Redbet - SE on affiliated casino - deposit refund?

Jules75

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Location
Kent
Hi there,

I’m new to the forum and wanted some advice about a recent exchange with Redbet.

I recently opened an account with them (10th nov 2020) deposited £350 played and lost. Was about to make a further deposit when my account was blocked. I enquired as to why and they told me I’d self excluded with another casino in their group. ( since found out they are part of the William hill group). I’d checked on ‘ask gamblers’ who they were owned by (Evoke) and couldn’t see any other casinos listed, so thought I was good to go.
Anyway they said as I was self excluded obviously my account was now closed, but as I’d wagered they weren’t able to refund my deposits.
I’ve gone back and forth with them on this to no avail.

I wanted to know if this is legitimate behaviour on their part? Should their systems and processes not be more robust in the first place, to better detect self excluded players within their group - don’t their systems talk to each other?

This happened to me once before, similar situation and I immediately received a refund without even having to contact the casino in question.

I don’t know if I have a leg to stand on, but feel aggrieved. So wanted to garner some advice?
Thanks in anticipation
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Never self-exclude unless you plan on quitting gambling for life. Most online casinos - at least in the UK - have tools for you to apply to your account like time outs, deposit limits, loss limits, etc. so why self-exclude?

Unfortunately, the whole self exclusion thing has been exploited by players for the past several years. An excellent article written by Max covers this here. Is Self-Exclusion an Illusion? - Casinomeister

@Jules75 - sorry to hear of your woes. At least you weren't waiting for a £35,000 payout that got negated. That would have really sucked.
 

Jules75

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Location
Kent
Never self-exclude unless you plan on quitting gambling for life. Most online casinos - at least in the UK - have tools for you to apply to your account like time outs, deposit limits, loss limits, etc. so why self-exclude?

Unfortunately, the whole self exclusion thing has been exploited by players for the past several years. An excellent article written by Max covers this here. Is Self-Exclusion an Illusion? - Casinomeister

@Jules75 - sorry to hear of your woes. At least you weren't waiting for a £35,000 payout that got negated. That would have really sucked.

Thanks. Interesting article.
Yes it’s a modest sum, but nonetheless still worth pursuing.

I did see a couple of posts on here about others who’d had similar experiences with Redbet and seemingly got refunds eventually..
I did reach out to mr green and they confirmed I’m self excluded until January 2021. I genuinely didn’t know that Redbet had sister sites in Mr Green and others. There are so many brands/companies popping up tracing their owners wasn’t straightforward or at least it didn’t occur to me to delve beyond seeing Evoke as their owner.
Any other thoughts or advice would be really welcome ??
 

GSF2020

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Location
Germany
"... the whole self exclusion thing has been exploited by players for the past several years. "

But this is also due to the OCs. Why do OCs providers constantly open new online casinos/brands? It is exactly about serving those people who are SE :)
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
But this is also due to the OCs. Why do OCs providers constantly open new online casinos/brands? It is exactly about serving those people who are SE :)
Yes, you are correct - it can be exploited from both sides of the fence. It can become pretty messy at times.
 

6HellsBells6

Full Member
PABnoaccred
Joined
Oct 24, 2020
Location
Ireland
Thanks. Interesting article.
Yes it’s a modest sum, but nonetheless still worth pursuing.

I did see a couple of posts on here about others who’d had similar experiences with Redbet and seemingly got refunds eventually..
I did reach out to mr green and they confirmed I’m self excluded until January 2021. I genuinely didn’t know that Redbet had sister sites in Mr Green and others. There are so many brands/companies popping up tracing their owners wasn’t straightforward or at least it didn’t occur to me to delve beyond seeing Evoke as their owner.
Any other thoughts or advice would be really welcome ??
If I was you, I would pursue it.

On the basis that if you had off won and went to withdraw it, they would off had to void it because of the SE in place and also probably would of refunded your deposits, no questions asked.

But seeing as you lost, they will make things more difficult and hope you give up (Probably).

Also, that they were the ones that blocked you, I would of also thought that, it should be a case of a straight refund.
 

Jules75

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Location
Kent
Ok thanks. I’ve told them I would pursue it, so I will.

any advice on how to escalate it beyond just emailing them. Can I make a formal complaint through casinomeister?
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
If I was you, I would pursue it.

On the basis that if you had off won and went to withdraw it, they would off had to void it because of the SE in place and also probably would of refunded your deposits, no questions asked.

But seeing as you lost, they will make things more difficult and hope you give up (Probably).

Also, that they were the ones that blocked you, I would of also thought that, it should be a case of a straight refund.
But they wouldn't have to void any winnings as cross license exclusions aren't enforced as part of the LCCP. Thats not to say they wouldn't have, but if they did then they would be on shaky ground trying to void them.
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
And their customer service is really frustrating, as no one responds for days.

@Mr Green-Redbet_Customer supportRep
Please can you help?
You should send him a PM rather than just tagging him, he will get an email telling him he has a private message, rather than just seeing a notification when he logs in.
Failing that you can submit a PAB with @maxd however, in my view, I wouldn't expect to win. It's a different license, there is no legal obligation to exclude you. If you could find any cases where they had used a cross license exclusion to refuse to paying winnings, then that would strengthen your case as they can't have it both ways.
 

chiya

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Location
Earth
This works both ways you know .. They excluded you, and now you want your money back. What *if* they hadn't excluded you, and you had won? You wouldn't have contacted them saying you should be excluded now would you?

