Pending periods/Reverse withdrawals should be abolished.

Valhalla

The Professional
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Jan 17, 2014
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Northern Ireland
I challenge ANY and ALL casinos who have any kind of pending period to respond to this thread with any valid argument as to why a withdraw should be pending at all ? I know they wont reply nor respond, Because they want a player to reverse such as 32Red who does not care less these days about the customer or player responsibility.

The only reps who have read this thread belong to Trada and VideoSlots, which doesn't surprise me - 2 of the fastest paying casinos around. They see the thread title and aren't remotely anxious about what might be within ;)

What does slightly bother me though, is that these reps still won't reply. I understand that they are all "in this business together" and so they don't want to cause any awkwardness, but still... would be nice if they added their input whilst taking the praise they rightfully deserve.
 

Playford7

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Utterly agree there should be no pending withdrawl times. They serve nobody but a greedy casino wanting you to reverse your winnings.
As one poster said the reason they do it is 'because the players wanted it' yeah right!...
Ok, that said how about a option across The board where a player has a option to reverse a withdrawl for 48hrs should they wish, but also a option soon as a withdrawl has been requested it can't be changed,only changed after 48hrs after customer request, kind of like rizk's lock withdrawls, now I really wonder how many should use the option to reverse within 48hrs hmmmm.
 

osulle

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Utterly agree there should be no pending withdrawl times. They serve nobody but a greedy casino wanting you to reverse your winnings.
As one poster said the reason they do it is 'because the players wanted it' yeah right!...
Ok, that said how about a option across The board where a player has a option to reverse a withdrawl for 48hrs should they wish, but also a option soon as a withdrawl has been requested it can't be changed,only changed after 48hrs after customer request, kind of like rizk's lock withdrawls, now I really wonder how many should use the option to reverse within 48hrs hmmmm.

True I have a withdrawal pending since last night at Verajohn and there is no way to reverse it which is good. That is the reason why I play at places like Verajohn and Videoslots, Rizk and others (sky vegas included) once you submit your withdrawal and in Rizks case lock it you cannot reverse it. Why can't all casinos be like this? I also think this issue ought to be dealt with by the UKCG i.e. ban reversing withdrawals but no they had to do some useless stuff like mess with the autospin:confused:
 

Playford7

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True I have a withdrawal pending since last night at Verajohn and there is no way to reverse it which is good. That is the reason why I play at places like Verajohn and Videoslots, Rizk and others (sky vegas included) once you submit your withdrawal and in Rizks case lock it you cannot reverse it. Why can't all casinos be like this? I also think this issue ought to be dealt with by the UKCG i.e. ban reversing withdrawals but no they had to do some useless stuff like mess with the autospin:confused:

The ukgc and that silly autospin idea they came up with was just a gesture to show there actively protecting players, when infact it does nothing of the kind.
Can't see them ever making locking withdrawals or no pending periods mandatory sadly as casinos make fortunes with reverse withdrawals and that means more tax income.
Would be lovely to see a few casinos chip in and contribute to this thread, but I really fail to see how They could at all justify this practice as it's clearly 100% rogue, no other way to put it sadly.
 

Betsson-Group

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Location
Malta
The top rated casinos here at CM all share one thing in common - fast withdrawals. There is only a single casino in the top 20 that enforces a mandatory pending period (24hrs); BetSafe. Ranked 20th (at the minute). The rest have either instant withdrawals, manual flushing, or near instant (0-5 hours). 32Red used to be the standard bearer, the flag carrier, but when did their crown slip? When they started added pending periods, removed manual flushing and weekend payouts. Now they are ranked 23rd, which is the equivalent of Manchester United being relegated. It's quite a drop. The further down the list you go, the longer the pending period gets.

Hi Valhalla,

I guess you base this assumption on the Betsafe review page: https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-reviews/betsafe/

The review page is outdated, as can be seen from the Casino Red and Casino Black part as well ;)

We do not have a mandatory pending time of 24 hours with Betsafe, and the withdrawal times are handled in the same manner as our other brands - as quickly as possible. Do however keep in mind that how quickly withdrawals are handled depends on the current workload, if any extra checks are needed etc. Although I understand your view that when your deposit is instant why can't your withdrawals be the same. Kindly keep in mind that any deposit from your bank, bankcard, skrill etc is guaranteed for and processed by your bank. We do however have to operate in accordance with our licensing meaning in many cases we are obliged to among other things do security checks, check for AML, fraud etc.

