Pending periods/Reverse withdrawals should be abolished.

[dunover]

I was going to say, Betsafe were far quicker than 24 hours when I played there.

Right, the UKGC or other LAs will do sod-all, that I can guarantee. They are a law to themselves and not connected to the customers like say the bodies that operate Financial Services or Banking are. The change will have to come from over their heads via Government or a court case. To debate the role of the frankly useless (as far as players are concerned) UKGC you will need to get a 100,000 signature petition up with these concerns on it. Then the time-filling staffers that it consists of mainly (retired Police/Military officers/Civil Servants) doing another 10-years' taxpayer-funded pensionable 'work' between 55 and 65 can be replaced by persons availed of some industry knowledge. Until that happens we are all merrily pissing into the wind.

 

[Valhalla]

Hi Valhalla,

I guess you base this assumption on the Betsafe review page: https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-reviews/betsafe/

The review page is outdated, as can be seen from the Casino Red and Casino Black part as well

We do not have a mandatory pending time of 24 hours with Betsafe, and the withdrawal times are handled in the same manner as our other brands - as quickly as possible. Do however keep in mind that how quickly withdrawals are handled depends on the current workload, if any extra checks are needed etc. Although I understand your view that when your deposit is instant why can't your withdrawals be the same. Kindly keep in mind that any deposit from your bank, bankcard, skrill etc is guaranteed for and processed by your bank. We do however have to operate in accordance with our licensing meaning in many cases we are obliged to among other things do security checks, check for AML, fraud etc.

A large chunk of our withdrawals do get handled instantly and 24 hours are the expected longest waiting. If for any reason a withdrawal has been pending for more than 24 hours I encourage the player to contact our Customer Support so they can help looking into it.

I hope this clarifies any misgivings about our withdrawal process.

Best Regards,
Halvor

Hi Halvor

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to reply here to this thread. Very much appreciated. Also thank you for clearing up the misunderstanding regarding BetSafe's withdrawal times.
My mentioning BetSafe wasn't to complain - I'm certain you will have seen me praising the Betsson group on here before. It was simply an example of how far down the list a casino is when they have an (apparent) long pending period. Personally I'm a big fan of Betsson and would recommend them to anyone.

Having said that, it still doesn't answer the question posed to begin with. Why can't casinos (you guys included) ensure all withdrawals are locked on request? They don't have to be processed immediately, I understand that that can't be expected. But why allow players to reverse? You do realise that Betsson are so highly regarded, and so well established, that if you went that extra step of locking withdrawals immediately on request, you'd quite literally be up there with the best in the business...

Strong license.
Huge variety of games.
Great customer service.
Active and helpful forum rep.
NO REVERSE TIME (that's all you're missing).

Potential rating 9.8

 

[nikantw]

That wouldn't work either.
Just look at how the unregulated casinos operate.

Sure we may complain if regulated ones like 32red annoy us with reversal periods, but that is still leagues better than what we see in the regulation free abyss of Pamper Casino, Rushmore Group and so on.

“Regulated” doesn’t really mean anything if it is not by a respected authority that really does its job. And what is “unregulated”? Any country that doesn’t like online, or doesn’t have proper legislation, or favors one company, or just wants more taxes, calls “unregulated” and “illegal” and “blacklisted” the best casinos out there.

That said, I agree we can’t let everything free of supervision and rules. But what is happening today with every politician looking for more money, or more taxes, or better carrier through “regulating” the online gambling, is a farce.

 

[dunover]

Hi Halvor

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to reply here to this thread. Very much appreciated. Also thank you for clearing up the misunderstanding regarding BetSafe's withdrawal times.
My mentioning BetSafe wasn't to complain - I'm certain you will have seen me praising the Betsson group on here before. It was simply an example of how far down the list a casino is when they have an (apparent) long pending period. Personally I'm a big fan of Betsson and would recommend them to anyone.

Having said that, it still doesn't answer the question posed to begin with. Why can't casinos (you guys included) ensure all withdrawals are locked on request? They don't have to be processed immediately, I understand that that can't be expected. But why allow players to reverse? You do realise that Betsson are so highly regarded, and so well established, that if you went that extra step of locking withdrawals immediately on request, you'd quite literally be up there with the best in the business...

Strong license.
Huge variety of games.
Great customer service.
Active and helpful forum rep.
NO REVERSE TIME (that's all you're missing).

