Question to all

[m249a]

, I have noticed a trend in the forums as of late......Again, IMHO it seems the so-called advocates of player issues has fallen to the wayside, and more and more the issues of bad threads, that might lead to a not so favorable google search are taking center stage. What I am trying to say (and there are others who could say it better) someone has a bad experience at a online casino/poker room and for whatever reason they come to the forums for help. I have seen over and over again moderators, and forum members alike (usually those with links to their own forums) jumping down the throats of the poster/player for his/her choice of words. The defense given for this is more often then not something along the lines of "this type of wording could cause bad PR for the casino" I.E. a bad google or forum search result. What gives folks? Sure some of the threads started by new posters are harshly worded, people feel the need to vent their frustration, and do so. But more and more I am seeing a catorgoric denouncing of these newer posters for the wording of their threads. Unless we as players voice our opinions, the casinos will never know or care what the issue is, and it will remain business as usual. I look foreward to your replies.

 

[Black21Jack]

The problem is not their posts or how they word their posts but the titles, and how long they wait before posting. Some people may have a great experience at an online casino and others may not be happy with their experience at the same casino. It's fine to post about a negative experience and what exactly happened to them, in an informative calm manner. If I have a bad experience I will share it with my fellow players, just like I do when I have a great experience. People come to the boards and title their posts 'XXXX CASINO DOES NOT PAY, STAY AWAY' then when the managers or CS staff have time to sort it out they usually come back and post 'never mind I just checked Neteller and my money was deposited today' Most of the time there is a mix up or something. They also post that emails are ignored etc. but a lot of the time it could be that the response emails are bounced by their spam software but they come to the boards and right away scream 'foul' Whenver I have had a money issue I get right on the phone and do not waste any time with waiting for emails. That is why I do not have any negative posts on casinos (also because I never claim a bonus but to each their own) Anyways people are free to do what they want, I just feel that the premature posting to stay away from a casino could hurt the business and reputation of a casino when it could be usually fixed behind the scenes. Of course there are a lot of bad casinos, and their tactics are just over the top like actually sending emails stating that the player will not be paid etc. then the people need to know.

 

[Sodax77]

Good post m249a, you have question and answer

However, why many "newbies" afraid (~avoid) to write anything here?

I like to pick this topic, because i almost post reply to that and...
well i don't say more... i hope you get my point (or not):

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...o-lol-first-time-i-played-online.5729/?t=5729

 

[jpm]

I understant your point M249a, and I think B21J expressed what I was going to say pretty well. The only thing I'd add is that some players are very impatient, and will do something like B21J showed or worse 'Casino XXXXX are THIEVES!!' when they haven't gotten paid after only a week.

Many times, the casinos will want faxback forms and they will supposedly send you an email telling you this, but for whatever reason, it never gets to you. I've had this happen over and over again, and when I call to ask the status of the cashin after a week or if it gets rejected back to my account, they tell me they'll resend it, then for some reason that one goes thru. It this shady? Yeah. Thievery, no because they then pay me right after I send the form they want. They're just stalling hoping I'll play it out. But subsequent cashins go thru fine. Sometimes they mailed a check which takes about 2 weeks, but again a phone call finds that out in 2 mins.

I have labeled casinos as theives before, but its after months of fighting with them to get my legitimate winnings (like with Portofino) and having to get their licensor involved in order to get paid. Doing so after a week or even two is overreaction imo.

That being said, if you were having problems getting paid after a week or 2, I'd have no problem with a thread title like 'Cashin problem at XXXXXX casino' or 'Problem getting paid from XXXXX casino' and then an explaination of the issue, without the 'They are stealing my money' accusations. Its a big leap from slow pay to no pay, and the two shouldn't be confused willy nilly. Grand Banks for instance are scumbags because they intentionally slow pay over months, but that doesn't make them theives since they eventually (so far) pay. Others like the Vegas Strip Group (americas online, cleopatras, etc) are theives because they have in the past outright stolen players' money (including mine).

 

[m249a]

See black21jack, we can have a nice chat together as long as we don't mention politics LOL ...Look (and this goes to JPM as well) we people are emotional creatures. The emotions we express are fueled by our life experiences, add money (or lack there of ) and it can be like adding gasoline to a blazing fire. Now I doubt there are many people who are willing to accept the standard "oh your spam filter must have deleted our email" when the damn bonus spam always seems to squeak thru. The fact is (and you summed it up JPM) the distinction between hoping the player will reverse their withdraw, and outright stealing their money, is very very murky water. It would appear that the casino is quick to say it is the players fault, for having spam protection, and the casino is of course then quick to fix the issue.

Yes I do agree that some of the new threads are harshly worded, for right or wrong........It is however a precieved problem, and our preception becomes our reality quickly. I do also think (in the case of a new poster/forum member) that the more seasoned posters should try a softer approach, and show genuine concern for that players issue.

 

[jpm]

The only problem is that once someone posts that Casino XXXXX are theives, it can't be un-said or un-read. Kind of like accusing someone of being a child molester or rapist, they may be found not guilty, but the doubt always lingers in the minds of those who heard about it that the person is a molester/rapist.

