Roulette Question

[funky_seagull]

Does anybody know how the random number generater on computerized online roulette produces the number/result.

Is there a simulation of the roulette wheel spinning round in the computers memory banks with the same layout as a traditional roulette wheel with the orphelins, voisins de zero, tiers de cylindre layout, and the server produces the result that the ball lands on in the invisible simulation, or visible....

or to put it in more basic language are the numbers being cycled through in a roulette random number generate the same sequence as in live roulette...

for example: the random generator randomly starts at zero, then has to cycle through the numbers in the order:

0,26,3,35,12,28,7,29,18,22,9,31,14,20,1,33,16,24,5,10,23,8,30,11,36,13,27,6,34,17,
25,2,21,4,19,15,32,0 etc...

it does this extremely fast and stops at any number in this sequence when the clock tells it to stop...

Or are the numbers just randomly selected from between 0 - 36. And the computer programme just selects the number but doesn't cycle through the sequence of numbers as laid out on a roulette table to get there... i.e numbers being next to each other on a real life roulette wheel has no relevance to RNG roulette ...15,32,0,26,3 etc etc...

(very difficult to put what I'm thinking into words, hope I don't confuse anyone.)

 

[KasinoKing]

Or are the numbers just randomly selected from between 0 - 36.

To the best of my knowledge this is the case.
I can't see any reason why the software people would want to think along lines any more complicated than that!

But I also can't see how would would make any difference either way though - if it's a random number, it's a random number - it doesn't matter how it was generated.

Why do you ask?

 

[D!G!TAL]

As far as I know the random number generator is an algorithm that continuously cycles through billions of numbers and when hit spin you are stopping that cycle.

When the cycle is stopped the software then assigns the number chosen to correspond with a number on the roulette wheel (or reel or card). This way the RNG doesn't have to be different for every game it can be the same generator with a different outcomes assigned to the different game results.

Regards, e.

 

[lots0]

As in all programming, there are always several different ways to do the same thing. So there really is not just one fixed way of generating a random number for a game.

There are different quality's of RNGs, some are not as "Random" as others and some are truly random but are huge wasters of CPU cycles.

Gambling requires a high level of "Randomness" along with low CPU usage, so most programmers often use what is called a 'pseudo-random number generator algorithm' (note the name "pseudo") which roughly means "to imitate", so you are not getting true random numbers, the numbers you are getting are not in fact "random" they just 'appear' to be random.

You might want to take a look at this site they have a perdy good explanation of how RNGs are generated.

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[GrandMaster]

The difference between true and pseudo rng's is less important than most people think. If it takes a billion year with the current level of knowledge and available computer power to crack the prng, it is good enough for practical purposes.

Random number generator can be implemented quite easily without needing much CPU. In any case, CPU usage is pretty irrelevant, as it will be running on the casino's server, and even an ordinary desktop PC can churn out millions of random numbers per second.

 

[lots0]

The difference between true and pseudo rng's is less important than most people think. If it takes a billion year with the current level of knowledge and available computer power to crack the prng, it is good enough for practical purposes.

I don't think anyone was discussing the difference between PRNG's (Pseudo-Random Number Generators) and TRNGs (True Random Number Generators).

The question was about how random numbers for an online roulette game are generated.

 

[funky_seagull]

To the best of my knowledge this is the case.
I can't see any reason why the software people would want to think along lines any more complicated than that!

But I also can't see how would would make any difference either way though - if it's a random number, it's a random number - it doesn't matter how it was generated.

Why do you ask?

Just curious. I am a bit obsessed with roulette at the moment.

On the roulette wheel certain numbers are next to each other. If you were wanting to bet on 1/6 of the roulette numbers, you would be better going for the ones next to each other, so that you have a true 1 in 6 chance of the ball landing on one of your numbers... the chances of this happening seem to work much better than they do if you bet on a double street as laid out on the part of the table where you place your bets. It is better to look for betting patterns on the actual wheel than on the table.

This is because the way the numbers are laid out on the table where you place your bets aren't the same layout as they are on the wheel. For example 1,2,3,4,5,6 isn't next to each other on the wheel. So if you wanted to give your 1 in 6 chance a better chance you would be better off placing a single bet on 6 numbers that are next to each other on the roulette wheel. Like 1,33,16,24,5,10.

