Your Input Please Paimonah vs Bitkingz

[Paimonah]

Hello everyone.
Yes, there is trouble again with a Dama casino. This time it's Bitkingz, I've already contacted the rep!
I've now been waiting 4 days for my payout. To make it as short as possible:

- Duration of the pending phase for payouts (although I've been waiting for weekend payouts for 4 days now)
- Duration of account verification (I uploaded my documents 2 YEARS ago and it was still pending - probably because I only deposited but didn't withdraw)
- The casino keeps canceling the payout, again and again!

I mean, why are they doing this? Why this delaying tactic?
I can only imagine why...! ;-)

- Why does the casino require documents from the options with which you deposited, but it is no longer possible to withdraw using one of these options? Can that even be possible?
They tell me a payout is only possible with a bank transfer, which I don't want at all!!!!

I just can't believe that you have no other choice when there are so many other options!
Why is only one option possible?

Is it the same for you that you are told WHICH option you have for a payout? Without ever depositing using this single method? I really can't believe this!
Or to put it another way: Why can't I withdraw using a method that I have already used to deposit and that is also verified?!?

Why are you forced to do this?
Why should you necessarily choose the other option? Just because the casino wants it that way???
Simply because they need EVEN MORE documents than required???

Do you already have something like this at Dama N.V. experienced?

 

[maxd]

Hello,

As you'll see I've changed your thread title, largely due to the fact that you seem to have a major problem with Dama of late. FWIW just coming here to slag them off is not going to improve the quality of your life.

My experience with Dama over the past several years has been that they are one of the most professional, attentive and player-focused groups I've had the pleasure of dealing with. That is especially remarkable because they are a large group with many casinos and many, many players. Most groups that reach even a fraction of their size turn into corporate machines that can't do anything but feed the money-hungry beast that they've become. With Dama though I've always had a excellent, personal contact with them and a relationship which (I believe) is based on mutual respect.

So, you coming on the forums to drag Dama through the mud does not sit well with me. I totally understand that you might have questions about how they do things the way they do and why. Lovely, asking questions to get answers is fine. That does not give you leave to make insinuations about their "motives" or to cast the group as a whole in a bad light. Some of your issues are very casino specific, not Dama issues per se, so in that regard you're barking up the wrong tree.

It must also be said that from what I know of dealing with your PABs you have been partially responsible for some of the problems you've encountered at their casinos. I'm not trying to discredit you but I am trying to bring some balance to this. From what I've seen you've made a lot of assumptions without taking the context into consideration, a context that you are partially responsible for.

So, ask your questions, but until there is good evidence to support your insinuations against Dama please leave the dark forebodings out of it.

- Max

 

[Paimonah]

Hello,

As you'll see I've changed your thread title, largely due to the fact that you seem to have a major problem with Dama of late. FWIW just coming here to slag them off is not going to improve the quality of your life.

My experience with Dama over the past several years has been that they are one of the most professional, attentive and player-focused groups I've had the pleasure of dealing with. That is especially remarkable because they are a large group with many casinos and many, many players. Most groups that reach even a fraction of their size turn into corporate machines that can't do anything but feed the money-hungry beast that they've become. With Dama though I've always had a excellent, personal contact with them and a relationship which (I believe) is based on mutual respect.

So, you coming on the forums to drag them through the mud does not sit well with me. I totally understand that you might have questions about how they do things the way they do and why. Lovely, asking questions to get answers is fine. That does not give you leave to make insinuations about their "motives" or to cast the group as a whole in a bad light.

It must also be said that from what I know of dealing with your PABs you have been partially responsible for some of the problems you've encountered at their casinos. I'm not trying to discredit you but I am trying to bring some balance to this. From what I've seen you've made a lot of assumptions without taking the context into consideration, a context that you are partially responsible for.

So, ask your questions, but until there is good evidence to support your insinuations against Dama please leave the dark forebodings out of it.

- Max

Hi Max.
First of all, thank you for your answer.
The fact that the title of this thread was changed is not a problem for me.

But please don't say that I only comment on "forums" to badmouth Dama! Why do you think that? I only write here and have not written anything in any other forum!
I also don't want to badmouth Dama because I know THAT they pay!

As a customer, I just dislike the circumstances, as I have already explained.
It could well be that it's due to communication (lack of English skills on my part), but I'm sure even if I don't write everything (grammatically correct) that people will still understand what I mean and write!
Max, I know that I'm paid by Dama - that's not my concern. But I still think my questions are legitimate and I find it strange why there are no answers to my questions.

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand when it first says: "You can ONLY withdraw with the deposit method, but then it is expected that you can ONLY withdraw with bank transfer even though you have never deposited with it and the other methods with which you have already deposited and are already verified is suddenly NOT possible!
That's why I just wanted to know if others here in the forum have experienced it.

