Slots Fairness Discussion (Cut from Other Thread)

[snorky510238]

Geezus. Please take a moment and listen to what i am saying. The game offers the traditional game + slam stop. Sometimes i get a feeling to simply slam stop and bam, i got a hit. It's just my guts telling me to slam stop it and it drops where it should be.

What you are saying is that people could control the outcome with slam stop at any given moment. This is not true. My example is simply i stopped it at the right moment. If i did not slam stop, i WOULD HAVE A DIFFENT OUTCOME. I dont believe either you can 'win' the game by constant slam stopping. You see, i believe that there is online functionality which includes slam stop and many times, it happens to give the three symbols for a bonus.

As i said before, one of my friend is bin exploiting that type of gameplay as well, but we both know it's more of a entertainment feature then it actually does something. We had a play a few hours a week or so ago and we constantly hitted bonusses by slam stop. It was'nt just doing great in those bonusses and kept us artificially, to a fee.

I am not your customer. I dont play online anymore. I never signed up again or i never reactivated my account. I have more discipline then you could imagine. But from my standpoint, online play is capped, controlled whatever you name it.

I remember being on 11500 euro's on my account. So i thought i'd exploit a litlte here and there in some slots. I simply could not hit anything at all. It's just capping me and there was a noticable lag on every spin i did. The slots wanted their money back. Tell me this Trancemonkey, is a online casino or a game provider able to 'cap' a player who's exceeded a big amount of money on his account? Can he / she exploit even further and double that 11k?

Proberly not. Here's where the constant losing streak comes into play. You dont tell me it's coincidence having a losing streak from 11 back to 7k. That's 4k on wasted spins. And the bets where in between 5 up to 15 a spin combined on various games.

Slots online are NOT genuine.

I wouldn't read to much into the slam stop thing but I have to admit I was playing butterfly staxx a while back and hadn't had the feature for ages when I slam stopped it by accident and it dropped in same thing happened since but I never mean to play it that way.Done it accidentally on others but never hit anything.As for the slots aren't genuine I agree but I actually think In a good way. By this I mean I have gambled on slots in every establishment possible and my returns online are far better than anywhere else.I mean like you said you had 11500 in your account it's not that easy to win that amount anywhere unless your lucky enough to hit a progressive jackpot

 

[Bloatgoat]

I've had a 100 free spins on zeus on 21 euro bet. That was pretty amazing. The outcome a dirty 9 grand. But it should be way more better considering 100 free spins on such a huge bet. But again, there's RTP involved, and that RTP is working. It's simply not exceeding otherwise it would cost the slot money on the floor and not make any profit.

I wouldn't read to much into the slam stop thing but I have to admit I was playing butterfly staxx a while back and hadn't had the feature for ages when I slam stopped it by accident and it dropped in same thing happened since but I never mean to play it that way.Done it accidentally on others but never hit anything.As for the slots aren't genuine I agree but I actually think In a good way. By this I mean I have gambled on slots in every establishment possible and my returns online are far better than anywhere else.I mean like you said you had 11500 in your account it's not that easy to win that amount anywhere unless your lucky enough to hit a progressive jackpot

Well this was'nt made on a progressive, it was a huge win on 20 euro bet. It jumped up to 6k and from there on hit again 'big'. So after your having 11500 on your balance, why not give it a try at a different slot?

So here's where the downfall back to 6 to 7 k comes. Nothing works. This is so obvious that the casino wants their money back. Cant think of any other reason. You cant have bad luck on ALL slots you try with such a amount of money.

This is what i personally dislike about online play. It's just a number on screen. In a landbased casino they'd pay you out by CASH. No 48 hours pending, and with bad luck the weekend in between.

 

[trancemonkey]

I've had a 100 free spins on zeus on 21 euro bet. That was pretty amazing. The outcome a dirty 9 grand. But it should be way more better considering 100 free spins on such a huge bet. But again, there's RTP involved, and that RTP is working. It's simply not exceeding otherwise it would cost the slot money on the floor and not make any profit.



Well this was'nt made on a progressive, it was a huge win on 20 euro bet. It jumped up to 6k and from there on hit again 'big'. So after your having 11500 on your balance, why not give it a try at a different slot?

So here's where the downfall back to 6 to 7 k comes. Nothing works. This is so obvious that the casino wants their money back. Cant think of any other reason. You cant have bad luck on ALL slots you try with such a amount of money.

This is what i personally dislike about online play. It's just a number on screen. In a landbased casino they'd pay you out by CASH. No 48 hours pending, and with bad luck the weekend in between.

So just once and for all let me ask you a straight question....

Do you think that the software providers are all in cahoots with each other, even though we are all in competition, to rig games against you - and that all the online casinos and regulators and software producers are all in it together?

And yet not one single person has ever broken their silence and come out and said it happens... not even a single disgruntled employee.

Yes or no is that what you believe happens?

 

[Tourettesguy]

Trump is not racist

Love Trump, dont talk shit about him

 

[Bloatgoat]

So just once and for all let me ask you a straight question....

Do you think that the software providers are all in cahoots with each other, even though we are all in competition, to rig games against you - and that all the online casinos and regulators and software producers are all in it together?

No. But it's a competetive market, that constantly screams for adaptation. They have a very naught trickbook which they can apply against players. Majority is not saying it's rigged, but it's sure not clean either. I know slots are being tested and regulated and all, but that does'nt hold you or any other dev back to add some features that appear to be random but they are not. They are designed to keep players, playing. I've really seen some wicked stuff going on and you cant keep saying, oh it's the RNG or oh it's a progression of the game and stuff.

