SCI FI CASINO - Outta this World?

I knew I had never heard of it before - but just some of the text makes me want to laugh.

First, here is part of the WHOIS:

Domain name: onlinecouncil.com

DNS servers:
NS.FASTWEBSITES.COM
NS2.FASTWEBSITES.COM

Created: 06/30/2003 11:20:10
Expires: 06/30/2004 11:20:10


As you can see, registered June 30, 2003.

Next, some text from the site:

Established in 1998, the Online Casino Gaming Council, OCGC has been actively tackling the ever growing problem of corrupt and unfair online casinos. We have established a clear set of guidelines for all of our members to adhere by. These guidelines were designed to ensure all their clients are guaranteed to receive fair and secure gaming at our members sites.

Bullshit.

Lastly, it has a list of 6 casinos. With affiliate tags. OLD affiliate tags. SO old that it still lists English Harbour, Silver Dollar and Caribbean Gold as Microgaming casinos!

Give it a wide berth.
 
Whether Sci-Fi is on Meister's Rogue list or not, they are solid and most experienced players know it.
 
In response to Spearmaster's excellent question:

Golden Palace has turned itself into a very good orginization lately, but thier checkered past cannot be forgotten. They were outright thieves, in May 2000, and this cannot be forgiven or forgotten, since they still refuse to pay thier debts to players from 3 years ago.

In addition to thier theft of an enormous amount of money, which some believe is well above the 100K mark, they lied about the amount confiscated, stating it was less than 15K, than they went onto forums like Casinomeister pretending to be happy players. In fact, the name of the player that posted on Casinomeister was "Jersey Girl" which is now the name of a slot machine there. (Aqua version) They lied and STILL LIE about thier top 10 winners listing. The amounts won are PHONY!!

I believe it was Golden Palace that originally got the feds involved in an attempt to bust Sam A. Ashley (Steve Adkins) on racketeering charges.

Rumor has it that the GP folks hired a private investigator to do some major research on Steve, and it was this detective agency that somehow was able to find out about Steve's food center scam.
This agency got in touch with authorities. If not for GP, Steve's scam may never have come to light. Anyway, I have veered too much off topic...

Should GP be redeemed from the rogue list? I now believe the answer is YES. Should they be redeemed from the warning list? Possibly.

Perhaps Bryan would like to consider adding them to his new cautionary listing. (Borderline Not Recommended)

After all, the event took place THREE years ago.
CPA's recent comment resonates in my mind. CPA states that after that May 2000 fiasco ended, Golden Palace made some critical internal policy changes to assure nothing like that would happen again. And in these THREE years, they have kept to thier word and honored thier rules.

Many satisfied players have come and gone.
Myself included.

Can a leopard change it's spots? Usually NO. Unless ofcourse its extremely beneficial to the leopard. In this situation, GP realized that it was *MORE PROFITABLE* to carefully evaluate the promos it offered, and to make absolutely sure to honor its rules for every player. They realized it was more profitable NOT TO STEAL ANY MORE MONEY. Wow, what a concept!

Will they steal again? Its unlikely, but there's simply no way to know.
 
Very thorough post Dave-r, but I cannot imagine why anyone would even contemplate a grant of clemency to GP. To my knowledge GP has made absolutely no attempt to make those people that they screwed, whole.

Not to mention the fact that there are many casinos out there that have not screwed over players and then walked away. I think I would feel much more comfortable in giving a casino that hasn't gone the way of GP my business before I'd give GP a second shot at doing it again. Have a good one.

Cipher
 
Two good posts from Dave R and Cypher, imo.

In principle I am one of those who does not find the possibility of redemption unacceptable - but I think that it should be contingent on the casino concerned redressing the wrongs it did to the many players that were so disgustingly ripped off by Mark Francis, Jack Strulovich and the rest of the GP crew back then. Those that can still be found, that is. There are still many with bitter memories and a lot of money was involved.

It is true that GP rarely makes the bad news pages these days, and they may have made a conscious business effort to reform, but I also find it difficult to forget that some of those involved were convicted of one the biggest telemarketing frauds ever perpetrated on Canadians - many of them old folks - prior to their move into online gambling.

