Player sues casino

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
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I wrote a post on my Casinomeister blog about a player who is suing Centrebet for his gambling losses . The case is pending.

I would like to know what you think in general. Can a casino in some circumstances be liable for a player's gambling losses?




Blog post:

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Personally, I don't think an online casino would be responsible for repaying gambling losses if nothing illegal was done on their part. Now, if the player had opted to self-exclude due to a gambling problem, and then the casino allowed them to reopen their account, then I think they should be held PARTIALLY responsible for "aiding and abetting".

Otherwise, how many other frustrated players would try to do the same thing? It all revolves around responsibility. A player has to take the responsibility each time they hit the deposit button. And yes, this has been hashed over and over again, but the player NEEDs to make sure they understand the terms and conditions for each online place they play at when they click that little "I agree to the terms and conditions" button. It's a virtual contract you are electronically signing when you choose to play at a casino.

If players can start suing online casinos because they don't want to take responsibilty, players will start seeing even more obscure, ridiculous and farfetched T&Cs, JMO. CSR will be less likely to assist the "honest" player and players will be faced with more of the "talk to the hand" attitudes.

When a person gambles online, it's not like the casino staff can get an up close and personal view of the person to see if they are mentally capable of taking on the responsibility of gambling. Also, even at B&Ms, casinos don't have financial statements for each and every player to ensure they are financially stable enough to gamble in the first place. Again, these are all just personal opinions on the matter.

The world has turned into a sue crazy place. It seems some are out to do anything they can to bring down legitimate businesses and take the easy way in life.

Just my two cents...
 
I wrote a post on my Casinomeister blog about a player who is suing Centrebet for his gambling losses . The case is pending.

I would like to know what you think in general. Can a casino in some circumstances be liable for a player's gambling losses?




Blog post:

Link Outdated / Removed

Yes I just read the blog.
Rather difficult situation, it depends a bit on those playing patterns.

Basically I'd say no, how could the casino know that he was mentally ill?
They cannot possibly screen their players on that.

But if the guy was really playing like an idiot, for example losing almost every hand of blackjack because he kept asking for a card, even if he had 19 or 20, they may have a case.

But I suppose that someone who's clever enough to get 8 million in fraudulent loans is also clever enough to know the rules of casinogames and how to play them.
 
Can a casino in some circumstances be liable for a player's gambling losses?

I Doubt it. I agree with alot of opinions about taking responsibility. The story is also based entirely on what the 'Player' has to say - No View from the Casino. Some people have problems (as in the case of the 8m loser) and Casinos should not be predatory in enticing a multi million loser to continue with crazy bonuses.

Management would have been well aware of his tendancies and if they had approached him (to query if all was well) and he brushed them off - I wouldn't blame them.

Anyways - opinions differ - but if there was a clear indicator that something was wrong, it should have been addressed.

Nate
 
Here is a link to the story
27 OCT 2010
Foreign online gaming companies may be sued in Norway

SPORTS ALERT (EMEA)
Nick Fitzpatrick
Nils Arne Grønlie
Stine Baumann
Old / Expired Link
 
Just curious, is this person's attorneys going after the institutions which allowed him/her to make the fraudulent loans too? If this person is intelligent enough to figure out how to get $8 million in fraudulent loans, then I would think that voids out any preconceived perception this person is mentally unstable.

I'm not a lawayer and definitely have no clue about international law. But it seems to me there has to be some type of prescedense set, or online casinos will be deluged with lawsuits from every disgruntled gambler on the face of the planet.
 
There have been quite a few cases like this.

A guy in the UK sued a bookies (will hill I think) after losing £2m. He lost, and the judge called him an idiot for try it.
 
I believe that there are no valid reasons for why a casino should be held responsible for gambling losses. Unless it is proven technical failures, etc.

In their ruling, the Supreme Court did not take into consideration whether the player can be considered to be a "consumer " or not. Consumers have a very strong protection in Norway, so I will assume that there will be a dispute about this.