Potential rating 9.8

I think that is an unnecessary question to which we ALL know the 'great unsaid' answer to - it benefits the casino as a proportion of their negative balance sheet (i.e. player wins/withdrawals) is negated when they reverse and spunk it back. This figure is exponential to the length of time w/d's are pending.

I have heard unconfirmed figures of between 20-35% of pending w/d's are spent back if the reverse period is 24-48 hours.

 

[Kevin Stark]

I fully agree with the author. If the withdrawal time takes more than a day, then it already looks suspicious. The most important core of reputation is the time of withdrawal. The less, the more confidence in online casinos. Standards should be established for such important things as the withdrawal of winnings. If the casino delays the withdrawal time, then this is a disrespect to their client. As if they consider him a fool who will endure all this. A very nasty trait for any online casino.

 

[nikantw]

I think that is an unnecessary question to which we ALL know the 'great unsaid' answer to - it benefits the casino as a proportion of their negative balance sheet (i.e. player wins/withdrawals) is negated when they reverse and spunk it back. This figure is exponential to the length of time w/d's are pending.

I have heard unconfirmed figures of between 20-35% of pending w/d's are spent back if the reverse period is 24-48 hours.

One of my fav scenes. Applies perfectly for online casino. The money players have in a casino acc are not real! It is fugazi, fairy dust, they don’t exist. Player wants to make a withdrawal, you don’t let him. Because a withdrawal makes them real! That is how most in wall street and any other gambling industry think.

 

[Valhalla]

One of my fav scenes. Applies perfectly for online casino. The money players have in a casino acc are not real! It is fugazi, fairy dust, they don’t exist. Player wants to make a withdrawal, you don’t let him. Because a withdrawal makes them real! That is how most in wall street and any other gambling industry think.

It's absolutely true as well. Many times I've deposited a small amount (like £50) and before I know it I'm sitting with a balance of £350. But it's just numbers on a screen, so I carry on playing, eventually bust out... and it doesn't matter. It was only £50.
Now if I had visited a B&M casino and found myself up £300 I would have no issue walking out the door because I have the cash in my hand. It's real, cold, hard, cash.

Online casinos play on this inability we players have to see our balances as cash, and many of them drag out the withdrawal process to make it seem even further away from real money. It's pretty sad really, but so many of them do it intentionally because of this.

 

[Matti]

1. Plenty of casinos manage rapid withdrawals, and these are usually the best casinos around. I don't think they have any problems with getting customers either. I just can't imagine many players would genuinely kick up a stink if small fees were applied to withdrawals in order to ensure they were processed quickly (plenty of casinos do this, even the best ones).

2. I don't buy it. This might apply to the first couple of months of a casino's existence, but after that first 55 day period has passed, provided the casinos have a steady stream of players and deposits, there will be a steady stream of cash in and out to deal with. A bit like mortgage lending I guess.



Indeed. The instant automated payments were really just a side-comment, my main beef is with casinos leaving withdrawals sitting there for days, tempting us into reversing, hoping we do before the mandatory time has elapsed. There's really no need for it, and as I said in point 2 of my reply to Matti there, there's always going to be a steady stream of cash in and out, so why make players wait? Fast withdrawals mean happy RETURNING players. Isn't that the most important thing? Casinos that pay out quickly make far more money from me than a casino that enforces pending periods (they usually get nothing).

1. Sure the introduction of fees is a possibility but remember it is not only the withdrawal that costs with quick payouts. A consequence of quick withdrawals is a lot more deposits come from the same customer that re-deposits(I guess part of what was previously reversed). That cost money so to compensate for this part as well you then need to take charges on deposits. I know some casinos that do this today but personally I don't really like it.

2. A casino can't use the player funds as you indicate to fund this. That is illegal. This has to be funded by owners, loan or generated profits.

 

[Valhalla]

1. Sure the introduction of fees is a possibility but remember it is not only the withdrawal that costs with quick payouts. A consequence of quick withdrawals is a lot more deposits come from the same customer that re-deposits(I guess part of what was previously reversed). That cost money so to compensate for this part as well you then need to take charges on deposits. I know some casinos that do this today but personally I don't really like it.

2. A casino can't use the player funds as you indicate to fund this. That is illegal. This has to be funded by owners, loan or generated profits.

Fair points. I'll return to my own main point - all things considered, casinos should at the very least simply remove the possibility to reverse withdrawals. Doesn't matter how long the pending period is, just remove the temptation...

 

[Playford7]

And still we wait for a casino to chime in and tell us why this rogue practice is still very widely used....

