Rushmore Casino Experiences

[RobWin]

Given that NO RTG CASINO has said anything other than that they DON'T change the games, despite being able to, ANY evidence to the contrary involving a comparison of REPUTABLE RTG casinos will at least prove that such statements cannot be relied upon to be true. If a ROGUE had different reels from a reputable one, the assumption would be that it was the ROGUE that had lowered the payouts.

I have seen different payouts between different RTG casinos on the CARD games though, but at least this is obvious to the player through the paytables, and they can play elsewhere if they don't like it.

The problem is though that the Reputable ones have also lower or changed their payouts this year or something else really fishy has been going on with this software all this year !!

 

[DogBoy001]

Well worth investigating. It could prove or disprove some of the "RTG is rigged" rumours.

It will take "forever" because they use very long strips at RTG, but IF it can be shown the slots do indeed differ between different RTG casinos, we have our "smoking gun" that proves operators DO lower the payouts when we feel that a particular RTG slot is "unduly tight at XXXX unlike YYYYYY where........".

Well that's assuming the following is actually correct:

ALSO......payout on Jackpot Pinatas worse I have EVER experienced anywhere. Seems to be only one(1) yellow dog scatter on reel five; unlike Inetbet or CW where there is ALWAYS two that come up relatively close together along with green pinata. Not at Rushmore, I wagered hundreds without one bonus round

And nope, it isn't.
Jackpot Pinatas does not have (in any variation) 2 yellow dogs (scatter) on reel 5.

Symbol: Reel 1 Reel 2 Reel 3 Reel 4 Reel 5
Donkey Pinata 2 1 1 1 1
Dog Pinata 1 1 1 2 1
Bull Pinata 2 2 1 1 1

And several additions to reels 1 and 2 during free games.

*insert sigh here*

As I have attempted to point out before, a lot of the reason people think that there are more or less symbols appearing during the reel spin than actually exist in the reel strip order comes back to the way video slots function.
By starting at a fixed location (the result of the previous spin) and then having to end up at a designated reel stop location based on the result of the RNG, there comes a point where a "switch" occurs between the visible start spin from location (A) to the end spin that will lead to location (B).

If a slot has 50 stops one does not cycle through all 50 to get to the random stop location. One starts the spin, then at some point move to a section of the reel strip leading up to the point that will be the end stop location.

On occasion players will see a special symbol flashing by that is in the section of the reel strip near the start location, and will then see that same symbol recur when the reels stop. This does not mean that there are necessarily 2 of the symbol on the reel (though there very well may be in many cases).

For the record, I cannot think of one game released by RTG that has a dramatic difference in average feature hit rates irrespective of the RTP in use. RTP changes are almost always made using reel strip or feature pick probability changes rather than changing something as fundamental as the feature hit rates.

Woof

 

[SnowKatt]

My Rushmore experience

Well, I tried them back about a month ago, when I first started nosing around here again and found out they were accredited, and accepted U.S. players from all states.

Depositing was difficult, and I was limited to wiring my deposits, which makes me nervous anyway because there's no real proof of anything.

I'm strictly a slots player. The slots were in fact tighter than other RTG's I've played in. The bonuses were tough to hit, and produced small wins. At times I was wagering $50-75.00, watching my bank roll dwindle down, to finally get a bonus and have it give me $5-10.00.

Also, it was the only casino I've ever played in, where I actually got $0.00 on a bonus round more than once.

I experimented for awhile, and it didn't seem to matter how much or how little I wagered, the result was the same.

Like the majority of others, the RJ's being allowed to accumulate to such extremes makes me nervous. I like to see RJ's reaching $5-8k at a modest pace, then clearing out to 1000 in a modest time frame. It gives me a comfortable assumption that there's an actual chance at winning one, if I see players winning them more often.

Rushmore did tend to have disconnect issues more often than other RTG's I've played.

Customer Service seemed alright. Nothing sticks out in my mind as far as lude behavior, and my questions were generally answered professionally.

The lack of a wager calculator is inconvenient. The mainstreet casino's don't have them either. But so far I've never had an issue when it came to just checking in once in awhile to ask.

I looked up some reviews at other sites online, and one page (ugh- I'll have to remember which one it was now, so I can share it) had Rushmore at the top of the list on their front page, listed as ''newest''. Unfortunately, I had to do a little bit of a when the other two listed with it, boasting their reputation were Cirrus and one other from the infamous rouges.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything or making any assumptions on that what-so-ever. It just struck me as odd.

So, I gave Rushmore a shot. My experience wasn't that great. I probably won't return.

SnowKatt ~

 

[Rusty]

Well that's assuming the following is actually correct:



And nope, it isn't.
Jackpot Pinatas does not have (in any variation) 2 yellow dogs (scatter) on reel 5.

Symbol: Reel 1 Reel 2 Reel 3 Reel 4 Reel 5
Donkey Pinata 2 1 1 1 1
Dog Pinata 1 1 1 2 1
Bull Pinata 2 2 1 1 1

And several additions to reels 1 and 2 during free games.

*insert sigh here*

As I have attempted to point out before, a lot of the reason people think that there are more or less symbols appearing during the reel spin than actually exist in the reel strip order comes back to the way video slots function.
By starting at a fixed location (the result of the previous spin) and then having to end up at a designated reel stop location based on the result of the RNG, there comes a point where a "switch" occurs between the visible start spin from location (A) to the end spin that will lead to location (B).

If a slot has 50 stops one does not cycle through all 50 to get to the random stop location. One starts the spin, then at some point move to a section of the reel strip leading up to the point that will be the end stop location.

On occasion players will see a special symbol flashing by that is in the section of the reel strip near the start location, and will then see that same symbol recur when the reels stop. This does not mean that there are necessarily 2 of the symbol on the reel (though there very well may be in many cases).

For the record, I cannot think of one game released by RTG that has a dramatic difference in average feature hit rates irrespective of the RTP in use. RTP changes are almost always made using reel strip or feature pick probability changes rather than changing something as fundamental as the feature hit rates.

Woof

There is still no reasonalbe explanation as to why these animation glitches appear at the start of a spin and always during losing streaks, furthermore I can clone an RTG slot and elliminate any glitches and have smooth fast spins.
I am an amateur so if I can do it what is the problem?

Insert Sigh here.

The only time I would accept this splicing together of animations as remotely neccesary would be in a slot with very lon reels indeed ie MG Cashapillar.

The reason for these glitches I believe is precisely because symbols are being added changed on the reel layouts.

RTP changes are almost always made using reel strip or feature pick probability changes rather than changing something as fundamental as the feature hit rates

Almost always? That is an odd expression DogBoy.
So we can take it there are times the feature hit rates are changed?
Anyway it is unimportant as you have already stated that reel strip changes are used to effect RTP and I know from experience this includes scatter symbols so obviously feature hit rates can and are affected by such changes.

The point is that the software uses weighting which can be changed on the fly to alter payouts, whether that be 97% or 65%, even though it retains a random element.
MG, Rival all other software is no different they just use different methods.
What we play online are glorified AWP machines.

 

[babs7262]

So
There are 31 pages and I cant decipher what the majority vote in this casino is. Has anyone read all of them and have an idea if most like them or not?

 

[Rusty]

So
There are 31 pages and I cant decipher what the majority vote in this casino is. Has anyone read all of them and have an idea if most like them or not?

That depends.

If you are happy with Clubworld and/or inetbet then you will be happy with Rushmore.
Especially if you are UK and have MB so withdrawls can be flushed.

If you are looking for something different to other RTG Casinos then you will be dissapointed.

 

[DogBoy001]

There is still no reasonalbe explanation as to why these animation glitches appear at the start of a spin and always during losing streaks, furthermore I can clone an RTG slot and elliminate any glitches and have smooth fast spins.
I am an amateur so if I can do it what is the problem?

