Rushmore - withdrawal delay

[nikkidog]

Rushmore

I am one of those players who have been waiting for a withdrawal that was approved on 12/1/2011. I am not a VIP. From the beginning they told me about the processor problem, so waited patiently . Weeks went by and still nothing. Was told over and over again, do not worry you will get paid. Many unanswered emails from the withdrawal department. . When I did received an answer was told the same thing " you will get paid. for sure " just have a little more patience. In the last couple of weeks their answer to my questions are that my wire transfer is frozen at the Bank of America, said that all wire transfer go there before it goes to our banks They gave me the tracking number and told me to contact the BOA and ask them to have it released. I contacted them, but they could not give me any information because I do not have an account with the. There is no record of a wire transfer to my bank. They said whoever sent it would have to call. I told Tara what the BOA said and she answered after about a week and said that the processor is in constant contact with the BOA and they are working on it. She said that they can not pay me my 725.00 until the funds are sent back to them. I really do not expect to be paid,maybe because I won the money on a tourney. They gave me a 25.00 free chip for my troubles, which I did not even ask for, and are so willing to offer me deposit bonuses, but I will not deposit there again. I used to before all this trouble began and had several good cash outs. So after reading this, what do you think my chances of getting paid are, not good is what I think. Thanks for listening.

 

[LHofsdal]

You have been waiting since December 1st for your withdrawal from this place. Now they are saying that the Processor has to wait for BOA to send them the money back? When did the processor try and process your money? It doesn't take over 12 weeks to get money sent back, maybe 2 weeks tops. They are lying to you.

Don't let up on them, keep pestering them. You won that money and if they can pay other players they can pay you. They have resorted to telling people different things, and now all these lies are catching up with them. This is unacceptable.

Now that they are indeed put in the rogue pit, this just adds another reason for people to stay away from them. What a horrilbe and ugly fall from grace this operation has had.

I really hope they pay everone soon.

LH

 

[nikkidog]

Rushmore

They told me that the processor sent the money on 12/5/2011. After awhile when I never received it they said it was delayed because of the weekend and then it was because of a holiday and all kinds of excuses. They never mentioned anything about it being frozen and seized at the BOA until a couple of weeks ago. I have not let up on them. I am in chat everyday ( even though they some times cut me off from chat ) and email the withdrawal department everyday. I know they are lying and have been right from the start, but I will not give up.

 

[Temperance Fox]

Sorry, didn't read the entire 3ead, but seems to me someone has been paid, so I ask for it
Or people crying out only if are waiting, and when they've been paid ....hallo goodbye ???Nobody write down "Yes, I've been paid" ? I ' ve seen , now, few people confirming their cash outs.

 

[chuchu59]

They told me that the processor sent the money on 12/5/2011. After awhile when I never received it they said it was delayed because of the weekend and then it was because of a holiday and all kinds of excuses. They never mentioned anything about it being frozen and seized at the BOA until a couple of weeks ago. I have not let up on them. I am in chat everyday ( even though they some times cut me off from chat ) and email the withdrawal department everyday. I know they are lying and have been right from the start, but I will not give up.

This is the reason why I am so vocal against this group. They keep lying using a different excuse each time which initially seems to give you hope but which leaves you more frustrated in the end. Whatever they say, dont believe them as these people dare to stare straight into your face whilst lying. This will not change anytime soon and in fact I am starting to get worried they will go bust if they dont get a generous injection of fresh funds.

 

[SlotsLover]

Payments?

Can people who were owed money by Rushmore report on whether or not they've been paid? I'm still waiting on mine and received the nonsense email (received by another poster above) that the bank froze the funds afterthey paid it so Rushmore does not owe it anymore. This is horribly illogical thinking on their part.

I see this thread has dried up a bit so I have the feeling some players have been paid and not reporting and others still in my shoes may have given up.

 

[Nifty29]

Can people who were owed money by Rushmore report on whether or not they've been paid? I'm still waiting on mine and received the nonsense email (received by another poster above) that the bank froze the funds afterthey paid it so Rushmore does not owe it anymore. This is horribly illogical thinking on their part.

I see this thread has dried up a bit so I have the feeling some players have been paid and not reporting and others still in my shoes may have given up.

How long have you been waiting?

 

[SlotsLover]

How long have you been waiting?

requested 12-19, approved 12-22, so three months almost exactly

more so than the delay is that they told me my money is in the "frozen" funds by the bank and that they don't intend to pay it because they already sent it. I told them I thought this was not a logical conclusion and horrible for business (if, in fact, they ever can turn themselves around). They say they are still working on unfreezing this money, but I'm not optimistic.

I'll certainly report any updates here.

 

[nikkidog]

Rushmore

I have still not received my winnings that was approved on 12/1/2011. Same response as yours, money is frozen and can not pay me until they get it back. Said they are working on it daily. I told them I have been waiting 4 months, so said send me a check and then you wait to get it back from the bank. Of course have not received a response. I know of some who did sent in a report of not being paid, but has not heard back about it yet.
It is called CDS and it is located at the bottom left hand side of their website, high lighted in blue. When you click on it it brings you to a page that says Payout Investigation Program, open to all players using Real Time Gaming. I have not done it yet, waiting to hear if the person that sent in her complaint hears back and what they say.

