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Roguish Slotsoffortune (Rival Casino) steals my money

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by heador112, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. heador112

    heador112 Experienced Member PABnononaccred3

    I know its not a good idead to play at Rival while labels , but i ignored all warning and played at slotsoffortune.com.

    I took a very bad bonus with a 50 times playthrough not cashable only for slots . Well when i finished the playthrough i cashed out 1178 €.

    3 days later i received the following message :

    "Dear ........,
    Regrettably your withdrawal has been denied due to bonus abuse.
    Your last deposit has been funded back to your account and you may log
    in to withdraw this.
    Sincerely,
    Slots of Fortune Customer Suppor"


    When i asked support what i made wrong they told i had broken the following rule :

    "Additional examples of irregular betting patterns may include and not limited to placing, single bets equal or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the current bonus credited to the players account, until such time that wagering requirements have been met. Placing maximum bets with the bonus funds until big wins occur, then switching their betting patterns by placing minimum and/or low bets in order to clear the wagering requirements."



    I have not bet more then 30 % . I havent even bet more then 20 %.

    The reason why these rogue have stolen my money is ridicilous :

    I changed to a lower betsize after i had a good win !!!!

    Thats why they steal my money :eek2:

    During the wagering i increased my betsize again and played in the end with a slot progression which was not succesful and made me lose more then 500 € . I was not playing low risk or something like that .

    Its the worst and most ridicilous rip off i have ever experienced . They told me to refund all my deposits but they havent done it .

    There Management is extremely incompetent i think if you guys are interestet i will publish the "agreement" they have sent me and the management email.

    Avoid slotsoffortune.com at all costs :mad:
     
    7 people like this.
  2. rockycatt

    rockycatt meistercatt CAG MM

    consider geting your seed money and hightailing , you cant get a better deal from a robber than that [ rival needs to make a state of there business model ]

    to the 4 corners of the world shame on them
     
  3. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Fixed it for you.

    And of course what a bogus excuse.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Another nail in the coffin for Rival. This could cover almost EVERY possible betting pattern that players might make. Players do NOT bet exactly the same amount during an entire session. I vary my bets, sometimes quite widely. I expect to get paid when I am LUCKY enough to win.

    Rival should stipulate what IS allowed, it would be a shorter paragraph.

    Since we KNOW that Rival have this "trigger happy" database to deny promotions to "bad players", they should not even BE in the position of confiscating winnings after the fact. It seems clear that now they are confiscating winnings from players who have NO previous history of "bonus abuse" in the system, and are using pretty wide ranging and vague justifications for doing so.

    We ALSO know that Rival are/have been in SERIOUS financial difficulties, and this is NOT the way to protect the "bottom line". It will end up being short term gain, followed by long term PAIN.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. coxwel

    coxwel Senior Member PABnononaccred MM

    thats pretty bad for you heador :mad: seems you have badluck with non-paying casinos this year.


    i still felt secure on most rivals, the whitelabels always needed long time to pay out but paid!, but these bonus abuse accusations out of nothing are very alarming.


    you didnt abused anything, you took a bonus with 50times wr and still made a good profit, thats pure luck. very odd how they explain their behaviour.


    i guess these guys wont change in their opinion, but if they handle their business like this its pure rogue. anybody who takes a bonus on slotsoffortune and wins! they can decide to pay or not, as bonus abuse is always explainable for them. they talk of slots and betting patterns in one sentence, omg!:lolup:


    i feel sorry for you they ripped you off this shady way, let them pay back every single cent deposited!


    imo this brings a very bad tatse to the rival white labels! i always appreciated how the rival mother paid at least owed withdrawals of shady operators, so they shouldnt allow anybody using rival brand doing such simple stupid bonus abuse accusation tricks!

    ps: some days ago i received a promo email from slof with a 3500% bonus o_O:(

    cheers

    coxwel
     
  6. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Thats the kind of thing the Virtual casinos churn out. It would be pretty EASY to beat these once in a while, and when you did, you would REALLY beat it. They would NEED to have plenty of sneaky rules in reserve to deny winnings from a variety of "slot systems".
     
  7. all4greed

    all4greed Now we can do business.

    Sounds like theft to me. Guess they don't understand the motto of pay, then ban unless it's for real bonus abuse. Changing betting patterns hardly qualifies as bonus abuse.

