Rizk Source of Wealth Bullshit!

[goatwack]

Meanwhile, the purse recently relieved off that kindly pensioner or that latest drug score could be frittered away at any of the local, convenient bookies at one's behest, no questions asked.

Just asking for a friend

 

[Deeplay]

And on a side note I need a very very very big fucking beer .........................................

 

[goatwack]

And on a side note I need a very very very big fucking beer .........................................

You got ID?

You know what these shopkeepers can be like!

 

[The Dude]

...@Casinomeister is this behavior of withholding payment (remember I am fully verified at Rizk and they gladly took over 2k in deposits only sending me the SOW after I went to withdraw ) is this in any way a breech of your own sites terms and conditions for accreditation here ?

...Simple fact is, Rizk have confiscated his funds with no lawful reason, surely they should be suspended from the accredited list, and if it group wide policy, then all of the GIG group should be too...

Actually, we are in uncharted waters at the moment. Our accreditation rules address confiscation of funds: "Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as “irregular playing patterns” or “bonus abuse”, without specific T&C violations." - we haven't tackled this bear yet - or this Sow. And I want to make sure that when we do, it is done the right way.

The best way to deal with this is with clear heads - I feel that this can be resolved, somehow. The casino is willing to pay if they get the information that they requesting. If there is anyway that this can be accomplished - I don't know yet.

The thing is, this is the first time we are dealing with this, and I am afraid this is only the beginning.

 

[Deeplay]

Actually, we are in uncharted waters at the moment. Our accreditation rules address confiscation of funds: "Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as “irregular playing patterns” or “bonus abuse”, without specific T&C violations." - we haven't tackled this bear yet - or this Sow. And I want to make sure that when we do, it is done the right way.

The best way to deal with this is with clear heads - I feel that this can be resolved, somehow. The casino is willing to pay if they get the information that they requesting. If there is anyway that this can be accomplished - I don't know yet.

The thing is, this is the first time we are dealing with this, and I am afraid this is only the beginning.

My mess aside I think your right this is only the beginning and will need to be incorporated in the future here somehow. In the end all I want is an easy life with out hassle but they are certain things I can not do to protect my own income and business. And sorry to say Rizk casino really really need to get there act together on the delivery method and storage of such information and to know exactly what information they can and can not request. Its messy right now very very messy. And i think they know it.

Beer Oclock.

 

[Slottery]

Trigger or not I dont launder money! its madness for them to even think that. But its the way they have requested the information ... and the lack of communication so damn slow at everything!

I have my 2016 2017 tax return in front of me now. Contains everything anyone would want to know about my income but guess what even that I suspect is not enough because they are wanting
a complete history of my paypal transactions which is ridiculous as they are 1000s of them over the years.

I bet that if your P60 from these years are in line with your spending at least somehow that there is no ML/RG points, these will be enough. There is clearly stated what have been your income from these years, what more can be requested.

Don't know how fast and much you need or want (sorry, i know you would want it already some time ago) that money but challenging them would be interesting, happen in what ever instance, PBA, IBAS or even most interesting, small court (where this ever don't end and for sure after all you get your money and that day they owe you big apologies, doesn't matter how much they tried to fill their social responsibilities by checking if you have enough money to play in that level and where is coming from). You mentioned that you call to UKGC on Monday, nice to hear what is their opinion how their rulings should be proceed. or even most interesting, small court. It really just seems that you get replies where nobody haven't look this scenario as a big picture and putting all together but just "following orders".

It's pity that some operator is so scared about possible sanctions that this kind of overreacting will happen, i'm sure that Rizk/GIG could survive without your £800 pounds and some people closing their accounts from them, but just this "professionalism" how this has been handled is..... can't really find the word but you all know.

 

[mack341]

This is an infuriating situation for Deeplay, extra galling that you have met the rizk rep personally and shared a pint. Maybe if it were only his decision it would be resolved.

This SOW business has become kafkaesque with casinos wanting dated proofs and details of inheritance or gifts. It's as though they're trying to make it as difficult as possible, so your bound to have some information missing they claim is vital.

 

[Deeplay]

I bet that if your P60 from these years are in line with your spending at least somehow that there is no ML/RG points, these will be enough. There is clearly stated what have been your income from these years, what more can be requested.
.

it is not just about the P60 I have a tax return very clear ... from 2017 which shows what i earn its mad i need to even prove this!

But they also want no demand FULL transaction history from Paypal which is my billing agent which I wont give.

I have sent some very limited screenshots to Rizk Rep which show him my dilemma and why the system they are using is not effective and would actually border on being illegal depending on what is requested.

No one in there right mind would share full paypal history which includes first and last name of clients along with email addresses and in many cases home addresses. I would loose my fucking right to process through Paypal.

So either Captain Rizk sees what im trying to say or he dont. Maybe this will work maybe it wont .. but its all i can give without loosing my job.

Which tells me the whole system is at the moment flawed on this . No one persons situation is the same. And for those of us self employed we dont get a neat payslip every month. And income varies greatly at times.

 

[goatwack]

One would hope in time casinos get their act together and narrow the requirements down to a universal, precise method.