 

[chuchu59]

CDS? Just a waste of time IMHO.

 

[nikkidog]

Rushmore

You are right.That is why I have not bothered with it. she sent the complaint in a few weeks ago and has still not heard back from them about it.

 

[lettingyouknow]

Let's take Action

Let's take some action against these casinos!!!!

But first I was wondering, if the ppl who have not been paid are ones that won in their $10,000 freeroll tourney? Or if there are players who have not been paid depositing and playing with their own funds?

Also what casino would use a third party processor knowing that the wires would go into BOA, they will automatically FREEZE that money! The processor knows it. I would ask for Proof to see that the funds went to the processor.

We should Take Action against these casinos and have a NOT PLAY TODAY campaign. One day of not playing there would make them a little more cautious as to the way they treat their players.

 

[Diane]

Let's take some action against these casinos!!!!

But first I was wondering, if the ppl who have not been paid are ones that won in their $10,000 freeroll tourney? Or if there are players who have not been paid depositing and playing with their own funds?

Also what casino would use a third party processor knowing that the wires would go into BOA, they will automatically FREEZE that money! The processor knows it. I would ask for Proof to see that the funds went to the processor.

We should Take Action against these casinos and have a NOT PLAY TODAY campaign. One day of not playing there would make them a little more cautious as to the way they treat their players.

I understand your vehement concern ------ but I doubt there are members of this CM Forum still playing at any of the Rushmore Casinos. So other than a free chip play, we have already voted with our feet (mouse?) by not frequenting this group any more.

Diane

 

[SlotsLover]

My deposit was a cash deposit with no bonus of between $50 and $100 (I don't recall the exact amount) and it was probably in August or so. I just played around with the money until I finally withdrew in Dec. I know, I know, I missed my chance to get paid earlier.

I wonder if the players whose funds were not frozen in that BOA batch have received their money. The chat operator told me that payments were now much better and that they have a new processor but, obviously, I told him there was no chance of my depositing until I was paid that other money (and found out the others had been paid as well).

 

[LOOKAWAY]

I had two withdrawals over the delayed payment process, the first was paid in four days and last was paid just over two weeks. Both were from there 10k tourney. I'm from the UK.

I just hit the big one this weekend on the 10k tourney. I could do with the cash not had a withdrawal from a cash deposit in flipping months.

I was also charged for the withdrawal via neteller not noticed this before at an RTG, it cost me $48 to withdrawal $2.400

I came in third last year as well.

Maybe it is USA who are most affected by processor problems.

 

[footdr]

I am so sorry to hear that players are still waiting for withdrawals in December, I was one of them but the "new(supposed) processor paid mine via wire to my BOA account. I am not buying the frozen funds thing. I was told funds frozen when processed by the "old processor" who sent wires in December. But they paid me after the new processor came on board.

I will try to get more information out of the vip rep that helped me get paid and post back response here.

Perhaps it is true that due to lack of players/deposits they are near bankrupt, who knows. Regardless if the funds were confiscated, they are still open for business and should honor players winnings IMO

 

[chuchu59]

Let's take some action against these casinos!!!!

But first I was wondering, if the ppl who have not been paid are ones that won in their $10,000 freeroll tourney? Or if there are players who have not been paid depositing and playing with their own funds?

Also what casino would use a third party processor knowing that the wires would go into BOA, they will automatically FREEZE that money! The processor knows it. I would ask for Proof to see that the funds went to the processor.

We should Take Action against these casinos and have a NOT PLAY TODAY campaign. One day of not playing there would make them a little more cautious as to the way they treat their players.

IMO this wouldnt work as there should already be many players who have jumped ship so to speak. Its a vicious cycle ie less players less deposits and further reduces their ability to pay. The wise thing to do is take no action including not depositing and hope for the best. The only processor problem I can perceive is they havent paid their dues to the processor so nobody will work for them. Just because another player is paid means absolutely nothing in terms of you or others getting paid. We never know but a white knight might come to their rescue but from the look of things its a bottomless pit so who will be so foolish?

 

[footdr]

My deposit was a cash deposit with no bonus of between $50 and $100 (I don't recall the exact amount) and it was probably in August or so. I just played around with the money until I finally withdrew in Dec. I know, I know, I missed my chance to get paid earlier.

I wonder if the players whose funds were not frozen in that BOA batch have received their money. The chat operator told me that payments were now much better and that they have a new processor but, obviously, I told him there was no chance of my depositing until I was paid that other money (and found out the others had been paid as well).

They are smart, they kept giving the run-around to players with december deposits until the date to dispute charges expired. I really believe this as I threatened to dispute and was paid within a couple of weeks. I had enough deposits that totalled the amount they owed me so I could have. When you are dealing with a casino that you deposited at in good faith and gave them more than ample time to pay your winnings you have every right to seek remedy by disputing the charges up to the amount you are owed. This is your only remedy as trying to file a civil or criminal suit would be impossible. After you dispute charges it becomes an issue between the bank and entity that submitted the charges, they have 30-90 days to respond to the dispute and hopefully would decide to pay you instead of have the charges reversed and owing additional fees or risking their ability to process visa and mastercard transactions/and their accounts with visa and mastercard.