It would probably be good to have some kind of posting guidelines for newbie posters so they know how not to post about a problem. Especially since advocate groups like eCOGRA won't help you if you are trashing one of their member casinos in public.

 

[Black21Jack]

The only problem is that once someone posts that Casino XXXXX are theives, it can't be un-said or un-read. Kind of like accusing someone of being a child molester or rapist, they may be found not guilty, but the doubt always lingers in the minds of those who heard about it that the person is a molester/rapist.

It would probably be good to have some kind of posting guidelines for newbie posters so they know how not to post about a problem. Especially since advocate groups like eCOGRA won't help you if you are trashing one of their member casinos in public.

This is exactly the point I try to get across to people when I post in a thread that is accusing a casino of stealing or warning players to stay away. I am not trying to vilify the player or make them not want to post anymore. Like jpm said, once something is read it puts it in the persons mind. Now if one day down the road some friends are discussing which online casinos to play in and XXXX casino comes up, what do you think would be the first thing to come to mind? Not a reply way down in the thread 'Nevermind I checked my account and they took care of it' but the first post with all the emotion, and all the name calling and the bold titles 'THIEVES', 'STAY AWAY' etc. The friend who read this post will now say 'I read that some people were ripped off by XXXX casino, I would not play there' This is how it may become a problem. I agree with your point m249a, and it is not my intention to scare off 'newbies'

 

[Casinomeister]

...But more and more I am seeing a catorgoric denouncing of these newer posters for the wording of their threads. Unless we as players voice our opinions, the casinos will never know or care what the issue is, and it will remain business as usual...

Hopefully this is not happening here. I have no problem with players voicing their dismay in their casino experiences; they are also free to post their complaints in this forum as well. But stating so, I should clarify some issues.

a) there is a small percentage of players that will use message boards like this one and WOL to "get their way" with a casino - "pay me or I will post" threats. Even though the player is in the wrong, they will attempt to do this to see how far they can go. I see this again and again with first time posters. They make their posting (and a few of their "friends" as well) and then dissapear. Damage is done.

b) there is a small percentage of posters that have a knee-jerk reaction to what they deem is unsatisfactory. They've been RIPPED OFF!!! yet they haven't given a casino the chance to rectify whatever problem they have had in a reasonable amount of time.

c) and then there is the cloaked evil casino manager who will dis the competition stirring the shit to get the players to come their way. Sheesh!!

These are but a few examples that account for some of the reasons some cynics jump on newbies ass for posting something negative. I try to do my best to check out the validity of whatever is being posted, especially when it is damaging to a casino. In all fairness, I discourage posting in the complaints section if you haven't given the casino the chance to resolve a complaint, or given me or eCogra or whomever a chance to assist as well.

Voicing an opinion or experience is fine, but one must do so responsibly. No one should try and make any business suffer unnecessarily, and this is one of the reasons I try to keep things in line here.

By the way, I'm back.

 

[jinnia]

m249a, I agree with you. The long time members of a forum seems to be in wait for a complaint to be posted just so they can jump down the throat of the poster. It is wrong, Watchdog forums such as Meisters is here for players to post of a problem/issue they are having with a casino and for that casino to respond with hope of getting that problem/issue resolved. NOT for others to jump down the posters throat.

And yes Bryan, I would have to go look through all threads to show you each one, but it is happening here. 2 or 3 people here I see doing it more and more.

When someone posts a complaint, it should be delt with more of an adult attitude/behaviour from the other posters who want to be involved. Just ask for more details and work at finding the truth. AS: is the complaint legit, or is that person working at defrauding the casino.

Just because you have not had a bad experience with a casino that's being posted negative about, does not mean someone else hasn't.

 

[chuchu59]

I understant your point M249a, and I think B21J expressed what I was going to say pretty well. The only thing I'd add is that some players are very impatient, and will do something like B21J showed or worse 'Casino XXXXX are THIEVES!!' when they haven't gotten paid after only a week.

Many times, the casinos will want faxback forms and they will supposedly send you an email telling you this, but for whatever reason, it never gets to you. I've had this happen over and over again, and when I call to ask the status of the cashin after a week or if it gets rejected back to my account, they tell me they'll resend it, then for some reason that one goes thru. It this shady? Yeah. Thievery, no because they then pay me right after I send the form they want. They're just stalling hoping I'll play it out. But subsequent cashins go thru fine. Sometimes they mailed a check which takes about 2 weeks, but again a phone call finds that out in 2 mins.

I have labeled casinos as theives before, but its after months of fighting with them to get my legitimate winnings (like with Portofino) and having to get their licensor involved in order to get paid. Doing so after a week or even two is overreaction imo.