A large chunk of our withdrawals do get handled instantly and 24 hours are the expected longest waiting. If for any reason a withdrawal has been pending for more than 24 hours I encourage the player to contact our Customer Support so they can help looking into it.

I hope this clarifies any misgivings about our withdrawal process.

Best Regards,
Halvor
 

dunover

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I was going to say, Betsafe were far quicker than 24 hours when I played there.

Right, the UKGC or other LAs will do sod-all, that I can guarantee. They are a law to themselves and not connected to the customers like say the bodies that operate Financial Services or Banking are. The change will have to come from over their heads via Government or a court case. To debate the role of the frankly useless (as far as players are concerned) UKGC you will need to get a 100,000 signature petition up with these concerns on it. Then the time-filling staffers that it consists of mainly (retired Police/Military officers/Civil Servants) doing another 10-years' taxpayer-funded pensionable 'work' between 55 and 65 can be replaced by persons availed of some industry knowledge. Until that happens we are all merrily pissing into the wind. :(
 

Valhalla

The Professional
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Location
Northern Ireland
Hi Valhalla,

I guess you base this assumption on the Betsafe review page: https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-reviews/betsafe/

The review page is outdated, as can be seen from the Casino Red and Casino Black part as well ;)

We do not have a mandatory pending time of 24 hours with Betsafe, and the withdrawal times are handled in the same manner as our other brands - as quickly as possible. Do however keep in mind that how quickly withdrawals are handled depends on the current workload, if any extra checks are needed etc. Although I understand your view that when your deposit is instant why can't your withdrawals be the same. Kindly keep in mind that any deposit from your bank, bankcard, skrill etc is guaranteed for and processed by your bank. We do however have to operate in accordance with our licensing meaning in many cases we are obliged to among other things do security checks, check for AML, fraud etc.

A large chunk of our withdrawals do get handled instantly and 24 hours are the expected longest waiting. If for any reason a withdrawal has been pending for more than 24 hours I encourage the player to contact our Customer Support so they can help looking into it.

I hope this clarifies any misgivings about our withdrawal process.

Best Regards,
Halvor

Hi Halvor :D

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to reply here to this thread. Very much appreciated. Also thank you for clearing up the misunderstanding regarding BetSafe's withdrawal times.
My mentioning BetSafe wasn't to complain - I'm certain you will have seen me praising the Betsson group on here before. It was simply an example of how far down the list a casino is when they have an (apparent) long pending period. Personally I'm a big fan of Betsson and would recommend them to anyone.

Having said that, it still doesn't answer the question posed to begin with. Why can't casinos (you guys included) ensure all withdrawals are locked on request? They don't have to be processed immediately, I understand that that can't be expected. But why allow players to reverse? You do realise that Betsson are so highly regarded, and so well established, that if you went that extra step of locking withdrawals immediately on request, you'd quite literally be up there with the best in the business...

Strong license.
Huge variety of games.
Great customer service.
Active and helpful forum rep.
NO REVERSE TIME (that's all you're missing).

Potential rating 9.8 :cool:
 

nikantw

Banned User
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Location
EU
That wouldn't work either.
Just look at how the unregulated casinos operate.

Sure we may complain if regulated ones like 32red annoy us with reversal periods, but that is still leagues better than what we see in the regulation free abyss of Pamper Casino, Rushmore Group and so on.

“Regulated” doesn’t really mean anything if it is not by a respected authority that really does its job. And what is “unregulated”? Any country that doesn’t like online, or doesn’t have proper legislation, or favors one company, or just wants more taxes, calls “unregulated” and “illegal” and “blacklisted” the best casinos out there.

That said, I agree we can’t let everything free of supervision and rules. But what is happening today with every politician looking for more money, or more taxes, or better carrier through “regulating” the online gambling, is a farce.
 

dunover

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Hi Halvor :D

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to reply here to this thread. Very much appreciated. Also thank you for clearing up the misunderstanding regarding BetSafe's withdrawal times.
My mentioning BetSafe wasn't to complain - I'm certain you will have seen me praising the Betsson group on here before. It was simply an example of how far down the list a casino is when they have an (apparent) long pending period. Personally I'm a big fan of Betsson and would recommend them to anyone.

