, and would suggest that any casino with that term should be considered for disaccreditation. I'm glad the casino agreed to eliminate that term.

Rival bonuses are almost always cashout maxxed TO BEGIN WITH in order to limit their potential losses, so even on the off-chance that someone runs very well, the damage is contained right from the start.

Further, the long-term negative expected value (to the player) probability of EVERY SINGLE SLOT governs the game whether you bet 20 cents or 20 dollars. So NOTHING the player can do can alter the fact that the House is more likely to win than you are ON EVERY SINGLE SPIN.

Me three!
If there really was a way to "abuse bonuses" with slots play I'm sure we would have all heard about it & be doing it by now... I know i would!

KK

 

[Tengil]

Just a notice that the way heador played is known as two-tier betting, its the only way to gain EV with non cashable bonuses. You bet maximum until you reach your target and then grind out the WR.

Its high risk and the rate of bust is probably over 90% but its still EV+ in the long run (as long as the casino pays). Its not against casino T&Cs as long as you dont brake any max bet rules.

And in this case no rules seems to have been broken so just pay and design your bonuses better next time.

 

[winnington]

Just a notice that the way heador played is known as two-tier betting, its the only way to gain EV with non cashable bonuses. You bet maximum until you reach your target and then grind out the WR.

Its high risk and the rate of bust is probably over 90% but its still EV+ in the long run (as long as the casino pays). Its not against casino T&Cs as long as you dont brake any max bet rules.

And in this case no rules seems to have been broken so just pay and design your bonuses better next time.

2-tiered betting doesn't necessarily make any non-cashable bonus EV+, but it increases the odds for the player.

50xb cashable bonuses would generally be EV-, so I doubt there is a betting strategy to make a 50xb non-cashable bonus bonus EV+ unless the bonus was well over 100% (didn't read the entire thread to see the % claimed).

 

[Tengil]

2-tiered betting doesn't necessarily make any non-cashable bonus EV+, but it increases the odds for the player.

50xb cashable bonuses would generally be EV-, so I doubt there is a betting strategy to make a 50xb non-cashable bonus bonus EV+ unless the bonus was well over 100% (didn't read the entire thread to see the % claimed).

Seems to have been a 105%. With a target high enough you could get some EV out of it but the risk of bust would be very high (well over 90%). So the risk would be too high for such a low reward IMO. And with Rivals you dont know for how long you get bonuses, would suck to lose 20-30 in a row and then be bonusbanned.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just a notice that the way heador played is known as two-tier betting, its the only way to gain EV with non cashable bonuses. You bet maximum until you reach your target and then grind out the WR.

Its high risk and the rate of bust is probably over 90% but its still EV+ in the long run (as long as the casino pays). Its not against casino T&Cs as long as you dont brake any max bet rules.

And in this case no rules seems to have been broken so just pay and design your bonuses better next time.

Isn't this just "smart betting", which the rep said was OK? The rep said that the OP bet in a systematic (and abusive) manner. There seems little else one can do with slots, "smart betting" IS also the same as this "systematic manner".

The rep STILL refuses to say WHY the infamous Rival bonus banning system let his casino down so badly. This player was "clearly" abusing bonuses across the entire Rival platform, yet the Rival central database failed completely to notice this, even though it "notices" many MINOR infringements, such as "not playing on beyond WR by xx%".

Instead of cashing out when WR was met, maximising the win, the OP then THREW AWAY some 500 credits (about HALF his net win) on a few max bet spins. A REAL "bonus abuser" would not do this, they would use that 500 to take FURTHER bonuses, enabling them to have 1000+ credits to fire off max bet spins with.

Despite the removal of the term, and the claim that only "one or two" players actually have their winnings confiscated, how does any player know that THEY are not going to end up being the "third player" to have their winnings confiscated.

Despite being targeted by this alleged syndicate, ONLY "one or two" players have been "busted". Seems like a very small syndicate to me.

In short, it seems you are not ALLOWED to play to WIN at Rival casinos, you are expected to play "dumb" and lose all your money. If players feel they are going to have their play put under the microscope with a view to finding a reason not to pay, they WILL drift away from the casino, and prospective players will be frightened off. This, apparently, is EXACTLY what has been happening recently across the whole Rival platform.