 

[dunover]

And still we wait for a casino to chime in and tell us why this rogue practice is still very widely used....

I already told you all - take the silence as their tacit agreement...

 

[Nate]

Its only because some of them are greedy bastards

Common Excuses:

We need your documents
Sorry, the staff were unable to verify your documents
Our payments team have left for the day
Withdrawals take up to 24 hours to process


Sorry to say, there are LOTS of casinos in the accredited section that pull this total bullshit on a daily basis. I have been victim to it more than a dozen times. Just when I think ok, let me try someone else, I get the dreaded pending period and several excuses as to why it was delayed. Then i remember why i didnt play there to begin with.

These muckers accept MONEY 24/7 but make every possible excuse in the book to delay payments. IMPO they are SCUM, bottom feeders and are desperate enough to stall legitimate winnings so they can line their pockets. Its something that is a pet hate for me. I have ZERO respect for those who employ these tactics and the dirty reps who defend it.

KUDOS to Videoslots and Casumo - Who IMPO are industry leaders in quick payments.

Nate

 

[dunover]

Casinos with NO reverse possible that I know of - feel free to add any yourselves:

Fun88
Novibet
Grosvenor
(Rizk by ringfencing)
Sky Vegas
Mecca Games
Paddy Power
Boyle Casino
Ladbrokes?
Coral?
BetEast
Betvision
Bet365


Now note most are big bookies, used to paying out on demand via land-based shops.

I also notice that most if not all of the IoM - licensed casinos such as Novibet and Beteast etc. never seem to have a reversal possible, which is why I trawled the IoM list of licensees to check which ones also have UKGC licenses so I could add them to my site.

I'm not sure why this is, I don't believe the IoM forbids reversals but it seems odd.

 

[colinsunderland]

Casinos with NO reverse possible that I know of - feel free to add any yourselves:

Fun88
Novibet
Grosvenor
(Rizk by ringfencing)
Sky Vegas
Mecca Games
Paddy Power
Boyle Casino
Ladbrokes?
Coral?
BetEast
Betvision
Bet365


Now note most are big bookies, used to paying out on demand via land-based shops.

I also notice that most if not all of the IoM - licensed casinos such as Novibet and Beteast etc. never seem to have a reversal possible, which is why I trawled the IoM list of licensees to check which ones also have UKGC licenses so I could add them to my site.

I'm not sure why this is, I don't believe the IoM forbids reversals but it seems odd.

Coral definitely don't. MrGreen don't, Videoslots don't, slottyvegas don't do they?

 

[brianmon]

KUDOS to Videoslots and Casumo - Who IMPO are industry leaders in quick payments.

Nate

I've found with both Videoslots and casumo, they pay quickly IF you withdraw your entire balance or logout and stop playing.

BUT, if you withdraw part of your balance and continue playing with the remainder, the withdrawal isn't processed and remains reversible, until you either lose your remaining balance or you logout. I've had withdrawals pending and reversible for hours, while I've continued playing.

So, while not as guilty as most casinos, they do still sometimes wait for the opportunity for a reversal

 

[colinsunderland]

I've found with both Videoslots and casumo, they pay quickly IF you withdraw your entire balance or logout and stop playing.

BUT, if you withdraw part of your balance and continue playing with the remainder, the withdrawal isn't processed and remains reversible, until you either lose your remaining balance or you logout. I've had withdrawals pending and reversible for hours, while I've continued playing.

So, while not as guilty as most casinos, they do still sometimes wait for the opportunity for a reversal

I must say I've never had that with either casino and I play a lot at both. Usually when I withdraw it will be something like, deposit £50, get up to £350, withdraw £250, keep playing, if I hit £300 again, I'll withdraw £200, leaving myself £100 each time. I've never had a withdrawal from either take more than about 20 minutes from either casino from what I can remember, certainly both have paid while I've still been playing.

 

[cj1990]

Casinos with NO reverse possible that I know of - feel free to add any yourselves:

Fun88
Novibet
Grosvenor
(Rizk by ringfencing)
Sky Vegas
Mecca Games
Paddy Power
Boyle Casino
Ladbrokes?
Coral?
BetEast
Betvision
Bet365


Now note most are big bookies, used to paying out on demand via land-based shops.

I also notice that most if not all of the IoM - licensed casinos such as Novibet and Beteast etc. never seem to have a reversal possible, which is why I trawled the IoM list of licensees to check which ones also have UKGC licenses so I could add them to my site.

I'm not sure why this is, I don't believe the IoM forbids reversals but it seems odd.