Of course we'll see many more of these cases surface in the next few years, it's going to take some casinos to take a hit - one for the team- via yet another UKGC blindsided fine to ascertain what it is the UKGC is actually looking for

Call them pioneers, if you will

 

[Chipkin9]

And on a side note I need a very very very big fucking beer .........................................

Let's hope the Barman doesn't ask you for your SoW to see that you are buying that beer with legitimate money; otherwise you will be going thirsty

 

[lockinlove]

I suggest Rizk return all deposits since this has been implemented. Or at the very least the 2500 euro they accepted this week. This is essentially freerolling the player. We will take your deposits no problem but if you win, here we come with our compliance team and outrageous demands.

Rizk should be taking into consideration the account history of the player and length too.

If none of the above are followed, I feel they should lose their accreditation at the very least.

I commend deeplay for not bending over and giving them all this personal info and protecting your clients. Alot of gamblers here have already provided some sites with too much info so its nice to see someone taking a stance.

I understand where Bryan is coming from that this is new waters. But remember, they accepted 2500 euro without an issue.

 

[goatwack]

Let's hope the Barman doesn't ask you for your SoW to see that you are buying that beer with legitimate money; otherwise you will be going thirsty

They're quite thorough where he shops; they know Deeplay is attempting to launder because of his constant use of Monopoly money

 

[Deeplay]

Someone from the UKGC could well do with reading this thread as is it clearly exposes some massive holes in this whole can of maggots. And this whole issue with SOW is only the start as Brian pointed out. A shit storm is coming which will make the "I self excluded but they let me deposit again" era seem like Christmas!

 

[brianmon]

It's THEIR systems which are flawed. They're basically trying to cover their arse at Deeplays expense. Since all of this should have happened at the deposit stage, and they KNOW that.

They're holding his withdrawal to ransom, because they haven't got the correct procedures in place.

I wouldn't even be surprised if, should they finally accept the documents he's sent, those documents are 're-dated' to cover up the situation.

If they were to get fined by the UKGC, it could conceivably be for not requesting proof of income, BEFORE accepting any deposit, as much as for not requesting anything at all

 

[BillyGoldblum]

I could maybe understand if this was a case of them requesting documents and a player refusing.

It isnt.

They accepted a large amount of deposits this week. They admitted awhile ago their system is flawed and they would work on fixing it. They did not. This falls on them and not the player.

They need to refund the 2500e he deposited this week.

 

[Deeplay]

I suggest Rizk return all deposits since this has been implemented. Or at the very least the 2500 euro they accepted this week. This is essentially freerolling the player. We will take your deposits no problem but if you win, here we come with our compliance team and outrageous demands.

Rizk should be taking into consideration the account history of the player and length too.

If none of the above are followed, I feel they should lose their accreditation at the very least.

I commend deeplay for not bending over and giving them all this personal info and protecting your clients. Alot of gamblers here have already provided some sites with too much info so its nice to see someone taking a stance.

I understand where Bryan is coming from that this is new waters. But remember, they accepted 2500 euro without an issue.

Correct they did accept approx £2500 (GBP not euros ) and before then were happy to up my DL. No complaints there I know my own limits and I know when I tilt which is rare but it does happen. But its my money my life.
My problem is not so much with casinos needing to comply its a problem that what they are asking for puts ME out of compliance with the rules I have to follow in my own industry. And aside with that the very nature of the intrusion.

Also Rizk compliance were looking at this as if its just one flat picture its not. They take XXX Amount on paypal and then say WOW you earned a shit load more than you disclosed to us on our SOW form.

Yes i did , natually its called GROSS earnings which will always differ from Net. but they failed to see this. And there responses have been slow, robot like and without any understanding of how to deal with people.
They have lost a player who for what ever reason decided (and had the means ) to spend £2500 in there "shop" in less than 24 hours. Not a bad customer to have dont you think!

I have sent the rep here some very limited screenshots which explains fully my dilemma and shows a direct electronic trail from source to paypal. I cant even believe im writing this ... Privacy is truly dead
and Rizk remember want all of this sent via INSECURE EMAIL ...................

Question will you send me your bank account details and last 200 transactions and where they came from ? please just pop it in an email and zip it over to me ... thanks ?

All Casinos need to sit up and listen to what is being said here!

 

[Slottery]

it is not just about the P60 I have a tax return very clear ... from 2017 which shows what i earn its mad i need to even prove this!

But they also want no demand FULL transaction history from Paypal which is my billing agent which I wont give.

Then it start be even more strange, P60 (if you have sent it to them) in my understanding tells really clear what you have earned, paid taxes etc.... If that's can't be counted as official document, which can then.... Just for me it would be much more official than hundreds or thousands Paypall transactions which cannot proove if taxes of these earnings are paid or not.....

If you haven't yet sent you P60 and you have them front of you, i would send them as a final word, proof from government what are your incomes from these years where you have legally paid taxes for so these are really hard to judge to be anything else than very clean money, if you get accused that you are trying to ML funds from your own bank account back to your bank account and taxes from these are paid and approved by government, then i don't what to think anymore.