In my view, this player can not be considered as s consumer. His gambling was his livelihood and therefore he is no consumer by Norwegian law.
 
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Just curious, is this person's attorneys going after the institutions which allowed him/her to make the fraudulent loans too? If this person is intelligent enough to figure out how to get $8 million in fraudulent loans, then I would think that voids out any preconceived perception this person is mentally unstable.

I'm not a lawayer and definitely have no clue about international law. But it seems to me there has to be some type of prescedense set, or online casinos will be deluged with lawsuits from every disgruntled gambler on the face of the planet.

One person who lent out money to this man (about €3 mill), did sue the biggest bank in Norway (DnB NOR). She believed it was irresponsible of the bank to allow such large transfers to Moneybookers without anyone investigating the case. (laundering, etc. ..). She lost the case.

(By the way, she is one of the wealthiest women in Norway:) )

Yeah, he used Moneybookers :rolleyes:
 
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This man was a guest in a talk show here a couple of years ago.
His parents have had a major role in helping him raise the money.
The woman who lent out half of the money was a friend of his parents. She did so thinking she was investing in a computer project in the Czech republic.

So basically from what I remember and what I have read, the man lived in hotels mainly in the
Czech republic, and asked his parents to help him finance his project.
His parents who have huge debts because of their son declared themselves bankrupt in 2008.

He said in the show it all started with one major hit. My impression from the show, well he didn't seem like the sharpest knife in the drawer, kind of naive, quiet and not eloquent at all.

Emme
 
This man was a guest in a talk show here a couple of years ago.
His parents have had a major role in helping him raise the money.
The woman who lent out half of the money was a friend of his parents. She did so thinking she was investing in a computer project in the Czech republic.

So basically from what I remember and what I have read, the man lived in hotels mainly in the
Czech republic, and asked his parents to help him finance his project.
His parents who have huge debts because of their son declared themselves bankrupt in 2008.

He said in the show it all started with one major hit. My impression from the show, well he didn't seem like the sharpest knife in the drawer, kind of naive, quiet and not eloquent at all.

Emme

Yes, it is quite correct. His father was a bishop in Norway, but quitted his job because of this case.

Somebody later stated "when a bishop quit, it`s either money or sexual relationships involved :rolleyes:
 
This case was discussed here at Casinomeister forums a couple of years ago:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/free-30-000-bonus-this-is-how.26914/

There are links to several articles in that thread, here's the first two of them translated from Norwegian to English.

An unthinkable cynical and raw industry (Translated from Norvegian):
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


He was an important customer (Translated from Norvegian):
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Based on that interview with former Bet365 employee it looks like the casino used very dirty tactics to make the player come back and lose more. So I didn't think that the casinos involved should be completely left off the hook regarding this case.
 
Thanks for that Jufo :)

I did see that old thread and it was mostly about Bet365. I find it a bit strange that this player only has sued Centrebet and not Bet365. But they may have settled or the player did not feel he had a good case against Bet365.
 
There was a case here in the city where some city employee went to the casino in his company vehicle and sat in the casino all day when he was supposed to be at work.

And then there was some woman who embezzled hundreds of thousands of dollars from her employers so she could go feed the bandits.

In the one case the player wasn't playing on his own time, in the other case the player wasn't playing with her own money - is the casino responsible for the losses in either case? Of course not - the responsibility is all on the player. In the second case I think the woman's employers may have had more of a case against the casino than this guy did. He got some of his money by lying, but this woman got hers by stealing.

But this made me curious - I know there have been cases of an underaged player going to a casino and winning, and payout is denied because the player shouldn't have been there in the first place. Do they refund the money that the player had when they came in? What if the player loses and then proves that they're underage? Does the casino give back the losses? Does anyone know?
 
Hmmm, I agree with above posts that the casino shouldn't be liable. A couple of points off the top of my head. First, the 'mental illness' this man suffers from is addiction. These addictive behaviours, although compulsive, are essentially the choice of the individual (i.e., only the individual can choose to attempt to stop). It's a long hard road back but only by acknowledging their own responsibility and really wanting to stop can this occur. Blaming the casino is not the way to get there. It is simply looking to place external blame.