Insert Sigh here.

The only time I would accept this splicing together of animations as remotely neccesary would be in a slot with very lon reels indeed ie MG Cashapillar.

The reason for these glitches I believe is precisely because symbols are being added changed on the reel layouts.

Rusty, you're using flogic (flawed logic) to try to support your arguments.

Merely because it's possible to produce a better spin using modern software in a localised environment as compared to a system architecture now 10 years old does not mean that the older system is corrupt.

You state that because you see no reason for animation of this type it must be adding symbols dynamically.

The system does not function in that fashion.

RTP changes are almost always made using reel strip or feature pick probability changes rather than changing something as fundamental as the feature hit rates

Almost always? That is an odd expression DogBoy.
So we can take it there are times the feature hit rates are changed?

Anyway it is unimportant as you have already stated that reel strip changes are used to effect RTP and I know from experience this includes scatter symbols so obviously feature hit rates can and are affected by such changes.

The point is that the software uses weighting which can be changed on the fly to alter payouts, whether that be 97% or 65%, even though it retains a random element.
MG, Rival all other software is no different they just use different methods.
What we play online are glorified AWP machines.

Truly masterful flogic.

Yes, feature hit rates may change between one RTP and another.
For instance, the first variant we typically produce is the 95%.

When producing the 97.5% we start with the 95% and adjust, sometimes by reducing a reel strip. e.g.: A reel may be changed from 50 to 49 symbols, the resulting slightly higher trigger and pay combination probabilities yielding the higher average RTP.

Again, none of this occurs dynamically.
The reel strips are determined during the creation of the mathematical variants and the coding of the games does not have any dynamic element to it (by dynamic I mean any "on the fly" checks and balances that would result in adjustments being made to the maths or probabilities based on game play).

I'm well aware of how AWP's work, I've designed many and still design them when our UK market-focused clients request them.
I am intimately familiar with RTG software and it simply does not function in this fashion.
If it did we would be producing vastly different assets for delivery, and similarly the integration process between RTG and ourselves would be completely different.

Conspiracy theories are very easy to create and often very difficult to disprove.

Woof

 

[RobWin]

Rusty, you're using flogic (flawed logic) to try to support your arguments.

Merely because it's possible to produce a better spin using modern software in a localised environment as compared to a system architecture now 10 years old does not mean that the older system is corrupt.

You state that because you see no reason for animation of this type it must be adding symbols dynamically.

The system does not function in that fashion.



Truly masterful flogic.

Yes, feature hit rates may change between one RTP and another.
For instance, the first variant we typically produce is the 95%.

When producing the 97.5% we start with the 95% and adjust, sometimes by reducing a reel strip. e.g.: A reel may be changed from 50 to 49 symbols, the resulting slightly higher trigger and pay combination probabilities yielding the higher average RTP.

Again, none of this occurs dynamically.
The reel strips are determined during the creation of the mathematical variants and the coding of the games does not have any dynamic element to it (by dynamic I mean any "on the fly" checks and balances that would result in adjustments being made to the maths or probabilities based on game play).

I'm well aware of how AWP's work, I've designed many and still design them when our UK market-focused clients request them.
I am intimately familiar with RTG software and it simply does not function in this fashion.
If it did we would be producing vastly different assets for delivery, and similarly the integration process between RTG and ourselves would be completely different.

Conspiracy theories are very easy to create and often very difficult to disprove.

Woof

So then please explain to all of us DogBoy001 how 60% of us who voted "yes" in that RTG POLL are wrong and all these crappy payouts and playtime and RTP this year at all the RTG casinos is just simply a figment of our imagination as compared to our play there over the previous years ?? If you do take me up on this challenge please try and not spin it...just the facts please !!

 

[DogBoy001]

So then please explain to all of us DogBoy001 how 60% of us who voted "yes" in that RTG POLL are wrong and all these crappy payouts and playtime and RTP this year at all the RTG casinos is just simply a figment of our imagination as compared to our play there over the previous years ?? If you do take me up on this challenge please try and not spin it...just the facts please !!

Heya

My objective here is to clarify how the software functions (specifically that it is a truly random system).
It is entirely possible that some operators have decided to make use of RTP variants under the maximum 97.5% version, however that's an operator discussion and outside my scope.

And while some operators may have shifted down there's definitely quite a few that haven't.
Since even the lowest variant available to operators is not significantly lower than the highest I would suggest that players more often remember the runs without wins and features than the occasion where they hit more frequently.

Feature hit rates are sometimes effected by the RTP variant being used, but the range is quite small.
For example, the range on Achilles is an overall 1 in 129 versus 1 in 134 (taking into account either feature hitting).

Hope it helps

Woof

 

[Rusty]

Rusty, you're using flogic (flawed logic) to try to support your arguments.

Merely because it's possible to produce a better spin using modern software in a localised environment as compared to a system architecture now 10 years old does not mean that the older system is corrupt.

You state that because you see no reason for animation of this type it must be adding symbols dynamically.

The system does not function in that fashion.



Truly masterful flogic.

Yes, feature hit rates may change between one RTP and another.
For instance, the first variant we typically produce is the 95%.

When producing the 97.5% we start with the 95% and adjust, sometimes by reducing a reel strip. e.g.: A reel may be changed from 50 to 49 symbols, the resulting slightly higher trigger and pay combination probabilities yielding the higher average RTP.

Again, none of this occurs dynamically.
The reel strips are determined during the creation of the mathematical variants and the coding of the games does not have any dynamic element to it (by dynamic I mean any "on the fly" checks and balances that would result in adjustments being made to the maths or probabilities based on game play).

I'm well aware of how AWP's work, I've designed many and still design them when our UK market-focused clients request them.
I am intimately familiar with RTG software and it simply does not function in this fashion.
If it did we would be producing vastly different assets for delivery, and similarly the integration process between RTG and ourselves would be completely different.

Conspiracy theories are very easy to create and often very difficult to disprove.

Woof

Is that the same Flogic you are using when you say the software is 10 Years old so therefore can not be corrupt?
Now that is masterful something.

I stated there has still been no reasonable explanation for animation glitches.
Your answer seems to be because the software is old.

You say my logic is flawed but is that sum of your argument?

Have RTG ever heard of updates?
Are they still using the 10 Year old architecture to make the new games they release that play the same?
What is this architecture anyway?

Could you tell me why RTG chose to have 3 payout rates at start up and why did they stop there?
Why not have 10 or 20?
You say the symbols are only added/removed by RTG before delivery to a operator.
If what you say were true that would mean that different RTG Casinos would have different reel strips on the same slot permanently.
That is not the case.
No doubt they all chose the 97% variant of the software

You say that payouts are not changed through dynamic weighting when all the evidence says otherwise.

I think I remember you saying you have never played at a RTG Casino as a customer, perhaps if you did you would be in a better possition to evaluate the arguments.
Perhaps you are simply unaware of how the software can be and is being manipulated?

That on the face of it does appear more likely than a multitude of intelligent impartial people being wrong and you being right.
Or is that a little too much flogic for you?

What conspiracy theory are you talking of anyway?

The one that RTG slots are unweighted and Casinos do not alter RTP?

I agree that has been difficult to disprove but we are getting there.
Rrrruff.

 

[DogBoy001]

Could you tell me why RTG chose to have 3 payout rates at start up and why did they stop there?
Why not have 10 or 20?
You say the symbols are only added/removed by RTG before delivery to a operator.
If what you say were true that would mean that different RTG Casinos would have different reel strips on the same slot permanently.
That is not the case.

Sweeping statments based on theory rather than fact are rarely useful.

It's been stated before that operators can select one of 3 RTP settings.
That is not to say that having chosen a particular RTP that they are forever more stuck with that.
They can request a change to a different setting, which is then carried out by RTG. There is no direct access by the operator to the settings.