    Bunch of damn crooks.:mad:
     
  8. wobble33

    wobble33 Senior Member

    god...i played at a few of these rivals, but thats it. wont be touching any again!
     
  9. SoF

    SoF Dormant account

    Thank you for bringing this tour attention.

    Unfortunately the situation is not as presented. The particular individual has approached other portals with misleading information regarding this and we are not interested in opening a public discussion. We consider this issue closed.

    The purpose of this post is solely to present the facts behind our decision.

    First of all we would like to clarify that we believe players should have the freedom to follow any betting pattern they consider appropriate for their gaming needs, however when it involves bonus play they need to abide to certain terms and conditions. Bonuses are funds of the casino and are given in the interest of fair gaming, we as operators should have the liberty to enforce players to abide to the conditions which we believe are appropriate for the bonus funds offered.

    Winnings were confiscated due to a clear indication that the player was engaging in advantage play, with the sole intention to abuse our promotions system. Please be advised that we came to this decision after taking into consideration several other criteria, it appears that the particular individual had been constantly engaging in such type of play throughout the Rival platform and was part of a syndicate. We rarely apply this rule however it was clear that were as a consistent history of advantage bonus play.

    The particular individual was part of a bonus abuse syndicate originating from Germany that during the summer launched an orchestrated attack against our casino. It is common for operators after such attacks proceed to country banning, it is not our intention to punish our German players for the deeds of bonus abusers. We decided to deal with this syndicate on a case by case basis. It appears threats of negative publicity are the last weapon of extortion by the syndicate and the individuals involved.

    Due to the nature of our game portfolio which consists of medium to high variance slots, certain advantage players were targeting our casino to claim our high bonuses, engage in wagering at the maximum betting limits and once they hit a big feature (which is usually a substantial amount due to the variance of the slots and the maximum betting involved) they immediately switch to consistent minimum and/or low betting in order to clear the wagering requirements and “grind” the bonus through. They engage in high risk betting with the funds of the casino for a higher return. Once they achieve their target they follow low risk strategies to create an advantage and move from casino to casino.

    The complainant has clearly violated the below clause:

    “Placing maximum bets with the bonus funds until big wins occur, then switching their betting patterns by placing minimum and/or low bets in order to clear the wagering requirements.”

    During the beginning of the gaming session associated with the bonus involved from his first spin until the 14th one he placed wagers on the maximum betting limit and when he reached as substantial win of 1,420 EUR (on spin 14) he immediately and consistently started betting minimum and/or low bets in an effort to clear the wagering requirements with the minimal risk possible. At the end of the gaming session and once it was mathematically certain that in a few seconds he will clear the wagering requirements, another 20 maximum bet spins were placed for a probability to gain a higher advantage from this advantage bonus play.

    Unfortunately we are not able to disclose additional information due to security reasons.

    The particular player has a notorious reputation and his advantage play has been so extensive that has been flagged as a bonus abuser at several other non-Rival properties.

    Customers are free to bet in any way they like being high risk to low risk, however when they play with bonuses which are our funds we have the right to dictate the terms surrounding the promotions in order to avoid bonus abuse incidents.

    It is understandable that all players want to clear the wagering requirements and increase their odds of winning however they do not follow betting patterns that in conjunction with the bonus and variance involved create an unfair gaming environment.

    This is exclusively a bonus abuse issue and this is our policy for dealing with such type of incidents. We are not going to let bonus abuse affect the gaming experience of our customers. We are not going proceed to an increase in our wagering requirements, and are not going to stigmatize players according to their location. What we have done and will continue to do is identify such players and prevent future abuse.

    At the end of the day, our mission is to serve our players and offer them a fun and secure gaming experience, we are not in this industry to serve bonus abusers. We have a reputation of running a stable property and we are not an easy target as they expected to be, false claims and fabricated negative publicity is not going to change our stance towards bonus abuse and fraud.

    We want players to know that when you win at Slots of Fortune, you will always be paid!

    Only cases of individuals engaging in abusive and fraudulent practices have issues with their cashouts. Regular players have nothing to worry about, expect where and on what they are going to spend their winnings.