If Dave R's information above regarding the investigation and informing on Steve Adkins is true (I had not heard that story before but based on some of the other things GP did at the time it would not surprise me) then I would say GP did the industry a favour in exposing Adkins in their efforts to take him out. His work on behalf of players was largely wiped out by his conviction for fraud and the disgraceful way in which he took advantage of the hungry.
 
"In principle I am one of those who does not find the possibility of redemption unacceptable - but I think that it should be contingent on the casino concerned redressing the wrongs it did to the many players that were so disgustingly ripped off by Mark Francis, Jack Strulovich and the rest of the GP crew back then. Those that can still be found, that is. There are still many with bitter memories and a lot of money was involved."/b

I agree with that, regarding that casinos should be accountable for their actions, or non-actions.

Now I know I'll probably be called a shit stirrer, but I have to ask.

Jetset, when you were part of casinojetset.com,
did you end up paying out all the members that were owed money after it went blacklisted, then belly-up?

I'm not trying to de-rail this thread, but after seeing some former rogue casino owners around trying to redeem themselves, it makes you wonder how honest they are, or if they will back up what they say.
 
Interesting that you feel it necessary to bring up this historical event, Deeq. The short answer is that no players from the Canadian-owned Tropika group were shorted when it went to the wall because Microgaming did a deal with the Canadian owners that ensured that everyone was paid - I believe the first instance of a turnkey provider taking this course of action.

However, if your real purpose in bringing this up is to have a go at myself, you should understand that I was part of a team contracted by the Canadians to build, set-up and initially run 12 online casinos in 1996.

This was done successfully, and most online gamblers from around that time will vouch for the efficiency of Support and fast payouts during this period.

Some time before the decline of this group commenced due to ill-advised management promo decisions and a lack of investment focus on the part of the owners I had completed my contract and returned to my own interests, although I retained a very small minority shareholding in one of the twelve casinos as part of my remuneration (as it turned out this was valueless) This minority shareholding gave me no say in the continued management of the group after I left, although I was both publicly and privately critical of the way in which things were being done.
 
First off, my apologies to love2vegas for interrupting the thread.

Jetset, why would I want to have a go at you? This is not personal, merely curiousity. The only reason I brought this up is because I like most of the people here are tired of seeing people getting screwed by casinos, your name sounded familiar, and that when I saw an old interview from Winner Online about you and your part with Casino Jetset, it made me question not just your background, but the fact that how well do any of us know the background of some of these guys that run casinos.

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I went back and read it again, and these
statements stuck out to me:

" Then I am a part-owner and marketing director of an online casino called Casino Jetset."

"I have been involved with this casino from its earliest days."

"I was a founder member of the team which planned, built and launched Jetset almost two and a half years ago "

"Right from the start we decided that fast and reliable payouts had to be a prime business objective - our player surveys told us that. We've always held this as a top priority - even when we were hit hard with several $10 000 plus winners in our first month or so!"

Reading this, the use of the term "we" implies that you did have a say in what went on.

Like I said, this isn't personal at all; but put yourself in my position. If you saw this same information about someone else, wouldn't you have questions yourself?

I'm not trying to turn this into a bash, for anyone who plans on chiming in. As a gambler I think we all should do as much research on casinos and their owners, it might save alot of grief.
 
I don't buy your "I just happened to come across" line, Deeq. I've seen too many attempted hatchet jobs in this business to be that naive.

In fact I think you may be using similar tactics to those that the notorious Warren Cloud employs from time to time when he tries to discredit me at WOL in his postings as "your_nightmare" in attempts to discourage me from recording his activities. One or two others have tried it, too when they had an axe to grind and no material to work with.

I have given you the facts. Make of them what you will - I have nothing to hide or be ashamed of.

And you apparently did not read this part of my answering post:

"The short answer is that no players from the Canadian-owned Tropika group were shorted when it went to the wall because Microgaming did a deal with the Canadian owners that ensured that everyone was paid - I believe the first instance of a turnkey provider taking this course of action."

(Message edited by jetset on November 07, 2003)
 
Me? Warren Cloud? LOL! Not likely! You can check my IP, profile, etc. Honestly, I am not him, and as for "your nightmare," I have no clue who that is. I really did just happen to read that interview, along with other older interviews on different sites, despite what you believe.

I can understand being defensive after having people trying to discredit you, but I think you're being a bit paranoid here. I am not trying to do anything, but ask a few questions.