One does not need 10 nor 20 RTP's, especially when the range between the highest and lowest is quite small, such as 5%.

Even in bricks & mortar casinos, there are typically only 5 or 6 RTP settings offered to the operator, however in this case it often ranges within a 10% band (and you can bet that most B&M casinos never choose the higher settings).
Why stop at 3? Because that's all that's needed.

You say that payouts are not changed through dynamic weighting when all the evidence says otherwise.

Methinks there's a misunderstanding between evidence versus suspicion.

I think I remember you saying you have never played at a RTG Casino as a customer, perhaps if you did you would be in a better possition to evaluate the arguments.
Perhaps you are simply unaware of how the software can be and is being manipulated?

Firstly, as a player the limited number of spins that I would see (even if it were in the tens of thousands) is hardly a solid basis for determining whether a slot is meeting RTP expectations.

I'm sure you know how great the confidence range is over relatively small numbers of spins.
We run enormous spin tests on all our games to ensure mathematical validity.

Secondly, as we're heavily involved in the development we know exactly how the software functions, and test the games before go live as well as in theory.

Thirdly, yes, I have played on live RTG casinos, albeit not to the extent that some have.

That on the face of it does appear more likely than a multitude of intelligent impartial people being wrong and you being right.

Lol, methinks that anyone that plays a game for money and bears the associated risk/reward is rarely impartial to the outcome.

Mate, I've worked for, deal with or have dealt with a multitude of companies in this business. Some have proven to be shonky, RTG isn't one of them.

www.dynamitegames.com.au

Woof

 

[winbig]

Some have proven to be shonky, RTG isn't one of them.

Woof

Really? How would you explain the fact that RTG lets operators screw over players time and time again, but yet won't yank their license? Or that they haven't had a dispute resolution process in place for well over a year now? If this was a MG casino/group we were talking about, these clip joints would be out of business.

 

[DogBoy001]

Really? How would you explain the fact that RTG lets operators screw over players time and time again, but yet won't yank their license? Or that they haven't had a dispute resolution process in place for well over a year now? If this was a MG casino/group we were talking about, these clip joints would be out of business.

Operator issues aren't a subject I'm about to get in to.

Woof

 

[RobWin]

Sweeping statments based on theory rather than fact are rarely useful.

It's been stated before that operators can select one of 3 RTP settings.
That is not to say that having chosen a particular RTP that they are forever more stuck with that.
They can request a change to a different setting, which is then carried out by RTG. There is no direct access by the operator to the settings.

One does not need 10 nor 20 RTP's, especially when the range between the highest and lowest is quite small, such as 5%.

Even in bricks & mortar casinos, there are typically only 5 or 6 RTP settings offered to the operator, however in this case it often ranges within a 10% band (and you can bet that most B&M casinos never choose the higher settings).
Why stop at 3? Because that's all that's needed.




Methinks there's a misunderstanding between evidence versus suspicion.



Firstly, as a player the limited number of spins that I would see (even if it were in the tens of thousands) is hardly a solid basis for determining whether a slot is meeting RTP expectations.

I'm sure you know how great the confidence range is over relatively small numbers of spins.
We run enormous spin tests on all our games to ensure mathematical validity.

Secondly, as we're heavily involved in the development we know exactly how the software functions, and test the games before go live as well as in theory.

Thirdly, yes, I have played on live RTG casinos, albeit not to the extent that some have.




Lol, methinks that anyone that plays a game for money and bears the associated risk/reward is rarely impartial to the outcome.

Mate, I've worked for, deal with or have dealt with a multitude of companies in this business. Some have proven to be shonky, RTG isn't one of them.

www.dynamitegames.com.au

Woof

LOL...is this Lojo...

 

[winbig]

Operator issues aren't a subject I'm about to get in to.

Woof

I'm not asking you to. Just wanted to keep the balance.

edit: buuut, you did claim, as a whole, that RTG isn't "shady"....we all know that they are. Maybe the games are fair, but they certainly are not.

 

[DogBoy001]

LOL...is this Lojo...

Now I had to google "Lojo" and "methinks" to find out what the reference was...fortunately it brought up a link to Casinomeister

Forgive my classical upbringing, I'll limit my methinking

Woof

 

[RobWin]

Now I had to google "Lojo" and "methinks" to find out what the reference was...fortunately it brought up a link to Casinomeister

Forgive my classical upbringing, I'll limit my methinking

Woof

 

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
Could you tell me why RTG chose to have 3 payout rates at start up and why did they stop there?
Why not have 10 or 20?
You say the symbols are only added/removed by RTG before delivery to a operator.
If what you say were true that would mean that different RTG Casinos would have different reel strips on the same slot permanently.
That is not the case.
Sweeping statments based on theory rather than fact are rarely useful.

What?
I was using your own statements, not that I have any faith in them.
There is no theory here.
Are you saying you are making sweeping statements?

The only thing you disagree with is that the Casinos have different reel strips on the same slot permanently.

Ok so they can change the payouts even by your own admission as often as they wish without informing the players.
This the same company that is not shoddy right?

Why don't you tell us all which Casinos have what payback currently and how often they are changed and if we will be advised of any changes in the future?
I am sure players would like and indeed have a right to know.

You state that a reel strip may be reduced in size (and no doubt increased) to effect frequency of feature triggers.
What symbol is removed and from which reel? (Cleo or Achilles as examples)

Since the freespins (IF THEY WERE INDEPENDENT RESULTS) would be quite high variance in their possible returns this would seem to be the most unlikely way to manipulate RTP.
Why not just replace one symbol with another that would give far tighter control?
Either you are full of it and/or the freespins are not independent random results so can be calculated in more precisely.
You never did give an explantion of why the freespin rounds were sent in batches did you?
I suppose you can only use that "10 Year architecture" every so often

Which leads me to ask you;
Since the reel animation is obviously quick enough to make a complete cycle without the need to splice in another animation I don't accept your explanation (10 Year old architecture) for the glitches.

More importantly these glitches occur at the start of animations and often reset the animation further back which actually contradicts your argument completely.
Also why does these resets only occur in batches of spins?
They should occur all the time if what you say is true.

Why are there periods where the reels speed up dramatically and the resets become much more frequent?
Typically in these periods Two scatters will appear often and the reel animations for the 3rd scatter always restet.

Here is an easy one for you;
How are retriggers calculated?
Please say they are naturally occurring

Another one;
How is it RTG Casinos are the only ones that can offer huge free chips and enormous match bonuses?

You want us to believe that RTG are fair and honest and yet it is obvious they lack integrity , even morality, when they allow rogue operators to rip off their customers and turn their backs on them.
Of course RTG still get their sack of Gold from the Op so they don't give a damn, and you say this is not a shoddy company?

Obviously you have different standards to the rest of us Dogboy, you even think it acceptable for the operator to alter RTP without informing the player.

Well good luck to you on convincing people RTG software is fair, did they supply you with a magic wand to go with the ABC of denial?