    Kind Regards,

    Player Relations
    Slots of Fortune
     
  10. takethemoney

    takethemoney Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic

    None of this matters. You can't change the rules on the fly on a per customer basis to get out of paying winnings! The proper, as well as honorable way to handle this, would have been to pay the player, then bonus ban him if necessary. You could also say he was not welcome at your establishment anymore. That is your perogative. What you cannot do and be considered a casino with any integrity is write the rules to suit you after the winnings have already occurred. The player took a bonus, which you put out there. Too damn bad if you got beat with your own promo. That's gambling and it works both ways! What this will cost you by players not depositing after reading this will be more than it would have cost to just pay this player. Very stupid business decision being made here, if you ask me. Typical arrogant dumbassery being purveyed here.
     
    18 people like this.
  11. SoF

    SoF Dormant account

    Just to clarify that these rules were in place when the customer took the bonus.

    No rules were drafted for this case nor they were enforced retroactively. The customer was in violation of the rules.

    When referring to a case by case basis, we mean that our security team investigates each single account.

    Thank you,

    Player Relations
    Slots of Fortune
     
  12. all4greed

    all4greed Now we can do business.

    Well, I guess from a legal standpoint this is pretty clear.

    Line A is questionable since a player is forced to rollover the deposit and bonus a set amount of times. That has nothing to do with a "reasonable degree of play" clause as the player has met the terms and conditions as stated without having to wonder whatever management feels that day should be additional wagered. Or am I misunderstanding this?o_O

    Promotion Abuse and Policy

    Definition

    ...
    A. receiving a promotion bonus then cashing in without demonstrating a reasonable degree of play

    B. attempting a large wager(s) with the bonus funds in an attempt to circumvent play through wager requirements of the bonus system

    Additional examples of irregular betting patterns may include and not limited to placing, single bets equal or in excess of 30% or more of the value of the current bonus credited to the players account, until such time that wagering requirements have been met. Placing maximum and/or high limit bets with the bonus funds until big wins occur, then switching their betting patterns by placing minimum and/or low bets in order to clear the wagering requirements associated with the bonus.

    In the event that the casino deems that irregular betting has taken place, the casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings.
     
  13. all4greed

    all4greed Now we can do business.

    One other thing. I understand max/min bets referenced in your terms, but high/low bets can be pretty vague.

    What is considered high and low?
     
  14. oldtrvlagt

    oldtrvlagt Dormant account

    I would like to know this as well. I was playing A LOT of Scary Rich and Scary Rich II....just for the heck of it I'll throw in $50 every once in a while and play a $1 a spin. Now we all know (these days anyway) it can take hundreds if not a thousand (or more) spins to get a decent return. If I get down to $30 I'll switch my bet size to $.40 just to try and get a longer playing time. Is this against the "rules"?
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. heador112

    heador112 Experienced Member PABnononaccred3

    :mad:SOF

    Then you say :


    It doesnt make sense !

    If i make large bets its abuse and if i make lower bets its also abuse o_O

    Your stupid statements sound like a copy from the management email , which will be published during the next days .


    First when you denied my withdrawal you never told me i would be part of a syndicate o_O

    You startet doing that after Steve Russo contactet you for his article and told you that it is a unfair rule to confiscate winnings for changing to a lower betsize . You know its ridicilous thats why you start lying to justify that you stole my money :eek2:


    I played with 1 € spins but i am sure if i had continued with 10 € bets a rogue casino like sof would also find a reason to steal peoples money .
    My email spam is full off your fucking bonuses


    You guys write promotional emails with content like "claim bonuses until hit big" but what happens when a player hits big ??????

    You accuse him of beeing a bonus abuser ans steals his money and keep all lost deposits !!!

    Thats the way you handle your business .

    These guys are already rogued at Gambling grumbles because of the "agreement " they have sent me .





    These action shows that the management know that his casino scammed me . If you have nothing to loose you have the freedom to scamm your customers and ripp them off . If they complain you just accuse them of things they have never done !
    I think the currect financial problems of white label Rival casinos explains
    very well why so many people are ripped off by rogue places like Slots of Fortune .

    People :

    Never deposit even a single penny at Slotsoffortune !!!!

    There are many good Casinos out there : 32RED , Clubworld , Inetbet , 3Dice and alot of otheres and if you like Rival VegasRegal or Slotocash .

    Its not necessary to pay money to criminals like slotsoffortune .


    They are liars and criminals who take your deposits if you lose and confsicate your money if your are lucky enough to win .
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  16. heador112

    heador112 Experienced Member PABnononaccred3

    Original post changed
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  17. Mavin1

    Mavin1 Dormant account

    I would feel slandered if a casino put out this kind of information towards me, unwarranted. Is this a Conspiracy Theory, or is it a fact? It should not be thrown out here just because you want to make the poster look like a criminal.
    An accusation such as this needs to be handled discreetly if it is the case, before slinging it out here on the forum.