Matter of fact the reason why many online games cant be seen in landbased is that they proberly dont have the quality standards a normal casino would require. The costs to 'buy' or 'licence' such games is proberly way lower online compared to land based. And some of them really do a terrible job 'porting' games from real machines to crappy flash versions.

And yet not one single person has ever broken their silence and come out and said it happens... not even a single disgruntled employee.

Yes or no is that what you believe happens?

They dont need to. A casino is a profiting business. Any slot on the floor wether off or online generates money. Since there's a RTP involved, and since digital ages took over, it's almost impossible to make a slot exceed way more then it's programmed to. For instance, many casino's in Holland now have that server sided gaming fully setup. Centralised 'wins' and no more machines that could be exploited. It's a gift for some players, but a pain in the ass for me, as it would require me to change my strategy.

I find it very weird sometimes, that i cant, with my playerscard, simply exceed a certain amount of money, no matter what i do or what slot i play on what bet. In the end, i'd always be like 1500 and nothing more. It's strange right. It's like a central machine already decided for me, this is your 'win' for today, come back later, or something. Something simular is happening online if you ask me as well.

Some players have to toss in hundreds everyday, gain shit, and some day toss in 50 and be at like 5 grand in 10 minutes. This cant be all random.

 

[snorky510238]

I've had a 100 free spins on zeus on 21 euro bet. That was pretty amazing. The outcome a dirty 9 grand. But it should be way more better considering 100 free spins on such a huge bet. But again, there's RTP involved, and that RTP is working. It's simply not exceeding otherwise it would cost the slot money on the floor and not make any profit.



Well this was'nt made on a progressive, it was a huge win on 20 euro bet. It jumped up to 6k and from there on hit again 'big'. So after your having 11500 on your balance, why not give it a try at a different slot?

So here's where the downfall back to 6 to 7 k comes. Nothing works. This is so obvious that the casino wants their money back. Cant think of any other reason. You cant have bad luck on ALL slots you try with such a amount of money.

This is what i personally dislike about online play. It's just a number on screen. In a landbased casino they'd pay you out by CASH. No 48 hours pending, and with bad luck the weekend in between.

Yes I know what your saying 100 spins on that bet yeah but it's still a big win

 

[Bloatgoat]

Yes I know what your saying 100 spins on that bet yeah but it's still a big win

I've had a 8500 euro on 20 euro bet, landbased, within 10 free spins. I mean 100 should exceed that shit easily on 21 euro bet.

 

[goatwack]

I once had a bonus feature at £2.40 on Georgie Porgie and almost sh%t myself

 

[Tourettesguy]

Trancemonky, you need to play some games for some years and youll see everything I talk about...the patterns and behaviors of slots...at short timeperiods they are random and/or giving...90% of the time fishy things goin on. I bet the programmers and developers dont know shit about slots...they only do them and test them for short time periods... They are probably not allowed to play them either. Seen this before...ordinary products made by engineers that dont know anything about the product . Tools that need three hands to work and food packages that totally dont work or is hard to open and so on...

I wonder how the gamling controlloers test the games...A human need to sit donw for a long time spinning for real money.....not a computer simulating millions of spins in "testing mode"... And we all know what "testing mode" means...fair and random payouts.

Wished I was a software programmer..I would have made a 100% fair and random software...and no pre-determined spins. And you can implement real random values in to the equation in the computerized random number generator.

 

[trancemonkey]

Trancemonky, you need to play some games for some years and youll see everything I talk about...the patterns and behaviors of slots...at short timeperiods they are random and/or giving...90% of the time fishy things goin on. I bet the programmers and developers dont know shit about slots...they only do them and test them for short time periods... They are probably not allowed to play them either. Seen this before...ordinary products made by engineers that dont know anything about the product . Tools that need three hands to work and food packages that totally dont work or is hard to open and so on...

I wonder how the gamling controlloers test the games...A human need to sit donw for a long time spinning for real money.....not a computer simulating millions of spins in "testing mode"... And we all know what "testing mode" means...fair and random payouts.

Wished I was a software programmer..I would have made a 100% fair and random software...and no pre-determined spins. And you can implement real random values in to the equation in the computerized random number generator.

I’ve been a player for 20 years. I’ve been a programmer and producer in that time. I don’t need to do anything to see what you see because I know it from the other side. And i know my games are fair and random.

I can’t tell you what you’ve seen is wrong because you can only form opinions based on what you’ve seen and the knowledge you have - which is limited in real terms.

Are you coming to the Meister Meet? I would love to talk to you in a more normal environment -. Whether you change you mind is up to you.

 

[trancemonkey]

No. But it's a competetive market, that constantly screams for adaptation. They have a very naught trickbook which they can apply against players. Majority is not saying it's rigged, but it's sure not clean either. I know slots are being tested and regulated and all, but that does'nt hold you or any other dev back to add some features that appear to be random but they are not. They are designed to keep players, playing. I've really seen some wicked stuff going on and you cant keep saying, oh it's the RNG or oh it's a progression of the game and stuff.

Matter of fact the reason why many online games cant be seen in landbased is that they proberly dont have the quality standards a normal casino would require. The costs to 'buy' or 'licence' such games is proberly way lower online compared to land based. And some of them really do a terrible job 'porting' games from real machines to crappy flash versions.