 

[Tengil]

Isn't this just "smart betting", which the rep said was OK? The rep said that the OP bet in a systematic (and abusive) manner. There seems little else one can do with slots, "smart betting" IS also the same as this "systematic manner".

The rep STILL refuses to say WHY the infamous Rival bonus banning system let his casino down so badly. This player was "clearly" abusing bonuses across the entire Rival platform, yet the Rival central database failed completely to notice this, even though it "notices" many MINOR infringements, such as "not playing on beyond WR by xx%".

Instead of cashing out when WR was met, maximising the win, the OP then THREW AWAY some 500 credits (about HALF his net win) on a few max bet spins. A REAL "bonus abuser" would not do this, they would use that 500 to take FURTHER bonuses, enabling them to have 1000+ credits to fire off max bet spins with.

Despite the removal of the term, and the claim that only "one or two" players actually have their winnings confiscated, how does any player know that THEY are not going to end up being the "third player" to have their winnings confiscated.

Despite being targeted by this alleged syndicate, ONLY "one or two" players have been "busted". Seems like a very small syndicate to me.

In short, it seems you are not ALLOWED to play to WIN at Rival casinos, you are expected to play "dumb" and lose all your money. If players feel they are going to have their play put under the microscope with a view to finding a reason not to pay, they WILL drift away from the casino, and prospective players will be frightened off. This, apparently, is EXACTLY what has been happening recently across the whole Rival platform.

It seems to mainly be based on winnings, not the style of play.

The border between two-tier to maximize EV and "recreational" play is very dim on slots. Its quite natural to try to "secure" your win after a good hit by lowering your betsize and I think quite a few players on this forum sometimes like to start with big bets (especially if the bonus is non cashable).

 

[jetset]

This condition to my eye is equivalent to the notorious FU clause...it effectively means that the casino can do pretty much whatever it wants regardless of its own T&Cs.

The Casino audits cash-ins to determine if winnings are a result of promotion abuse. It is possible for promotion abuse to occur even though wagering is compliant with the standard terms and conditions and bonus system rules. If promotion abuse is identified, then the Casino reserves the right at management’s discretion to take the following action(s) against the abusive player:

A) may be banned from receiving or redeeming further promotions
B) may be banned from play in the casino
B) may have account terminated with immediate effect
C) Player information forwarded to a central database resulting in players being barred from receiving bonuses at any other casinos.
D) Cash-ins may be denied, reversed and/or considered void. In such cases, only original purchase amount may be allowed for withdrawal.

 

[maxd]

If Maxd allows me to PAB it will do it !!!

I've looked over your PAB case records and although you've had your fair share of exceptions to the "One Free Shot" rule already I see that at least two of those should be set aside because of special circumstances.

You know you should have considered the PAB route at the very beginning of this, yes? It never hurts to ask and all these posts can seriously damage your case, not to mention making my efforts much harder for much less chance of a successful outcome.

Anyway, I'll discuss this with Bryan and get back to you.

LATER: Bryan is looking into this but he's on the road this week again so things are going to take a little time. The PAB is a no-go for the time being.

 

[heador112]

Good to here Max. Let me know as soon as you and Bryan have anything new or if you want me to PAB later , just contact me .

 

[all4greed]

We have already issued a refund of his deposit associated with the advantage play. We also offered him an additional refund of his remaining lost deposits in an effort to show him that he is not welcome at the casino and it is not our policy to allow bonus abusers to play regardless of the outcome of their actions. So we have agreed to pay a total of 300 EURO in a form of a refund from a win of 1178 EURO. If indeed the particular account was just a winning player why will we go to all this trouble for a small amount such as 878 EURO. Why does he bring this public after three months? Some bits just don’t add up in this story.

Your casino has lost a hell of a lot more than 878 Euro over this mess.

By your own admittance you claim this player was a known bonus abuser but you accepted his deposit. It wasn't an issue until the player won but you sure were happy to allow them to deposit until then.

Mix in allegations of ID problems, member of a syndicate, etc. after the advantage play excuse and you've made a loss of credibility recipe.

Pay the person 878 Euro, attempt to redeem yourself, and move on. It's called damage control - read up on it...