    Seriously, for the way a player plays, who doesn't play like this? So is each and every player an advantage player/bonus abuser?
    If I deposit without a bonus, it is usually around $35, I will play as minimal as possible trying to get some play time and hopefully a bit of a withdrawal for my money.
    Now if I take a bonus on that deposit, I will go for broke hoping for a good hit. If this did happen, then yes I too would bump down so as not to lose what I have won. Then I would consider taking the risk of going for broke once more when wagering was complete. Now here is where the casino or player will win or lose and it doesn't always go in the players favor. Now how many bonus players have played this way only to lose it all back to the casino, my guess would be at least 85%, maybe more or less.

    Now does this make me an advantage player, or just smart? Or are players expected to play like they are stupid just to make sure they are allowed to cashout?

    Get it through your marketing heads, bonuses encourage high hopes for all players. So don't beat us up for using them wisely.

    When spending our money on anything, we try to do it smartly, not haphazardly and throw it away. Gambling is no different, players are savy and smart for the most part and want to come away with money instead of losing all the time, because we fear we will offend a casinos terms and conditions.
    If I am offered a bonus and manage to play it in my favor, then who's fault is it really? If you can't stand having people actually win by playing smartly, then why offer the bonuses in the first place?

    I am a person unto myself, but if I played that way, because I thought it was the smarter thing to do, would I be an advantage player? A crime syndicate? No, I would be a player that has spent plenty of money into online gambling that has found that playing it safe does not work anymore and does not benefit me, but benefits the casino 9.999% of the time. Taking that up and down risk in wagering no matter when I decide to do it, be it at the end of completion of the wr or before or whenever, would be because I am trying to make it work for me. Also knowing that with the players risk of trying to up the win amount you equally can lose it all, so the chances are equally then in favor of the player and the casino.

    You all expect the players to constantly risk their money to you, but scream like babies when a few win once in awhile.

    As for these terms and conditions, they are broad and wide and can fit the occasion for any and all players at any given time when convenient. These ever lengthening T&C's should be streamlined or abolished!
     
    8 people like this.
  18. asianeyes

    asianeyes Dormant account

    Takethemoney, how so well said and you nailed it on the head as i will never deposit at slotsofmisfortune!!!:lolup::thumbsup:
     
  19. NASHVEGAS

    NASHVEGAS Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin, unfor

    There is and has been an on-going criminal and /or fraudulent syndicate participating in this thread. I have reason to believe Bryan even speaks with one of their (can not be revealed)-----> four owners every now and then!! Reminds me of the Eurolinx (sp) owner, fwiw!!

    Nothing new hear to read*, Rival-BC "designed fradulent schemes" have been and continue to be their standard operating procedure(s).

    *The OP deserves to be paid as per SOF's posts plain and simple. Yes, the OP is part of a syndicate known as The Player's, Affiliate's, and Other's that have been and continue to be victims of the above mentioned Rival-BC syndicate.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
    2 people like this.
  20. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    To quote the late, great Spearmaster......BULLSHIT!!

    Honestly, I can't even be bothered commenting on these threads anymore. Player abuses the bonus by playing high risk/high variance slots. Ummmm.....okay. And if he had busted out making these "large" size bets? Betcha he would have had a new promo waiting in his cashier for him within a few days, and his next deposit would have gladly been accepted.

    Bet too low, you are grinding out WR. Bet too high, and you are maximizing the bonus too much. WTF? Seriously people...get a clue and stop giving these crooks your money.

    Rival white labels aka Rival, are on a par with Virtual. Whereas before most of the complaints centred around extended and ongoing payment delays, bonus banning, shitty support, etc....it seems they are now pulling out the old "bonus abusers" sob story as well. This thread, the 21Grand one, the 80K win at This Is Vegas, the BetUS (think that's the name?) cases. It's only gonna get worse.

    If the player did not contravene the 30% max bet rule, then he should be paid.....end of story. What you do with him after that is your business. But I guarantee you would have happily kept accepting his deposits, as long as he continued to lose. You couldn't have given a rat's ass HOW he played his funds, or in what manner.
     
    14 people like this.

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