Disputing a charge is not the same as a charge-back as only the bank can decide to charge-back or reverse charges after receiving and reviewing the merchants or their processors response.

 

[nikkidog]

Rushmore

Well my friend who submitted a dispute to the CDS has heard from them and also from Rushmore. The Casino sent her an email stating that her winnings that were approved in Dec. was sent to the processor and she should receive it shortly, but we have all heard that before. I will keep you updated and let you know if she receives her money. I have also been hearing that people who were sent tracking numbers, that many of them have received the same track # as others. I don't know if that makes any difference, but why would they send the same tracking number. Mine was not the same , but that does not mean that other people did not receive the same number as mine.

 

[Nifty29]

They are smart, they kept giving the run-around to players with december deposits until the date to dispute charges expired. I really believe this as I threatened to dispute and was paid within a couple of weeks. I had enough deposits that totalled the amount they owed me so I could have. When you are dealing with a casino that you deposited at in good faith and gave them more than ample time to pay your winnings you have every right to seek remedy by disputing the charges up to the amount you are owed. This is your only remedy as trying to file a civil or criminal suit would be impossible. After you dispute charges it becomes an issue between the bank and entity that submitted the charges, they have 30-90 days to respond to the dispute and hopefully would decide to pay you instead of have the charges reversed and owing additional fees or risking their ability to process visa and mastercard transactions/and their accounts with visa and mastercard.

Disputing a charge is not the same as a charge-back as only the bank can decide to charge-back or reverse charges after receiving and reviewing the merchants or their processors response.

Disputing the charge IS the same as a chargeback insofar as online gaming is concerned.

If you don't believe me, try "disputing" a charge at your favorite operator

Threatening chargebacks is frowned upon here at CM which you well know. Still, you regularly state it is acceptable when one encounters payment problems. It is irresponsible, as newbs may well read that and think its good to go and the best way to solve a problem....which it clearly is not.

 

[Surasanji]

Disputing the charge IS the same as a chargeback insofar as online gaming is concerned.

If you don't believe me, try "disputing" a charge at your favorite operator

Threatening chargebacks is frowned upon here at CM which you well know. Still, you regularly state it is acceptable when one encounters payment problems. It is irresponsible, as newbs may well read that and think its good to go and the best way to solve a problem....which it clearly is not.

Just frowned upon? I thought CB threats would get you banned here!

I can understand the frustration with all of this. And the anger.

Its one of those weird times I'm happy I could never play at a particular casino. :/

 

[chuchu59]

Just frowned upon? I thought CB threats would get you banned here!

I can understand the frustration with all of this. And the anger.

Its one of those weird times I'm happy I could never play at a particular casino. :/

I could be wrong but the mere threat of a chargeback may not necessarily get one banned though an actual chargeback almost certainly would.

Personally I take a liberal view of chargebacks. In the real world, chargebacks/ disputed charges normally occur when fraud occurs eg someone used your cc for purchase or the company did not deliver the services/goods as promised. If there is simply a delay in payment this should not amount to a reason for a chargeback as the player was provided with the chips to play. Of course, when every avenue is exhausted and payment is not forthcoming and there are no legal means to get payment this is the last recourse. Aword of caution though. There could be instances when a player contemplates charging back an amount which is far greater than what he is owed and IMO this amounts to rogue player behaviour.

 

[footdr]

Disputing the charge IS the same as a chargeback insofar as online gaming is concerned.

If you don't believe me, try "disputing" a charge at your favorite operator

Threatening chargebacks is frowned upon here at CM which you well know. Still, you regularly state it is acceptable when one encounters payment problems. It is irresponsible, as newbs may well read that and think its good to go and the best way to solve a problem....which it clearly is not.

Disputing a charge, in bank terms, means questioning a charge for various reasons, one being when the merchant fails to honor purchase or provide the service as stated on their website. A dispute allows the entity that submitted the charges ample time to respond by complying or providing the reason they are due the money. Only the Bank can determine whether a chargeback is appropriate.

This is a means of arbitrating a transaction. If certain casinos continue to take deposits knowing they will have deficulty paying winnings then that is fraud, pure and simple.

Again, the player would be committing fraud if they dispute charges above and amount they haven't been paid.

there has to be a legal remedy for players in extreme situations and I would consider waiting 3 months for payment to be extreme.

 

[Nifty29]

Disputing a charge, in bank terms, means questioning a charge for various reasons, one being when the merchant fails to honor purchase or provide the service as stated on their website. A dispute allows the entity that submitted the charges ample time to respond by complying or providing the reason they are due the money. Only the Bank can determine whether a chargeback is appropriate.

This is a means of arbitrating a transaction. If certain casinos continue to take deposits knowing they will have deficulty paying winnings then that is fraud, pure and simple.