They dont need to. A casino is a profiting business. Any slot on the floor wether off or online generates money. Since there's a RTP involved, and since digital ages took over, it's almost impossible to make a slot exceed way more then it's programmed to. For instance, many casino's in Holland now have that server sided gaming fully setup. Centralised 'wins' and no more machines that could be exploited. It's a gift for some players, but a pain in the ass for me, as it would require me to change my strategy.

I find it very weird sometimes, that i cant, with my playerscard, simply exceed a certain amount of money, no matter what i do or what slot i play on what bet. In the end, i'd always be like 1500 and nothing more. It's strange right. It's like a central machine already decided for me, this is your 'win' for today, come back later, or something. Something simular is happening online if you ask me as well.

Some players have to toss in hundreds everyday, gain shit, and some day toss in 50 and be at like 5 grand in 10 minutes. This cant be all random.

There is nothing more I can say to you. You have your unwavering belief. This whole thing is now purely cyclic. If you’re ever willing to change you mind and stop with these frankly ridiculous theories then I will happily engage with you some more, but currently I am better off letting you continue your line of thinking.

Now.. I’m getting on a plane and need to design some more rigged non-random games to rip you all off with.

Caio

 

[trancemonkey]

Trancemonky, you need to play some games for some years and youll see everything I talk about...the patterns and behaviors of slots...at short timeperiods they are random and/or giving...90% of the time fishy things goin on. I bet the programmers and developers dont know shit about slots...they only do them and test them for short time periods... They are probably not allowed to play them either. Seen this before...ordinary products made by engineers that dont know anything about the product . Tools that need three hands to work and food packages that totally dont work or is hard to open and so on...

I wonder how the gamling controlloers test the games...A human need to sit donw for a long time spinning for real money.....not a computer simulating millions of spins in "testing mode"... And we all know what "testing mode" means...fair and random payouts.

Wished I was a software programmer..I would have made a 100% fair and random software...and no pre-determined spins. And you can implement real random values in to the equation in the computerized random number generator.

Btw - if you were a programmer and got a job at my company and it became obvious all the things you think you know are wrong... would you then admit it to yourself?! Or would you still think We were hiding things from you? And would you then come on here and say “Actually Guys, TM was right?”

 

[snorky510238]

I once had a bonus feature at £2.40 on Georgie Porgie and almost sh%t myself

I was trying to complete a big deposit bonus once and was doing ok but had hit every game I play and I always think it pays to keep game hopping when completing wagering so I came across viva l'Italia or whatever it's called you can tell I am scraping the barrel.The minute I see the screen I am thinking this just looks a bag of.I will play it on 25p and see what happens the first spin drops 2 scatters surprise I thought but it pays me £7.50.Great I thought I will soon complete wagering given you get 2 scatters all the time.I had already pressed spin when the light came on hang on CHECK STAKE it's in a tiny box at the bottom glasses on worst thoughts confirmed I am only spinning max bet £6.25 unbelievably it drops 4 scatters in which paid £125 to start and 15 free spins at max bet 5 panic attacks later start the bonus crazy figures whizzing through my mind.All it managed was a miserly £90 gutted but had to admit it was the best mistake I ever made

 

[Bloatgoat]

Btw - if you were a programmer and got a job at my company and it became obvious all the things you think you know are wrong... would you then admit it to yourself?! Or would you still think We were hiding things from you? And would you then come on here and say “Actually Guys, TM was right?”

Your trying to win souls here

We dont know how it is BEHIND the screens. We dont have jobs in this business as you are the only one. I am a technical, computer related guy, i play slots because it's the best thing for me knowing when it hits or not. You have a knobb for this stuff or not. Casino's dont exist as free money places. They are designed to make money. Not the other way around. So is your job. Basicly creating games that people will stick on and keep playing.

Someone tonight showed me into trading coins. I already made a profit of 100$ lol. I am going to say goodbye into gambling on slots because trading seems much more fun to me.

 

[interlog]

Your trying to win souls here

We dont know how it is BEHIND the screens. We dont have jobs in this business as you are the only one. I am a technical, computer related guy, i play slots because it's the best thing for me knowing when it hits or not. You have a knobb for this stuff or not. Casino's dont exist as free money places. They are designed to make money. Not the other way around. So is your job. Basicly creating games that people will stick on and keep playing.

Someone tonight showed me into trading coins. I already made a profit of 100$ lol. I am going to say goodbye into gambling on slots because trading seems much more fun to me.

The thing though is, that you don't know when it is going to hit or not. Whether it be land based or online, the slots don't give a clue when it is due to drop a big hit.

I noticed from your last video that your friend commented "at last some luck". If you know when a land based slot is going to hit, why would your friend make that comment - you would be winning all of the time.

And whilst the quality of the sound on the last video isn't all that great due to the background noise and slot sounds, wasn't there a conversation had that you invested 4,000 euro in that win and that it surprised you that the bonus came in? All the signs that the land based slots are as random as online ones.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Play long enough, and you could tell. Trust me.

I went in with 4 grand into that machine and finally hit at 6k. Withdrawled and made a 2k profit. Getting 25 free spins on 30 euro bet is pretty rare. Actually, very hard. But i did it.

Just remember that i play big with money of the casino. Not my own money.

The thing is on such machines, the rule of bankroll is valuable here. You need to have a large bankroll to sustain playing on 10 to 30 a spin. Changes are that you will lose when inserting 200 and playing at 10 a spin is greater then 400 / 10 a spin. At some point, it should hit. If not, move on to a next machine.