Forgive me if these (in my opinion completely legitimate) questions are too “uncomfortable”.
I didn't want to upset anyone here! That was not my intention!

 

[maxd]

I'm sorry but saying things like "Why this delaying tactic? I can only imagine why...! ;-)" isn't intended to be a fair and unbiased way to ask reasonable questions. I get that you're frustrated but let's try to be adults about these things and not make pretend.

Ok, as to questions: I've already said that fair questions are fair game here, always have been. In no way did I say or imply that your questions "are too uncomfortable". In fact I said nothing either way on that matter because I simply don't know yet what the casinos and/or Dama will think of them. As soon as we can get to the point here where questions are being asked in a respectful manner we can proceed to finding a way for you to get the answers you seek.

FWIW I am in touch with Dama to determine what Q&A process with work for them given that they don't currently have an active presence on the forums. In other words I too think you deserve the chance to ask your questions and have them answered, just so we're clear about that.

- Max

 

[Paimonah]

You are also welcome to remove the name of the casino and the group in my posts, as I don't want to denigrate them!

I seem to remember reading somewhere that other players were also dissatisfied with the time it took to pay out, the verification process and so on. I didn't know I was the only one here who saw it that way.
But apparently I'm too impatient myself... I just assumed that 4 days was a long time. I've already experienced it faster, so maybe that's why I'm so impatient. I'm sorry for that!

But please, remove the casino names and group. Because that's really not my point!

 

[maxd]

To repeat what I've said earlier, my understanding is that you are at least partially responsible for the troubles you've been having at Dama casinos. In particular I've been told that you make a habit of not following the directions given to you by the casino staff regarding payments arrangements. Maybe you agree that that is true, maybe you don't, but the point is that that's something to be ironed out between you and the casino -- or at least so attempted -- and not dumped onto the forums in lieu of due process for jury by public opinion.

The Dama people I am in contact with repeat that they are willing to look into any issue regarding problems at a Dama property but if and only if the player can show that the operator has either:

1. refused to help.
2. was not responsive at all.
3. follows highly questionable practices.

These are not unreasonable requests and as such we will expect anyone posting on these forums regarding Dama or an individual Dama property to demonstrate exactly that.

- Max

 

[Paimonah]

Don't worry, I once again followed what the casino asked: Pay out using methods that I normally would NOT want to use!!!
Don't you think there's a reason why you choose which options you use to deposit and then get paid out?
It will definitely be a very big misunderstanding as to why I can't get answers to my questions (both in chats, emails and here)!
And honestly, I think I asked some very legitimate questions!
All I know is that my questions still haven't been answered and I'm still in the dark

 

[maxd]

Yes, answers would be good, and as I've said at least twice now I'm working on that with them now. Consider it a "work in progress" while we iron this out.

I feel like I should say a few words about this in terms of historical precedent and so forth: casinos are notoriously reluctant to engage with players on Q&A stuff like you're proposing. Frankly I've only encountered a handful of casino people over the years that would answer such questions in a (relatively) free and open exchange and then only because I had known them personally for a decade or two and they knew I wasn't going to ambush them with what I learned.

Say what you will about that but the bottom line is that most casinos and/or casino groups would simply say "everything we have to say is in the Terms" and slam the door shut, end of discussion. So that fact that we might be able to get your questions answered here is a testament to quality of the people I'm dealing with at Dama. No one is going to thank them for it and remember their willingness to participate but they sure as hell should. It's a gross understatement to say "it doesn't happen every day".

- Max

 

[Paimonah]

I agree with you completely.
I never said they didn't pay, but all my questions make it seem so confusing. Excuse me.

I only mean that if the casinos explained everything transparently in their conditions, for example that only ONE PAYOUT OPTION (and then which one) is possible even though the player can see several options for both deposits and withdrawals in the software, then they have the player still has the opportunity to decide FOR HIMSELF whether he agrees with this one option or not!!!

I think it's not too difficult to note this in the conditions.
Because then questions like the ones I had wouldn't even arise and everything would be easier.

But that's just my personal opinion ;-)

 

[maxd]

Ok, I have received a response to the OP's original questions. My contact stresses that this is a one-off as a courtesy to the OP and that any further issues of this nature should go through the normal procedures, PABs if necessary.

Text in italics is the OP's original text.
Text in bold is the response.

---

I've now been waiting 4 days for my payout. To make it as short as possible:

- Duration of the pending phase for payouts (although I've been waiting for weekend payouts for 4 days now)
- Duration of account verification (I uploaded my documents 2 YEARS ago and it was still pending - probably because I only deposited but didn't withdraw)
- The casino keeps canceling the payout, again and again!

