Rizk Source of Wealth Bullshit!

[goatwack]

Yea sure the UKGC require casino's to carry out this proceedure...but let's not let that get the Casino's who ask for SoW off the hook.

The whole point of SoW is to prevent money laundering & criminal proceeds being funnelled and should only be carried out when and only when ML is suspected. Casino's are carrying out this SoW on a whim.

If this SoW was asked of me I would be completely insulted and close my account as it insinuates by default that the casino do not trust where my money came from and think it may be from illegal activities on my part.

The casino are not obligated to ask for SoW documents unless ML is suspected and that's what is pissing players off.

I am certain Rizk know fine well...they don't need any finer instructions. Just another method for them to delay pay and inconvenience the player. Been there with Documents at nearly all the MT sites; they do love a good old wind up that lot.

Is it AML or Responsible Gambling? The fusion is there for all to see.....

 

[Chipkin9]

Is it AML or Responsible Gambling? The fusion is there for all to see.....

It's AML...that was the whole purpose of SoW in the first place. Absolutely nothing to do with RG.

 

[goatwack]

It's AML...that was the whole purpose of SoW in the first place. Absolutely nothing to do with RG.

So why the fines dished out everywhere by the UKGC? Casinos are reacting by wanting to avoid 'problem gamblers' frequenting their site. And save themselves millions in the process

AML is a piss- poor excuse to instigate these procedures. Along with funding terrorism

 

[Chipkin9]

So why the fines dished out everywhere by the UKGC? Casinos are reacting by wanting to avoid 'problem gamblers' frequenting their site. And save themselves millions in the process

AML is a piss- poor excuse to instigate these procedures. Along with funding terrorism

I dunno mate

I'm not going to pretend to be clued up on the whole thing, but perhaps the fines are for not complying with carrying out SoW as part of AML? And casino's are probably using "Problem Gamblers" as cover. This way people won't be offended by being accused of having dirty money.

At the end of the day the hands may be different but the game is the same; the UK government want to know absolutely everything about you and your online activites and this is just another measure and another industry to track what you do online and where your money comes from. That in itself tells you it is in fact to do with AML and not RG.

We all know British politicians do not like British citizens having offshore accounts, unless it's thier own

 

[mack341]

I didn't know much about the UKGC other than hearing their name in passing, but i found it a bit odd that the commission's chair[man] bill moyes, no relation to david i guess, is also chaiman of the general dental council. He seems to really want to get his and the ukgc's teeth into these issues.

 

[Deeplay]

Right now its getting messy just heard back from Rizk

Thank you for your documents.


Unfortunately the documents provided are not sufficient to show your source of wealth as it doesn’t show how the funds are generated or where it comes from, we can also not see how much you actually earn from these images.


When filling out the source of wealth questionnaire on site you stated that your annual income is £xx / £xxx and your screenshot showing transactions in 2017 is stating £xxxK.


We kindly ask that you supply additional documents which can support what was stated by you in the questionnaire, how your income is generated and where it comes from.


They are really messing up they state my income i showed them was higher than I said on the form!!

I imput income in GBP not USD which is what my income comes from as all my transactions are in USD

Im not prepared to offer any further information and they could not even differentiate between $ and £

so im stuck they are holding my money, refusing to pay

so be warned if you get this from Rizk be prepared for a very messy situation.


Im not sure what my next step is but right im 100s out of pocket.

Captain Rizk any answers to this ?

 

[Deeplay]

Note where they say ::: and your screenshot showing transactions in 2017 is stating £xxxK.

Below is a copy of one screen shot i provided I blanked out the figures and notice it clearly shows my income is in USD DOLLARS NOT gpb

so they are not even reading the document correctly! the conversion from USD into British Pounds will always mean you end up with less POUNDS than Dollars
simply fact

so if i say I earn £100 pounds per year through USD purchases it would mean right now I would have earned approv $135

it is a real worry they did not even take the time to read the document properly

IM not giving any further infromation and will be taking this further if there is no resolution.

see screen shot of one I sent them

Old Attachment (Invalid)

Right now its getting messy just heard back from Rizk

Thank you for your documents.


Unfortunately the documents provided are not sufficient to show your source of wealth as it doesn’t show how the funds are generated or where it comes from, we can also not see how much you actually earn from these images.


When filling out the source of wealth questionnaire on site you stated that your annual income is £xx / £xxx and your screenshot showing transactions in 2017 is stating £xxxK.


We kindly ask that you supply additional documents which can support what was stated by you in the questionnaire, how your income is generated and where it comes from.


They are really messing up they state my income i showed them was higher than I said on the form!!

I imput income in GBP not USD which is what my income comes from as all my transactions are in USD

Im not prepared to offer any further information and they could not even differentiate between $ and £

so im stuck they are holding my money, refusing to pay

so be warned if you get this from Rizk be prepared for a very messy situation.