With online this is different. There's no second slot with the same game. It's just one. So if that does'nt work, you need to switch over to a diff. game completely. It's no golden rule as well, i could have lost that 4k as well. But i have confident in what i do, and 8 out of 10 times i walk away with profit. Putting 4 grand into a machine is not what you call disipline either, but i like a challenge.

And esp that casino alot of know people come over there, who do complete day with just 100. And then comes this guy slamming in 4 grand into a machine. They want to see you win as well.

 

[interlog]

Play long enough, and you could tell. Trust me.

I went in with 4 grand into that machine and finally hit at 6k. Withdrawled and made a 2k profit. Getting 25 free spins on 30 euro bet is pretty rare. Actually, very hard. But i did it.

Just remember that i play big with money of the casino. Not my own money.

You must have done some 150+ spins to trigger the bonus. No disrespect but that is about the average bonus frequency for the likes of Kronos and its sister Amazon Queen. The bonus will eventually drop in and every spin you make gets you closer to it.

You were lucky that the bonus paid well. It could have easily been a duff one which this game is more than capable to deliver.

 

[interlog]

Play long enough, and you could tell. Trust me.

I went in with 4 grand into that machine and finally hit at 6k. Withdrawled and made a 2k profit. Getting 25 free spins on 30 euro bet is pretty rare. Actually, very hard. But i did it.

Just remember that i play big with money of the casino. Not my own money.

The thing is on such machines, the rule of bankroll is valuable here. You need to have a large bankroll to sustain playing on 10 to 30 a spin. Changes are that you will lose when inserting 200 and playing at 10 a spin is greater then 400 / 10 a spin. At some point, it should hit. If not, move on to a next machine.

With online this is different. There's no second slot with the same game. It's just one. So if that does'nt work, you need to switch over to a diff. game completely. It's no golden rule as well, i could have lost that 4k as well. But i have confident in what i do, and 8 out of 10 times i walk away with profit. Putting 4 grand into a machine is not what you call disipline either, but i like a challenge.

And esp that casino alot of know people come over there, who do complete day with just 100. And then comes this guy slamming in 4 grand into a machine. They want to see you win as well.

Noticed that you added to your post whilst I made my previous reply.

Of course the bonus is going to hit at some point, whether that be online or land based. As you said, it all depends how much you are prepared to invest in it.

By you moving onto another similar machine you may catch that machine in a "bad mood" too. You could argue that I could refresh my browser and start a new session which would be the equivalent of you changing machines.

 

[Bloatgoat]

It's not like i play constant on 30 a spin. It was a lucky trigger. It kept me on avg on 1500 forth and back, and i had this one bonus that booted me up to 2500 from where i started to play big.

For some reason, this only 'works' if your bankroll is already at such a stake. No way it's working when your down 800 or so. It's just a lucky trigger and it paid out well.

Yes i know how volatile this game can be. But it can turn the other way around.



Started with 250, 50 a spin. Last spin boom, bonus. My very first. A full screen could have done 750 x 50 = 37500. I've lost my faith in ever winning such amount of winnings anyway. It's best at 2 to 4 grand, a once in a lifetime 8 grand. Dont mind the slamming, some guys where servicing the machine(s) right next to me.

@interlog I dont believe into logging out / logging back in. It's still your player ID. It's not like oh our player is logging out / getting bored, quickly give him a bonus or a few wins to keep him playing! Slots supposed to have no memory, so it does'nt matter if you logout log back in again. Switching IP's does'nt do jack shit.

 

[interlog]

It's not like i play constant on 30 a spin. It was a lucky trigger. It kept me on avg on 1500 forth and back, and i had this one bonus that booted me up to 2500 from where i started to play big.

For some reason, this only 'works' if your bankroll is already at such a stake. No way it's working when your down 800 or so. It's just a lucky trigger and it paid out well.

Yes i know how volatile this game can be. But it can turn the other way around.



Started with 250, 50 a spin. Last spin boom, bonus. My very first. A full screen could have done 750 x 50 = 37500. I've lost my faith in ever winning such amount of winnings anyway. It's best at 2 to 4 grand, a once in a lifetime 8 grand. Dont mind the slamming, some guys where servicing the machine(s) right next to me.

@interlog I dont believe into logging out / logging back in. It's still your player ID. It's not like oh our player is logging out / getting bored, quickly give him a bonus or a few wins to keep him playing! Slots supposed to have no memory, so it does'nt matter if you logout log back in again. Switching IP's does'nt do jack shit.

Of course refreshing the browser, logging out and then in or even changing IP address doesn't work. But neither does you switching machines work either. These land based machines are no different to online ones. They continuously spit out random numbers. You press the spin button and the result is determined depending on what random number you landed.

Online casinos / slot providers do not need to do dodgy stuff as the money rolls in automatically the way the slots are designed. No different to land based casinos not doing dodgy stuff either. They are literally money making machines.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Really? Look i know 90% of who's going into the casino is already going to lose. It's just determined. I am hopefully within those 10% that makes a sport out of winning and try my best to leave the place with profit. It takes disipline, no alcohol and dont stay longer then really needed.

If id' compare online vs landbased, i put my money on landbased. These machines can be very volatile, so i've learned to stick with 200 > 10 a spin, if it does not work, move onto the next one. Out of 5 machines at least ONE is going to hit. This i know from experience. It makes no sense to keep putting in money (of your own ofcourse) in a slot while your betting on 'hoping to win big'. When it's not within a certain amount of spins or better said, within a amount of money, GFTO!

Again; the trick is to play with money of the casino, BIG. If you lose it, it's no big deal! It's money of the casino. And if you win, it's granted fully yours. Stop while your ahead from here on. It's good to leave the place with 1500 up to 9000. It's not good if you leave the place with money you've lost.