We get a thread regarding SE refunds like once a week. Most of them are probably problem gamblers trying to sneak their way around the system, and get their money back.

Just take the loss, and move on. I doubt PAB will help you either so there's not much you can do. In the future don't use self-exclusion if you're not a problem gambler, or if you are then use gamstop or such so that you're excluded everywhere.
 

Sasukdcf

Full Member
PABnorogue
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Location
Norwich
to be fair they are not all bad.....

I was asked to SOW with bet victor and to be honest I couldnt be arsed so havent..... but missed not having another casino to play on so joined pariplay (not knowing it was part of same group, although it looked similar, but i assumed it was maybe a generic site that both used and if there was an issue then it would flag when joining

anyway it didnt i played i lost most of it then got a pop up saying account was to be closed... spoke to chat and they explained it was linked account and i said thats fine i presume you will be refunding my remaining balance and they said no we will refund all of it....

They also explained that had i have won they would have only refunded initial deposit too which would have been really annoying but its fair, although seems silly that it doesnt flag when registering as all the same details

havent actually recieved it yet mind you and thats 5 days ago now !!
 

Jules75

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Location
Kent
This works both ways you know .. They excluded you, and now you want your money back. What *if* they hadn't excluded you, and you had won? You wouldn't have contacted them saying you should be excluded now would you?

We get a thread regarding SE refunds like once a week. Most of them are probably problem gamblers trying to sneak their way around the system, and get their money back.

Just take the loss, and move on. I doubt PAB will help you either so there's not much you can do. In the future don't use self-exclusion if you're not a problem gambler, or if you are then use gamstop or such so that you're excluded everywhere.

to be fair if I had won and tried to withdraw, I’m pretty sure they would have blocked my account pronto. Of course there are 2 sides, but what’s the point of self exclusion if it doesn’t work or systems don’t pick it up. I mean , granted it was a few years ago and I genuinely didn’t know the 2casinos were connected. But i suspect if I had won it wouldn’t have been in my favour either.

Im not a problem gambler and as such haven’t
Used this to try and recoup lost bets. The lack of customer service and seemingly poor systems on their part just seems unacceptable.
 

Jules75

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Location
Kent
to be fair they are not all bad.....

I was asked to SOW with bet victor and to be honest I couldnt be arsed so havent..... but missed not having another casino to play on so joined pariplay (not knowing it was part of same group, although it looked similar, but i assumed it was maybe a generic site that both used and if there was an issue then it would flag when joining

anyway it didnt i played i lost most of it then got a pop up saying account was to be closed... spoke to chat and they explained it was linked account and i said thats fine i presume you will be refunding my remaining balance and they said no we will refund all of it....

They also explained that had i have won they would have only refunded initial deposit too which would have been really annoying but its fair, although seems silly that it doesnt flag when registering as all the same details

havent actually recieved it yet mind you and thats 5 days ago now !!
No they aren’t all bad! Your experience is a positive one, or at least fair one. I couldn’t ask for more than that. Good to hear that some casinos are playing fair.
I’ll keep you posted on Redbet
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
to be fair if I had won and tried to withdraw, I’m pretty sure they would have blocked my account pronto. Of course there are 2 sides, but what’s the point of self exclusion if it doesn’t work or systems don’t pick it up. I mean , granted it was a few years ago and I genuinely didn’t know the 2casinos were connected. But i suspect if I had won it wouldn’t have been in my favour either.

Im not a problem gambler and as such haven’t
Used this to try and recoup lost bets. The lack of customer service and seemingly poor systems on their part just seems unacceptable.

Self exclusion does work though, it's a common myth that every casino under the group should self exclude, but the rules are that when you self exclude you have to be self excluded from all properties under that licence. In your case they aren't so they have no obligation to do so.

Obviously as you lost money you want it refunded, and I completely get that, especially after they closed your account. But just like I mentioned earlier, casinos can't have it both ways (don't refund deposits and don't pay winnings), players can't either. If you had won and they were refusing to pay, then I would be completely on your side, and telling you to do a PAB, if that didn't work, complain to the ADR and then the UKGC, as legally I don't think they would have a leg to stand on. However, that does mean I can't argue the opposite, and as I said, legally I don't think you have any chance of getting your money back. If you push enough, and it being a small amount, they might refund you as a good will gesture so fingers crossed they do :)
 

Jules75

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Location
Kent
Self exclusion does work though, it's a common myth that every casino under the group should self exclude, but the rules are that when you self exclude you have to be self excluded from all properties under that licence. In your case they aren't so they have no obligation to do so.

Obviously as you lost money you want it refunded, and I completely get that, especially after they closed your account. But just like I mentioned earlier, casinos can't have it both ways (don't refund deposits and don't pay winnings), players can't either. If you had won and they were refusing to pay, then I would be completely on your side, and telling you to do a PAB, if that didn't work, complain to the ADR and then the UKGC, as legally I don't think they would have a leg to stand on. However, that does mean I can't argue the opposite, and as I said, legally I don't think you have any chance of getting your money back. If you push enough, and it being a small amount, they might refund you as a good will gesture so fingers crossed they do :)

I hear what you are saying.
I will pursue it and I’ll see what happens. I’ve sent a DM to a rep from the casino on here and they have responded immediately, so that’s something, considering the poor comms on Redbets part so far, making it impossible to even talk to them.
Will update when I hear more.
Fingers crossed as you say.
 
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