Really feel you mate and if this going to be even near like this, i have feeling that many operators who hold also MGA license and UK is no real core market, just cease business there IF these demands are coming from UKGC or other instance you have to waist fcking much resources to monitor everything and as a market UK is not bringing in enough big percent from your income after licensed, taxes and this sh*t.... As been spoken here in many topics, many MGA operators have other countries as core markets where more bonuses and other goodies are thrown and now getting hit to player base because of this SOW, could imagine that some small operators raise hands up for UK as it's already challenging market to compete with local big boys, new bonus and marketing rules plus this is hard to take for many and maybe not financially profitable anymore.

Only this case has been ongoing quite long time, i bet that these managers who need to review these kind of issues (as these for sure are not sorted within support people) have at least soon spent more time than this £800 in question is to get these kind of tasks top of normal daily duties. I bet that this and some to follow were just catch in their pants down as they thought that everybody are just happy to share everything requested, nothing different to KYC (and in future it might be that way, but this beginning not seem to be easy when nobody don't seem to know what to do)

 

[dealer wins]

And on a side note I need a very very very big fucking beer .........................................

You probably will have to fill out a lifestyle and drinking checklist, and provide a liver scan taken within the last 3 months, and full SOW and account history so the shop can make sure you havnt been overspending on alcohol

 

[Chipkin9]

I could maybe understand if this was a case of them requesting documents and a player refusing.

It isnt.

They accepted a large amount of deposits this week. They admitted awhile ago their system is flawed and they would work on fixing it. They did not. This falls on them and not the player.

They need to refund the 2500e he deposited this week.

Yea definitely. Fuck the £800 withdrawal. Go and get your deposits returned Deeplay.

If they won't comply with processing your withdrawal, then go and get the lot back; you paid for a service that didn't deliver. Pretty simple to me. And no-one can have any qualms with that course of action!

I imagine you will be closing your account there anyway.

While chargebacks are frowned upon, I feel in this case it should be encouraged.

 

[brianmon]

Then it start be even more strange, P60 (if you have sent it to them) in my understanding tells really clear what you have earned, paid taxes etc.... If that's can't be counted as official document, which can then.... Just for me it would be much more official than hundreds or thousands Paypall transactions which cannot proove if taxes of these earnings are paid or not.....

If you haven't yet sent you P60 and you have them front of you, i would send them as a final word, proof from government what are your incomes from these years where you have legally paid taxes for so these are really hard to judge to be anything else than very clean money, if you get accused that you are trying to ML funds from your own bank account back to your bank account and taxes from these are paid and approved by government, then i don't what to think anymore.

Really feel you mate and if this going to be even near like this, i have feeling that many operators who hold also MGA license and UK is no real core market, just cease business there IF these demands are coming from UKGC or other instance you have to waist fcking much resources to monitor everything and as a market UK is not bringing in enough big percent from your income after licensed, taxes and this sh*t.... As been spoken here in many topics, many MGA operators have other countries as core markets where more bonuses and other goodies are thrown and now getting hit to player base because of this SOW, could imagine that some small operators raise hands up for UK as it's already challenging market to compete with local big boys, new bonus and marketing rules plus this is hard to take for many and maybe not financially profitable anymore.

Only this case has been ongoing quite long time, i bet that these managers who need to review these kind of issues (as these for sure are not sorted within support people) have at least soon spent more time than this £800 in question is to get these kind of tasks top of normal daily duties. I bet that this and some to follow were just catch in their pants down as they thought that everybody are just happy to share everything requested, nothing different to KYC (and in future it might be that way, but this beginning not seem to be easy when nobody don't seem to know what to do)

AFAIK, it all stems from an EU directive, It's not a UKGC only thing.
So even the MGA (only) licensed casinos will have to follow it sooner or later.
It's just that the UKGC has pushed things though faster. Probably faster than they needed to, or should have.

 

[lockinlove]

Correct they did accept approx £2500 (GBP not euros ) and before then were happy to up my DL. No complaints there I know my own limits and I know when I tilt which is rare but it does happen. But its my money my life.
My problem is not so much with casinos needing to comply its a problem that what they are asking for puts ME out of compliance with the rules I have to follow in my own industry. And aside with that the very nature of the intrusion.

Also Rizk compliance were looking at this as if its just one flat picture its not. They take XXX Amount on paypal and then say WOW you earned a shit load more than you disclosed to us on our SOW form.

Yes i did , natually its called GROSS earnings which will always differ from Net. but they failed to see this. And there responses have been slow, robot like and without any understanding of how to deal with people.
They have lost a player who for what ever reason decided (and had the means ) to spend £2500 in there "shop" in less than 24 hours. Not a bad customer to have dont you think!

I have sent the rep here some very limited screenshots which explains fully my dilemma and shows a direct electronic trail from source to paypal. I cant even believe im writing this ... Privacy is truly dead
and Rizk remember want all of this sent via INSECURE EMAIL ...................

Question will you send me your bank account details and last 200 transactions and where they came from ? please just pop it in an email and zip it over to me ... thanks ?

All Casinos need to sit up and listen to what is being said here!

I suppose at this point you need to figure what option you have left since Rizk has given you their final answer it seems.