The odds are still against you, but I find in live roulette I hit much more often using this strategy.

I was wondering if this would also apply to computerized roulette. But the only way this would work is if the random number generator cycles through the sequence of numbers in exactly the same way a roulette wheel does, and the random trigger, which can be pseudo-generated or true-generated tells it when to stop...

However if the RNG just spits out a random number between 1 - 36 without cycling through the numbers in the sequence as on a roulette wheel, then betting on numbers next to each other on the wheel would be pointless and you'd be better placing your bet on the streets.

There isn't a way to beat roulette. Roulette is a game of chance...The wheel has no memory of what has happened before. The same number has equal odds as any other number of appearing any number of times... and any one number has the odds of not appearing at all... and is why you shouldn't keep doubling up in the false assumption that number/colour/odd/even/high/low is due...

but you can find out ways to narrow the odds a little more in your favour... but you still need plenty of luck...

 

[winbig]

This is because the way the numbers are laid out on the table where you place your bets aren't the same layout as they are on the wheel. For example 1,2,3,4,5,6 isn't next to each other on the wheel. So if you wanted to give your 1 in 6 chance a better chance you would be better off placing a single bet on 6 numbers that are next to each other on the roulette wheel. Like 1,33,16,24,5,10.

The odds are still against you, but I find in live roulette I hit much more often using this strategy.

You might as well stop right there. _Any_ RNG used doesn't know the difference between a roulette wheel and a craps table. The only things a RNG knows are ones and zeros.

What you're describing for live roulette, is maybe playing at a '

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' wheel, where the game is not 100% random due to physical imperfections, not perfectly balanced, etc.

One of the few that have beaten roulette:

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[GrandMaster]

I don't think anyone was discussing the difference between PRNG's (Pseudo-Random Number Generators) and TRNGs (True Random Number Generators).

What were you referring to when you wrote "some are not as "Random" as others and some are truly random"?

 

[funky_seagull]

You might as well stop right there. _Any_ RNG used doesn't know the difference between a roulette wheel and a craps table. The only things a RNG knows are ones and zeros.

What you're describing for live roulette, is maybe playing at a '

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' wheel, where the game is not 100% random due to physical imperfections, not perfectly balanced, etc.

One of the few that have beaten roulette:

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Is ok I'm not looking for any bias. I play in a random way anyway. Just looking for different ways of betting based on patterns of numbers on the wheel to maybe help create better odds. It seems with rng roulette. That looking for actual patterns on the betting table instead of on the wheel is maybe the way to go. But with live roulette the reverse applies and looking for patterns on the actual wheel is the way to go.

 

[chipper1973]

Hi Funky,
Just play the "live" wheels dude, I wouldn't trust a RNG game of roulette EVER.....
To me they are nothing more than a slot.....


Good luck in your quest.....

 

[lots0]

What were you referring to when you wrote "some are not as "Random" as others and some are truly random"?

If you want to discuss the difference between true-random and pseudo-random numbers, we should start another thread and not hijack this one, as the discussion can get quite philosophical.

 

[Snake Eyes]

This is because the way the numbers are laid out on the table where you place your bets aren't the same layout as they are on the wheel. For example 1,2,3,4,5,6 isn't next to each other on the wheel. So if you wanted to give your 1 in 6 chance a better chance you would be better off placing a single bet on 6 numbers that are next to each other on the roulette wheel. Like 1,33,16,24,5,10.

The odds are still against you, but I find in live roulette I hit much more often using this strategy

The chances of hitting are exactly the same. The odds are still against you, because they're exactly the same.

This is, of course, as has been mentioned, not counting the possibility of a biased wheel.

 

[quber]

I see where Funky's coming from, on a physical wheel if you bet on Neighbours you are covering an area 5/37ths of the wheel, 2 adjoining neighbours would cover 10/37ths of the wheel so, on a physical wheel, as soon as you reached the first number any of the next ten would do you. If you played the same neighbours bets on a RNG you haven't got this area where any number will do. Therefore a neighbours bet on a RNG isn't as useful.

I know all odds are the same and nothing changes it is just a physical difference between real life and simulation.

 

[lots0]

Smart land based casino managers have reduced the effect of a "Biased Wheel" in Roulette by physically changing wheels on the tables on a regular basis.