Rrrruff

 

[kakata]

well I havent read all the thread.
Ive just asked for my stats....I will receive it.(maiby)
What I can say is, after the problem I had with JADE, i did go back and made several deposits actually a lot of deposits.....
I played slots and Keno.
What I can tell you guys is that my keno return to player was .....maybe 40 % ...just maybe.
Im talking about weeks upon weeks of playing.....thousands and thousands and thousands of spins.....the best I got was 3 times(in days) 7 out of 10 wich pays 37.50.....at 25cents spin.....ACCREDITED??????
Bryan you need to have look at it and review something.
Slots....oh yes I did play a lot....still...never got far from my deposits+bonus.....and when I was next to my wagering requirements......the DEATH came.....
Do we still need to be treated as IDIOTS?
This guys are just robbing us....and Im kind of tired I dont know about my fellow whom still believe in fairy tails.
Before I explode and get Banned for ever....could you please have look at it?
Rushmore you owe me ....after the problem we had....all of my deposits....cause after that problem....you really robbed my money.ROBBED!!!!
Jade Ill save the best for you as final show. If not here....somewhere else.
Thanks
kakata

 

[RobWin]

well I havent read all the thread.
Ive just asked for my stats....I will receive it.(maiby)
What I can say is, after the problem I had with JADE, i did go back and made several deposits actually a lot of deposits.....
I played slots and Keno.
What I can tell you guys is that my keno return to player was .....maybe 40 % ...just maybe.
Im talking about weeks upon weeks of playing.....thousands and thousands and thousands of spins.....the best I got was 3 times(in days) 7 out of 10 wich pays 37.50.....at 25cents spin.....ACCREDITED??????
Bryan you need to have look at it and review something.
Slots....oh yes I did play a lot....still...never got far from my deposits+bonus.....and when I was next to my wagering requirements......the DEATH came.....
Do we still need to be treated as IDIOTS?
This guys are just robbing us....and Im kind of tired I dont know about my fellow whom still believe in fairy tails.
Before I explode and get Banned for ever....could you please have look at it?
Rushmore you owe me ....after the problem we had....all of my deposits....cause after that problem....you really robbed my money.ROBBED!!!!
Jade Ill save the best for you as final show. If not here....somewhere else.
Thanks
kakata

Hang in there Kakata... Don't go ballistic yet..

 

[DogBoy001]

Ok so they can change the payouts even by your own admission as often as they wish without informing the players.
This the same company that is not shoddy right?

Rusty, you seem to be just an antagonist that selectively chooses what they will read, then pick out the points that try to match their argument and twist to suit.

I've stated that there are 3 very close RTP settings that an operator may elect to use, which can be changed, but not on the fly. This is done by RTG, and does involve a time delay of greater than 24 hours. Typically an operator may stick with the same setting for months on end...since once again I'll point out that the RTP variants available are close.

And you're telling me that having several RTP settings makes software shonky? So by that rationale all B&M casinos that can change settings generally once a month if they say desire are shonky? And no, B&M casinos also do not advertise the change.
Don't give up your day job.

Why don't you tell us all which Casinos have what payback currently and how often they are changed and if we will be advised of any changes in the future?
I am sure players would like and indeed have a right to know.

That's up to the operator.
Some might like to advertise such, some might not.
I'm here to comment on the software and refute some of the misinformation that is being spouted, not comment on operators.

You state that a reel strip may be reduced in size (and no doubt increased) to effect frequency of feature triggers.
What symbol is removed and from which reel? (Cleo or Achilles as examples)

Since the freespins (IF THEY WERE INDEPENDENT RESULTS) would be quite high variance in their possible returns this would seem to be the most unlikely way to manipulate RTP.

What? A most unlikely way to manipulate RTP?
Actually it's a very useful way that enables higher RTP settings to have a slightly better trigger chance, which is not unlikely, it's an industry norm.

Why not just replace one symbol with another that would give far tighter control?

Tighter control?
To have an average random chance of 1 in 129, for example, versus 1 in 134 has nothing to do with control.
Why keep the higher RTP setting at 1 in 134 and replace a lower symbol with a higher one? The impact is less pronounced than by reducing the average trigger chance.
Replacing is another industry norm, but less effective.

Either you are full of it and/or the freespins are not independent random results so can be calculated in more precisely.

See here's one of those "sweeping statements" I refered to.
Either everything fits into the erroneous mental picture you have of the way things should work, or it must be rigged and we're all ful of crap!

I'm not here to convince you Rusty, I'm here to counter rubbish statements like that one.

You never did give an explantion of why the freespin rounds were sent in batches did you?
I suppose you can only use that "10 Year architecture" every so often

Once again, if it doesn't fit the way you would do it, it must be rigged, right?
As stated in the previous Fruit Fenzy discourse, the "request all free game results in one go" was only on the first game to go live that we supplied (Cleopatra's Gold).
The resulting delay in communication produced a noticeable delay, which is why it was changed from requesting all free game results at the time of trigger to requesting one at a time.

And it's the same as requesting any random result from any spin, 5 random stop locations are requested (with equal chance to stop on any given position of each reel), and then win evaluation occurs.

Which leads me to ask you;
Since the reel animation is obviously quick enough to make a complete cycle without the need to splice in another animation I don't accept your explanation (10 Year old architecture) for the glitches.

So in one breath you say that cutting from one location to another mid-spin is fine for Cashapillar and then you turn and so that RTG shouldn't be using it? Instead RTG should cycle through 50, 60, 100? stop locations each and every spin? Lol.

And what happens if you have different length reel strips? So 30 on one and 80 on another? Does this mean, since according to you we should cycle through all stop locations, one spins for almost 3 times longer? Lol

Maybe we should just use the mega blur that some other providers use so you can't get any reel anticipation?

More importantly these glitches occur at the start of animations and often reset the animation further back which actually contradicts your argument completely.
Also why does these resets only occur in batches of spins?
They should occur all the time if what you say is true.

No, actually, splicing does not occur at the start of the spin, otherwise you'd have things occurring like in NG Tomb Raider II, with the switch from base game reels to completely different free game reels from the trigger event.

On the RTG games the spin starts and at least 3 stops on the existing location are displayed before any switch to the reel area leading up to its new stop location.
Not sure what you mean by "only occur in batches of spins"?

Why are there periods where the reels speed up dramatically and the resets become much more frequent?
Typically in these periods Two scatters will appear often and the reel animations for the 3rd scatter always restet.

Any reel speed changes would be communication issues. There are no in-built calls for speed changes...why would they even be useful? If the system was dodgy as you say it is, why would a reel speed decrease or increase be required? It would serve no purpose, it's not a mechanical device, one could keep the video speed constant and have the same result.

Animations never "reset"...it's not a system where the reels stop and then the symbols suddenly vanish.
The switch between start reel location and lead up to end reel location occurs mid point.

Here is an easy one for you;
How are retriggers calculated?
Please say they are naturally occurring

That's correct.
you should know how the maths work, it's simply a probability of something occurring and the average prize that will result from that yielding the contribution towards RTP.

So in the base game any prize has a certain chance of occurring (number of combinations/total combinations). The prize value multiplied by this probability yields its contribution towards RTP.
e.g.: A 5000 prize with 10 combinations out of 5,000,000 total combinations would contribute 1% of the game's total RTP.

Features are just another part of this calculation.
What is the chance of the trigger occurring? What is the average prize that they player will win from it? (for instance in free games the average RTP using free game reels multiplied out by the average total number of free games)
Retriggers are calculated within this framework and contribute to increasing the average total number of free games.

All results are random.

Another one;
How is it RTG Casinos are the only ones that can offer huge free chips and enormous match bonuses?

Well now you're getting in to operator issues.
And I'm fairly sure that a lot of RTG operators do not offer this facility.

You want us to believe that RTG are fair and honest and yet it is obvious they lack integrity , even morality, when they allow rogue operators to rip off their customers and turn their backs on them.
Of course RTG still get their sack of Gold from the Op so they don't give a damn, and you say this is not a shoddy company?

Obviously you have different standards to the rest of us Dogboy, you even think it acceptable for the operator to alter RTP without informing the player.

Well good luck to you on convincing people RTG software is fair, did they supply you with a magic wand to go with the ABC of denial?

Rrrruff

You're confusing operator issues once again with software issues.
I'm aware that you have issues with oversight and with some operators, that's not for me to comment on.

What is for me to comment on is the constant spouting about an unfair system, and in that you're wrong Rusty

Woof

 

[Rusty]

DogBoy, you seem to be just an antagonist that selectively chooses what they will read, then pick out the points that try to match their argument and twist to suit.

That applies to you so much better DogBoy.

