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Player sues casino

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by rainmaker, Mar 7, 2011.

    Mar 7, 2011
  1. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
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    Location:
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  2. Mar 7, 2011
  3. ksech

    ksech Dormant account

    Occupation:
    yes
    Location:
    Here
    Personally, I don't think an online casino would be responsible for repaying gambling losses if nothing illegal was done on their part. Now, if the player had opted to self-exclude due to a gambling problem, and then the casino allowed them to reopen their account, then I think they should be held PARTIALLY responsible for "aiding and abetting".

    Otherwise, how many other frustrated players would try to do the same thing? It all revolves around responsibility. A player has to take the responsibility each time they hit the deposit button. And yes, this has been hashed over and over again, but the player NEEDs to make sure they understand the terms and conditions for each online place they play at when they click that little "I agree to the terms and conditions" button. It's a virtual contract you are electronically signing when you choose to play at a casino.

    If players can start suing online casinos because they don't want to take responsibilty, players will start seeing even more obscure, ridiculous and farfetched T&Cs, JMO. CSR will be less likely to assist the "honest" player and players will be faced with more of the "talk to the hand" attitudes.

    When a person gambles online, it's not like the casino staff can get an up close and personal view of the person to see if they are mentally capable of taking on the responsibility of gambling. Also, even at B&Ms, casinos don't have financial statements for each and every player to ensure they are financially stable enough to gamble in the first place. Again, these are all just personal opinions on the matter.

    The world has turned into a sue crazy place. It seems some are out to do anything they can to bring down legitimate businesses and take the easy way in life.

    Just my two cents...
     
    6 people like this.
  4. Mar 7, 2011
  5. De Beuker

    De Beuker Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Production
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Yes I just read the blog.
    Rather difficult situation, it depends a bit on those playing patterns.

    Basically I'd say no, how could the casino know that he was mentally ill?
    They cannot possibly screen their players on that.

    But if the guy was really playing like an idiot, for example losing almost every hand of blackjack because he kept asking for a card, even if he had 19 or 20, they may have a case.

    But I suppose that someone who's clever enough to get 8 million in fraudulent loans is also clever enough to know the rules of casinogames and how to play them.
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Mar 7, 2011
  7. Nate

    Nate Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Monster
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    I Doubt it. I agree with alot of opinions about taking responsibility. The story is also based entirely on what the 'Player' has to say - No View from the Casino. Some people have problems (as in the case of the 8m loser) and Casinos should not be predatory in enticing a multi million loser to continue with crazy bonuses.

    Management would have been well aware of his tendancies and if they had approached him (to query if all was well) and he brushed them off - I wouldn't blame them.

    Anyways - opinions differ - but if there was a clear indicator that something was wrong, it should have been addressed.

    Nate
     
  8. Mar 7, 2011
  9. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    Here is a link to the story
    27 OCT 2010
    Foreign online gaming companies may be sued in Norway

    SPORTS ALERT (EMEA)
    Nick Fitzpatrick
    Nils Arne Grønlie
    Stine Baumann
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  10. Mar 7, 2011
  11. ksech

    ksech Dormant account

    Occupation:
    yes
    Location:
    Here
    Just curious, is this person's attorneys going after the institutions which allowed him/her to make the fraudulent loans too? If this person is intelligent enough to figure out how to get $8 million in fraudulent loans, then I would think that voids out any preconceived perception this person is mentally unstable.

    I'm not a lawayer and definitely have no clue about international law. But it seems to me there has to be some type of prescedense set, or online casinos will be deluged with lawsuits from every disgruntled gambler on the face of the planet.
     
  12. Mar 7, 2011
  13. baldidiot

    baldidiot Experienced Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    London
    There have been quite a few cases like this.

    A guy in the UK sued a bookies (will hill I think) after losing £2m. He lost, and the judge called him an idiot for try it.
     
  14. Mar 7, 2011
  15. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
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    Location:
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    I believe that there are no valid reasons for why a casino should be held responsible for gambling losses. Unless it is proven technical failures, etc.

    In their ruling, the Supreme Court did not take into consideration whether the player can be considered to be a "consumer " or not. Consumers have a very strong protection in Norway, so I will assume that there will be a dispute about this.

    In my view, this player can not be considered as s consumer. His gambling was his livelihood and therefore he is no consumer by Norwegian law.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2011
  16. Mar 7, 2011
  17. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
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    Location:
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    One person who lent out money to this man (about €3 mill), did sue the biggest bank in Norway (DnB NOR). She believed it was irresponsible of the bank to allow such large transfers to Moneybookers without anyone investigating the case. (laundering, etc. ..). She lost the case.

    (By the way, she is one of the wealthiest women in Norway:) )

    Yeah, he used Moneybookers :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2011
    1 person likes this.
  18. Mar 7, 2011
  19. Emmeline

    Emmeline Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    editing
    Location:
    Sweden
    This man was a guest in a talk show here a couple of years ago.
    His parents have had a major role in helping him raise the money.
    The woman who lent out half of the money was a friend of his parents. She did so thinking she was investing in a computer project in the Czech republic.

    So basically from what I remember and what I have read, the man lived in hotels mainly in the
    Czech republic, and asked his parents to help him finance his project.
    His parents who have huge debts because of their son declared themselves bankrupt in 2008.

