RTG's Caribbean 21 lie

[caps]

Well, that certainly puts the exchanges in a different light, though it seems only to be a portion of the conversation(s).

 

[caruso]

You will lose site of what you are shooting at if you are endlessly sending bullets down range; the smoke will obscure your target.

No loss of sight, to be honest. I think the situation here is pretty clear cut. Facing gargantuan losses, casino invents excuse to not pay.

...he has the money to hire a decent lawyer that should be willing to tackle this in a US court. I honestly believe that the player has legal recourses (civil court or "out of court" settlements). This is the proper place to hash this out, especially with the funds involved. Here is a question most of you should be asking yourselves: Why hasn't he done this yet?

Because everything seemed hunky-dorey until a few days ago when the casino made this cack-handed attempt to screw him. And I guess he HAS retained a lawyer, as you suggest. He just hasn't called in his services yet, or he may be looking for a more specialized one, higher profile one, etc etc. It would pay to have the right legal resources in place in a case like this.

Another question you should be asking yourselves: Why has the player been so vocal in these message boards, but has yet to pick up a phone and give the software provider RTG a call...Considering the amount of $$$ involved, this is the first thing I would have done.

Because he's dealt to date exclusively with the casino manager. Additionally, since you were personally handling the case it wouldn't have necessarily been appropriate to delve too deeply into further channels while you yourself were doing this.

I disagree about it being best to "chill". This needs to be kept high-profile and current. There are HUGE implications for all players if the industry suddenly gets wind of the fact that it's acceptable to void winnings on the basis of "he cheated and you'll just have to take my word for it". MASSIVE implications.

Sirius, Pirate or anyone else - any chance that someone can make transcripts of those conversations and post them at Sirius's site? I can barely hear them. I'd request it directly over there, but apparently Sirius needs a fax form to sign up to his forum, LOL!!

 

[Casinomeister]

I think the situation here is pretty clear cut.

Negative. You are rowing with one oar in the water. You haven't a clue to what has been transpiring except for P21's postings, and this recorded phone conversation.

Yet I've been privy to both sides. Yes, I heard the phone conversation at Sirius' site, but even so, I am convinced that this player committed fraud. You have heard the situation from the player's perspective. I have heard it from all three parties. Presently, I am not at liberty to discus this much further, but within the next few days I should be able to share more information with you all.

For the time being, P21 can rant and rave as much as he wants; he's sinking his own ship by doing so.

Additionally, since you were personally handling the case it wouldn't have necessarily been appropriate to delve too deeply into further channels while you yourself were doing this.

He approached me to find out what was happening. I acted as a conduit of information between the software provider and player, NOT the casino. I was merely giving him timelines for when the player's account may be reopened or when RTG would finish accessing their software audit. I too thought everything was honky dory until the player made some cryptic postings here which the casino looked into. His postings suggest hacking into the site/software...and it went on from there.

The player admitted to the casino that he used a robot/software program/whatever you want to call it. What the hell? I guess the casino should go back and retroactively change their T&Cs to allow robot play, and just pay the guy.

Jeeze Caruso, a casino has the right to either allow robot play or not, this is their preogative. If a player chooses to use his software on a casino that forbids this then he is SOL when his winnings get confiscated. Lest we forget, this player has already been paid by a number of casinos already who either a) didn't catch him or b) don't care that you use robots/software/whatever.

The irony of it all, if this guy would have just kept his mouth shut, he would be getting $4000 a week. If anybody screwed anyone it was the player screwing himself.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Hi All,

First of all, I'm not going to post the phone conversations that p21 sent until I receive permission from the casino to do so. There is a privacy issue here that is covered in this forum's terms and conditions.

I feel this is a also good time to sit back and let the smoke clear and try to put things into perspective. You will lose site of what you are shooting at if you are endlessly sending bullets down range; the smoke will obscure your target.

Perhaps the player could post how much he has won versus how much he has deposited over the past year here in this thread. Doing so, most of us will agree that he has the money to hire a decent lawyer that should be willing to tackle this in a US court. I honestly believe that the player has legal recourses (civil court or "out of court" settlements). This is the proper place to hash this out, especially with the funds involved.

Here is a question most of you should be asking yourselves: Why hasn't he done this yet? If it were me, the day that RTG pulled the game down, I would have retained a lawyer...and I also would have kept my mouth shut. This player obviously did not do this. Now don't get me wrong, this is not an admission of guilt. It merely gives a notion that something is not right.

Another question you should be asking yourselves: Why has the player been so vocal in these message boards, but has yet to pick up a phone and give the software provider RTG a call. Their main office is in Atlanta, and I've forwarded their phone number to the player so he or his lawyer can talk to them first hand.

Considering the amount of $$$ involved, this is the first thing I would have done.