The really funny thing is that after stating that you then go on to confirm what I have just stated
No I don't think it is Stonky that they can change RTP on a whim and the player not know I think it is a disgrace and if you don't mind I won't be taking your word that the minimum return is 93%.
There are many display requirements for B&M Casino slots and RTG adhere to few of them.

Don't give up my Day job?

Is it time to get personal,are you getting upset Boy?

Originally Posted by Rusty:
Why don't you tell us all which Casinos have what payback currently and how often they are changed and if we will be advised of any changes in the future?
I am sure players would like and indeed have a right to know.

DogBoys reply:
That's up to the operator.
Some might like to advertise such, some might not.
I'm here to comment on the software and refute some of the misinformation that is being spouted, not comment on operators.

Yadda yadda you say a lot for someone who says nothing at all.
I ask a perfectly reasonable question and your answer is to waffle on about misinformation, classic denial technique.

Originally Posted by Rusty:
Either you are full of it and/or the freespins are not independent random results so can be calculated in more precisely.

DogBoys reply:
See here's one of those "sweeping statements" I refered to.
Either everything fits into the erroneous mental picture you have of the way things should work, or it must be rigged and we're all ful of crap!

I'm not here to convince you Rusty, I'm here to counter rubbish statements like that one.

Exactly, you are here in an attempt to rubbish that much is obvious.
I thought you said you were here to tell us how the software worked?
A pitty you don't offer any evidence or facts or even insight to go with your rubishing remarks, maybe they would hold more weight.
oh well.
Again.
Yadda Yadda you say a lot for someone who says nothing at all.

DogBoy:
Once again, if it doesn't fit the way you would do it, it must be rigged, right?

You see Boy that is an example of a sweeping statement.
I have never Once said the software is rigged, I have only said it uses weighting and also that it maintains a random element.

DogBoy:
Rusty, you seem to be just an antagonist that selectively chooses what they will read, then pick out the points that try to match their argument and twist to suit.
Again, do you see, that suits you so much better.

You sound a bit manic in the next bit with an excess of LOL's

DogBoy:

So in one breath you say that cutting from one location to another mid-spin is fine for Cashapillar and then you turn and so that RTG shouldn't be using it? Instead RTG should cycle through 50, 60, 100? stop locations each and every spin? Lol.

And what happens if you have different length reel strips? So 30 on one and 80 on another? Does this mean, since according to you we should cycle through all stop locations, one spins for almost 3 times longer? Lol

I didn't say it was ok for Cashapillar just more understandable if a slot has excessively long reels.
Why do you waffle on about 50,60 and 100 stop locations which niether Achilles nor Cleopatra or indeed any other RTG real series slot I can think of have?
You compound this irrelevance with your next statement, One reel has 30 symbols and another has 80? Which RTG slot are we talking about, oh the theoretical one that does not exist, may I LOL?

DogBoy: (on animation glitches)
The switch between start reel location and lead up to end reel location occurs mid point.
Not so.
I see the same symbol go past Twice at the start of an animation.
For example on a long spin(Two scatters already) the scatter may quickly appear and as soon as it is past the bottom reappear.
I know there is only One of the symbol on the reel so obviously the animation has reset.
Another thing about these animation glitches.
Derby Dollars for example.
So often after a big feature win I see something happen with the reels a few spins later.
It appears as though there are many Gold coins on the first reel as it spins and then I never see it again for maybe 100 spins or more,often not even in the animation.
I would say it was strange but it is a common theme with the other slots.
Just a weird coincidence, please.

Retriggers are naturally occuring?

You said;
Reel strips may be altered (improved, they are never made worse in any game I've ever been involved in) during feature sequences only

What exactly are the improvements and what does the may be depend upon?

Since if they are only improved sometimes then obviously other times they are not.
Yet you also state the reel strips are not changed dynamically?

If they are natural how is it I can get 5 retriggers in the same games at different Casinos and go from hitting (guesstimate but not far off)as many 50 retrigger in 100 features to just One or Two retriggers in the next 100?
Another coincidence?
Oh, and virtualy all the feaures pay between 10 and 30 X bet at the same time.
Another coincidence?

Originally Posted by Rusty
You want us to believe that RTG are fair and honest and yet it is obvious they lack integrity , even morality, when they allow rogue operators to rip off their customers and turn their backs on them.
Of course RTG still get their sack of Gold from the Op so they don't give a damn, and you say this is not a shoddy company?

DogBoy:
You're confusing operator issues once again with software issues.

No confusion, on my part at least.

I am not of the opinion that a provider has no responsibilities for their product and if it were being used by criminals who profit using their product I would expect them to act instead of creaming off the top.
Software providers and Casinos that use it,the Two are inextricably linked.

The fact is DogBoy your words carry no more weight than mine however much you would like people to believe otherwise.
Obviously you are representing RTG and I am representing my true experiences.

People can read this thread and both our posts as well as use their own RTG experiences to decide what they believe.
I am Happy with that.

 

[Kenny Lingus]

....as we're heavily involved in the development we know exactly how the software functions, and test the games before go live as well as in theory.

So if the software was indeed "shonky", you would likely not be honest about it, because 1) your company was in on it, or 2) you would be embarrassed to admit that your company might have made a mistake or looked the other way.

Lol, methinks that anyone that plays a game for money and bears the associated risk/reward is rarely impartial to the outcome.

lololololol, I thinks that anyone paid by a company cannot be trusted to be completely honest about that company's offering, especially as to comment whether or not there might be anything underhanded going on.

www.dynamitegames.com.au

Especially when self-promoting!

When you are paid by the man, any comments made as to the man's legitimacy will be scrutinized by others for their potential to be self-serving....

 

[LaurieJim]

Rusty, you seem to be just an antagonist that selectively chooses what they will read, then pick out the points that try to match their argument and twist to suit.

I've stated that there are 3 very close RTP settings that an operator may elect to use, which can be changed, but not on the fly. This is done by RTG, and does involve a time delay of greater than 24 hours. Typically an operator may stick with the same setting for months on end...since once again I'll point out that the RTP variants available are close.

And you're telling me that having several RTP settings makes software shonky? So by that rationale all B&M casinos that can change settings generally once a month if they say desire are shonky? And no, B&M casinos also do not advertise the change.
Don't give up your day job.



That's up to the operator.
Some might like to advertise such, some might not.
I'm here to comment on the software and refute some of the misinformation that is being spouted, not comment on operators.



What? A most unlikely way to manipulate RTP?
Actually it's a very useful way that enables higher RTP settings to have a slightly better trigger chance, which is not unlikely, it's an industry norm.




Tighter control?
To have an average random chance of 1 in 129, for example, versus 1 in 134 has nothing to do with control.
Why keep the higher RTP setting at 1 in 134 and replace a lower symbol with a higher one? The impact is less pronounced than by reducing the average trigger chance.
Replacing is another industry norm, but less effective.




See here's one of those "sweeping statements" I refered to.
Either everything fits into the erroneous mental picture you have of the way things should work, or it must be rigged and we're all ful of crap!

I'm not here to convince you Rusty, I'm here to counter rubbish statements like that one.




Once again, if it doesn't fit the way you would do it, it must be rigged, right?
As stated in the previous Fruit Fenzy discourse, the "request all free game results in one go" was only on the first game to go live that we supplied (Cleopatra's Gold).
The resulting delay in communication produced a noticeable delay, which is why it was changed from requesting all free game results at the time of trigger to requesting one at a time.

And it's the same as requesting any random result from any spin, 5 random stop locations are requested (with equal chance to stop on any given position of each reel), and then win evaluation occurs.



So in one breath you say that cutting from one location to another mid-spin is fine for Cashapillar and then you turn and so that RTG shouldn't be using it? Instead RTG should cycle through 50, 60, 100? stop locations each and every spin? Lol.

