RTP of Accredited Casinos

[P.V.]

IGT

Bonkerjerks - IGT has applied for an online poker license in Nevada correct, same outfit?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Using Siberian Storm as an example, we provide three math models for the game with different RTPs. Any of our casino partners can choose which math model they want to offer their customers. They can't change the RTP on the fly, like while you are playing the game, but they can take the initially offered game down and then put up a different math model if they so choose.

That really is dreadful TBH.

It's been a pretty well known practice here in the UK with our AWPs for as long as time, get the new games in on a high RTP (albeit AWPs are compensated but the principle remains the same), put them at the front of the arcade, get players onto the games, and then knock the RTP down.

By the time they've sussed out what's going on, they've been cleaned out.

I realise this is not your fault Bonkerjerks, and I genuinely appreciate your candour as to how this can work - but the idea of an online casino getting a high variance slot onto their books at a good 96% payout, before dropping it down to 92% at some point in the future with the player having NO IDEA WHATSOEVER that this has happened is just awful.

For the good of your brand and your reputation as a slots provider, you really should have all online slots displaying their ACTUAL theoretical RTP. It was bad enough knowing that there was a range, now that I know the casino can start off at one RTP and then change to a lower RTP at a later date - no thanks.

(I'm not singling out IGT slots here BTW, I'm starting to feel more uneasy about MG as time rolls on, since they simply won't give a slot-by-slot breakdown of their RTPs. As a UK player, I'm gravitating more towards Jackpot Party and 3Dice, who are impressively transparent as to the RTPs, variances, and progressive functionality of their online slots on an individual basis.)

 

[TheLastCylon]

(I'm not singling out IGT slots here BTW, I'm starting to feel more uneasy about MG as time rolls on, since they simply won't give a slot-by-slot breakdown of their RTPs. As a UK player, I'm gravitating more towards Jackpot Party and 3Dice, who are impressively transparent as to the RTPs, variances, and progressive functionality of their online slots on an individual basis.)

I checked out both of them and I don't think that you should give them the accolades that you are. Even Simmo! admits earlier in the thread that the Zeitgeist is fun to look at but doesn't provide much useful data.

Likewise, I went to Jackpot Party, and followed a link labeled "Jackpot Party's Fair-Play Guarantees" to the following:

Old / Expired Link

I tried finding some of the raw data, regarding RTP, Variance and Progressive functionality and I can’t find anything.

Graphics at the top for TST and Gaming Laboratories International are simply images with no link.

The graphics for Alderney (the AGCC) and TST at the bottom of the page, and the links that supposedly provide information, just send you to the respective companies' web sites.

According to Casinomeister's accredited list, they use (and apparently are the only one that does use) WMS Gaming software. As such, we don't have any other casinos against which to compare it.

Obviously, I'm not saying that these casinos are crooked. Especially 3Dice, what with their absolutely sparkling reputation. I'm just saying that they will need to do more to receive serious kudos in my book.

 

[Takkaone]

@ Bonkerjerks: You mentioned different "math-models" for your slots. This has me really confused... As in my understanding, there are only two things which together build the rtp: On the one hand the reel-strip (or reel-layout) and on the other hand the paytable... The rtp should be a function between these two things only, if we are talking about a real slot machine. So i can think of only two ways of changing the rtp of a slotmachine. Either i cange the reel-strip (like taking out some of the high paying symbols and exchanging them against low paying ones), or i change the paytable...

Changing the paytable would be quiet obvious for every player. (in videopoker i only need to take a look at the paytable and i know the rtp....).

So there is only the change of the reel-strip, which would take the player a very long time to even get suspicious of... (and which i would consider not very good business practice)

Or am i missing something, and there is something else? (maybe that is what you call "math-model")


This would naturaly only apply to let´s call it "REAL" slotmachines or their online-simulations! (with actual reels spinning and stopping randomly) Or are we all playing some kind of "PSEUDO"-slotmachines, where i click the spin-button and the computer decides based on some kind of "math-model" how many percent of my bet i get back, and then shows me one of the possible combinations of symbols on my screen, which actually would lead to this exact payout?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Likewise, I went to Jackpot Party, and followed a link labeled "Jackpot Party's Fair-Play Guarantees" to the following:

Old / Expired Link

I tried finding some of the raw data, regarding RTP, Variance and Progressive functionality and I can’t find anything.

There's RTP information on the paytable of every game at Jackpot Party.

They're basically all the same though, 92% on the base game and 3% to the progressives (give or take a small amount on the base game, progressive contribution is a fixed 2.99% across all games).

Variance you kind of have to work out for yourself, although there are 'categories' of games that helps a bit (the 'classic' games are usually the lower variance ones).