Hope Bryan interjects and gives them an ultimatum?
PAB? (although I feel the outcome would be rizk claiming compliance)
Write a letter to the UKGC, filing a complaint, explaining they took your money but wouldnt pay upon withdraw and maybe link them to some threads?

They may seem senseless but you never know.

I guess its open season on players and looks like Bryan is going to have some work ahead of him with reforming accreditation. Maybe stating casinos need to request this info upon deposits if their policy is UK customer wide.

Funny thing is. We all know why they dont do it on deposits. Because they know most players just want to log on, deposit and play. If they suddenly require proof of income etc on deposit, no one will play there. So this way they get the customers money, they stay afloat and have the chance at screwing players who got $50 from their grandmother for their birthday and cant prove it.

The way Rizk is handling this situation is shocking to say the least. There is absolutely no reason to not accept what you have given them, review your history as a player, admit their own faults and pay one time stating any future action will require you meeting their requests. I guess they need 800 pounds this bad.

 

[interlog]

Can't believe what I am reading.

I managed to get paid eventually despite point blank refusing the documents that they requested. Why not pay the OP @Captain Rizk just like you paid me after you found out that it was YOU (as the casino) that encouraged me to deposit (it was an email by your VIP team).

Same applies in this case. @Deeplay asked for his deposit limits to be increased. You should have done your due diligence checks then, not on withdrawal. You should have not allowed for him to increase the limit if you suspected him to launder money or had suspicion he could not afford to gamble. But no, YOU were more than happy to accept the deposits. Had the OP not withdrawn the money, YOU would have accepted another deposit, and another one, and another one.

Disgusting behaviour by Rizk. Should be in the rogue pit in my opinion.

 

[colinsunderland]

Actually, we are in uncharted waters at the moment. Our accreditation rules address confiscation of funds: "Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as “irregular playing patterns” or “bonus abuse”, without specific T&C violations." - we haven't tackled this bear yet - or this Sow. And I want to make sure that when we do, it is done the right way.

The best way to deal with this is with clear heads - I feel that this can be resolved, somehow. The casino is willing to pay if they get the information that they requesting. If there is anyway that this can be accomplished - I don't know yet.

The thing is, this is the first time we are dealing with this, and I am afraid this is only the beginning.

I know its not easy, but the casino have been very clear they won't pay him unless he provides documents he is saying he can't. Its the same as the affiliate question I asked, where Captain Risk said it was a good point, and didn't know the answer. If casino staff don't know, then why exactly are they accepting deposits from players, knowing full well they might not pay them out?

An easy way to start off is to ask the rep, exactly which law or part of their T&C's allow them to withhold funds indefinitely in a situation like this. Obviously if what they are doing is legitimate, then they will be able to link to the law or section of their T&C's that allow it. If they can't then that pretty much proves it isn't, and certainly, in my view, falls under the section of your terms you quote above.

These are the terms relating to this from Rizk

1. The company complies with Maltese, UK and European laws, regulations and guidelines for the prevention of money laundering and the funding of terrorism. Suspicious transactions shall be investigated by the company and, if necessary, a suspicious transaction report will be made by the company to the competent Maltese Authorities. In any such event, the company is prohibited from informing any players or third parties involved, save in limited circumstances, that an investigation is being or may be carried out, or that information has been or may be transmitted to the competent Authorities. Furthermore, in the event of any suspicious transactions, the company may suspend, block or close the account(s) of the relevant player(s) and withhold funds as may be required by law and/or by the competent Authorities.

It is clear they can ONLY withhold funds as stated above, so linking to the law should be easy in this case. However, despite being asked to numerous times, they haven't. Wonder why that is. For some reason it seems as though they can't notify UK authorities according to their T&C's which is strange.

Even if they do pay Deeplay, it shouldn't be closed, as there will be a lot of other players in the same boat who don't get paid. As has been shown in this thread, it has been ongoing since January at least.

 

[Deeplay]

Well no more response from Rizk ... so thats it for the weekend ... a full week gone - no withdraw. Im surprised really there has not been more input here from the casino. I can only imagine how all over this thread for example Video Slots would have been. One thing though they could not even guarantee that if I did send a P60 it would be enough ... not realizing that if self employed for years you dont have a P60 basic understanding of the different working sectors in the UK would be helpful and also an understanding of GROSS versus NET when looking at "figures" neither of which Rizk have shown any understanding of. And we are supposed to trust our private information with them ?

Just pasting again Rizks response to my questions for everyone to read.

We kindly request that you provide additional documents which can support your income. Your latest P60 form would possibly be sufficient and we also request a full statement of your Paypal account, not only one which shows total transactions in.

====

So they are not even sure themselves if a document would suffice or not which begs the question do they need documents that are really not required. The feeling I get they dont have a clue what they are asking for and have no understanding of Paypal. Full statement ? of what all the past years I have traded with them ? probably 2000 pages long ... what do I do print them all out or do screen shot of each page then blank out the names of the 1000s of customers who I have had over the years ?

I will let members make there own minds up on the above. But I would be careful at the moment in depositing at Rizk and I really hope you dont get the SOW bullshit from them.