And what happens if you have different length reel strips? So 30 on one and 80 on another? Does this mean, since according to you we should cycle through all stop locations, one spins for almost 3 times longer? Lol

Maybe we should just use the mega blur that some other providers use so you can't get any reel anticipation?



No, actually, splicing does not occur at the start of the spin, otherwise you'd have things occurring like in NG Tomb Raider II, with the switch from base game reels to completely different free game reels from the trigger event.

On the RTG games the spin starts and at least 3 stops on the existing location are displayed before any switch to the reel area leading up to its new stop location.
Not sure what you mean by "only occur in batches of spins"?



Any reel speed changes would be communication issues. There are no in-built calls for speed changes...why would they even be useful? If the system was dodgy as you say it is, why would a reel speed decrease or increase be required? It would serve no purpose, it's not a mechanical device, one could keep the video speed constant and have the same result.

Animations never "reset"...it's not a system where the reels stop and then the symbols suddenly vanish.
The switch between start reel location and lead up to end reel location occurs mid point.



That's correct.
you should know how the maths work, it's simply a probability of something occurring and the average prize that will result from that yielding the contribution towards RTP.

So in the base game any prize has a certain chance of occurring (number of combinations/total combinations). The prize value multiplied by this probability yields its contribution towards RTP.
e.g.: A 5000 prize with 10 combinations out of 5,000,000 total combinations would contribute 1% of the game's total RTP.

Features are just another part of this calculation.
What is the chance of the trigger occurring? What is the average prize that they player will win from it? (for instance in free games the average RTP using free game reels multiplied out by the average total number of free games)
Retriggers are calculated within this framework and contribute to increasing the average total number of free games.

All results are random.




Well now you're getting in to operator issues.
And I'm fairly sure that a lot of RTG operators do not offer this facility.




You're confusing operator issues once again with software issues.
I'm aware that you have issues with oversight and with some operators, that's not for me to comment on.

What is for me to comment on is the constant spouting about an unfair system, and in that you're wrong Rusty

Woof

rusty has a right to bring to light what he may feel about this issue, you really seem to know your rtg dogboy and thats wonderful and it always makes for a better debate to have 2 sides, so imo rusty has earned that right as a long standing member of this forum also, who i might add knows a few things about online games too, i cant say yes or no if they(games) can be controlled or not but its good to know that there are other forum members that can explian these things to us and make us aware..........laurie

 

[DogBoy001]

So if the software was indeed "shonky", you would likely not be honest about it, because 1) your company was in on it, or 2) you would be embarrassed to admit that your company might have made a mistake or looked the other way.



lololololol, I thinks that anyone paid by a company cannot be trusted to be completely honest about that company's offering, especially as to comment whether or not there might be anything underhanded going on.



Especially when self-promoting!

When you are paid by the man, any comments made as to the man's legitimacy will be scrutinized by others for their potential to be self-serving....

Lol! Self-promoting?
No, the purpose of the URL was to provide an insight into the fact that we are far bigger than just selling content to RTG.

And we definitely do not need to self-promote, having turned down far more companies than we deal with.

 

[DogBoy001]

rusty has a right to bring to light what he may feel about this issue, you really seem to know your rtg dogboy and thats wonderful and it always makes for a better debate to have 2 sides, so imo rusty has earned that right as a long standing member of this forum also, who i might add knows a few things about online games too, i cant say yes or no if they(games) can be controlled or not but its good to know that there are other forum members that can explian these things to us and make us aware..........laurie

I've no problem with debate.

I do have a problem with people crying "rigged" when that isn't the case.

Anyway, I'll pop up in a month or two and fire away once again when I see another comment that bemuses me.

Woof

 

[Kenny Lingus]

....we definitely do not need to self-promote, having turned down far more companies than we deal with.

Well, sure, anyone who helped design RiggedTooGood software is probably in big demand!

 

[LaurieJim]

I've no problem with debate.

I do have a problem with people crying "rigged" when that isn't the case.

Anyway, I'll pop up in a month or two and fire away once again when I see another comment that bemuses me.

Woof

ok but before you go away, one question, would you bet everything you own that the software can not be tampered with? its just a simple question and all i need is a simple answer bemuse away, as i really would like an honest answer to my question.......laurie

 

[Rusty]

I've no problem with debate.

I do have a problem with people crying "rigged" when that isn't the case.

Anyway, I'll pop up in a month or two and fire away once again when I see another comment that bemuses me.

Woof

That is funny on so many levels.
I quite like the look of that game that guarantees a feature over certain period of play you have patented
I doubt it will take that long for you to be bemused, see you soon.

 

[DogBoy001]

ok but before you go away, one question, would you bet everything you own that the software can not be tampered with? its just a simple question and all i need is a simple answer bemuse away, as i really would like an honest answer to my question.......laurie

Heya,

To me the points that confirm that the software hasn't been tampered with are:
1) We know monthly figures for our games and typically 1-2 of those will have resulted in negative return to the casinos as a whole (if the software was rigged you would never have a game returning greater than 100% RTP over a period)
2) RTG only have one version of the system. Even items such as themed messaging per game present an issue, because we wanted to avoid doing non-English translations of everything, but are having to bite the bulllet because it's too difficult to produce a variant software (so we know that the software system running is the same that we see)
3) We run, and RTG also run, spin tests that we see, and volatility studies to determine risk...there would be no need to do all that if the software were a dodge.
4) We annually audit the reporting, and have had no issues raised in the years we have been dealing with RTG.
5) We have dealt with various operators and have seen things from the operator side. We know that RTG software is not capable of being tampered with by an operator even if they did want to bend or break things.

So...to me, the software hasn't been tampered with and remains a truly random system.

Woof

 

[chuchu59]

well I havent read all the thread.
Ive just asked for my stats....I will receive it.(maiby)
What I can say is, after the problem I had with JADE, i did go back and made several deposits actually a lot of deposits.....
I played slots and Keno.
What I can tell you guys is that my keno return to player was .....maybe 40 % ...just maybe.
Im talking about weeks upon weeks of playing.....thousands and thousands and thousands of spins.....the best I got was 3 times(in days) 7 out of 10 wich pays 37.50.....at 25cents spin.....ACCREDITED??????
Bryan you need to have look at it and review something.
Slots....oh yes I did play a lot....still...never got far from my deposits+bonus.....and when I was next to my wagering requirements......the DEATH came.....
Do we still need to be treated as IDIOTS?
This guys are just robbing us....and Im kind of tired I dont know about my fellow whom still believe in fairy tails.
Before I explode and get Banned for ever....could you please have look at it?
Rushmore you owe me ....after the problem we had....all of my deposits....cause after that problem....you really robbed my money.ROBBED!!!!
Jade Ill save the best for you as final show. If not here....somewhere else.
Thanks
kakata

Kakata,

After the row you had with Rushmore, any losses off deposits cannot be described as robberies. Rather they should be treated as voluntary donations.

 

[chuchu59]

Heya,

To me the points that confirm that the software hasn't been tampered with are:
1) We know monthly figures for our games and typically 1-2 of those will have resulted in negative return to the casinos as a whole (if the software was rigged you would never have a game returning greater than 100% RTP over a period)
2) RTG only have one version of the system. Even items such as themed messaging per game present an issue, because we wanted to avoid doing non-English translations of everything, but are having to bite the bulllet because it's too difficult to produce a variant software (so we know that the software system running is the same that we see)
3) We run, and RTG also run, spin tests that we see, and volatility studies to determine risk...there would be no need to do all that if the software were a dodge.
4) We annually audit the reporting, and have had no issues raised in the years we have been dealing with RTG.
5) We have dealt with various operators and have seen things from the operator side. We know that RTG software is not capable of being tampered with by an operator even if they did want to bend or break things.

So...to me, the software hasn't been tampered with and remains a truly random system.