That being said, if you were having problems getting paid after a week or 2, I'd have no problem with a thread title like 'Cashin problem at XXXXXX casino' or 'Problem getting paid from XXXXX casino' and then an explaination of the issue, without the 'They are stealing my money' accusations. Its a big leap from slow pay to no pay, and the two shouldn't be confused willy nilly. Grand Banks for instance are scumbags because they intentionally slow pay over months, but that doesn't make them theives since they eventually (so far) pay. Others like the Vegas Strip Group (americas online, cleopatras, etc) are theives because they have in the past outright stolen players' money (including mine).

I agree with you jpm. Dont scream and cry 'foul' before giving the casinos some sort of a chance. Your categorization of these casinos is almost correct to the letter. I wonder whether you played roughly the same time as I did ie portofino,cleopatra's ,grand banks. Your problems were identical to mine.

 

[chuchu59]

m249a, I agree with you. The long time members of a forum seems to be in wait for a complaint to be posted just so they can jump down the throat of the poster. It is wrong, Watchdog forums such as Meisters is here for players to post of a problem/issue they are having with a casino and for that casino to respond with hope of getting that problem/issue resolved. NOT for others to jump down the posters throat.

And yes Bryan, I would have to go look through all threads to show you each one, but it is happening here. 2 or 3 people here I see doing it more and more.

When someone posts a complaint, it should be delt with more of an adult attitude/behaviour from the other posters who want to be involved. Just ask for more details and work at finding the truth. AS: is the complaint legit, or is that person working at defrauding the casino.

Just because you have not had a bad experience with a casino that's being posted negative about, does not mean someone else hasn't.

Jinnia,

I disagree with your view that the long time members of this forum just want to pounce on those who make complaints. Being seasoned veterans,they just want to ensure that both stories are being heard. I have read many of the posts by these long time members and I do feel that they are quite reasonable. If we are to iron things out,we need a certain degree of patience and tolerance. Dont let emotions get the better of us otherwise little can be achieved.

 

[Casinomeister]

...And yes Bryan, I would have to go look through all threads to show you each one, but it is happening here. 2 or 3 people here I see doing it more and more..

It's really an effort to try and keep an eye on every thread...unfortunately some pass me by. But if any one of my dear forum members has an issue with any thread, they should utilize the "report a bad post" button and I'll check into the offending thread right away.

 

[jinnia]

Jinnia,

I disagree with your view that the long time members of this forum just want to pounce on those who make complaints. Being seasoned veterans,they just want to ensure that both stories are being heard. I have read many of the posts by these long time members and I do feel that they are quite reasonable. If we are to iron things out,we need a certain degree of patience and tolerance. Dont let emotions get the better of us otherwise little can be achieved.

I know what I see!

As I said, the truth needs to be found if a complaint is legit or an attempt at defrauding a casino. But I have read numerous threads here and all posts in each, and I have repeatedly seen a new post go up making a complaint against a casino and a long time member immediately jump in and say things in effect as, 'I play there and have never had any problem', or, 'sounds like you're trying to blackmail the casino' ... 'are you sure you're not just trying to defraud the place'.... IMO, remarks as this is uncalled for until it is proven blackmail or fraud is at play.

And as I said above, you may not have had any problems with the casino being posted about, sure don't mean someone else isn't.

I just feel remarks, as above, should not be, until more is found out about the complaint posted.

Then if it's found to be an attempt at 'fraud'..etc., then have your go at the poster, if that's what one likes doing.

 

[jinnia]

It's really an effort to try and keep an eye on every thread...unfortunately some pass me by. But if any one of my dear forum members has an issue with any thread, they should utilize the "report a bad post" button and I'll check into the offending thread right away.

Having the amount of activity as you do here, it is impossible to keep up with every single post.

I don't have an issue with what people post, or how they do it, some just needs to look into an issue that's being posted before accusing the poster as being a liar/fraudster/black mailer..etc.

All I'm saying is, if a post (complaint) goes up, and someone has information to prove it's not so, then post it, don't go bashing the poster without knowing for sure.

 

[jpm]

I wonder whether you played roughly the same time as I did ie portofino,cleopatra's ,grand banks. Your problems were identical to mine.

Around late 2001 I think it was, as far as the vegas strip group problems. I think early 2002 was when grand banks got real bad.

 

[chuchu59]

Around late 2001 I think it was, as far as the vegas strip group problems. I think early 2002 was when grand banks got real bad.

Right on,jpm. Those were the times I played with them. It was horrible. On one occasion,I felt being like a fool,having e-mailed to the strip and safebet about 10 times my faxback form and id documents which they continously claim were never received. Julie Sidwell intervened and I got my money. Thanks Julie. I do miss you.

 

[jetset]

I'm just back, too after a stunning self-drive tour of the New England states in the US (you guys really have a beautiful and diverse countryside in the East)

I think the 'Meister is on the money with his comments - there have been some pretty ulterior goings-on on the big fora and experienced posters have become adept at identifying and challenging them. This comment from Jinnia bears repeating in this conversation imoi, too:

Quote: When someone posts a complaint, it should be delt with more of an adult attitude/behaviour from the other posters who want to be involved. Just ask for more details and work at finding the truth.Unquote

A little control and civility goes a long way and does not dilute a challenge.