And final note before I head of into the night if Rizk think I will go quiet on this they will need to think again. That is in no way a threat just a statement from a regular man who will exercise his right at free speech. When ever and where ever he can. And I still think the rep here is a decent person even though he cant help me with this and the casino he represents have refused to pay what is "legally" mine.

 

[nutnut]

I like the Rizk admin, he clearly is a nice guy and very helpful to the community. But if you remove the personal feelings from this situation it is simply THEFT.

Lets pretend this is a new casino called Boogie Casino, you deposit large amounts, and lose...........then win a small amount back the £800 in question then they ask for all this information. The simple fact is everyone would say they're rogue.
No where or anywhere else do they ask for that sort of information and more to the point they are legally not abliged to ask for THAT much specific personal information.

The rep can say these new rules means they have no choice but that is pure BS, cause why is every other casino not doing the same.

It's simply pure theft, and no one should touch this casino after this.

 

[nutnut]

Can't believe what I am reading.

I managed to get paid eventually despite point blank refusing the documents that they requested. Why not pay the OP @Captain Rizk just like you paid me after you found out that it was YOU (as the casino) that encouraged me to deposit (it was an email by your VIP team).

Same applies in this case. .

If what you say is true, then they clearly pick and choose when to bend the rules, is that even legal since they claim they have no choice.....yet in your case they had a choice?

 

[Jasminebed]

I'm hoping you are willing to submit you tax return Deeplay. It's terrible enough as a business owner to do your books and taxes for the government, the idea of having to do that in more depth for a casino is abhorrent.

If Rizk is not willing to accept that as proof/source of income, but the government is, that is outrageous.

 

[goatwack]

With a bit of tact and common sense, Rizk could have avoided this car crash. But based on their continuing to take deposits, stall, and unreasonable personal demands for documents that likely make no difference, they deserve quite a bit of flak for this.

Gotta realize trust works both ways, and not drop players like a hot potato when it suits.....

 

[interlog]

If what you say is true, then they clearly pick and choose when to bend the rules, is that even legal since they claim they have no choice.....yet in your case they had a choice?

I am not sure what exactly made them pay, but I guess they had no choice after I was encouraged to make a deposit by their VIP department by being offered a bonus.

At the end of the day, any suspicion about money laundering and/or responsible gambling issues should never be exclusive to be triggered on withdrawals only. And that appears to be the case with me, and now with Deeplay.

At least with Videoslots, the Source of Wealth requests came "out of the blue" and not during withdrawal stage.

 

[nutnut]

I am not sure what exactly made them pay, but I guess they had no choice after I was encouraged to make a deposit by their VIP department by being offered a bonus.

At the end of the day, any suspicion about money laundering and/or responsible gambling issues should never be exclusive to be triggered on withdrawals only. And that appears to be the case with me, and now with Deeplay.

Clearly they do have a choice, because you DIDN'T provide the information they asked, so in theory they have broke the new rules and regulations and could have allowed you to money launder(if you was that way!) which is how much in fines?

On one hand they can't bend the rules for Deeplay but can for Interlog. Can the casino clear up how you get special treatment? Do you have to have a I in your name? curly hair? wear pink socks?

P.S Not a dig at you Interlog just pointing out how ridiculous the casino is being.

 

[Reelsoffun]

I really hope that everyone here and anyone else that stumbles on these shenanigans completely boycotts this casino for the time being as a show of our disgust of deeplay's situation, no hope in hell I will join this casino for this reason.

 

[lockinlove]

With a bit of tact and common sense, Rizk could have avoided this car crash. But based on their continuing to take deposits, stall, and unreasonable personal demands for documents that likely make no difference, they deserve quite a bit of flak for this.

Gotta realize trust works both ways, and not drop players like a hot potato when it suits.....

It's true. And lets not forget they are even stealing his deposit too.

This is truly theft. And finding someone guilty until proven is ridiculous.

I see Rizk doing themselves way more harm than good. Terrible publicity. Remember the people who are posting in here arent the only ones. Tonnes of people lurk this forum. When something blows up here it ends up everywhere else. Twitch and other forums. I have seen it for myself. They are also asking to get fined no? Because they have admitted to taking deposit after deposit after deposit without requesting anything. But only upon a later withdraw request.

I see no way these guys arent in the rogue pit after this. Not because of the request of documents but how they have went about it is clearly shady and unreasonable beyond any means. If we got to vote if a casino should be kicked out of being accredited. I would suspect the votes would be 100% to yes (well 99% because 1% would be the no vote from the rep )

Hopefully when the casino is back to work next week, I come here and read that his deposits have been returned. I know alot of the reps strategy here when something blows up is to hope it just blows over and people carry on with their lives. I hope that doesnt become the case here.

 

[goatwack]

I still don't think the information requested is as much as they claim. The UKGC would probably settle for a lot less fanfare and drama.

Problem is casinos are being over- cautious, and so ask for everything. But in this specific case they've shown it's more than just simply 'proof'. They already know the player. Coupled with no definitive 'This will suffice/ this won't' and Deeplay doesn't know what bloody day it is!

Stalling, pure and simple. But citing AML, whilst taking people's hard- earned money

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[lockinlove]

I still don't think the information requested is as much as they claim. The UKGC would probably settle for a lot less fanfare and drama.