Again, the player would be committing fraud if they dispute charges above and amount they haven't been paid.

there has to be a legal remedy for players in extreme situations and I would consider waiting 3 months for payment to be extreme.

I know what you're saying.....you are splitting hairs.

When Bryan or anyone else in the online casino industry uses the term "chargeback", it covers ALL stages of the process, and specifically the initial submission of the "dispute"

I.E. If a player files a "dispute" with their bank regarding a online casino charge, it constitutes a "chargeback".

So we can call it different names, but it amounts to the same thing. As I said, try filing a "dispute" against one of you casinos and see how far you get convincing them it is not a "chargeback".

I know that merchants are charged an investigation fee regardless of the outcome at each stage of the process. It used to be in the order of about $75 that the merchant had to pay just for a customer lodging the dispute, and it goes up and up from there. It is also important to note that VISA/MC will cease dealing with processors, and processors will cease dealing with merchants, if the "chargeback/dispute" rate goes over a certain % of transactions. Hence, doing so to an online casino that it taking a long time to pay just makes it more likely that others will NEVER get paid.....so it is actually quite selfish.

The fact that you threatened chargebacks against Rushmore (your words btw) is actually grounds to have your membership deleted. You should probably count yourself lucky that Bryan and the other mods have given you a pass, as I have seen others given the boot over the years.

Chargebacks/disputes are irresponsible and end up hurting everyone, which is why they are frowned upon here and throughout the industry....but then you know all this.

 

[chuchu59]

Disputing a charge, in bank terms, means questioning a charge for various reasons, one being when the merchant fails to honor purchase or provide the service as stated on their website. A dispute allows the entity that submitted the charges ample time to respond by complying or providing the reason they are due the money. Only the Bank can determine whether a chargeback is appropriate.

This is a means of arbitrating a transaction. If certain casinos continue to take deposits knowing they will have deficulty paying winnings then that is fraud, pure and simple.

Again, the player would be committing fraud if they dispute charges above and amount they haven't been paid.

there has to be a legal remedy for players in extreme situations and I would consider waiting 3 months for payment to be extreme.

Whether they are disputes or chargebacks it makes no difference as you are essentially not paying for goods/services. Actually,I am not totally against chargebacks provided they are justified but in your case I find none of these elements. You are saying they continue taking deposits knowing fully well they have difficulties in paying winnings but then several months ago you knew that and deposited anyway so what gives?

I agree with you on one point though ie the player is committing fraud if they dispute charges above the amount they havent been paid. This is player fraud and I recall Babs was banned because of this.

 

[Nifty29]

Whether they are disputes or chargebacks it makes no difference as you are essentially not paying for goods/services. Actually,I am not totally against chargebacks provided they are justified but in your case I find none of these elements. You are saying they continue taking deposits knowing fully well they have difficulties in paying winnings but then several months ago you knew that and deposited anyway so what gives?

I agree with you on one point though ie the player is committing fraud if they dispute charges above the amount they havent been paid. This is player fraud and I recall Babs was banned because of this.

Ahh yes....Babs.

I was surprised to find she is employed at 3Dice in the chat room. Astonished in fact. I wonder what line she spun Enzo? In my experience, people who are dishonest in one thing are often dishonest in others.

 

[chuchu59]

Ahh yes....Babs.

I was surprised to find she is employed at 3Dice in the chat room. Astonished in fact. I wonder what line she spun Enzo? In my experience, people who are dishonest in one thing are often dishonest in others.

She may be dishonest but she has the ability to sweet-talk others into believing her. Maybe Enzo likes this trait.

 

[chayton]

Ahh yes....Babs.

I was surprised to find she is employed at 3Dice in the chat room. Astonished in fact. I wonder what line she spun Enzo? In my experience, people who are dishonest in one thing are often dishonest in others.

I don't think she's 'employed' per se, I think she's like the president of the fan club or something like that.

But back OT, I finally took the time to read this thread cover to cover. It's very sad to see this group come so low - I actually stopped playing during the first round of slow pay and non-response to mails etc that led to their being knocked from the accredited list. I occasionally play the big tourney but haven't deposited for years.

Interestingly though, last week I received a snail mail with a scratch card with a $250 free chip from Cherry Red. I was bored so decided to play it as fun money, I downloaded the casino and had to contact support to claim it, so I asked what the playthrough and wagering was. I don't even remember what they said the WR was, but they told me that the max cashout was $10K. lol...too good to be true. So I played like a nut and lost quickly, because I figured that even if I'd won, I probably wouldn't get paid anyhow, then I uninstalled again.

I'm not a business expert or anything, but it seems to me that if they're having cash flow problems, they should lay off throwing out the free chips and that big tourney. It seems like they're just digging themselves deeper in the hole.