There is no different machine within the same game online, so your only option is to pick a few of your favourite machines, and try your luck there. If it does'nt work, call it a day. It makes no sense to chace fucking losses online because that is the most STUPIDEST thing you can do. I am very aware that this thread exists out of people who tried to chase their loss and figured out the online play is VERY DIFFERENT compared to what they came from.

What bothers me as well is that, the moment people WON BIG with a low bet on online, it got them so confident, being on cloud 9, nobody can touch them, is where they all either lost it or kept on playing making more losses then they could afford. I've seen a 'friend' of my do the same thing. I am sorry but he sounds very stupid after he made a 100 free spins on like 2 euro bet and left with a 1 grand and finally withdrawled at 400. I've done my share as well online, reached 11500 and from there on it was a downward spiral. Nothing you can do to double that money in the first place. Can mister Tracemonkey tell me why i had a downward spiral from 11500 to 6k without not any SLOT at all hitting? I'm sure that's it's technically possible to limit a player account. My best day in local casino was 17000 cash. I had to ask for security to follow me up to my car because, well you never know. Esp in Amsterdam.

 

[interlog]

Really? Look i know 90% of who's going into the casino is already going to lose. It's just determined. I am hopefully within those 10% that makes a sport out of winning and try my best to leave the place with profit. It takes disipline, no alcohol and dont stay longer then really needed.

If id' compare online vs landbased, i put my money on landbased. These machines can be very volatile, so i've learned to stick with 200 > 10 a spin, if it does not work, move onto the next one. Out of 5 machines at least ONE is going to hit. This i know from experience. It makes no sense to keep putting in money (of your own ofcourse) in a slot while your betting on 'hoping to win big'. When it's not within a certain amount of spins or better said, within a amount of money, GFTO!

Again; the trick is to play with money of the casino, BIG. If you lose it, it's no big deal! It's money of the casino. And if you win, it's granted fully yours. Stop while your ahead from here on. It's good to leave the place with 1500 up to 9000. It's not good if you leave the place with money you've lost.

There is no different machine within the same game online, so your only option is to pick a few of your favourite machines, and try your luck there. If it does'nt work, call it a day. It makes no sense to chace fucking losses online because that is the most STUPIDEST thing you can do. I am very aware that this thread exists out of people who tried to chase their loss and figured out the online play is VERY DIFFERENT compared to what they came from.

What bothers me as well is that, the moment people WON BIG with a low bet on online, it got them so confident, being on cloud 9, nobody can touch them, is where they all either lost it or kept on playing making more losses then they could afford. I've seen a 'friend' of my do the same thing. I am sorry but he sounds very stupid after he made a 100 free spins on like 2 euro bet and left with a 1 grand and finally withdrawled at 400. I've done my share as well online, reached 11500 and from there on it was a downward spiral. Nothing you can do to double that money in the first place. Can mister Tracemonkey tell me why i had a downward spiral from 11500 to 6k without not any SLOT at all hitting? I'm sure that's it's technically possible to limit a player account. My best day in local casino was 17000 cash. I had to ask for security to follow me up to my car because, well you never know. Esp in Amsterdam.

You beat the odds by being ahead, whether that be online or land based. That is really simple maths.

I once went on a very lucky online streak where I deposited £100 and took out £10k over a two day period at one casino. Every game (Novomatic) I touched gave me a bonus within 50 spins which is almost impossible on that kind of slot. The balance at some point sat at £12k but it dropped very quickly to £10k so I knew it was time to quit.

The only strategy you can have on slots / casino games is to know when to cash out and walk away.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Eh, be at the right time at that slot. That's all the luck you can have.

 

[trancemonkey]

You beat the odds by being ahead, whether that be online or land based. That is really simple maths.

I once went on a very lucky online streak where I deposited £100 and took out £10k over a two day period at one casino. Every game (Novomatic) I touched gave me a bonus within 50 spins which is almost impossible on that kind of slot. The balance at some point sat at £12k but it dropped very quickly to £10k so I knew it was time to quit.

The only strategy you can have on slots / casino games is to know when to cash out and walk away.

You should have tried skill stopping the reels

 

[interlog]

Eh, be at the right time at that slot. That's all the luck you can have.

Yep... luck and not skill.

 

[interlog]

You should have tried skill stopping the reels

If only I was at a land based one!

 

[goatwack]

You have to imagine a second, with all paranoia and tinfoil set aside, that if slots were 'our' version of random and played beautifully, there would still have to be deviations in gameplay for some players. As much as I'd like to win on every spin, simple law of averages tells me that several punters are having a terrible time.

Still doesn't make the bad, repetitive losing streaks any more bearable, but random is what random does, I guess

 

[Tourettesguy]

Btw - if you were a programmer and got a job at my company and it became obvious all the things you think you know are wrong... would you then admit it to yourself?! Or would you still think We were hiding things from you? And would you then come on here and say “Actually Guys, TM was right?”

