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playing games that do not count towards wagering requirements

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Steve Russo, Apr 12, 2010.

    Apr 12, 2010
  1. Steve Russo

    Steve Russo Experienced Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Journalist
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    I cannot agree more with Casinomeister on this point. I manage Gambling Grumbles and have found that most of the complaints that players have concern bonuses, and they are often the result of not understanding the restrictions.

    I just had one grumble about the Slots Oasis Casino in which the player had won over $50,000 but the casino refused to pay him because his first bet was on roulette, which was not permitted under the T&Cs of the bonus.

    I would like to repost here the last few paragraphs of that report:


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2010
    1 person likes this.
  2. Apr 12, 2010
  3. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I can not agree LESS with CasinoMeister...unless we are talking about rogue casinos, where players shouldn't be depositing their money in the first place.

    I understand the gist of what he is saying, but IMO if the T&Cs say "does not count towards wagering requirements" it means "does not count towards wagering requirements" and NOT "must not be played during wagering for a bonus".
    It's Black and White - no ambiguity - and no reputable casino should be using this clause alone as a reason for confiscating bonuses or winnings.

    KK
     
    4 people like this.
  4. Apr 12, 2010
  5. Steve Russo

    Steve Russo Experienced Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Journalist
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    The T&Cs often go beyond that. In the case I was discussing, Oasis Slots T&Cs say that "Wagering on restricted games may void all winnings won on this promotion."

    Do you want to debate what that means? Fair enough -- but remember that a casino will not join the debate, especially if it means that it faces paying out the big bucks.

    As I mentioned above, the casinos have put players in a "You can lose but you can't win" position. If you lose, they will be happy to keep your losses. If you win, they will determine that your bet was invalid and return your deposit only.

    The real answer should be making it impossible for a player to make a bet which violates the T&Cs. That would not be problematic for any software designer worth his salt.

    Casinos, however, don't appear anxious to do that so in the meantime, the best any player can do is to study the T&Cs very carefully, contact the casino before-hand if he has any question as to what they mean, or, better yet, avoid making any bets which could, by the furthest stretch of the imagination, be considered a violation of the T&Cs.
     
  6. Apr 12, 2010
  7. revelingame

    revelingame Dormant account

    Occupation:
    CEO
    Location:
    Gibraltar
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Apr 12, 2010
  9. Steve Russo

    Steve Russo Experienced Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Journalist
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    No game offered by any casino is ever completely off limits. If it were, the casino simply would not have it on its site.

    When a player is told that he can not play a certain game until he has met his playthrough requirements, a restriction is put on that game. That automatically makes it (for him) a restricted game.

    Of course, the very fact that you and I can read the T&Cs and come up with two completely different interpretations demonstrates how complicated on line T&Cs tend to be. Nobody wants to go to law school just to be able to understand what he can or can not do when enjoying himself playing on line.

    It is about time that casinos started taking responsibility for enforcing their rules -- and, at the same time, do it in a manner which is fair to the player. I do not consider "You can lose, but you can't win" policies to be at all fair.

    If a casino demands certain identification before allowing a cash in, it should require that identification before allowing someone to play.

    If a casino is going to run a check on you to see if you have multiple accounts, it should do so before you can play.

    If a casino is going to call you a "bonus abuser" because you only play when it is offering bonuses, then it should not send you any more offers.

    And, as I said earlier, it should put any restrictions on your play into its software. If roulette is off limits to you until you meet playthrough requirements for a bonus, then the casino should make it impossible for you to play roulette.

    Unfortunately, the concept of "if you win we will return your deposit, if you lose we will keep it" is a widespread one throughout the industry. Indeed, today we only consider a casino to be "rogue" when it keeps the deposit as well as your winnings.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Apr 12, 2010
  11. bernynhel

    bernynhel Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Loafer
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Here! Here! In the Sahara Sands thread started by Bencuri, earlier today, I was alerted, for the first time after playing Rival sites for almost 2 years, that DoubleUp is listed in the restricted games list. While VP limits are reduced while WR is being met, the winnings-voiding double up feature is still active. Foul!
     

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