Woof

Not trying to doubt you but your answer falls short of answering Laurie's original question. Neither am I trying to put words in your mouth though it seems that you are practically saying save for point 5) that it is possible for the software to be tampered with although there is no evidence to this happening just yet.

 

[kakata]

still waiting for my stats....

Hello guys.Could you please e-mail me my stats,for the last 3 weeks, slots and Keno play?thanx xxxxx

 

[babs7262]

Hi DogBoy

I dont claim to know much about how slots work so that is why I am hoping you can answer this question for me. Im far from an expert but I do pay attention to what I am playing and this is my question. Ill try to make it easy to understand (not on your part, on me writing it easy)

Let just take Honey to the Bee...just this one slot so it doesnt get confusing, plus Im using it because it's one of my favorite games that I use to play.

Ok Im betting 20cents a spin....I just deposit and go to the Bee. The first thing I do is 20cents because I wanna see if the Fat Bee as well as the Hive are on the reels (fat bee on any and hive on 5th). There are times when the Hive is missing on the 5th reel. WHy is that? I dont mean a few spins. I have done as many as 10-15 in a row without seeing the hive on the 5th reel one time. You need that hive to retrigger.

Ok.Im betting 40cents a spin: The hive is there but now I cant find the Fat Bee on the first reel, giving you better payouts if its on the reel 1. OMG, I dont see the Fat bee on any of them BUT the hive is on the 5th reel

OK..betting a $1 spin...Both the Hive and Bee exists but i cant get a bonus round for the life of me

See what Im getting at? Now...there are times when both the hive and the fat bee are together on 20cents but not or on 40cents but not 20 so I end up playing where the bees/hives are.

Why does it do this? If they are not touched how in the heck can I go 15 spins without seeing the Hive one time go by on the 5th reel. I can easily prove this by video recording my spins if you dont believe me. I have brought this up many times and never get an answer.

THe same thing happens to me on Goldbeard with him not being on line 1. He is mostly always on reel 5 but there have been times when hes completely missing on reel 1.

Can you help me understand how this can happen? THank you

 

[winbig]

5) We have dealt with various operators and have seen things from the operator side. We know that RTG software is not capable of being tampered with by an operator even if they did want to bend or break things.

Where there is a will, there is a way. NO software is 'tamper proof.' Apple had the mentality that the iPhone was tamper proof, but look at what happened. It was unlocked after about 500 hours on the project. By a 17 year old, nonetheless.

Here's the original story:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I could go on and on with other examples, but you get the picture.

Side note: Unless you're a programmer for the actual RTG client, then you can't really speak for them...

also:

1) We know monthly figures for our games and typically 1-2 of those will have resulted in negative return to the casinos as a whole (if the software was rigged you would never have a game returning greater than 100% RTP over a period)

If casino software was really rigged, do you really think they would be dumb enough have ALL of their games set to a < RTP? Of course not. This way they would have a better chance of passing an audit. This also keeps customers around, of course. You have to let them win sometimes, or else they wouldn't come back!

 

[DogBoy001]

Hi DogBoy

I dont claim to know much about how slots work so that is why I am hoping you can answer this question for me. Im far from an expert but I do pay attention to what I am playing and this is my question. Ill try to make it easy to understand (not on your part, on me writing it easy)

Let just take Honey to the Bee...just this one slot so it doesnt get confusing, plus Im using it because it's one of my favorite games that I use to play.

Ok Im betting 20cents a spin....I just deposit and go to the Bee. The first thing I do is 20cents because I wanna see if the Fat Bee as well as the Hive are on the reels (fat bee on any and hive on 5th). There are times when the Hive is missing on the 5th reel. WHy is that? I dont mean a few spins. I have done as many as 10-15 in a row without seeing the hive on the 5th reel one time. You need that hive to retrigger.

Ok.Im betting 40cents a spin: The hive is there but now I cant find the Fat Bee on the first reel, giving you better payouts if its on the reel 1. OMG, I dont see the Fat bee on any of them BUT the hive is on the 5th reel

OK..betting a $1 spin...Both the Hive and Bee exists but i cant get a bonus round for the life of me

See what Im getting at? Now...there are times when both the hive and the fat bee are together on 20cents but not or on 40cents but not 20 so I end up playing where the bees/hives are.

Why does it do this? If they are not touched how in the heck can I go 15 spins without seeing the Hive one time go by on the 5th reel. I can easily prove this by video recording my spins if you dont believe me. I have brought this up many times and never get an answer.

THe same thing happens to me on Goldbeard with him not being on line 1. He is mostly always on reel 5 but there have been times when hes completely missing on reel 1.

Can you help me understand how this can happen? THank you

Heya,

I'd hoped to avoid giving out precise game details, but maybe by doing so it'll clarify things a bit more.

Well the 5th reel in this game is pretty long in Honey to the Bee.
There's 1 Hive and the strip is 100 in length, so on average you're going to go over 30 spins without hitting the Hive on reel 5.
If you're seeing say 12 symbols flash by during the spin it's pretty likely that you'll regularly go periods where you won't see it, particularly if the RNG is spitting out results that aren't near the Hive (either from the previous end position or the new stop position that has been randomly generated).

Reel 1's only 36 long, with 1 Worker Bee, so it should be occurring (or at least flashing by) quite regularly (though it may be that on average you only see it every 3-4 spins and hit in 1 in 12.)
However even with those averages it is likely that you will go runs where it appears like it's missing...it isn't, it's just that again the RNG may be putting out results that mean you won't see it in the post-spin reel section and then later in the pre-stop reel section.

There's no test of bet level or play to determine the spin results.
Every spin is independent, i.e.: the RNG will simply produce a random stop location for the spin on each reel, with equal chance of hitting any given stop on the reel strip.

Goldbeard has a slightly longer reel 5 strip than reel 1, with the same number of Goldbeard symbols (3 grouped). Being grouped there's only 5 stop locations that will witness a Goldbeard hitting on the reel (the (centre) stops above and below the grouped symbols, which would both result in 1 Goldbeard, the topmost and bottommost Goldbeard symbols, which would result in 2 Goldbeard symbols on the reel, and the centre Goldbeard which would yield all 3)
Given 5 stops you'll regularly go 10-12 spins without hitting, and often 3-4 without seeing one go by. I know it can seem like it's always one or the other, but that's the quirks of probability and random generation of results.
Overall the feature will hit around once every 120 spins.

Both of these games, along with the majority of others that we have designed and that are currently deployed by RTG, are deployed or being deployed in traditional B&M pubs, clubs and casinos.
The mathematics, assets and testing regime used is the same for both the B&M and RTG, with the exception that the B&M variants range from 85% to 92% (ouch), and that the B&M undergoes totally independent testing by GLI and several jurisdictional regulators.

Since we're involved in both developments it's pretty easy for us to be satisfied that both the land-based and on-line game versions are being developed and deployed as truly random systems.

Hope it helps.

Woof

 

[babs7262]

So the hives are clumped together then? Because when the hive does show up on reel 5, I see it alot and one time I retriggrerd 4 times and ended up the like 75 spins. If its suppose to show up 1/100 then I guess that means a machine CAN be hot. If a machine can be hot then it can be worked with in my eyes. THere was a time (it only happened to me once) that Cleopatra was giving me bonus rounds every 4th spin, it was crazy. I was happy but knew something was odd.

As for the worker bee on reel 1, trust me when I say this, there has been times when that worker bee is NOT on reel one at all. I was playing it everyday for almost 2 years and I never play auto. Infact Im a low budget player so I have to pay attention for the symbols. I just dont buy that the worker bee is 1/12 when I have gone tons of spins with him not being on reel one. I have seen him on other reels or I wouldnt be playing the game but not on reel one every now and then. Ive only seen this a handful of times over the past 2 years but it DID happen.