Having said that, it still doesn't answer the question posed to begin with. Why can't casinos (you guys included) ensure all withdrawals are locked on request? They don't have to be processed immediately, I understand that that can't be expected. But why allow players to reverse? You do realise that Betsson are so highly regarded, and so well established, that if you went that extra step of locking withdrawals immediately on request, you'd quite literally be up there with the best in the business...

Strong license.
Huge variety of games.
Great customer service.
Active and helpful forum rep.
NO REVERSE TIME (that's all you're missing).

Potential rating 9.8 :cool:

I think that is an unnecessary question to which we ALL know the 'great unsaid' answer to - it benefits the casino as a proportion of their negative balance sheet (i.e. player wins/withdrawals) is negated when they reverse and spunk it back. This figure is exponential to the length of time w/d's are pending. :thumbsup:

I have heard unconfirmed figures of between 20-35% of pending w/d's are spent back if the reverse period is 24-48 hours. :mad:
 

Kevin Stark

Newbie member
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Feb 3, 2017
Location
dublin
I fully agree with the author. If the withdrawal time takes more than a day, then it already looks suspicious. The most important core of reputation is the time of withdrawal. The less, the more confidence in online casinos. Standards should be established for such important things as the withdrawal of winnings. If the casino delays the withdrawal time, then this is a disrespect to their client. As if they consider him a fool who will endure all this. A very nasty trait for any online casino.
 

nikantw

Banned User
Joined
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Location
EU
I think that is an unnecessary question to which we ALL know the 'great unsaid' answer to - it benefits the casino as a proportion of their negative balance sheet (i.e. player wins/withdrawals) is negated when they reverse and spunk it back. This figure is exponential to the length of time w/d's are pending. :thumbsup:

I have heard unconfirmed figures of between 20-35% of pending w/d's are spent back if the reverse period is 24-48 hours. :mad:


One of my fav scenes. Applies perfectly for online casino. The money players have in a casino acc are not real! It is fugazi, fairy dust, they don’t exist. Player wants to make a withdrawal, you don’t let him. Because a withdrawal makes them real! That is how most in wall street and any other gambling industry think.
 
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Valhalla

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Location
Northern Ireland
One of my fav scenes. Applies perfectly for online casino. The money players have in a casino acc are not real! It is fugazi, fairy dust, they don’t exist. Player wants to make a withdrawal, you don’t let him. Because a withdrawal makes them real! That is how most in wall street and any other gambling industry think.

It's absolutely true as well. Many times I've deposited a small amount (like £50) and before I know it I'm sitting with a balance of £350. But it's just numbers on a screen, so I carry on playing, eventually bust out... and it doesn't matter. It was only £50.
Now if I had visited a B&M casino and found myself up £300 I would have no issue walking out the door because I have the cash in my hand. It's real, cold, hard, cash.

Online casinos play on this inability we players have to see our balances as cash, and many of them drag out the withdrawal process to make it seem even further away from real money. It's pretty sad really, but so many of them do it intentionally because of this.
 

Matti

Senior Member
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Apr 18, 2014
Location
Sweden
1. Plenty of casinos manage rapid withdrawals, and these are usually the best casinos around. I don't think they have any problems with getting customers either. I just can't imagine many players would genuinely kick up a stink if small fees were applied to withdrawals in order to ensure they were processed quickly (plenty of casinos do this, even the best ones).

2. I don't buy it. This might apply to the first couple of months of a casino's existence, but after that first 55 day period has passed, provided the casinos have a steady stream of players and deposits, there will be a steady stream of cash in and out to deal with. A bit like mortgage lending I guess.



Indeed. The instant automated payments were really just a side-comment, my main beef is with casinos leaving withdrawals sitting there for days, tempting us into reversing, hoping we do before the mandatory time has elapsed. There's really no need for it, and as I said in point 2 of my reply to Matti there, there's always going to be a steady stream of cash in and out, so why make players wait? Fast withdrawals mean happy RETURNING players. Isn't that the most important thing? Casinos that pay out quickly make far more money from me than a casino that enforces pending periods (they usually get nothing).