 

[nikkidog]

Rushmore

i received an email from Tara yesterday. She said after speaking with upper management they have decided to resent my winnings which they said have been frozen at the BOA. The said because that I have been a loyal player at their casino and their sister casinos in the past ( which I was before all these problems with withdrawals happened ) that they will send my winnings of 725.00 The said to avoid any problems with a wire transfer that they could credit my winnings to my NS account or my banks debit card. I requested they send me a check,but they said they are no longer able to send checks. I told them that if they credited my NS card my NS account would be blocked and I am not sure if my banks debit card would accept it . They said that when it is sent to NS or banks debit card it is listed as affiliate program or network program, and that they would not know that it is winnings from a casino. I don't want any problems with my NS card because that is my only means of depositing, and I most certainly don't want any problems with my bank account. They say they want to pay me, but it seems it has to be on their terms, or I do not receive my winnings. Has anyone been paid by these 2 options, and did it go well.

 

[UriahHeep]

today I received thru neteller my money won on weekend freeroll of March 18th.
So that they took 11 days to pay me.
Still quite long time, but much better than in recent past times.

I am not saying now Rushmore is ok, I am just updating things since I know that some people is waiting for way a LONG time and I truly hope everyone can be happy the soonest. As long as other players (like me) are paid, I hope this can give them some more hope and confidence.

 

[LOOKAWAY]

I put in for two withdrawals on 25/03/12. One was approved today and paid today, the other has not been approved so far.

 

[Nifty29]

today I received thru neteller my money won on weekend freeroll of March 18th.
So that they took 11 days to pay me.
Still quite long time, but much better than in recent past times.

I am not saying now Rushmore is ok, I am just updating things since I know that some people is waiting for way a LONG time and I truly hope everyone can be happy the soonest. As long as other players (like me) are paid, I hope this can give them some more hope and confidence.

I put in for two withdrawals on 25/03/12. One was approved today and paid today, the other has not been approved so far.

The big difference.....you're both from outside the USA.

My information (which I passed on to footdr privately but was ignored) is that only US players, with the exception of a few very large winners, are being paid in around 10 days......awful and unacceptable, but quicker than LosePalace and Top Shame.

I guess it doesn't help US players a whole lot, but knowledge is power and you can never have too much of it.

 

[SlotsLover]

US players

Call me crazy or stupid (it's ok) but I would gladly play with a casino that pays within 10 days as a US player. it's when they don't pay at all, or pay out over months that I draw the line. I realize the challenges and as long as a casino is up front about it, I'm fine with it.

 

[footdr]

The big difference.....you're both from outside the USA.

My information (which I passed on to footdr privately but was ignored) is that only US players, with the exception of a few very large winners, are being paid in around 10 days......awful and unacceptable, but quicker than LosePalace and Top Shame.

I guess it doesn't help US players a whole lot, but knowledge is power and you can never have too much of it.

How do you know what I ignored? And, you think it is ok for non-U.S. players to support this casino? That is contrary to what you said about players supporting and playing at Rushmore Casinos. Isn't it? Just wondering.

 

[footdr]

Whether they are disputes or chargebacks it makes no difference as you are essentially not paying for goods/services. Actually,I am not totally against chargebacks provided they are justified but in your case I find none of these elements. You are saying they continue taking deposits knowing fully well they have difficulties in paying winnings but then several months ago you knew that and deposited anyway so what gives?

I agree with you on one point though ie the player is committing fraud if they dispute charges above the amount they havent been paid. This is player fraud and I recall Babs was banned because of this.

You are wrong, a dispute is not a chargeback, it is not a chargeback until the bank makes a determination either for the "merchant/processor" or the customer. It the bank rules in favor of the customer they "chargeback" the amount. Therefore, a customer disputes a charge when they have attempted to settle the dispute with the merchant and the dispute is not remedied to their satisfaction, then they can dispute it with the bank. In order to dispute with the bank you have to sign a form saying you attempted to correct the situation with the merchant without success.

therefore, a dispute is not a chargeback in legal terms.

 

[Nifty29]

How do you know what I ignored? And, you think it is ok for non-U.S. players to support this casino? That is contrary to what you said about players supporting and playing at Rushmore Casinos. Isn't it? Just wondering.

I consider not replying to a PM sent in good faith as "ignoring".

Who said I was saying non-US players should play at rushnomore? Just because I passed on some information in line with what a few people posted earlier? Well I guess that means you are saying that players should CHARGEBACK since you mentioned that in your post. Ummmm yeah. Right.


Re the chargebacks.....AGAIN you are splitting hairs. I'll type it slowly once again just for your benefit......AS FAR AS the online gambling industry and Bryan is concerned, DISPUTING a casino transaction is considered a CHARGEBACK. Whether it isn't CALLED that technically until the BANK actually reverses the funds, the word CHARGEBACK refers to the initiation of the PROCESS by the PLAYER.

So, whilst technically the terms may be different, EVERYONE knows what it means to CHARGEBACK.

The fact that you threatened a casino with a CHARGEBACK means that you violated the rules of this forum, and you should consider yourself fortunate that you didn't get a holiday as I've seen it happen to others....and rightly so.