As I stated, if you were me, just someone who gambles online, and reads articles about gambling, not just here at Bryans, (Sorry Bryan, lol!) and you can across that article, you wouldn't be curious and ask questions?

I did indeed read your whole post, and I am glad that everyone got paid. I still have questions, but I won't ask you anything more, because you seem to be hostile to any questions about this.

The fact that it's past history doesn't matter, my point is that everyone should question what's behind casinos, and their owners. Isn't this why we come to forums like this?

Lastly, you can get pissy and defensive about me asking questions, but when I see that trait in someone who's supposed to be honest, it makes me a little doubtful of their sincerity. Wouldn't you feel the same, Jetset?
 
No one accused you of being Warren Cloud - your tactics are similar, so perhaps you are the paranoid one. If you have read this history as assiduously as you claim to have done, you would have seen the true facts in the old threads too, but you still felt you had to bring these old false allegations up again? It is not "pissy" so much as tiresome to have to protect my reputation by putting the real truth in for the record every time someone like you posts in this irrelevant and intentionally damaging manner.

Coincidentally over at the other site I note that Warren has been busy again trying his clumsy ancient hatchet stunt. It is ironic that a real casino owner with arguably the most questionable ongoing rep in the business should be throwing false historical accusations around again, but that's Cloud for you.

The other thought that occurs to me is that GP being the real focus of this thread may be having a little *fun* too. But then maybe I am being paranoid after all.

I am content for the moment. You have shown your colours and I have recorded the real facts surrounding the events some years back - particularly the player payouts - in this thread for the record.
 
My tactics? I didn't know asking some questions about past events was considered a "tactic." As for intentionally damaging anyone, you're wrong about that one. And yes, I have gone through tons of old threads about this, and other people/ casinos, and actually had a couple more questions, but chose not to ask them.

GP and Cloud can go blow as far as I'm concerned, although maybe I'll start asking them questions, since I'm also curious about them.

This is my last post on this, I find it sad that I had to be answered in such an arrogant hostile manner. In this way, you yourself, have also shown your colours.
 
To be fair Deeg it's like this..

This Jetset guy is here and has feilded this question many moons ago many times over.

The others you speak of are not here and have not answered any questions.

Apart from that i have no insider knowledge of what gives where or when or what goes wherever or whenever.

In your exchange i see..Jetset has shown a human trait, no more - IE he can get pissy as you put it. He has and does get annoyed, he will admit that i am sure, those are normal colours to me guy.

I know these things not because i'm a Jet apologist Deeg, more he's got pissy with me before too.
 
I repeat - not *pissy* simply impatient at having to step up every time someone with an agenda tries to discredit me on information that is (a) old and (b) false. And these same posts giving the true facts have been posted by myself and others who have been around long enough to know the real story in every thread that these people "just happened to come across".

You have to consider the liklihood of the claimed *innocent* motivation for these occasional assaults, and the relationship of the attack to events going on at the same time that may just be connected.

This is still a pretty wild industry, and those who put their heads up over the rampart from time to time to expose bad behaviour or help others who have been badly treated on either side of the player-casino divide easily become targets of some pretty scummy people who play hard-ball without too much respect for the truth.

Several posters here who fall in this category have experience of anonymous personal threats to themselves and their families, massive unwanted signups for porn spam, attempted frame-ups, damage to property, site hacking attempts and the most common - attempted message board assasination - too often to take this sort of thing lightly.

We all went O/T there somewhat.

To summarise, I'm with DaveR on redemptions - clean the slate with any legit claims that are still outstanding and, provided the casino has been operating in a fair and acceptable manner for a reasonable period of time it should be possible to put it on a cautionary list. If after a further agreed period they are still doing it right, then full redemption should be attainable.
 
For what it's worth, jetset, your reputation's still gold with me. I didn't get any negative feeling after reading Deeg's question. I'm sure I am speaking for everyone who reads this forum regularly.
Also, I didn't interpret Deeg's question as trying to discredit you. He seemed sincerely interested in what it was all about, although I can understand why you might feel defensive when something comes up out of left field like that.
Maybe you should have a little copy/paste file in notebook with a well-phrased reply to this question, since it comes up once in a while, and save yourself some grief.
Take Care!


:kiss:
 

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