Problem is casinos are being over- cautious, and so ask for everything. But in this specific case they've shown it's more than just simply 'proof'. They already know the player. Coupled with no definitive 'This will suffice/ this won't' and Deeplay doesn't know what bloody day it is!

Stalling, pure and simple. But citing AML, whilst taking people's hard- earned money

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It is for sure in my mind. One of the casinos sent me one by accident, cant remember who. But it was quick form asking me how I made my money. There were about 5 options to choose from. Work, inheritance, selling items, stock market or other investments. I ticked work. Then asked how much I made per year and had different income brackets. I chose one of them.

I sent it off and it was approved because it wasnt invasive at all. I was later told that it was sent out by accident and was only meant for UK players or something like that and it was a new request because of the UKGC new policy.

So that was acceptable. But now casinos are pretending they need the names and fingerprints of your entire family tree. Pictures of the hospital you were born in and quite possibly the receipt from the date night that led to us being conceived. Come on.

 

[brianmon]

I see Rizk doing themselves way more harm than good. Terrible publicity. Remember the people who are posting in here arent the only ones. Tonnes of people lurk this forum. When something blows up here it ends up everywhere else. Twitch and other forums. I have seen it for myself. They are also asking to get fined no? Because they have admitted to taking deposit after deposit after deposit without requesting anything. But only upon a later withdraw request.

I think a lot of reps forget about that.
At this moment in time there have been 92 members visit the CM site, and 458 Guests and that's just today

 

[colinsunderland]

No funds have been confiscated and as i stated above we are working with Deeplay to try to find a resolution.

So 48 hours later, you haven't bothered posting since to answer a single question on the thread, Deeplay has been told you won't be paying him (which sounds a lot like confiscation to me), and your resolution you were working towards seems to have been, do what we originally told you or we won't pay you.
Feel free to correct the parts I have wrong.

 

[mcgameboy]

@Deeplay I know this is frowned upon on here, but I would either chargeback my transactions since my last withdrawal as you have paid for a service and the retailer has not provided it, or do a LBA for the same amount and start court proceedings in 7 days. They will not win in court, I am 100% sure of that, as they have no legal basis to do this. I would probably go with the court option first though.

Charge back or take legal action, you say above you have a tax doc, this would be enough to prove your earnings per year & its legal as well , you could use that.

Yea definitely. Fuck the £800 withdrawal. Go and get your deposits returned Deeplay.

If they won't comply with processing your withdrawal, then go and get the lot back; you paid for a service that didn't deliver. Pretty simple to me. And no-one can have any qualms with that course of action!

I imagine you will be closing your account there anyway.

While chargebacks are frowned upon, I feel in this case it should be encouraged.

I'm sorry guys, but I think this is very bad advice you are giving to Deeplay. Two wrongs don't make a right.

And please don't think I am siding with the casino, because I am not. The way Deeplay has been treated is nothing short of scandalous. If I was on the receiving end of this kind of treatment, I would be very, very angry indeed.

But I don't see charging back as the best course of action to solving D's problem here.
The best thing he can do is to make full use of every legal avenue available to him, if needed.

FWIW, I do agree with something that Chipkin said, if he does take legal action, he should go all out for the full £2,500, not the £800.
Granting a player's request to raise his/her deposit limits one day, only to then reject a withdrawal the next day is shady at best, totally rogue at worst.

I have read this thread with a great deal of interest and I have to say this whole episode is actually pretty disheartening.
Rizk was one of my favourite casinos to play at, now I'm wondering if I have been a complete fool for trusting them and speaking highly of them in the past.
To say that I am bitterly disappointed is an understatement.

 

[Chipkin9]

I'm sorry guys, but I think this is very bad advice you are giving to Deeplay. Two wrongs don't make a right.

And please don't think I am siding with the casino, because I am not. The way Deeplay has been treated is nothing short of scandalous. If I was on the receiving end of this kind of treatment, I would be very, very angry indeed.

But I don't see charging back as the best course of action to solving D's problem here.
The best thing he can do is to make full use of every legal avenue available to him, if needed.

FWIW, I do agree with something that Chipkin said, if he does take legal action, he should go all out for the full £2,500, not the £800.
Granting a player's request to raise his/her deposit limits one day, only to then reject a withdrawal the next day is shady at best, totally rogue at worst.

I have read this thread with a great deal of interest and I have to say this whole episode is actually pretty disheartening.
Rizk was one of my favourite casinos to play at, now I'm wondering if I have been a complete fool for trusting them and speaking highly of them in the past.

Hmmm I dunno mate.

He paid for a service that he didn't receive. Imagine paying for something off Amazon and then them telling you, well "You'll need to send us you SoW before we can ship your package, but don't worry we'll hold your money until you provide us with it".

I mean under what circumstances would a chargeback not be frowned upon? If this isn't it I don't know what is, so I don't think it's bad advice at all. Rizk are flat out abusing the UKGC guidelines on how to approach AML and using it to not only stall on payouts to legitimate players, but outright withhold them.