    He said in the show it all started with one major hit. My impression from the show, well he didn't seem like the sharpest knife in the drawer, kind of naive, quiet and not eloquent at all.

    Emme
     
  20. Mar 7, 2011
  21. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
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    Location:
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    Yes, it is quite correct. His father was a bishop in Norway, but quitted his job because of this case.

    Somebody later stated "when a bishop quit, it`s either money or sexual relationships involved :rolleyes:
     
  22. Mar 7, 2011
  23. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    This case was discussed here at Casinomeister forums a couple of years ago:

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/online-casinos/26914-free-30-000-bonus-how.html

    There are links to several articles in that thread, here's the first two of them translated from Norwegian to English.

    An unthinkable cynical and raw industry (Translated from Norvegian):
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    He was an important customer (Translated from Norvegian):
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Based on that interview with former Bet365 employee it looks like the casino used very dirty tactics to make the player come back and lose more. So I didn't think that the casinos involved should be completely left off the hook regarding this case.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Mar 7, 2011
  25. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
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    Thanks for that Jufo :)

    I did see that old thread and it was mostly about Bet365. I find it a bit strange that this player only has sued Centrebet and not Bet365. But they may have settled or the player did not feel he had a good case against Bet365.
     
  26. Mar 7, 2011
  27. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    There was a case here in the city where some city employee went to the casino in his company vehicle and sat in the casino all day when he was supposed to be at work.

    And then there was some woman who embezzled hundreds of thousands of dollars from her employers so she could go feed the bandits.

    In the one case the player wasn't playing on his own time, in the other case the player wasn't playing with her own money - is the casino responsible for the losses in either case? Of course not - the responsibility is all on the player. In the second case I think the woman's employers may have had more of a case against the casino than this guy did. He got some of his money by lying, but this woman got hers by stealing.

    But this made me curious - I know there have been cases of an underaged player going to a casino and winning, and payout is denied because the player shouldn't have been there in the first place. Do they refund the money that the player had when they came in? What if the player loses and then proves that they're underage? Does the casino give back the losses? Does anyone know?
     
  28. Mar 8, 2011
  29. taysh075

    taysh075 Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    Work in mental health
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Hmmm, I agree with above posts that the casino shouldn't be liable. A couple of points off the top of my head. First, the 'mental illness' this man suffers from is addiction. These addictive behaviours, although compulsive, are essentially the choice of the individual (i.e., only the individual can choose to attempt to stop). It's a long hard road back but only by acknowledging their own responsibility and really wanting to stop can this occur. Blaming the casino is not the way to get there. It is simply looking to place external blame.

    Secondly, I work with those who are mentally unwell and it really gets me when this is paraded around as an excuse. The syndrome they talk about is related to some learning difficulties and possible mental retardation. It ranges from mild to severe. Now, given this man was commiting fraud by getting money for some business project, living independently, and supposedly working, I suspect he is 'high functioning'. In other words, the mental illness becomes yet another external excuse and generally does not impact too much on his day to day functioning and ability to make a decision. At the most it might predispose him to impulse control disorders (e.g., gambling) which he and his support network should have been aware of. It is not up to the casino to be aware of this, and in fact would be impossible (unless they demand medical certificate and histories from all their players).

    I don't know what the casino did to 'draw him in' (i.e., the tactics metioned). The only fact as I see it currently in the article is that this man is addicted to gambling. He obtained money fraudulently, gambled, lost and now wants to blame the casino, his 'mental illness, and probably everyone and everything other than stopping and taking responsibility. I fear for this person's recovery when he does not appear to be at a point of acknowledging his own liability in this situation.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Mar 8, 2011
  31. onlineprime08

    onlineprime08 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    plumber
    Location:
    USA
    No. I don't think casinos are responsible for that. It is the players' responsibility for losing.
     
  32. Mar 9, 2011
  33. cerdikola

    cerdikola Low Roller

    Occupation:
    ñ
    Location:
    Spain
    30k bonus? Aw come on! :lolup:

    The casinos knew he had a problem and they just tried to suck as much as they could from him.

    Take em' to the courts!
     
  34. Mar 9, 2011
  35. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

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    Location:
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    He was allegedly also given several trips around in Europe.

    Wish I was offered a nice vacation trip instead of a €100 bonus with x40 WR :p
     
  36. Mar 9, 2011
  37. De Beuker

    De Beuker Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Production
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Just deposit and lose 5 million in the coming weeks and I'm sure the VIP manager is going to take good care of you!:p
     
  38. Mar 9, 2011
  39. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    What next?

    An alcoholic who develops liver cancer sues a bartender for giving him free drinks, knowing that he had a drinking problem?

    An obese person who has a heart attack sues their favorite restaurant for giving him free sides and desserts as a loyal customer?

    Come on people.

    Nobody FORCES anyone to place a bet. Until that happens, all losses are the PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PLAYER . End of story.

    Enticement is NOT the same as incitement.

    It's time people stopped blaming everyone else for their mistakes and accepted that GAMBLING is all about RISK - and if you CAN'T live with the RISK then DON'T GAMBLE.
     
    3 people like this.

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