FWIW, you DID receive the service you paid for I.e. the credits with which to gamble. Until the casino informs you that they REFUSE to pay your winnings, which they have not at any time to anyone in this thread, then initiating a chargeback is NOT proper recourse. Remember, there is nothing in the terms you agree to that states when you will be paid, so the casino is NOT violating any parts of the contract (until they refuse formally).

Afaic, you and others here deposited and played at rushless KNOWING they have a long history of long payment delays, so you are at least partially responsible for your own predicament.

 

[footdr]

I consider not replying to a PM sent in good faith as "ignoring".

Who said I was saying non-US players should play at rushnomore? Just because I passed on some information in line with what a few people posted earlier? Well I guess that means you are saying that players should CHARGEBACK since you mentioned that in your post. Ummmm yeah. Right.


Re the chargebacks.....AGAIN you are splitting hairs. I'll type it slowly once again just for your benefit......AS FAR AS the online gambling industry and Bryan is concerned, DISPUTING a casino transaction is considered a CHARGEBACK. Whether it isn't CALLED that technically until the BANK actually reverses the funds, the word CHARGEBACK refers to the initiation of the PROCESS by the PLAYER.

So, whilst technically the terms may be different, EVERYONE knows what it means to CHARGEBACK.

The fact that you threatened a casino with a CHARGEBACK means that you violated the rules of this forum, and you should consider yourself fortunate that you didn't get a holiday as I've seen it happen to others....and rightly so.

FWIW, you DID receive the service you paid for I.e. the credits with which to gamble. Until the casino informs you that they REFUSE to pay your winnings, which they have not at any time to anyone in this thread, then initiating a chargeback is NOT proper recourse. Remember, there is nothing in the terms you agree to that states when you will be paid, so the casino is NOT violating any parts of the contract (until they refuse formally).

Afaic, you and others here deposited and played at rushless KNOWING they have a long history of long payment delays, so you are at least partially responsible for your own predicament.

You are on my ignore list and I only see your posts when you "quote" me per Bryan.
That is why I didn't respond as Bryan has asked that I ignore you. I was surprised that your PM even reached me when you are on my ignore list.

and, Rushmore has always paid me within normal time frame up to this last incident starting with December 2011 withdrawals. And, receiving what you paid for includes being paid your winnings within the timeframe stated on the merchants website. Buying credits enables you a chance to win or lose, if you lose they keep your credits, if you win they owe you your winnings per their agreement and within the timeframe advertised.

Therefore, if you are not paid within that timeframe you have not received what was promised you when you purchased the credits. This is not splitting hairs, this is the legalize of depositing at their website.

 

[Nifty29]

You are on my ignore list and I only see your posts when you "quote" me per Bryan.
That is why I didn't respond as Bryan has asked that I ignore you. I was surprised that your PM even reached me when you are on my ignore list.

and, Rushmore has always paid me within normal time frame up to this last incident starting with December 2011 withdrawals. And, receiving what you paid for includes being paid your winnings within the timeframe stated on the merchants website. Buying credits enables you a chance to win or lose, if you lose they keep your credits, if you win they owe you your winnings per their agreement and within the timeframe advertised.

Therefore, if you are not paid within that timeframe you have not received what was promised you when you purchased the credits. This is not splitting hairs, this is the legalize of depositing at their website.

No....you are wrong.

The advertised payout timeframes are NOT part of the terms and conditions...they are an indication ONLY and there is nothing that says they HAVE to pay you in that timeframe. It does not form part of the agreement you make with the casino. It is also not a PROMISE....nowhere on the site will it state "We promise to pay you within......"

The splitting hairs comment has nothing to do with the legality (not sure what "the legalize" is..??)...it was about your insistence on stating that DISPUTING a transaction is not the same as a CHARGEBACK...when for all intensive purposes, it IS a chargeback. As I said before, "dispute" a transaction at one of your casinos, post about it here, and see what Bryan, the casino, or 99% of the forum says when you argue that it "isn't a chargeback, it's a dispute". You can call a duck a dolphin all day long, but it's still a duck.

 

[vinylweatherman]

You are wrong, a dispute is not a chargeback, it is not a chargeback until the bank makes a determination either for the "merchant/processor" or the customer. It the bank rules in favor of the customer they "chargeback" the amount. Therefore, a customer disputes a charge when they have attempted to settle the dispute with the merchant and the dispute is not remedied to their satisfaction, then they can dispute it with the bank. In order to dispute with the bank you have to sign a form saying you attempted to correct the situation with the merchant without success.

therefore, a dispute is not a chargeback in legal terms.

If Rushmore were not deliberately stalling you, and caved only when you scared them with the threat to dispute, they should terminate your account straight away as a "high risk" player. If you makde the threat once, you could do it again, and even follow through.

However, if Rushmore ARE deliberately stalling until the chance to dispute charges passes, they will not only allow you to keep your account, but will try to get you depositing again. It would be a reflection of the degree of risk they are prepared to take in order to keep the money coming in.

In order for a US player to dispute charges, they would surely have to tell the bank it's a casino, otherwise they would be lying, at least in part, in order to get the dispute going. This in itself would be fraud. If the bank found out the charges were for a a casino, they are likely to investigate all past charges for ANY casino, not just the disputed ones for Rushmore, and charge back the lot. This has already happened to one US member here.