Apologies, but you did not wait for 4 days - 3 days of waiting and 6 canceled withdrawal requests.

All of them were canceled with an automated explanation message sent to you, e.g:

Hi,​

We regret to inform you that your recent withdrawal request has been declined due to incomplete account verification.​

To proceed with your request, we kindly ask you to upload the following documents to your profile's "Verification" tab:​

Payment methods:​

To complete the verification of your payment method, we require you to upload clear photos of the front and back of the card ending in the *8154 .​

Please ensure the following details are clearly visible:​

Front of the Card:​

First 6 digits and last 4 digits of the card number are visible​

Account holder name​

Expiry date of the card​

Please cover the middle numbers​

Once we receive and verify these photos, we will proceed with the necessary steps to validate your payment method.​

Kindly note that on the proof already received all 4 corners of documents are not clearly visible.​

Additionally we kindly request you to upload a full desktop screenshot for the deposit 50 EUR made on 2024-05-11 04:34:22 AM UTC time.​

Please ensure the following details are clearly visible:​

Your full name​

Full account number​

Date and time of deposit​

(50 EUR made on 2024-05-11 04:34:22 AM UTC time.)​

Merchant details (clearly shown)​

Amount of deposit​

Thank you.​

Once you have submitted the requested documents, you request the withdrawal to be sent to the Mifinity e-wallet, which was never used before. You have been informed that payments to the Neteller account used to deposit are unavailable, yet you created new withdrawal requests again to Mifinity and even to crypto.

I mean, why are they doing this? Why this delaying tactic?
I can only imagine why...! ;-)

Our opinion is that the situation is already pretty clear - the casino did not delay your payout, they have an obligation to verify your account before withdrawal. Most of the withdrawals were canceled because you did not follow the instructions and continued to order the payment where you saw fit.

- Why does the casino require documents from the options with which you deposited, but it is no longer possible to withdraw using one of these options? Can that even be possible?
They tell me a payout is only possible with a bank transfer, which I don't want at all!!!!

Please feel free to consult casino support services before depositing to inquire which payment methods are available for depositing and withdrawing. Payment providers and methods are always changing, e.g old ones are disabled with new ones available etc.

In general, the best tactic is to choose one payment method (best if available both for depositing and withdrawing) and use it - the casino would have less questions for you during verification process.

I just can't believe that you have no other choice when there are so many other options!
Why is only one option possible?

If casino guys say that only one option is available, that would mean that only this option is available.

Is it the same for you that you are told WHICH option you have for a payout? Without ever depositing using this single method? I really can't believe this!
Or to put it another way: Why can't I withdraw using a method that I have already used to deposit and that is also verified?!?

Why are you forced to do this?
Why should you necessarily choose the other option? Just because the casino wants it that way???
Simply because they need EVEN MORE documents than required???

Do you already have something like this at Dama N.V. experienced?

No comment required, questions already answered.

 

[Paimonah]

Thank you for answering my questions.
Unfortunately you forgot to mention that the casino advised me SEVERAL TIMES that I should withdraw using the same method I used to deposit (which I would have appreciated), but unfortunately I wasn't able to - I sent a screenshot of this , but unfortunately it wasn't looked at, and I got the answer that I should pay out using the same method I used to deposit!
I pointed out again that you should read my answer first and look at the screenshot!
Only AFTER was it said that I only had ONE ALTERNATIVE. And yes, that's right, I even tried to pay out with crypto, as I had already deposited with crypto some time ago.
What's wrong with that again?

Since I submitted and had to accept it, everything has now been clarified ;-)

Don't worry, I don't have any further questions about this!

 

[Avernite]

Had a similar issue with BitKingz that ended up costing me the withdrawal (240ish) because the minimum bank withdrawal was $300 (had deposited with my preferred withdrawal method before). They never bothered to fix the situation and ended up losing me as a customer not long after.

I get the need for closed loop payments but the alternative should at least be reasonable.

 

[Paimonah]

Had a similar issue with BitKingz that ended up costing me the withdrawal (240ish) because the minimum bank withdrawal was $300 (had deposited with my preferred withdrawal method before). They never bothered to fix the situation and ended up losing me as a customer not long after.

I get the need for closed loop payments but the alternative should at least be reasonable.

Yes, that's exactly what I think, that alternatives should be possible.

Especially since I know for a fact that it would have been "at least technically" possible, since I had exactly the same problem with the payout a week before: The payout was made to an alternative (mifinity) even though I had never made a deposit with it. As usual, all I had to do was upload the mifinity documents. It worked there too. And it was within the same group, just in a different casino.

Conclusion: What should the customer think? I'll refrain from making any comments on the subject here... ;-)