Okay he has the legal route, but at how much cost to Deeplay? I think the chargeback option is the best one, and like I said I know people aren't fond of it, but there are times when it is a necessary and justified.

Just my opinion on it anyway.

Just to add, I know you like Rizk; but when will they come for you? They have done the same to Interlog already

 

[mcgameboy]

Hmmm I dunno mate.

He paid for a service that he didn't receive. Imagine paying for something off Amazon and then them telling you, well "You'll need to send us you SoW before we can ship your package, but don't worry we'll hold your money until you provide us with it".

I mean under what circumstances would a chargeback not be frowned upon? If this isn't it I don't know what is, so I don't think it's bad advice at all. Rizk are flat out abusing the UKGC guidelines on how to approach AML and using it to not only stall on payouts to legitimate players, but outright withhold them.

Okay he has the legal route, but at how much cost to Deeplay? I think the chargeback option is the best one, and like I said I know people aren't fond of it, but there are times when it is a necessary and justified.

Just my opinion on it anyway.

OK, perhaps I should not have said "bad advice", I probably should have said "not the best advice" instead.
FWIW, I'm not saying that charging back is not an option, I just don't think it's the BEST option. My concern would be that by charging back, he could succeed in sealing one can of worms, only to end up opening another can. Which could make an already unpleasant situation even worse.

Does charging back put Deeplay at risk of appearing on a "negative database"? Would being on that database have any negative repercussions for his employment? Obviously, I don't know what Deeplay's line of employment is and frankly it's none of my business.
Also, I can't (and won't) claim to know everything or indeed anything about these things, but he owes it to himself to at least explore/test out the safer options first. And I don't think charging back is the safest option available. If I am wrong, I'm more than happy to be corrected.

The UKGC has it's fair share of critics (and I am one of them), but I know one thing, they did help a CM member (Richy) achieve a resolution to a no pay problem he was having with a casino. So I think it might be worth going to them first.

Don't get me wrong, if D were to basically take a stand and say "FU Rizk, two can play that game", I'd be more likely to applaud him than to criticise him. I know in the same situation, I would be VERY tempted to do the exact same thing, because if I were to be treated like this, my blood would boil and then some.

The thing is, I am not self-employed, Deeplay is. And I just wonder if that makes a difference. I just don't know. For me, it's a dilemma.

 

[Nicola]

Can't stress enough that chargebacks should never be used in this situation. Having worked 5+ years in fraud ops in Malta, when you make a chargeback against the casino it will affect your ability to deposit at other casinos as you will be added to a internal database which is shared amongst operators. Secondly, you risk a visit from the police and other authorities.

What Deeplay has been through this week is nothing short of disgusting and as it's now the weekend, will sadly have to endure further delays. You are not alone with this issue, there are literally dozens I know of that have had deposits / withdrawals frozen in the last couple of weeks. A serious issue which will no doubt lead to repercussions to Rizk and other well-known operators.

Another problem now is that eCOGRA and IBAS are not dealing with this type of complaint either. Instead, you get a e-mail back within 24 hours telling you to sort it out yourself.

Glad I'm off work until Monday!

 

[Deeplay]

Can't stress enough that chargebacks should never be used in this situation. Having worked 5+ years in fraud ops in Malta, when you make a chargeback against the casino it will affect your ability to deposit at other casinos as you will be added to a internal database which is shared amongst operators. Secondly, you risk a visit from the police and other authorities.

What Deeplay has been through this week is nothing short of disgusting and as it's now the weekend, will sadly have to endure further delays. You are not alone with this issue, there are literally dozens I know of that have had deposits / withdrawals frozen in the last couple of weeks. A serious issue which will no doubt lead to repercussions to Rizk and other well-known operators.

Another problem now is that eCOGRA and IBAS are not dealing with this type of complaint either. Instead, you get a e-mail back within 24 hours telling you to sort it out yourself.

Glad I'm off work until Monday!

Yep it is disgusting and they make you feel like a criminal. I will personally never deposit again at any Casinos operated under MT Secure Trade. I dont ask others to do the same I am just stating what I wont do. This is turning into a major shit storm. The rep from Rizk has been back in touch, and is looking for a solution. But they should not even need to look for a solution. A true shit storm is to descend in the coming few months as I am just the first wave of what is to come.

 

[ladyhawke]

There has been a few mentions of providing a P60 as evidence of SOW. I always thought a P60 was only provided by employer for an employee, so self-employed people such as Deeplay would not have a P60, or am I mistaken?

 

[ladyhawke]

I guess its open season on players ...

So...deposits are willingly accepted.

But withdrawals? Go ahead punk. Try it and make my day.

Like so many of you, I am very angry at what is not only a deeply flawed regulation, but the interpretation of said regulations. Whatever, the end result is the same - the player is fucked.

No restrictions or checks on deposits (other than those that the player themselves wish to implement), which is farcical as surely the source of funds is where the real money laundering is occurring?

However attempt to withdraw, and every last bit of personal financial information has to be supplied or the withdrawal request will be refused. And not only that, but the deposits themselves will be retained.

In these instances, player are freerolling the casino, without any obvious recourse to official channels to overturn the decision.

