Shufflemaster machines being used to cheat? Patent 6651982, Computerized shuffels

stockman27

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Location
Mississippi
Just wanted to get some responses to this, I am a professional poker player & player very high stakes cash games. I have always thought the cards in a shufflemaster machine rolled off differently than a hand shuffle, I have recently found this patent specific to the deckmate shuffler used to shuffle cards in pokerrooms. It seems that the cards are not actually shuffled at all, but rather sorted in a desired order based on a computer program. The patent mentions capability of card recognition suit & rank which is sent to the microprocessor to shuffle the cards in order the casino wants. I also found a company called ameranth wireless which makes the software interface for the deckmate, it seems it called a pokermanagement program. Is this being used to deal either nonaction hands to keep players from going broker or being used to deal certain players better hands if the casino wants. You can open an account at freepatentsonline & download the full copy in PDF form full with illistrations & diagrams.
 

julester

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Location
London
Well...............

Do most land casinos use this 'shufflemaster' software? I can be a little skeptical (sorry!) about possible hidden agendas in big first time posts such as this but if what you say is true, it most certainly warrants further investigation. I am not a poker player but many players only have the integrity of a casino's word to go on and that of their license (if you consider that to verify integrity). A betrayal of trust or anything other than crystal clear trading signifies a rogue casino.

In the UK, cigarette manufacturers are obliged to put health warnings on packs of cigarettes i.e "Smoking Kills". The customer can then take an informed view and it's their choice. I see no difference with casinos. As a slot player, I would probably accept "The odds of winning a jackpot are 1 in a 1,000,000. You are likely to lose your house before that happens". I wouldn't accept "The odds of winning a jackpot are 1 in a 1,000,000. Today. Tomorrow might be different. In fact, if we don't like you we will fleece you alive. We can do what we want, when we want. After we are fat with profits and cash coming out of our ears we may give you 15 free spins and 4 repeats.but we wont let you cash out without a fight...You get the point.
 

stockman27

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Location
Mississippi
Most all casinos here use the shufflemaster to shuffle cards in pokerrooms. If you have read the patent description it will describe the capabilities of this machine. Shufflemaster claims that eventhough the patent allows for this that the current machines do not shuffle in this manner, but may in the future which is disturbing as well. I belive that some machines have been updated to include this technology, ameranth makes a software interface for the shufflemaster machine, hardware & software integration, why would they do this if the microprocessor in the machine were'nt using optical technology? So far they haven't responded to this part of my question. I've also emailed ameranth with these questions & yet to receive an answer.

Do most land casinos use this 'shufflemaster' software? I can be a little skeptical (sorry!) about possible hidden agendas in big first time posts such as this but if what you say is true, it most certainly warrants further investigation. I am not a poker player but many players only have the integrity of a casino's word to go on and that of their license (if you consider that to verify integrity). A betrayal of trust or anything other than crystal clear trading signifies a rogue casino.

In the UK, cigarette manufacturers are obliged to put health warnings on packs of cigarettes i.e "Smoking Kills". The customer can then take an informed view and it's their choice. I see no difference with casinos. As a slot player, I would probably accept "The odds of winning a jackpot are 1 in a 1,000,000. You are likely to lose your house before that happens". I wouldn't accept "The odds of winning a jackpot are 1 in a 1,000,000. Today. Tomorrow might be different. In fact, if we don't like you we will fleece you alive. We can do what we want, when we want. After we are fat with profits and cash coming out of our ears we may give you 15 free spins and 4 repeats.but we wont let you cash out without a fight...You get the point.
 

Alexishot69

Banned User
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Edinburgh
its always

Been slightly sceptical of online poker and the "juiced" hands syndrome..However ive always thought that yes the cards<hands> are random BUT that they are pre-programmed hands million of them to come out in a random manner to make it such an exciting game which has become massive...in reality poker in live situations can become very tedious and boring after a while but that never ever happens online ..just my opinion...
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
Until recently, I always thought that the Prima network would never 'juice' hands to enhance the rake....

After only recently returning to the network, I now believe that to be false. In only ~100 hands of play, I saw a turned boat lose to a rivered straight flush as well as a nut flush lose to a rivered boat - both hands, how could you get away from them? Near impossible.