First...Im not coming on some kind o meet with gambling addicts...lol

But sure I would say you were right if you were...maybe you think you are but missing what the real outcome of the gameplay gets...for ex that Dunover video of the 3x3 block crashing down on same spot 2 spins in a row and milluions of spins before and after and you probably wont see that block anywhere.
And then I would force you to make spins that is not pre-determined...and I would put in real random values in the RNG...for ex you could let the tempature outside the window be one value to just make the RNG random...or the air preassure..one number in the current date...not like some days you win or at some temperature outside you win...but to scramble the numbers some more. I think you know what I mean.
As you know Ive been playing Yggrasil game for a long time...won alot and lsot some..dont question hte fairness but the way the reels act...its liek of 1 millions theoretical combos hos the symbols show on the reels only 1/10 of that is availible so see...and I would not make slots like Vikings Go Berzerk and when you finally hit Ragnarök spins all of a sudden the viking symbols gets very very VERY rare during free spins...last time I won 250 coins on a 7 free spins Ragnarök feature...you will never ever get that low win during "normal" 7 free spins...lowst ive got is like 350-400....normal around 1000 and 2000-3000 coins now and then...for 7 spins. That is pure riggage..that wound be legal if I was in charge...NO change in symbols or wild appearce depending of what kidn of feature you hit... Other software liek Microgamign and probably all softwares suffor from this...if you get a huge free game multiplier you will ofcoarse get lower win on the reels during that feature.
Btw what softwares are you fimiliar with and/or been working on?

And these last spins so called "balance saver"-spins....those are not random when they often occor to be so extremely huge... Something in the programming make this to happen too often, Im sure you know something about this "litte program" handling this phenoenom tiem to time. If soemthing triggers these "balance saver" time to time...what else in the software have its own litte steering mechanism depending of player balance,deposits and other kinds of history...like session time and more...and more?

 

[dionysus]

I'd really have hoped 2018 wed see less tinfoil hatters.
But then I probably say this every new year.

 

[trancemonkey]

First...Im not coming on some kind o meet with gambling addicts...lol

But sure I would say you were right if you were...maybe you think you are but missing what the real outcome of the gameplay gets...for ex that Dunover video of the 3x3 block crashing down on same spot 2 spins in a row and milluions of spins before and after and you probably wont see that block anywhere.
And then I would force you to make spins that is not pre-determined...and I would put in real random values in the RNG...for ex you could let the tempature outside the window be one value to just make the RNG random...or the air preassure..one number in the current date...not like some days you win or at some temperature outside you win...but to scramble the numbers some more. I think you know what I mean.
As you know Ive been playing Yggrasil game for a long time...won alot and lsot some..dont question hte fairness but the way the reels act...its liek of 1 millions theoretical combos hos the symbols show on the reels only 1/10 of that is availible so see...and I would not make slots like Vikings Go Berzerk and when you finally hit Ragnarök spins all of a sudden the viking symbols gets very very VERY rare during free spins...last time I won 250 coins on a 7 free spins Ragnarök feature...you will never ever get that low win during "normal" 7 free spins...lowst ive got is like 350-400....normal around 1000 and 2000-3000 coins now and then...for 7 spins. That is pure riggage..that wound be legal if I was in charge...NO change in symbols or wild appearce depending of what kidn of feature you hit... Other software liek Microgamign and probably all softwares suffor from this...if you get a huge free game multiplier you will ofcoarse get lower win on the reels during that feature.
Btw what softwares are you fimiliar with and/or been working on?

And these last spins so called "balance saver"-spins....those are not random when they often occor to be so extremely huge... Something in the programming make this to happen too often, Im sure you know something about this "litte program" handling this phenoenom tiem to time. If soemthing triggers these "balance saver" time to time...what else in the software have its own litte steering mechanism depending of player balance,deposits and other kinds of history...like session time and more...and more?

They are random and there are no balance savers...

 

[greylady]

You can't win trancemonkey as your responses are based on your experiences and expertise as a slot developer - not on fact, which is a reality that cannot logically be disputed or rejected, without concrete evidence your responses will always be questioned - this is not a criticism of you but what we as humans are conditioned to do

 

[Tourettesguy]

They are random and there are no balance savers...

Why no vikings come during Ragnarök spins then...also random?

 

[brianmon]

Why no vikings come during Ragnarök spins then...also random?

Most games use different reels for features, and the base game

 

[trancemonkey]

You can't win trancemonkey as your responses are based on your experiences and expertise as a slot developer - not on fact, which is a reality that cannot logically be disputed or rejected, without concrete evidence your responses will always be questioned - this is not a criticism of you but what we as humans are conditioned to do

So you're telling me I don't know any facts about the way slot games work or the games I've made or the companies I've worked for or with?

Are you seriously suggesting that my testimony is worthless because i won't show you the code you know I can't show you - and even if I did people would claim is fixed the code?

I hope you're never a juror... you would ignore every witness statement according to your logic here.

But fair enough... then I guess it's time for me to leave this forum as it is clear that expertise means nothing and more weight is given to the people who spout the most shit.

Enjoy it everyone... Ciao

 

[slotmaster]

Teeheee, Everyone is having a great day EH. Mine has gotten no better so don't feel alone.

 

[Tourettesguy]

Most games use different reels for features, and the base game

You mean different reels when you get 7 Ragnarök spins compared to 7 spins of the other 4 types (I think)? Whne there is a starting wild/ 1 or 2 extra spins or wild reel or extra chests you see many viking on first spins instantly....on ragnarök you get 5 spins free of vikings and the maybe one or 2 at last spins...lol... noot random!

Cheating is another word for it...and rigged is also a word for it...lol...and so much for "why would we(programmers) rigg the softweare? What do we benfit from doin that?" still you use different reels....why?? haha

 

[greylady]

So you're telling me I don't know any facts about the way slot games work or the games I've made or the companies I've worked for or with?

Are you seriously suggesting that my testimony is worthless because i won't show you the code you know I can't show you - and even if I did people would claim is fixed the code?