Sometimes it's best to chill, and let things take their course. I think it's in the best interest for most parties involved to either negotiate directly via full time representatives, or take it to a place where they handle legal disputes.

You know Bryan you MUST BE KIDDING I didn't contact RTG because I didn't know where they were located. i ASKED YOU TWICE FOR CONTACT INFORMATION AND YOU NEVER RESPONDED WITH IT. hOW WAS i SUPPOSED TO CONTACT THEM?

 

[Pirateofc21]

Hi All,

First of all, I'm not going to post the phone conversations that p21 sent until I receive permission from the casino to do so. There is a privacy issue here that is covered in this forum's terms and conditions.

I feel this is a also good time to sit back and let the smoke clear and try to put things into perspective. You will lose site of what you are shooting at if you are endlessly sending bullets down range; the smoke will obscure your target.

Perhaps the player could post how much he has won versus how much he has deposited over the past year here in this thread. Doing so, most of us will agree that he has the money to hire a decent lawyer that should be willing to tackle this in a US court. I honestly believe that the player has legal recourses (civil court or "out of court" settlements). This is the proper place to hash this out, especially with the funds involved.

Here is a question most of you should be asking yourselves: Why hasn't he done this yet? If it were me, the day that RTG pulled the game down, I would have retained a lawyer...and I also would have kept my mouth shut. This player obviously did not do this. Now don't get me wrong, this is not an admission of guilt. It merely gives a notion that something is not right.

Another question you should be asking yourselves: Why has the player been so vocal in these message boards, but has yet to pick up a phone and give the software provider RTG a call. Their main office is in Atlanta, and I've forwarded their phone number to the player so he or his lawyer can talk to them first hand.

Considering the amount of $$$ involved, this is the first thing I would have done.

Sometimes it's best to chill, and let things take their course. I think it's in the best interest for most parties involved to either negotiate directly via full time representatives, or take it to a place where they handle legal disputes.

also why do you keep avoiding the issue of my other RTG accounts? They have closed my account at Delanos. HOW IS THAT RIGHT What has that got to do with anything.?

 

[Pirateofc21]

also why do you keep avoiding the issue of my other RTG accounts? They have closed my account at Delanos. HOW IS THAT RIGHT What has that got to do with anything.?

Third I have requested that you call me collect at the # I gave you. I can better answer these question personally. I have a lawyer so that should CLEAR UP YOUR DOUBTS.
1. I didn't call RTG because I didn't have contact information I told you this. I guess you forgot. It was also suggested that I stay out of the way.

2. Why are my other balances forfiet. what does the 70,000 at Delano's have to do with anything.

3. I have an Attorney who is following along. Remember I was told to stay quiet and let you handle it. which is what I did and I got screwed for it. My lawyer would have been breaking down the door the next day but I decided to stay out of the way and let Others with more experience handle this.

I hope this answers the points you brought up. Perhaps you could make that collect call when I return. I must leave now to take my duaghter to school. I will be back in about 15 minutes.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Third I have requested that you call me collect at the # I gave you. I can better answer these question personally. I have a lawyer so that should CLEAR UP YOUR DOUBTS.
1. I didn't call RTG because I didn't have contact information I told you this. I guess you forgot. It was also suggested that I stay out of the way.

2. Why are my other balances forfiet. what does the 70,000 at Delano's have to do with anything.

3. I have an Attorney who is following along. Remember I was told to stay quiet and let you handle it. which is what I did and I got screwed for it. My lawyer would have been breaking down the door the next day but I decided to stay out of the way and let Others with more experience handle this.

I hope this answers the points you brought up. Perhaps you could make that collect call when I return. I must leave now to take my duaghter to school. I will be back in about 15 minutes.

I'm now back. Please call me collect at the # I gave you. The people in this forum seem to agree with me. What about the comment RTG made to you about the game being good and the player got lucky? What about my other accounts Bryan. Why has RTG closed those accounts? what about the money in those accounts.

 

[eek]

Its pretty obvious from the earlier C21 thread that the game could be a big winner if you got onto a streak, some players (plural) had figured that out.

Pirate wasn't an isolated winner, other posters here were doing well on the game too.

The trouble is this guy went to $10k a hand, and got a $1.3 million payday.

wow.

Now you have the difficult bit Pirate...getting your winnings.

 

[thesmacker]

One thing that really bothers me here is that within the recorded phone conversations the casino operator offers the player between 25000-75000 to tell the so-called truth. Now if the casino really did have undisputable evidence that the player was in the wrong why would they offer him any money???? Seems a little fishy doesn't it??

 

[Pirateofc21]

Negative. You are rowing with one oar in the water. You haven't a clue to what has been transpiring except for P21's postings, and this recorded phone conversation.

Yet I've been privy to both sides. Yes, I heard the phone conversation at Sirius' site, but even so, I am convinced that this player committed fraud. You have heard the situation from the player's perspective. I have heard it from all three parties. Presently, I am not at liberty to discus this much further, but within the next few days I should be able to share more information with you all.