Needless to say, I'll stick to Stars from now on.
 

stockman27

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Location
Mississippi
All online sites are rigged, but not necessarily juiced hands, They mostly want to managed their player base, they do this by programming certain accounts to win or lose, good players are handicapped to keep them from breaking weak players. This keeps the most amount of players in the game for the long term so these sites can keep revenues up. Stars is rigged too. I use to be the biggest cash player on full tilt, they are all programmed & use hot bots

Until recently, I always thought that the Prima network would never 'juice' hands to enhance the rake....

After only recently returning to the network, I now believe that to be false. In only ~100 hands of play, I saw a turned boat lose to a rivered straight flush as well as a nut flush lose to a rivered boat - both hands, how could you get away from them? Near impossible.

Needless to say, I'll stick to Stars from now on.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
All online sites are rigged, but not necessarily juiced hands, They mostly want to managed their player base, they do this by programming certain accounts to win or lose, good players are handicapped to keep them from breaking weak players. This keeps the most amount of players in the game for the long term so these sites can keep revenues up. Stars is rigged too. I use to be the biggest cash player on full tilt, they are all programmed & use hot bots

Ahhh, joy, another conspiracy theory. They're hardly rigged, but I definitely wouldn't rule out 'juiced hands.'

People that think the cards are out and out rigged = players looking for an excuse for why they lose all of the time.

The only thing that made any sense in your post is the bot part. Not by the rooms themselves (Why would any non-networked room such as Stars risk millions of $ in rake, not to mention being boycotted by every poker player online, by running bots?), but by players that think they're going to get rich quick. They don't need to "rig" certain accounts just to increase revenue, they're going to get the rake no matter what, just by sheer volume.

IMO, they're better off by generating more rake with fewer deposits. That way, they're saving money on fees associated with increased deposits...especially when it comes to large deposits.

But anyways, if you want to cry rigged, just search through the forum for one of the many other "online poker is rigged" threads and read those. There's plenty.

The point is, you call yourself a professional, but yet you can't sweat it out when you're running bad, and cry "rigged" to justify your losses. This thread further proves that you think this conspiracy theory exists online and off. High limit or not, there's donks and whiners at every level of play.

Did I hit the nail on the head?
 

stockman27

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Location
Mississippi
Winbig

Hit the nail on the Head?? Hardly, I'm actually a very high stakes cash player & have one of the highest win rates of anyone in the country in the stakes I play, I'm also ranked top in the 20 - 50 in POY points at several magazines or point rating systems including bluff & cardplayer & I'm not even a tourny player, I play mainly cash games & I've read more than my fair share of the rigged post so I know which ones serve merit & which ones do not. Juiced hands? I'm sorry but they don't juice hands, serves no purpose since rake is maxed on most hands, They program accounts to a parody algorithm. They dont want anyone winning or losing a lot of money.
Good NL players would break weak players by multitabling & thus cut the supply of poker players that play at all the sites that have come up over the past several years.

Oh, & your elementary thought out why would they rig because they make so much money argument is so old. Come up with something more intelligent & thought out, weve all heard that crap before.


Ahhh, joy, another conspiracy theory. They're hardly rigged, but I definitely wouldn't rule out 'juiced hands.'

People that think the cards are out and out rigged = players looking for an excuse for why they lose all of the time.

The only thing that made any sense in your post is the bot part. Not by the rooms themselves (Why would any non-networked room such as Stars risk millions of $ in rake, not to mention being boycotted by every poker player online, by running bots?), but by players that think they're going to get rich quick. They don't need to "rig" certain accounts just to increase revenue, they're going to get the rake no matter what, just by sheer volume.

IMO, they're better off by generating more rake with fewer deposits. That way, they're saving money on fees associated with increased deposits...especially when it comes to large deposits.

But anyways, if you want to cry rigged, just search through the forum for one of the many other "online poker is rigged" threads and read those. There's plenty.

The point is, you call yourself a professional, but yet you can't sweat it out when you're running bad, and cry "rigged" to justify your losses. This thread further proves that you think this conspiracy theory exists online and off. High limit or not, there's donks and whiners at every level of play.

Did I hit the nail on the head?
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
So do you troll the forums all the time? You happen to be up at 3am & notice that i make a post on this forum

Troll? Check my post count, reputation points, "thanks", and date joined. Usually trolls don't get "thank you's" on over 1,000 posts.