Im not sure what my next step is but right im 100s out of pocket.

Captain Rizk any answers to this ?

 

[Deeplay]

sorry here is the screen shot that they did not even read properly

 

[Deeplay]

and this point they ask

" We kindly ask that you supply additional documents which can support what was stated by you in the questionnaire, how your income is generated and where it comes from. "

well sorry where i earn my money is none of your business at all. And im not giving my client information out which I would need to do if I was to comply with this ridiculous request!

 

[amourgirl]

It does raise eyebrows that these checks are being only done on withdrawal rather than deposit.

Quite! although casinos tend to do the same with the ID request. They allow you to deposit several times, but suddenly freeze your withdrawal until you verify your ID. Always seemed a bit of a daft way round to me. Personally, I now have made it part of my signing up procedure. I send in all my ID docs when I make my first deposit. I get peace of mind knowing it is done and there will be no delays.

 

[Deeplay]

Im starting to feel like they view as me as some kind of criminal and i dont like it one bit. Soon as this shite situation is sorted they can close my account. I dont need this bullshit.

Be warned dont deposit too much or win too much at Rizk right now as they will be straight onto your back.

 

[amourgirl]

and this point they ask

" We kindly ask that you supply additional documents which can support what was stated by you in the questionnaire, how your income is generated and where it comes from. "

well sorry where i earn my money is none of your business at all. And im not giving my client information out which I would need to do if I was to comply with this ridiculous request!

I think what they mean is if you are a seller on ebay for example, then evidence of this?

 

[bigbear]

Well Captain Rizk said here

Your Input Please - Rizk Casino answers submitted players' questions here!!

Yes after 72 hours all funds will be returned to their originator unless there is suspicious activity on the account in which case they are reported to the relevant authorities as they are now.

which was a response to

What if a customer refuses to give you what you ask for under RG issues, will you immediately close his account and pay him any balance, and would it be treated as a self exclusion, or just an account closure?

Are you saying they allowed you deposit AFTER you refused to supply any more documents?

Have they said if it's RG or AML they are asking for?

The issue here is that there is no standard,across the board procedure.If the UKGC require source of wealth documentation then every casino licensed by therm should all be asking for the relevant documentation.I have made withdrawals at three UKGC licensed casinos over the past few weeks and they have all been paid promptly without any requests for SoW documents.So why are some casinos acting differently to others?

 

[Deeplay]

I think what they mean is if you are a seller on ebay for example, then evidence of this?

im not a seller on ebay but what i do is no ones business!

And the major failing here is they could not even read the document correctly which clearly states my income is genreated in USD not pounds - at source then it gets converted into GBP

and that is a grave error on there part that they could not even read the information given which leads one to ask where else are they making errors on such a serious issue.

I pay my taxes, I pay my bills and yes i make my own own money and use paypal as my billing agent who already have done a stack of checks to verify my business account, as they do with all ppal business accounts.

standard stuff. But thats not the point ...

5 more days from now they will shut of my account.

 

[aceking123]

i feel for you deeplay , im in same boat being self employed, bottom line is even if i wanted too , i cannot supply some clients things ^ where it has come from , so i just left the accounts closed & they shall remain closed , although im not gambling online any longer due to this kind of thing & a few other things.

 

[amourgirl]

5 more days from now they will shut of my account.

I know it's hard, but just be patient and try not to get annoyed (Yet anyway)
The Captain has said that he would read through this thread later on today and he will get in touch with you for more information.
Just have a chat with the him & hopefully between the two of you, you can come to some sort of resolution.

Hey guys, i will go through the whole thread in detail later today as I am travelling. I am getting more detail from Deeplay and will look into it

 

[Chipkin9]

I know it's hard, but just be patient and try not to get annoyed (Yet anyway)
The Captain has said that he would read through this thread later on today and he will get in touch with you for more information.
Just have a chat with the him & hopefully between the two of you, you can come to some sort of resolution.

But it shouldn't have come to the point where he had to contact a rep on an internet forum. What if he was someone who didn't even think to search for a forum like this? He'd be up shit creek! And I guarantee you there are people on the same boat with nowhere to turn and being refused winnings indefinitely.

Having a rep here doesn't get Rizk off. And they can spin it as the UKGC's fault all they like or misinterpretation. But that's not true (Misinterpretation part).

They know SoW should only be carried out if they suspect money laundering in accordance with AML.

 

[Deeplay]

Heard from Rizks rep he needs more to go on to try help but im not divulging my clients private information and they are many clients so its a stale mate

they want all information that i can not and am not allowed to divulge as per the contract that i have with the network I operate on. a totally mad situation

Im starting to think i will loose my withdraw and they will withhold deposits.

this is not a bash at the Rizk rep he is trying to help but i wont supply further private information and certainly not through email!