For the time being, P21 can rant and rave as much as he wants; he's sinking his own ship by doing so.



He approached me to find out what was happening. I acted as a conduit of information between the software provider and player, NOT the casino. I was merely giving him timelines for when the player's account may be reopened or when RTG would finish accessing their software audit. I too thought everything was honky dory until the player made some cryptic postings here which the casino looked into. His postings suggest hacking into the site/software...and it went on from there.

The player admitted to the casino that he used a robot/software program/whatever you want to call it. What the hell? I guess the casino should go back and retroactively change their T&Cs to allow robot play, and just pay the guy.

Jeeze Caruso, a casino has the right to either allow robot play or not, this is their preogative. If a player chooses to use his software on a casino that forbids this then he is SOL when his winnings get confiscated. Lest we forget, this player has already been paid by a number of casinos already who either a) didn't catch him or b) don't care that you use robots/software/whatever.

The irony of it all, if this guy would have just kept his mouth shut, he would be getting $4000 a week. If anybody screwed anyone it was the player screwing himself.

OK so I made some dumb mistakes. Why do you keep slamming me and calling me a fraud Bryan. I AM NOT A FRAUD AND THEY CANNOT PROVE ROBOT PLAY BECAUSE I DIDN't use one. It is not right for you to say I committed fraud. I didn't. Bryan please take me up on my offer to call me collect. I DID NOT USE A ROBOT OR SOFTWARE OF ANY KIND. Why are you so sure Bryan? You are wrong about me.

I DID NOT USE A ROBOT OR SOFTWARE OF ANY KIND. RTG CANNOT Proove this because I didn't use any. IF they could why haven't they come out with it .

You know what I tired of defending my self. What about my other balances Bryan. How is it legal for RTG to close those other accounts?

 

[eek]

Very fishy indeed.
As fishy, and as subtle, as an exploding whale.

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[GrandMaster]

Very fishy indeed.
As fishy, and as subtle, as an exploding whale.

Whales are mammals, so this is not the right analogy. Just being pedantic.

 

[cipher]

OK so I made some dumb mistakes. Why do you keep slamming me and calling me a fraud Bryan. I AM NOT A FRAUD AND THEY CANNOT PROVE ROBOT PLAY BECAUSE I DIDN't use one. It is not right for you to say I committed fraud. I didn't. Bryan please take me up on my offer to call me collect. I DID NOT USE A ROBOT OR SOFTWARE OF ANY KIND. Why are you so sure Bryan? You are wrong about me.

I DID NOT USE A ROBOT OR SOFTWARE OF ANY KIND. RTG CANNOT Proove this because I didn't use any. IF they could why haven't they come out with it .

You know what I tired of defending my self. What about my other balances Bryan. How is it legal for RTG to close those other accounts?

Now wait a minute, this slices one way and one way ONLY.

This is same crock of shi* that Virtual Casino came up with when I won $10,000.00 playing Blackjack. All they could say is that I had somehow figured out a way to mess with their random number generator. That was weak then and it's even weaker now. They'd better have something a lot stronger than that this time or they'll be paying the money period. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[caruso]

OK, I got a clear listen to the tape - I turned the volume right down and it seemed to stop it cutting out.

Basically, the casino manager offered him the possibility of a payoff between $25,000 and $75,000 for "honesty", ie. "You say what I want you to say and I'll bung you up to 75K". Presumably the idea was to get him on record saying he cheated. That's quite extraordinary.

Clearly there is no evidence, because if there WERE, the casino wouldn't be resorting to this contemptible bribery. They would be unmasking the "scammer".

Was this really the best RTG could come up with? Casino managers going on record bribing a player?

 

[caruso]

Really, Cipher? They said just that same thing to you? For a poxy 10K???

I don't believe this. This is sick.

 

[Pirateofc21]

Now wait a minute, this slices one way and one way ONLY.

This is same crock of shi* that Virtual Casino came up with when I won $10,000.00 playing Blackjack. All they could say is that I had somehow figured out a way to mess with their random number generator. That was weak then and it's even weaker now. They'd better have something a lot stronger than that this time or they'll be paying the money period. Have a good one.

Cipher

I am presently awaiting a call from the President of RTG. Remember that they have taken money from all my accounts.

 

[amandajm]

Pirate - what the hell are you doing calling yourself the pirate of cb21 and then be yapping about searching for missing ports?

I'm no RTG Shill and they suck and others won decent money on the game to it seems but you sir have well and truly put your foot in it.

Wrong Fuxxing move - Jeezuz have you annoyed me - 1.3 mill and you toss it away with trash talk?

Arrgh man I will never forget you sir.

 

[cipher]

Really, Cipher? They said just that same thing to you? For a poxy 10K???