Don't suppose you have a list for U.S folk ?

 

[BlaCGaming]

What I think also happens with everyone and everytime is that when you either withdraw before KYC or to another payment method then the one you used to cash in they reverse the withdrawal and put it back into your account.

Its stupid and unnecessary, leave it pending until the player is verified. For payment methods, just change it yourself (I´ve had casinos reverse it and not telling me/emailing me about it so it just sat there and I had to ask the live chat as to why).

 

[Valhalla]

Its only because some of them are greedy bastards

Common Excuses:

We need your documents
Sorry, the staff were unable to verify your documents
Our payments team have left for the day
Withdrawals take up to 24 hours to process


Sorry to say, there are LOTS of casinos in the accredited section that pull this total bullshit on a daily basis. I have been victim to it more than a dozen times. Just when I think ok, let me try someone else, I get the dreaded pending period and several excuses as to why it was delayed. Then i remember why i didnt play there to begin with.

These muckers accept MONEY 24/7 but make every possible excuse in the book to delay payments. IMPO they are SCUM, bottom feeders and are desperate enough to stall legitimate winnings so they can line their pockets. Its something that is a pet hate for me. I have ZERO respect for those who employ these tactics and the dirty reps who defend it.

KUDOS to Videoslots and Casumo - Who IMPO are industry leaders in quick payments.

Nate

Thanks for that very well-worded and frank post. You are absolutely right.

I've found with both Videoslots and casumo, they pay quickly IF you withdraw your entire balance or logout and stop playing.

BUT, if you withdraw part of your balance and continue playing with the remainder, the withdrawal isn't processed and remains reversible, until you either lose your remaining balance or you logout. I've had withdrawals pending and reversible for hours, while I've continued playing.

So, while not as guilty as most casinos, they do still sometimes wait for the opportunity for a reversal

I'm certain these guys will flush your withdrawal though, unless someone can correct me? Same with Slotty Vegas and BetAT; I've had withdrawals pending for up to an hour there lol, but they will flush it on request. I'm sure of that.

Here's what I think:

There are casinos that want to pay you your winnings. And there are casinos who pay you because they have to. And there is a difference.

 

[dunover]

Don't suppose you have a list for U.S folk ?

As far as I know the only US-Facing site that does instant w/d's for certain methods like Bitcoin is Casino Extreme. I have taken them off my sites because for some reason I tried logging into the affy account yesterday and it's blocked, details won't work so a bit suspicious there.

You're better off getting in contact with KasinoKing as he specializes in US players, knows far more than I do.

 

[Dan.Videoslots]

Hello everyone.

There is no difference withdrawing your full balance or part of it, it gets handled in the exact same way and the same time frame.

Should you have any specific questions regarding how our payments work, please feel free to send me a message and I will do my best to explain.

Best regards,
Daniel.

 

[Jasminebed]

One thing I would like to see improved at Videoslots is the ability to withdraw while awaiting KYC verification. It's fine with me if it were to sit pending until such time, especially if staff can lock down the funds. Those that use prepaid vouchers or disposable credit cards need to do this over and over.

A huge problem is casinos that have weekly/month limits, and require players to keep logging in to make withdrawals with remaining balances sitting there.

It's one thing to sit tight over a weekend, but much tougher over a period of weeks or months. Just let me withdraw the entire sum, and proceed to issue me my payments weekly until it is paid. If you allow me to continue to deposit during this period, I probably will, as my payments roll in.

 

[Valhalla]

Hello everyone.

There is no difference withdrawing your full balance or part of it, it gets handled in the exact same way and the same time frame.

Should you have any specific questions regarding how our payments work, please feel free to send me a message and I will do my best to explain.

Best regards,
Daniel.

Thanks for the reply Daniel!
I sincerely doubt anyone will have any questions since you guys are in a small group of casinos who do things properly. Rapid processing of withdrawals is paramount, and you're already there so... happy days

 

[kanajorma]

Only way to change casino pending times is stop playing in these casinos.
Reason why i close my XX account finally. Lot of text about taking care of gambling and same time pop-ups for deposits with card details filled also with cvv number,pending time days etc. Only play few casinos anymore,mainly in VS since there is allmost instant withdraws and several game provider.

 

[ricky]

Nothing will happen unless you write to your local MP

AND btw this should be a massive arguing point against limiting stakes on `fobt's

"Online you can win and they can stuff you with payment and allow you to reverse withdrawals hoping that you lose, here you can take the money by cash straight away"