I just dont feel they are fool proof. Nothing is fool proof, why do you think they kept changing the B&M slots so much. They thought the first 5 designs were fool proof until they were shown otherwise by that guy who figured out every machine there was known to man

Thank you for taking the time to write back , I do appreciate that

 

[DogBoy001]

So the hives are clumped together then? Because when the hive does show up on reel 5, I see it alot and one time I retriggrerd 4 times and ended up the like 75 spins. If its suppose to show up 1/100 then I guess that means a machine CAN be hot. If a machine can be hot then it can be worked with in my eyes. THere was a time (it only happened to me once) that Cleopatra was giving me bonus rounds every 4th spin, it was crazy. I was happy but knew something was odd.

It's be 1 in 33.33 on average, and while there's extra Worker Bees added in the feature there aren't any extra Hives...so getting 4 re-triggers and a bunch of features on Cleo is a good example of how the RNG can work both ways

The perceived "clumping" of Hives is an illusion caused by changing from a known the start location (the previous stop position on the reels) and having the spinning of the reel initially show the symbols on the strip above that start location.
The video spin animation will then change at some point to show the reel strip leading up to the stop position that the RNG has called for.
So sometimes you'll see a Hive initially (which was above the reel stop position of the last spin) and then see it again as it is about to stop, if the new stop position is near that Hive reel stop location as well.

As for the worker bee on reel 1, trust me when I say this, there has been times when that worker bee is NOT on reel one at all. I was playing it everyday for almost 2 years and I never play auto. Infact Im a low budget player so I have to pay attention for the symbols. I just dont buy that the worker bee is 1/12 when I have gone tons of spins with him not being on reel one. I have seen him on other reels or I wouldnt be playing the game but not on reel one every now and then. Ive only seen this a handful of times over the past 2 years but it DID happen.

The more I read the more I'm wondering whether the RNG itself is clumpy. A quirky RNG could explain hot streaks and poor ones and still lead to an overall result that matched RTP expectations and was a random system.
In cases like this would you say that the reel 1 did not display the Bee at all during the spin for long periods? e.g.: Did not see it at all during 10 spins? 20 spins?
I'll have to examine it further.

I just dont feel they are fool proof. Nothing is fool proof, why do you think they kept changing the B&M slots so much. They thought the first 5 designs were fool proof until they were shown otherwise by that guy who figured out every machine there was known to man

Thank you for taking the time to write back , I do appreciate that

No worries!

 

[babs7262]

On your last question about the worker bee not showing at all on reel one, the answer is yes to that. Infact, it happened on a rushmore slot not too long ago and it also happened once while playing at clubworld. I was kind of mad at myself for continuing to play a slot I knew I wasnt going to hit but do you ever keep going on something just because you cant believe your eyes? I kind of gave up my play time to see for myself and kept spinning. I distinctly remember becauase I kept saying to myself "why the hell are you playing when the bee isnt showing up" and then I would think "This cant be, Its gonna show up on the next one" Before I knew it I blew threw almost $10 on 20 cent spins just to prove I was right that the worker bee was not on reel one.

I know theres a thread around here from 2 different occasions when I asked and people did believe me but didnt have the answer. Maybe Ill be able to find them by the time you come by next month. I would really like to know how that is possible if reel one is what you call "a 35 strip"

Ive seen malfunctions at B&M's so it can happen, Im not saying or implying that the game is rigged Im just wondering if theres a problem with that particular game.

I do agree with the rest of the bunch on the payouts being so poor within the last year though. I closed out my RTG's (unhappily so) and keep one active but uninstalled for the once a month yen that I get for the Bee and Lion

Thank you again.

 

[kakata]

I still didnt receive my stats.
Rushmore?
Ive asked for em 1 week ago.....and I still want em
Maybe it will be embarassing for you guys....I know that, that's why I want em.

 

[LaurieJim]

dogboy,i think its so wonderful that you are able to give us the answers on these R.T.G games and we are very thankful, believe me , so please dont take this as any other way its meant, but i still just have the one simple question, would you bet everything you own, everything, that the games can not be tampered with in one way or another, i think its a fair enough question for someone who knows R.T.G inside and out, wouldnt you agree?....laurie

 

[KasinoKing]

I've just been catching up on this thread after about 10 days of not looking at it.
Wow, that's a lot of reading! :Read:

I'm not going to get involved in discussions about whether I think RTG slots are rigged or not because I don't play them often enough to form a solid opinion. My gut feel is that they are not rigged and the 'streaks' players see are just the natural results of the RNG, the long reel strips and the way the slots 'cut in' the finishing symbols.

I just want to say hat's off to DogBoy001 for staying (relatively) calm and impersonal in response to so many accusations and implications, and also to thank him for continuing to post here and not be 'scared off' as have so many other casino representatives in the past. I hope he sticks around as I find his information very interesting!

The other thing i want to say is to all those players who are convinced that RTG games are rigged, manipulated, whatever; for flips sake please stop playing at RTG casinos!

My 2c.

 

[winbig]

dogboy,i think its so wonderful that you are able to give us the answers on these R.T.G games and we are very thankful, believe me , so please dont take this as any other way its meant, but i still just have the one simple question, would you bet everything you own, everything, that the games can not be tampered with in one way or another, i think its a fair enough question for someone who knows R.T.G inside and out, wouldnt you agree?....laurie

ty for bringing this up again, laurie

I'm still waiting on comment to this post: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/rushmore-casino-experiences.24300/

 

[kakata]

Hey accredited casino??? Hellooooo.....I want my last 3 weeks Keno stats.
Thanks

 

[Rusty]

You still waiting Kakata?
I know I am.
I asked for some very specific stats and told them they were important and not heard a thing yet.

KK you credit Dogboy for staying calm amid accusations and implications?
No one has accused DogBoy of anything and He has made plenty of accusations and implications of His own, perhaps you are thanking the wrong person for staying calm?

Even better you start by saying you are not going to get involved in the discussion and then promptly get involved in the discussion.

On top of that you say you don't play RTG slots but you think they are fair?

If you want people to continue to believe that you are open minded on the subject of fair play then please base your opinions, at least, if not on fact then on experience.

 

[kakata]

still waiting.
I know they wont send it.....those 3 weeks stats on keno are pathetic.....less than 50% and we are talking about 3 weeks of playing not 1 or 2 days.

 

[Rusty]

OK no response.
An accredited Casino that can not send stats?
Loads of connection problems too.

Bye Bye:sniper:

 

[mercy]

This just shows how differently a casino is judged by people with wildly different experiences.

I for one have had nothing but good luck, great customer service and lightening fast cash outs to qt. My cash outs are in my bank account in the time that a mg casino would be processing my withdrawals.

My point is to make your own decision, go with casinos that are on cm list and you have a good chance of having a good experience, not necessarily a winning one

 

[kakata]

some posters response are the reasons why 'they'(casinos) dont feel the urge to answer to complains......
as matter of fact they still didnt......OHHHH yes they are accredited....I forgot that

 

[chuchu59]

Let's not apportion blame among ourselves as to why there are no responses from the casinos or rather the I-Gaming Forum reps here. Some will say the casinos wont respond because players defend them so there is no need for them to reply while others see it differently and believe we have been too aggressive and hence there is a reluctance from reps to answer. I do believe both sides have their merits.

Now, the I-gaming forum reps are understood to be the representatives or even the spokepersons for the casinos in this forum and as long as the posts are not insulting in nature they have an obligation to respond. I understand that the quickest solution is usually to have pms sent to the reps but there instances where some players believe that others should know what is happening. The keno stats should be easily available for Kakata so why the delay? It's been nearly 10 days since he posted.

This lack of cooperation is nothing new though. I have been waiting for more than 4 months from an RTG casino for the House Rules for Paigow Poker and despite reminders all they say is that it's coming. It is impossible to believe that they are unable, as an RTG customer to get this info. Sorry for the derail.