As for the "frozen" funds at BOA. If they have really been frozen, they are NOT going to be returned, so when Rushmore say they will only reprocess when the original funds get returned, they are saying they are not going to pay as they no longer accept it is their responsibilty.

If it turns out that all these payments get reprocessed after months of stalling, then they were never really "frozen" in the first place, and the whole thing was just another stalling tactic.

Non US players have also reported payment delays, so this is NOT just an issue with processing to the US, it is a more general processing problem.

 

[P.V.]

The fact that you threatened a casino with a CHARGEBACK means that you violated the rules of this forum, and you should consider yourself fortunate that you didn't get a holiday as I've seen it happen to others....and rightly so.

A charge back sometimes would be a players only recourse. Doesn't mean they're a fraud but a last resort on their behalf.

It's up to the OC and players to hash this out as some might be good disputes and others fraudulent.

Heck if a player wins legitimately and a gaming site doesn't pay why not dispute the transactions?

The blame shouldn't be totally on the player, you're a fraud and the site has no obligation to the player?

This theory is debatable and foolish on a honest players behalf despite what you say.

Everyone isn't bad as you advocate.

 

[Nifty29]

A charge back sometimes would be a players only recourse. Doesn't mean they're a fraud but a last resort on their behalf.

It's up to the OC and players to hash this out as some might be good disputes and others fraudulent.

Heck if a player wins legitimately and a gaming site doesn't pay why not dispute the transactions?

The blame shouldn't be totally on the player, you're a fraud and the site has no obligation to the player?

This theory is debatable and foolish on a honest players behalf despite what you say.

Everyone isn't bad as you advocate.

Who said anyone was "bad"?. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I was stating the fact that chargebacks (disputes...ok footdr?) are unacceptable at casinomeister...no exceptions....and certainly unacceptable as far as operators are concerned. If a player charges back at a casino, they will go on several industry blacklists and be subject to confiscation of winnings and/or account closures at all the major operators. Members here, even some long time ones, have been banned for chargebacks regardless of the reason.

Footdr insists that its the same as dealing with a merchant from whom you have bought an item. If so, then players need to first request a refund of their deposit. Banks will most often not accept a dispute if you cannot provide evidence that you have requested your money back/deposit refunded. The casino could also provide proof that they ARE paying winnings to other players, and that your winnings will be paid in due course. If they aren't refusing to pay, there are no grounds for chargeback.

So, it isn't me you need to be sniping at.....I don't make the rules. I was just making sure that any members who might be thinking that the irresponsible recommendation to chargeback made by a senior member in this thread (who should know better) is a good idea, understand that it is grounds for termination of membership, and hence a very bad idea.

 

[P.V.]

Who said anyone was "bad"?. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Slight derail/

Calm down, the word bad was never used.

I'm simply stating the fact that a casino, or any other merchant is always right is ludicrous and if you believe this so be it.

Anyone using a debit, or credit card has a right to dispute any transaction if they feel they're being cheated.

Please don't try to vicissitude what I'm posting.

 

[chuchu59]

Slight derail/

Calm down, the word bad was never used.

I'm simply stating the fact that a casino, or any other merchant is always right is ludicrous and if you believe this so be it.

Anyone using a debit, or credit card has a right to dispute any transaction if they feel they're being cheated.

Please don't try to vicissitude what I'm posting.

In the gaming world disputing a transaction should only be used as a last resort. There are fraud players who will use this method to do chargebacks/dispute transactions. We will have to ask 'Are the feelings of being cheated genuine?' Say in the recent cases of CW players being paid slowly if some of them made a knee-jerk reaction and disputed their transactions everything will be thrown into disarray. I would say players have to take on some responsibility themselves. You can never underestimate the guile of certain players. With Rushmore, we have known for quite some time that slow-pay was the norm but if, in their experience, the casino finally paid how on earth can one come to a conclusion of initiating a chargeback. There will be players who place themselves in a no-lose situation ie initiating chargebacks at the slightest indication of slow pay. I t should be remembered that they chose to deposit knowing fully well they will be paid later than normal. Personally, I have no love for the Rushmore group but it pains me to see some players justify their threats of chargebacks when
1/ they had never experienced non-payment before and
2/ they knew fully well it would take them weeks, if not months, to get paid way before they deposited.

 

[Nifty29]

Slight derail/

Calm down, the word bad was never used.

I'm simply stating the fact that a casino, or any other merchant is always right is ludicrous and if you believe this so be it.

Anyone using a debit, or credit card has a right to dispute any transaction if they feel they're being cheated.

Please don't try to vicissitude what I'm posting.

Again.....I'll type it once more slowly....I wasn't talking about rights of consumers or the rights and wrongs of chargebacks. I'm saying that it is against the rules of this forum, and the rules at every casino online.

If you think it is wrong, then take it up with Bryan or the casino managers and owners. Why you're trying to make me the "big bad wolf" I do not know.