1. Sure the introduction of fees is a possibility but remember it is not only the withdrawal that costs with quick payouts. A consequence of quick withdrawals is a lot more deposits come from the same customer that re-deposits(I guess part of what was previously reversed). That cost money so to compensate for this part as well you then need to take charges on deposits. I know some casinos that do this today but personally I don't really like it.

2. A casino can't use the player funds as you indicate to fund this. That is illegal. This has to be funded by owners, loan or generated profits.
 

Valhalla

The Professional
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Location
Northern Ireland
1. Sure the introduction of fees is a possibility but remember it is not only the withdrawal that costs with quick payouts. A consequence of quick withdrawals is a lot more deposits come from the same customer that re-deposits(I guess part of what was previously reversed). That cost money so to compensate for this part as well you then need to take charges on deposits. I know some casinos that do this today but personally I don't really like it.

2. A casino can't use the player funds as you indicate to fund this. That is illegal. This has to be funded by owners, loan or generated profits.

Fair points. I'll return to my own main point - all things considered, casinos should at the very least simply remove the possibility to reverse withdrawals. Doesn't matter how long the pending period is, just remove the temptation...
 

Playford7

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And still we wait for a casino to chime in and tell us why this rogue practice is still very widely used....
 

Nate

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Its only because some of them are greedy bastards :mad:

Common Excuses:

We need your documents
Sorry, the staff were unable to verify your documents
Our payments team have left for the day
Withdrawals take up to 24 hours to process


Sorry to say, there are LOTS of casinos in the accredited section that pull this total bullshit on a daily basis. I have been victim to it more than a dozen times. Just when I think ok, let me try someone else, I get the dreaded pending period and several excuses as to why it was delayed. Then i remember why i didnt play there to begin with.

These muckers accept MONEY 24/7 but make every possible excuse in the book to delay payments. IMPO they are SCUM, bottom feeders and are desperate enough to stall legitimate winnings so they can line their pockets. Its something that is a pet hate for me. I have ZERO respect for those who employ these tactics and the dirty reps who defend it.

KUDOS to Videoslots and Casumo - Who IMPO are industry leaders in quick payments.

Nate
 

dunover

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Casinos with NO reverse possible that I know of - feel free to add any yourselves:

Fun88
Novibet
Grosvenor
(Rizk by ringfencing)
Sky Vegas
Mecca Games
Paddy Power
Boyle Casino
Ladbrokes?
Coral?
BetEast
Betvision
Bet365


Now note most are big bookies, used to paying out on demand via land-based shops.

I also notice that most if not all of the IoM - licensed casinos such as Novibet and Beteast etc. never seem to have a reversal possible, which is why I trawled the IoM list of licensees to check which ones also have UKGC licenses so I could add them to my site.

I'm not sure why this is, I don't believe the IoM forbids reversals but it seems odd.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
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Casinos with NO reverse possible that I know of - feel free to add any yourselves:

Fun88
Novibet
Grosvenor
(Rizk by ringfencing)
Sky Vegas
Mecca Games
Paddy Power
Boyle Casino
Ladbrokes?
Coral?
BetEast
Betvision
Bet365


Now note most are big bookies, used to paying out on demand via land-based shops.

I also notice that most if not all of the IoM - licensed casinos such as Novibet and Beteast etc. never seem to have a reversal possible, which is why I trawled the IoM list of licensees to check which ones also have UKGC licenses so I could add them to my site.

I'm not sure why this is, I don't believe the IoM forbids reversals but it seems odd.

Coral definitely don't. MrGreen don't, Videoslots don't, slottyvegas don't do they?
 

brianmon

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KUDOS to Videoslots and Casumo - Who IMPO are industry leaders in quick payments.

Nate

I've found with both Videoslots and casumo, they pay quickly IF you withdraw your entire balance or logout and stop playing.

BUT, if you withdraw part of your balance and continue playing with the remainder, the withdrawal isn't processed and remains reversible, until you either lose your remaining balance or you logout. I've had withdrawals pending and reversible for hours, while I've continued playing.

So, while not as guilty as most casinos, they do still sometimes wait for the opportunity for a reversal
 
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