 

[Deeplay]

And now Rizk have suspended my account and are withholding all my funds they are in effect holding me to ransom



"Please be advised that your account has been temporarily suspended as you have stated that you will not provide any further information. We will require that sufficient supporting documents are provided in order to reopen your account.


You can read more about our regulatory requirements in the link below"

 

[Borgie]

Head from Rizks rep he needs more to go on to try help but im not divulging my clients private information and they are many clients so its a stale mate

they want all information that i can not and am not allowed to divulge as per the contract that i have with the network I operate on. a totally mad situation

Im starting to think i will loose my withdraw and they will withhold deposits.

this is not a bash at the Rizk rep he is trying to help but i wont supply further private information and certainly not through email!

I can't believe that they can keep your deposits as well as winnings ?

 

[Deeplay]

Fact if I divulge my income source which is the public then I breach the terms and conditions of the network I am contracted to online I wont do that and risk loosing my job

so rizk casino now are holding both all my deposits and my withdraws. they have me by the bollocks on this one. But i wont put my income at risk for this and im furious they are doing this and in such an unproffesional manner all through email!

 

[colinsunderland]

And now Rizk have suspended my account and are withholding all my funds they are in effect holding me to ransom



"Please be advised that your account has been temporarily suspended as you have stated that you will not provide any further information. We will require that sufficient supporting documents are provided in order to reopen your account.


You can read more about our regulatory requirements in the link below"

They can't just not pay you. Ask them if they have sent the details to any law enforcement agency, if not, why not, and you require your withdrawal to be processed immediately or you will start legal action, alongside complaints to the UKGC. You would also be within your rights to do a chargeback as part of what you paid for is the ability to withdraw any winnings .
If they have sent the details elsewhere, then you will have to wait until they get a response . I will be extremely surprised if they have though.

 

[Slottery]

For sure this case sucks and it should be (Captain said something in this chain that they will have new SOW process which prevent you all transactions once it's triggered, which sounds much more fair)... UKGC should really support more casinos in these regulations, instead of just throwing new ruling in place without proper instructions how to proceed with these and that casinos could have all same process in place (i remember when KYC process came and it was bit similar shite but this is ofc bit more sensitive area of personal information.

Fully understand OP and other affected fellow members frustration, but also that when you read these UKGC news, like that WHG, LeoVegas etc... they are much better in giving sanctions than cooperate with operators about how to do these in practice, therefore understand that no operator don't want even 500k fine for failing SOW/RG checks. If you have private business and state that it's not their business to know where you earn your money, it's pretty wrong view based on UKGC penalty policy, that is exactly what they need to know, how otherwise they could guess if there is something dodgy or gambling addictions behind of player.

Also, it's not only AML but RG as well, as you have seen UKGC penalties, many of them have social responsibility as one failure, so if somebody start to deposit and play with level which is alarming and triggering some limit (guess different operators have different once as no clear ruling from UKGC which would help operators a lot), they also need to know that you can afford it, in that WHG example was 2(?) players who were let to deposit large amounts where incomes didn't cover even near, so it's not fully true that SOW will be requested only for AML purposes and can't be used for RG purposes, but operator taking care of their social responsibilities.

You could see from Captains post that operator is not still fully aware about whole process and they are looking to put proper process in place, Captain usually explain things quite clear and honestly (like now admitted that he really don't know that part between affiliate TCs and SOW), i can imagine that most of operators are struggling with these rulings atm and GIG as not really small operator might have bit bigger resources to compete with these than some smaller ones. Pretty sure that everybody will see their money, or if not, there is really strong evidence about ML, they are just left in dark by UKGC who demand a lot and give very little assist but afterwards when you can read another story about hugely fined operator. This is just something we can't get away and for sure will be implemented by MGA as well at some point.

 

[Deeplay]

I can't believe that they can keep your deposits as well as winnings ?

Well sadly thats how it is now looking. They are basically telling me if I do not divulge all my private information they keep the lot. and im locked out now of my account. I have no idea who has seen the documents i have sent so far which do show private information and they are basically telling me to TTTH .

This is not aimed at Captain Rizk nice chap who I met the other year person at the CM meet.

Anyway I really hope no one else faces this as you will not get your withdraws it seems unless you provide very sensitive personal and private information. And remember they request this to be sent via email , which is not secure in any way.

 

[ternur]

They know SoW should only be carried out if they suspect money laundering in accordance with AML.

^^ That's actually incorrect. The UKGC expects licensees to know where their clients' funds originate. So the SOW request can be used for both AML and RG purposes. In fact, me thinks it's probably used mainly for RG purposes atm. It's part of the licensing conditions and one that the UKGC seems to keep an eye on.