Perhaps in time, the situation will resolve itself, but that probably won't help anyone caught in this nightmare right now.

In fact, all we have to look forward to at the moment is, and I will quote @Chipkin here, "When will they come for you?"

And all this just because we want to have a bit of fun.

 

[mack341]

I'm new around these parts, though a guest lurker for about a year, so not sure if the following proposal is practical or has any merit but would it be possible for a tally chart to be created that could track the number of total SOW requests received by CM members by casino, with a further breakdown option of 'on deposit' 'on withdrawal' This might give the consumer a bit of power back and make the casinos wary of going down the path they seem to be heading. [ obviously not every casino could be charted as it would be too big, but perhaps the top 20 by size]

 

[Harry_BKK]

Just want to say this again.

In my high times, i deposited and LOST EUR500K with NOT a single withdrawal, that is half a mil taken without as much as a blink of an eye (nearly 100% at only one casino group). Was never asked for KYC or SOW back then (2000 - 2002).

I know the regulations were different, but my point is that it shows that it is in the DNA of gambling operators not to ask too many questions or even any at all as to where the money is coming from as long as it keeps flowing into one direction only. And now comes the UKGC with regulation after regulation, AML, RG, etc. etc. ..... BOOM.

Casinos are in the business of taking money, not caring where it is coming from. It will take quite some time to change that attitude / DNA.

Sometimes, I wonder now what would have happened if I would have tried to withdraw a big win.

 

[blackhole]

made a mistake

 

[blackhole]

I know I don’t post much here, but found this thread interesting being directed to the issue by a Casinomeister pm.

I understand the money laundering concerns, especially when online casinos with no doubt could be considered a 24/7 laundromat. In my opinion, the rules and regulations for this type of trigger need to be openly available explaining what type of transactions would be considered suspicious and require additional income verification's for any punter to read prior to making any deposits.

In the USA, financial transactions can trigger Suspicious Activity Reports, (SAR) or Suspicious Transaction Reports, (STR) which would be reported to the Department of Treasury for further investigation. It is well known in the USA that 10k or more in cash transactions will trigger a report. Of course, moving cash amounts just under the 10k limit often are no different, leaving the financial institution the option to report anything they might consider suspicious.

Winners of 10K or more in land casinos will never go to the window with more than 10k in chips. Either they make several different trips or use friends to help them cash out. (Of course, slot jackpots are all recorded) The big boys known as whales are obviously treated differently.

Although these rules in the USA can vary, we have at least some type of outline of what could trigger issues. This 10K thing is old news here but never changed. Everyone knows 10K today is not the same as 10/20 years ago.

I find it extremely unfair if online casinos can take all they want in deposits and nothing gets triggered till a cash out. Yet, a punter who deposits 2 or 3k a week, then gets called out for a $800.00 withdrawal might in itself be proof that a certain limit was triggered. A casino would be happy to return 800 in exchange for 2/3K a week in deposits.

If I were the OP in this situation I would take my lumps and learn from the experience. I appreciate the concerns with sending critical documents insecurely, customer privacy and all that, so the case should be closed. I doubt you’d be willing to take this to court over $800.00 dollars. It could have been much worse.

I agree and in my opinion, transparency needs to be achieved. Readers of this thread should take note and learn something. But, trying to settle this issue in an open forum showing the casino in a bad light, is a sign of weakness and suspicion on the OP’s part, regardless how most if not all punters will agree with the OP.

 

[pinnit2014]

It is hardly a sign of suspicion on the part of Deeplay. It has raised pertinent and soon to be widespread problems with the whole process.

If anything it’s raised a quizzical eyebrow, to be diplomatic, in the direction of the casino.

What’s there to learn from it in terms of the OP? Don’t play at Rizk?

 

[theapple]

Can't stress enough that chargebacks should never be used in this situation. Having worked 5+ years in fraud ops in Malta, when you make a chargeback against the casino it will affect your ability to deposit at other casinos as you will be added to a internal database which is shared amongst operators. Secondly, you risk a visit from the police and other authorities.

and yet when it comes to self exclusion they are "unable" to make internal database that shared between sites with same license? Im talking about MT sites here as they have been abusing SE system since day one. It could be fixed by now but amount of topics we had because MT sites let people deposit but not cashout (because of SE and because they care) was unreal.

its odd how that works isnt it.

you really gotta feel sorry for casinos sometimes. they really have it hard way. Heck sometimes even normal, non casino rules and laws apply to them!!! its such a shame their own T&C arent above the law anymore :/ I bet if he was to take rizk to court they wouldnt even let them keep his money ! its a travesty really. #FREECASINOS

 

[blackhole]

It is hardly a sign of suspicion on the part of Deeplay. It has raised pertinent and soon to be widespread problems with the whole process.

If anything it’s raised a quizzical eyebrow, to be diplomatic, in the direction of the casino.

What’s there to learn from it in terms of the OP? Don’t play at Rizk?

The fact of what happened to the OP, should put everyone else that reads this on notice. Until and if ever, punters know the facts about triggers, they should be aware of what could happen.

At the very least, realize you may need to prove financial status to gamble online. If you’re not prepared to do so, don’t gamble online.