In the rushnomore case, I think it is very selfish to chargeback. Considering they are actually paying, albeit disgracefully slowly, it may mean that fellow players have to wait even longer as the processor might refuse further transactions....or at the extreme end, if enough players take the misguided advice of members here who have a history of not giving a toss about anyone else when it comes to casino issues, the casino may decide its cheaper to fold and disappear into the distance....and nobody would get anything.

If you want to know why CM has a zero tolerance policy towards chargebacks, then send him a PM and ask for clarification. I CAN tell you that, contrary to the opinion of some, it is NOT all about protecting the casinos. Bryan knows that many players who take this route don't understand the long term implications of their decision, and by taking a strong stance with harsh penalties, he is trying to prevent them placing themselves in a situation from which they probably never recover.

 

[The Dude]

I'm just getting ready to go on holiday, but I feel I need to point out our policies on chargebacks, etc.

1.10 - Members who commit player fraud (chargebacks, fake accounts, gnoming, multiple accounts, etc.) will be banned from the forum.

....

1.12 - Postings that incite fraudulent player activity are not welcome and will probably be deleted. Members who encourage fraud will probably be kicked to the curb.

There are reasons for these policies - please understand that we take this very seriously. Thanks!

It's all here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/forum-rules/

Now I'm shutting the computer off - see you in a couple of weeks

 

[rainmaker]

I'm just getting ready to go on holiday, but I feel I need to point out our policies on chargebacks, etc.

Again You have just come home from your last vacation dude

 

[vinylweatherman]

A charge back sometimes would be a players only recourse. Doesn't mean they're a fraud but a last resort on their behalf.

It's up to the OC and players to hash this out as some might be good disputes and others fraudulent.

Heck if a player wins legitimately and a gaming site doesn't pay why not dispute the transactions?

The blame shouldn't be totally on the player, you're a fraud and the site has no obligation to the player?

This theory is debatable and foolish on a honest players behalf despite what you say.

Everyone isn't bad as you advocate.

It should be considered a "last resort" in the same way that dropping a nuclear bomb is the "last resort" when having "diplomatic problems" with another country. The problem is not so much the act itself, but the consequences of the "fallout".

Casinos almost always refund the deposits when there is a dispute, and part of this is that they know that by doing so, the player cannot initiate a chargeback using legitimate arguments. Players who DO charge back will have little further use for their CM membership in any case, as they are likely to find themselves on a processor blacklist, and unable to play anywhere again.

Despite the worrying signs, Rushmore always seem to survive and make the payments, even though it takes months in some cases. The "fairness" aspect is that if a small number of players decide to charge back as a short cut, it could bring down the whole system, and leave many patient players unpaid if it results in the final collapse of Rushmore.

NO players should be making meaningful deposits here in any case, as there is a continuing high risk that each payment crisis will be the "big one" that brings them down and leaves players unpaid.

In the case of the US, the card payments only go through because they are miscoded, and use fake identifiers. A legitimate argument to a US provider for a recovery would be impossible, and it is likely that the player making the chargeback will find they wish they hadn't when the bank starts investigating them, and freezing even their non gambling activities. The IRS may even get involved if the sums are large enough.

The industry also has a part to play, and should ensure that players have proper access to independent dispute resolution procedures. A player that feels they have been scammed, and then finds that the casino refuses to allow an independent mediation, is likely to start looking at "last resort" solutions as their "only resort". CDS is seen as a "fake" process because it is not properly independent, being run by RTG, and therefore biased towards the operators. Even when CDS rules in favour of a player, the operator is free to ignore the ruling without risk of repercussions.

Operators expose themselves to such risks by accepting cards and other deposit vehicles that are vulnerable to customer chargebacks, some even PUNISH players for choosing a safer alternative like Neteller where a chargeback is not allowed. Rushmore is one such casino that punishes the use of eWallets, yet significantly rewards the use of credit and debit cards. They therefore have a higher than usual exposure to chargebacks than casinos that accept cards, but make it clear that they prefer players to use one of the eWallet alternatives.

 

[P.V.]

It should be considered a "last resort" in the same way that dropping a nuclear bomb is the "last resort" when having "diplomatic problems" with another country. The problem is not so much the act itself, but the consequences of the "fallout".

Thanks for pointing that out in my post VWM, "Last Resort".

 

[Nifty29]

I'm just getting ready to go on holiday, but I feel I need to point out our policies on chargebacks, etc.

1.10 - Members who commit player fraud (chargebacks, fake accounts, gnoming, multiple accounts, etc.) will be banned from the forum.

....

1.12 - Postings that incite fraudulent player activity are not welcome and will probably be deleted. Members who encourage fraud will probably be kicked to the curb.

There are reasons for these policies - please understand that we take this very seriously. Thanks!

It's all here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/forum-rules/

Now I'm shutting the computer off - see you in a couple of weeks

Footdr?

Care to comment?

 

[Tirilej]

Footdr?

Care to comment?

Nifty, she did put you on her ignorelist so she might not see your question.
Maybe that should be respected...or she will at least see it now so she can chose to respond, or not