I hope you're never a juror... you would ignore every witness statement according to your logic here.

But fair enough... then I guess it's time for me to leave this forum as it is clear that expertise means nothing and more weight is given to the people who spout the most shit.

Enjoy it everyone... Ciao

Apologies, I obviously didn't explain myself very well and in no way was I calling you a liar, nor questioning your expertise. I was trying to get across that logically, us as humans have a tendency to question everything that is not evident or evidence based to us, yes you can share your expertise but it's open to persuasion as most of us don't have the knowledge or expertise you have and neither have we seen it for ourselves - I base fact on what I see i.e if someone told me aliens had landed in their back garden I wouldn't believe them until I saw it for myself. I in no way called you a liar, it was more based on human nature and our habit to question everything we don't have a concrete answer (backed up with evidence) to.

I know what I am trying to say but maybe I am just not making myself clear

 

[trancemonkey]

Apologies, I obviously didn't explain myself very well and in no way was I calling you a liar, nor questioning your expertise. I was trying to get across that logically, us as humans have a tendency to question everything that is not evident or evidence based to us, yes you can share your expertise but it's open to persuasion as most of us don't have the knowledge or expertise you have and neither have we seen it for ourselves - I base fact on what I see i.e if someone told me aliens had landed in their back garden I wouldn't believe them until I saw it for myself. I in no way called you a liar, it was more based on human nature and our habit to question everything we don't have a concrete answer (backed up with evidence) to.

I know what I am trying to say but maybe I am just not making myself clear

Ok understood... thanks for the explanation..

 

[trancemonkey]

You mean different reels when you get 7 Ragnarök spins compared to 7 spins of the other 4 types (I think)? Whne there is a starting wild/ 1 or 2 extra spins or wild reel or extra chests you see many viking on first spins instantly....on ragnarök you get 5 spins free of vikings and the maybe one or 2 at last spins...lol... noot random!

Cheating is another word for it...and rigged is also a word for it...lol...and so much for "why would we(programmers) rigg the softweare? What do we benfit from doin that?" still you use different reels....why?? haha

Because TG that is the way maths works... For features to work in certain ways we have to use different reels, different maths...

 

[interlog]

Because TG that is the way maths works... For features to work in certain ways we have to use different reels, different maths...

But as a player you would expect the features to play the same, not different because you made the effort of progressing through them, sometimes at great expense.

I fully understand that some feel that it is rigged and scripted.

 

[Tourettesguy]

Because TG that is the way maths works... For features to work in certain ways we have to use different reels, different maths...

Sure there are no ordinary wilds during free spisn but that with how math works is really BS...Stupidest explanation ever...why bother having a Ragnarök free spins in this case? The software/casino are suppose to lose some money when the player for once hit Ragnarök spins...so let the viking come and form wild like they do normally. It math is hard change programmers...lol whatta joke!

 

[Bloatgoat]

So Trancemonkey, can you show us some demo's of your work? I know there are free plays of various slots online. I'd like to see a part of your work. For me to understand a little better what's on the dev side rather then players side.

Back to the subject "why would the industry tamper with any settings" .. I know some landbased casino's set their slots a little more tight during the day and a little more lose during the night. This is to somehow compensate the high limit players. They have the ability for this. We see this as well at small casino's in Germany where the night is usually more tight compared to during the day. I know it's something you proberly would not agree to but it's actually happening. Germany is a worse country anyways; their slots are set to an avg of 60% RTP! This is in the non-official state casino's. I know someone as well who used to work for these type of places (make sure the guests get their drinks and so on). She said the moment a new owner came around all slots where set from 75% back to 60% in order to earn back the investment.

I know casino's cant tamper with their slots without being penalised for this due to their licence, but they can actually program certain ways, behaviours or differences in times of the day. At night online is a more worse experience then from 08:00 ~ 13:00.

I've seen this at my own landbased casino as well. Year ago i'd slam various jackpots on avg 3 to 4 grand. These days it's much more harder and the avg is 1000 to 1750. And after 2 times the slot goes back to being ice-cold again. I think it's due to they dont want big players raping up the machines.

 

[trancemonkey]

So Trancemonkey, can you show us some demo's of your work? I know there are free plays of various slots online. I'd like to see a part of your work. For me to understand a little better what's on the dev side rather then players side.

Back to the subject "why would the industry tamper with any settings" .. I know some landbased casino's set their slots a little more tight during the day and a little more lose during the night. This is to somehow compensate the high limit players. They have the ability for this. We see this as well at small casino's in Germany where the night is usually more tight compared to during the day. I know it's something you proberly would not agree to but it's actually happening. Germany is a worse country anyways; their slots are set to an avg of 60% RTP! This is in the non-official state casino's. I know someone as well who used to work for these type of places (make sure the guests get their drinks and so on). She said the moment a new owner came around all slots where set from 75% back to 60% in order to earn back the investment.

I know casino's cant tamper with their slots without being penalised for this due to their licence, but they can actually program certain ways, behaviours or differences in times of the day. At night online is a more worse experience then from 08:00 ~ 13:00.

I've seen this at my own landbased casino as well. Year ago i'd slam various jackpots on avg 3 to 4 grand. These days it's much more harder and the avg is 1000 to 1750. And after 2 times the slot goes back to being ice-cold again. I think it's due to they dont want big players raping up the machines.