Secondly, I work with those who are mentally unwell and it really gets me when this is paraded around as an excuse. The syndrome they talk about is related to some learning difficulties and possible mental retardation. It ranges from mild to severe. Now, given this man was commiting fraud by getting money for some business project, living independently, and supposedly working, I suspect he is 'high functioning'. In other words, the mental illness becomes yet another external excuse and generally does not impact too much on his day to day functioning and ability to make a decision. At the most it might predispose him to impulse control disorders (e.g., gambling) which he and his support network should have been aware of. It is not up to the casino to be aware of this, and in fact would be impossible (unless they demand medical certificate and histories from all their players).

I don't know what the casino did to 'draw him in' (i.e., the tactics metioned). The only fact as I see it currently in the article is that this man is addicted to gambling. He obtained money fraudulently, gambled, lost and now wants to blame the casino, his 'mental illness, and probably everyone and everything other than stopping and taking responsibility. I fear for this person's recovery when he does not appear to be at a point of acknowledging his own liability in this situation.
 
I wrote a post on my Casinomeister blog about a player who is suing Centrebet for his gambling losses . The case is pending.

I would like to know what you think in general. Can a casino in some circumstances be liable for a player's gambling losses?




Blog post:

Link Outdated / Removed

No. I don't think casinos are responsible for that. It is the players' responsibility for losing.
 
30k bonus? Aw come on! :lolup:

The casinos knew he had a problem and they just tried to suck as much as they could from him.

Take em' to the courts!
 
30k bonus? Aw come on! :lolup:

The casinos knew he had a problem and they just tried to suck as much as they could from him.

Take em' to the courts!


He was allegedly also given several trips around in Europe.

Wish I was offered a nice vacation trip instead of a €100 bonus with x40 WR :p
 
What next?

An alcoholic who develops liver cancer sues a bartender for giving him free drinks, knowing that he had a drinking problem?

An obese person who has a heart attack sues their favorite restaurant for giving him free sides and desserts as a loyal customer?

Come on people.

Nobody FORCES anyone to place a bet. Until that happens, all losses are the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PLAYER . End of story.

Enticement is NOT the same as incitement.

It's time people stopped blaming everyone else for their mistakes and accepted that GAMBLING is all about RISK - and if you CAN'T live with the RISK then DON'T GAMBLE.
 
What next?

An alcoholic who develops liver cancer sues a bartender for giving him free drinks, knowing that he had a drinking problem?

An obese person who has a heart attack sues their favorite restaurant for giving him free sides and desserts as a loyal customer?

Come on people.

Nobody FORCES anyone to place a bet. Until that happens, all losses are the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PLAYER . End of story.

Enticement is NOT the same as incitement.

It's time people stopped blaming everyone else for their mistakes and accepted that GAMBLING is all about RISK - and if you CAN'T live with the RISK then DON'T GAMBLE.


Are you mad? Well you are right there dude. Actually, we gamble all the time.
We take the risk every time.:thumbsup:
 
The question originally posed by rainmaker was
"Can a casino in some circumstances be liable for a player's gambling losses?"
Generally I would say no, but I believe in some cases they could actually be liable, the casino's way of acting being the determining factor.
Ain't that why we're at this forum, to rest assure that the casinos we choose measure up to certain ethical standards.
I welcome this case because if the actions of the casino(s) is highlighted what have we got to lose? Isn't that a good thing?
I have no knowledge of if a verdict in favour of either part would count as a prejudice, but still it will be interesting.
Casinos make their bucks on people's need for "recreational" playing and they make their bucks on people who have an addiction. Obviously they can't keep track of how solvent people are or how addictive they are,
but this is something out of the ordinary. I would say if the casino had some ethical standards they would at some point at least question the player's behavior.
Again, that's why I welcome it and believe it's interesting, what was the casino's line of action?

Emme
 
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