I don't believe this. This is sick.

Correctomundo Caruso. And then came the the GOON they sent to my office from Vegas to try to get me to stop posting negative posts about them.

The only trouble was the MORON they sent did'nt have since enough to drive the right way on a one way and ended getting busted by no less than (5) of Visalia's finest on the way out of town. I've got to tell you I never seen such a sad look on a GOON'S face as when I drove up and had a nice little talk with the officer in charge about the visit this MORON had just paid to me at my office.

This whole thread is a total of seven pages and filled with nothing but VINTAGE RTG.

The funny thing is these clowns at RTG et al; are going to fool around with this just long enough to where this guy will have an opening to void the terms of payout agreement and be able to force the entire amount to be paid forthwith.

I've still got all of the stuff from the asset search that I had conducted on STAW's home as well as other PERSONAL AND CORPORATE holdings. This may prove to be very interesting. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[Casinomeister]

I've just spoken with RTG, and there will be more inquiries made. I've also just spoken with the player, and have advised him that lose lips sink ships. We should not be burning our bridges when there is so much at stake.

I don't like to be dissed, especially in my own forum, but this is what happens when emotions run high. In a case like this, perhaps there should be more evidence presented then what has at this point. I will retract what I said earlier about the player being a fraudster; not that it has been proven that he isn't, but because I need to see more.

So in other words, I'm starting from scratch, but for all parties involved (Pirateofc21), it's best that we tone it down a bit.

 

[amandajm]

Look forward to that Cipher.

Pirate came here of his own volition and spoke the magic words without RTG's help, prodding or whatever.

Will just have to wait to see what Bryan posts infowise in the near future.

 

[Pirateofc21]

I've just spoken with RTG, and there will be more inquiries made. I've also just spoken with the player, and have advised him that lose lips sink ships. We should not be burning our bridges when there is so much at stake.

I don't like to be dissed, especially in my own forum, but this is what happens when emotions run high. In a case like this, perhaps there should be more evidence presented then what has at this point. I will retract what I said earlier about the player being a fraudster; not that it has been proven that he isn't, but because I need to see more.

So in other words, I'm starting from scratch, but for all parties involved (Pirateofc21), it's best that we tone it down a bit.

Fair enough. Tone it down I will.

 

[cipher]

Look forward to that Cipher.

Pirate came here of his own volition and spoke the magic words without RTG's help, prodding or whatever.

Will just have to wait to see what Bryan posts infowise in the near future.

These "TAPES" have got to give you a very good insight as to how RTG plays these games. They tried the exact same thing with me. It didn't work then and it dosn't seem to have had the intended effect desired by the person recording these conversations now. However, if this matter is ultimately resolved through the courts here in the United States (and believe me jurisdiction is no longer a problem) Realtime Gaming will learn a very well deserved lesson incident to surreptitiously recording conversations, which is a felony here in the United States.

Lastly, it would be interesting to know if this person who was purportedly talking with and recording P21's conversation goes by the name of DANZEL, DANZIEL or ANGEL, ANGELICA. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[caps]

Fascinating stuff. One senses a potentially seminal event in the life story of beloved Real Time Gaming and its licensees. If this is a legitimate, honestly-played win, and if these guys are truly trying to thug their way out of it -- and, based upon the clip, it certainly seems that they are (though it must be remembered that the clip is only a portion of the conversation) -- then they deserve everything bad than can be imagined for them. If jurisdiction can be established in the United States, then the player would seem to have a variety of civil tort and other claims available to him (extortion, conversion, slander, breach of contract among others), and one has to believe that the criminal authorities couldn't help but be interested -- there is a large pack of them out there that would love to gut-punch a major online gambling software provider and its related operators. And if they're crooked here (Cipher's post is quite interesting in this regard), they would deserve every bit of it.

On the other hand, if the player is lying, he deserves every bit as much opprobrium -- if not more, for trying to use this forum as a lever.

I certainly hope the playing community will be kept in the loop on this.

 

[caruso]

Nice one, Bryan. WTG.

 

[Pirateofc21]

These "TAPES" have got to give you a very good insight as to how RTG plays these games. They tried the exact same thing with me. It didn't work then and it dosn't seem to have had the intended effect desired by the person recording these conversations now. However, if this matter is ultimately resolved through the courts here in the United States (and believe me jurisdiction is no longer a problem) Realtime Gaming will learn a very well deserved lesson incident to surreptitiously recording conversations, which is a felony here in the United States.

Lastly, it would be interesting to know if this person who was purportedly talking with and recording P21's conversation goes by the name of DANZEL, DANZIEL or ANGEL, ANGELICA. Have a good one.

Cipher

A felony. That is interesting since I did tell the manager that I was recording the conversation and he never once told me that he was recording on his end. Taped conversations are inadmissable in a court of law for that very reason.