Would you like to re-phrase that question?

I had eye surgery last week, and when my eyes get tired, I do too. I sleep when I get the chance, usually not any normal hours.

Now, quit avoiding the question. Proof?
 

stockman27

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Location
Mississippi
Proof of What? My accomplishments?

Sex Male Final tables 6

Ranked #17 player in the World in Top 10 finishes in 2008(5)
Ranked #26 player in the World in money finishes in 2008(10)

This Year IAR Ranking 29
This Year United States ranking 22

And I don't even play many tournies, If I did I would be at the Legends of Poker in Vegas now, I play half as many as most of the guys ahead of me. I'm a cash player
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
:lolup: and instead you are having a ding dong with winbig at 3am. :)

Vegas baby! :thumbsup:

:)

Funny, because Gabe Costner lives in CA, not MS. Unless of course the IAR site is wrong....:rolleyes:


Back to our regularly scheduled program.....have fun with the thread and conspiracy theories.

btw: "Sex Male" final tables? Freudian slip?
 

Alexishot69

Banned User
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Edinburgh
i think

to be honest its apretty worthless excercise getting involved in a argument about this cos bottom line is we will never ever know until someone provides categorical proof ..we can all have our own theories but bottom line is as i say well never know..my stance on it is that hands are pre-programmed and come out in a random manner to make it more exciting but thats my opinion only and if i felt it was downright cheating id never play at all ..
 

stockman27

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Location
Mississippi
Alexis, I understand what you're saying. It's very hard to prove to someone that's naive & always trust large corporations that are designed to make absolutely as much money as possible. It's hard enough to try & keep them honest when they are regulated, but when given the opportunity to contol a billion dollar industry with absolutely no regulatory authority watch out.

I was playing planet poker & paradise when they were the only ones around & I used to be #1 in the country in full tilt frequent points so I've played my share of online poker. The problem is that I've been playing for a living for years & crushing the games. At fulltilt actually run over the games for a while & went on a 22 day winning streak playing 3 & 4 tables at a time 14 hours a day that turned into a 15 day losing streak. I've had over 60 accounts at different sites & always run my initial deposit up huge at every site, but once I actually had a decent amount of money there, I couldn't win. It's so obvious that pattern exist at every single site with no exception. There is absolutely no other proof needed but the fact that almost everyone that plays has this same problem. The only winners are the ones that are in on it or allowed to be a winner most likely because they are at the forefront of the public, they run a blog, affiliate etc. I've spent years watching this phenomenon & it's amazing that normal players are still duped by these sites.
 

Alexishot69

Banned User
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Edinburgh
interesting

Alexis, I understand what you're saying. It's very hard to prove to someone that's naive & always trust large corporations that are designed to make absolutely as much money as possible. It's hard enough to try & keep them honest when they are regulated, but when given the opportunity to contol a billion dollar industry with absolutely no regulatory authority watch out.

I was playing planet poker & paradise when they were the only ones around & I used to be #1 in the country in full tilt frequent points so I've played my share of online poker. The problem is that I've been playing for a living for years & crushing the games. At fulltilt actually run over the games for a while & went on a 22 day winning streak playing 3 & 4 tables at a time 14 hours a day that turned into a 15 day losing streak. I've had over 60 accounts at different sites & always run my initial deposit up huge at every site, but once I actually had a decent amount of money there, I couldn't win. It's so obvious that pattern exist at every single site with no exception. There is absolutely no other proof needed but the fact that almost everyone that plays has this same problem. The only winners are the ones that are in on it or allowed to be a winner most likely because they are at the forefront of the public, they run a blog, affiliate etc. I've spent years watching this phenomenon & it's amazing that normal players are still duped by these sites.

But maybe then the bottom line is until you have 100% hard evidence then perhaps maybe not playing online might be the answer??
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
stockman: What is it with this subject? Some agenda...

You've posted many places trying to get people on your side, with the same results as you're getting here. Give it up already??

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


And would you care to comment why you're banned at 2+2?


oops, I see why

stockman has made a few posts under a few different handles on 2+2 with the same theme.

Time to ignore the troll.

Thank you, come again.

ps: I see via your profile that you're just sitting in this thread waiting for replies to come in....:rolleyes:
 
Top