The official line on triggering the progressive feature is that any game can trigger it on any spin at any stake at any time, but that the higher the stake the greater the chance of triggering the feature.

Had it a couple of times myself, playing at stakes as low as 20p per spin

 

[Igor82]

Personally, I think if Accred Casino A has an RTP setting of 91%, and the Accred Casino B has 95%, then players should know about it....and those casinos with higher RTPs would then reap the rewards of having better payouts in comparison to others. In fact, some kind of RTP category could be created where higher settings are recognized with a different "class" or sub-category, similar to the one I suggested for payout speeds. Each Accred Casino could have a Gold, Silver, or Bronze star next to their listing under two new columns of "Payout Speed" and "RTP" to allow potential players to make informed choices.

It's a really good idea, but you would need to segregate the info based on game suite.

For example if Casino A has 80% of its active player volume playing table games, while casino B has 80 of its player volume coming from Slots, the RTP% will appear in favour of Casino A, while in reality its slots may be paying out lower than casino B

There's also a question of a time-frame as other posters mentioned. Theoretical RTP% only works on 'infinite number of hands'

An RTP% session tracker may be a good idea letting the player know what their game/login session RTP% was comparative to the theoretical, but in retrospect its also pretty useless as it will most definitely change drastically with each session.

It would be quote cool to have a visible RTP% tracker widget per game that calculates the RTP% of that game across the entire casino volume to date.. doing it also across the player base visible in 24hr segments lets the players know the 'hot' games to play on...

Other than that, knowing RTP% doesn't really do much, especially with more accredited suppliers as it cannot be influenced :/

 

[ChopleyIOM]

New IGT slot at Kerching.com launched today, not sure if it's on the other sites running IGT slots or has been around awhile.

Annoyingly, it continues the trend of IGT slots displaying RTP as a range of values, (which as we've discussed at length, is effectively worthless), in this case it's listed as 92.50% to 94.98%.

I raised a Support Ticket with Kerching and they confirmed that they are running the 94.98% maths model of this game.

Might be worth checking up with your IGT casino of choice before you play this game!

----------------

Response Via Email - 26/04/2012 01.23 PM
Dear XXXXXX

Thank you for your email.

In regards to our conversation earlier today, I can confirm Kerching is using the 94.98% paymodel (the higher paying version) for Coyote Moon.

If you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards

Customer Service Team
Kerching Casino

----------------

 

[Playforfun]

excellent. a must have suggestion

As RTP is ultimately the most important factor for players.

I voted theoretical RTP. but for strategy dependent games (BJ etc. + some skill slots) casinos must post average player RTPs (theoretically calculated to the strategy of the average player)

 

[lockinlove]

I think it should be done. For RTG slots to hide them I find very shady.

I think RTG slots are 100% rigged.


In the past 3 months I have thousands of spins each at 8 different casinos.

I have hit mountains of 100X bets. At every software provide but RTG casinos (clubworld)

I have went about 20 str8 deposits with $3000 spent without a single 100X bet in 3 years. A win or barely ever even above my starting balance at them.

I think their RTP is set at 85% imo

 

[hedgehok]

Old thread but the topic is still relevant in 2016.

Imho every casino should offer theoretical RTP figures for their games. Especially for RTG which can choose out of 3 settings it should be mandatory to provide this kind of information to the players. This is the main reason I don't play there, because I constantly have to fear to play creepy 91% RTP games.
I'm glad to see that many reputable casinos (32red, betat, Videoslots) are actually offering this crucial information nowadays.

It's actually a decent idea to think about an additional 0.1 or 0.2 points on the Meister-score for casinos that offer comprehensive data on theoretical RTP (and/or actual RTP)

 

[petro]

Some RTG casinos are either deliberately or through incompetence misleading players.
I asked at one RTG casino I played at what the RTP of the slots were and I was told all are 95%.
I then asked at the same RTG casino about a week later what the RTP on the slots was and I was told all are 90%.

As far as the poll on this thread is concerned; having theoretical RTP and real time RTP is best for players. The more information the better.
I don't play at any RTG casinos so the topic of RTP is not important to me. The RTP from the main companies like Microgaming & NetEnt are known.
I would direct questions about slot RTP to The Pogg's site or Video Slots.

The change I would like to see on this site is a country filter for accredited casinos. That would make my life easier.

This is the main reason I don't play there, because I constantly have to fear to play creepy 91% RTP games.

They would probably see more business from me if they were open about the RTP.

I'm glad to see that many reputable casinos (32red, betat, Videoslots) are actually offering this crucial information nowadays.

AFAIK 32Red don't publish RTP. At least not the theoretical RTP.