I assume your talking about the AWPs in Germany because no slot manufacturers do RTPs that low. The lowest I have ever done is 85% and that a for the lowest RTP markets in the world.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Yes the "non-officlal" gambling places, they are called "Spielhalle" in germany. They licence these machines from vendors and they can decide what the RTP is on such machines. This requires to change the chip / eeprom only done by those vendors. If they mess with it themself it's losing their licence.

And yes, RTP of 60% is true. But what wonders me the most; if every spin on these machines would be genuine and such... I once saw some owner coming in, emptying the machines (cash / coins) and left it without hardly any cash inside of it. This means that the counter got somehow reset. And there is no way the machine is giving out a price that large that exceeds what's inside of the machine currently. Oh and on top of that, there's a limit of 500 euro each hour as in payout, so if you'd won 800 for example you'd have to wait 1.5 hour basicly for the money to transfer from credits to actual money > payout. It's bullshit lol.

In spielhalle this is different from what i understood; if a machine gave out a price / payout and there was'nt sufficient money inside the machine, personal had to manually refill it untill the payout was recieved. It's standalone machines rather then landbased casino where they'd handpay you.

Germany has very strict rules as well. There's a hard limit on playing time (1 hour) which includes 5 minutes 'break' where the machine would be locked. There's a hard limit on the amount of money entering the machine in one hour, i believe it's in between 60 and 80 euro. There's another limit on how fast the money gets dispatched from inserting a bill to the amount of 'credits' you can play.

Ridiculous if you ask me. But it's regulation and in this year 2018 it seems that they would be enforcing much more stronger rules from here on. Less spielhalle in every city or town etc.

As i said, they have various tricks. Online does'nt differ much if you ask me. Casino's want sticking players, not players who come in, deposit and cash out a large sum. So they have tricks to keep players as long as possible.

 

[trancemonkey]

Yes the "non-officlal" gambling places, they are called "Spielhalle" in germany. They licence these machines from vendors and they can decide what the RTP is on such machines. This requires to change the chip / eeprom only done by those vendors. If they mess with it themself it's losing their licence.

And yes, RTP of 60% is true. But what wonders me the most; if every spin on these machines would be genuine and such... I once saw some owner coming in, emptying the machines (cash / coins) and left it without hardly any cash inside of it. This means that the counter got somehow reset. And there is no way the machine is giving out a price that large that exceeds what's inside of the machine currently. Oh and on top of that, there's a limit of 500 euro each hour as in payout, so if you'd won 800 for example you'd have to wait 1.5 hour basicly for the money to transfer from credits to actual money > payout. It's bullshit lol.

In spielhalle this is different from what i understood; if a machine gave out a price / payout and there was'nt sufficient money inside the machine, personal had to manually refill it untill the payout was recieved. It's standalone machines rather then landbased casino where they'd handpay you.

Germany has very strict rules as well. There's a hard limit on playing time (1 hour) which includes 5 minutes 'break' where the machine would be locked. There's a hard limit on the amount of money entering the machine in one hour, i believe it's in between 60 and 80 euro. There's another limit on how fast the money gets dispatched from inserting a bill to the amount of 'credits' you can play.

Ridiculous if you ask me. But it's regulation and in this year 2018 it seems that they would be enforcing much more stronger rules from here on. Less spielhalle in every city or town etc.

As i said, they have various tricks. Online does'nt differ much if you ask me. Casino's want sticking players, not players who come in, deposit and cash out a large sum. So they have tricks to keep players as long as possible.

I think the spielhalles are on their way out anyway...

 

[Bloatgoat]

Yes they are. There where too many in various city's and / or towns. Germany has simular to the UK alot of playing addicts. It's only 400.000 registered people who have a serious gambling problem.

It's too obvious as well. They can set the RTP to 60% and a spielhalle with 8 to 12 machines is a good profit if you'd have the place full everyday. But i never liked the german gaming offer anyways. The games will make you go braindead noting how many spins it takes before some fucking bonus happens.

 

[slotmaster]

I assume your talking about the AWPs in Germany because no slot manufacturers do RTPs that low. The lowest I have ever done is 85% and that a for the lowest RTP markets in the world.

Hi from one of those markets.

 

[trancemonkey]

Sure there are no ordinary wilds during free spisn but that with how math works is really BS...Stupidest explanation ever...why bother having a Ragnarök free spins in this case? The software/casino are suppose to lose some money when the player for once hit Ragnarök spins...so let the viking come and form wild like they do normally. It math is hard change programmers...lol whatta joke!

I'm not defending Yggdrasil here... how they have done the maths is up to them. If the feature is shit then that's a different issue entirely. I'm just telling you why the reel bands are different.

Do you also complain that in DOA the number of wilds on the reels in the free spins is drastically lower than in the base game?

 

[trancemonkey]

So Trancemonkey, can you show us some demo's of your work? I know there are free plays of various slots online. I'd like to see a part of your work. For me to understand a little better what's on the dev side rather then players side.

Online games from me:

Fabric 4
Super Hot Fruits
Shamrock Lock
Centurion

Coral / William Hill are the sites you'll find them. I did these when I was at Inspired. They don't have a huge amount of exposure as they don't supply a lot of casinos.

 

[Bloatgoat]

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Install an adblocker btw. It looks very basic. And this is i think the difference in quality as i was saying before. You wont find these in landbased. I am not saying your work is no good, but i can tell the quality in between some games or simply bad knock offs from the original. With above i could design a slot myself too. It's not that hard. I work in Media business, adult. So you know where i am coming from. If i may advise you, please go for games that are FUN and STICK along with players. Playing slots is like an adventure in my beliefs and it should just as climbing a mountain be, a thrill. This is why i stick with certain games.