- Joined
- Jun 8, 2003
we are lucky to have a car to sell .............many never had a car nor money enough to buy one nor to even dream about one..........
These are,probably,Chrystmas time thoughts.
I feel like I've entered the Twilight Zone!
Oh my GOD! God d#mn cheaters!
- Thread starter steinhaug
- Start date
I feel like I've entered the Twilight Zone!
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Location
- Canada
kimss, I agree with what you are saying and have observed the same patterns from playing extensively at MG and other casinos last year.
For what it's worth, here is my own truth and what I live by on any software casino.
If you keep your bets constant at a given casino, and have a decent betsize/bankroll ratio (low risk of ruin) for any type of game, you should show normal results in the long run and have nice streaks/wins. You'll generally be exposed to the natural variance of the game you're playing.
It's simple, with many constant bets, the software will obey the payout percentage and give you a statistically normal game. There are enough hands/spins to create a decent sample.
When you increase your bet size, you are reducing your number of betting units and increasing your risk of ruin. Then, it's all too easy for the casino to deplete you and call it bad luck, there will not be a large enough sample to call it not normal. This is a recurring pattern everywhere. Remember, you are playing against a house and that ultimately wants your balance! The only recurring exceptions to this pattern I have found are where:
- You have good loyalty at the casino (regardless of if you're a lifetime winner or loser there). They can then give you a break because they know they will have another shot at your money another time anyway.
- You are a significant lifetime loser there. They can make you happy for a while, it's just cash-back on your losses.
- You just get lucky. You hit a rare set of numbers on the RNG to override the higher risk of ruin of having increased your bet size and and out of pure luck you make a nice score.
When I want to play blackjack I play at a live online casino or go to a real casino. Not because I think I'll have better odds, but because I know I won't be exposed to scenarios where the software determined it was time to stack me because I increased my bet size.
For what it's worth, here is my own truth and what I live by on any software casino.
If you keep your bets constant at a given casino, and have a decent betsize/bankroll ratio (low risk of ruin) for any type of game, you should show normal results in the long run and have nice streaks/wins. You'll generally be exposed to the natural variance of the game you're playing.
It's simple, with many constant bets, the software will obey the payout percentage and give you a statistically normal game. There are enough hands/spins to create a decent sample.
When you increase your bet size, you are reducing your number of betting units and increasing your risk of ruin. Then, it's all too easy for the casino to deplete you and call it bad luck, there will not be a large enough sample to call it not normal. This is a recurring pattern everywhere. Remember, you are playing against a house and that ultimately wants your balance! The only recurring exceptions to this pattern I have found are where:
- You have good loyalty at the casino (regardless of if you're a lifetime winner or loser there). They can then give you a break because they know they will have another shot at your money another time anyway.
- You are a significant lifetime loser there. They can make you happy for a while, it's just cash-back on your losses.
- You just get lucky. You hit a rare set of numbers on the RNG to override the higher risk of ruin of having increased your bet size and and out of pure luck you make a nice score.
When I want to play blackjack I play at a live online casino or go to a real casino. Not because I think I'll have better odds, but because I know I won't be exposed to scenarios where the software determined it was time to stack me because I increased my bet size.
Just curious before I make any other comments, HOW MANY?
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Location
- Canada
Plenty but not enough to conclude whether the game is fair or not if that's what you're getting to.
What I mean to say is that I have found that if you can flat bet the games with a low risk of ruin and put in alot of hands/spins the software seems more designed to give you more normal statistics. If you increase your bet size and reduce your number of betting units; this is where the software seems more eager to deplete you and call it "a bad run / you had a high risk of ruin".
What I mean to say is that I have found that if you can flat bet the games with a low risk of ruin and put in alot of hands/spins the software seems more designed to give you more normal statistics. If you increase your bet size and reduce your number of betting units; this is where the software seems more eager to deplete you and call it "a bad run / you had a high risk of ruin".
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2006
- Location
- Norway
This does seem to be the case, and it also seems to be the case that increasing your bet will not give you a great win unless you already filled the casino with the money.
My theory is that you will have 1 chance of getting out +100%, and thats in the beginning of your account. After this the system will balance you at 95%.
Take Dash as an example, I lost 10K there the last 4 weeks, however my payout for the casino was 95.78%... Support was a little scared to say this was good, so they said "this one is 95.78% which isnt to bad?", note the question mark. This is mostly high-rolling, which really kills me.
Low-rolling seems to be the way to go, I usually make money here aswell since you get the occational great win here. In high rolling what happends is you just loose, however - and it seems to work most of the time infact - after loosing some Ks fast, go for Pharao's and get the jackpot. You also for some reason get 2 great wins in a row, this happends all the time and is sure strange to me.
almost 100K in losses during mostly high-rolling should give me the right to an opinion based on some really strange behaviour. I can understand people in here think I am hallucinating and crying over this, but I didn't just loose like 5000 dollars, it's more like 100.000 dollars so I do have an opinion here!
Obviously this is not enough high rolling to get a "balanced" payout on higher stakes. The largest balance I had in my account was 8990 one time, and when you do all from $5 to $50 spins you would expect to have luck atleast _ONE_ frakin time! Nope, best single win was $9 spin in Spring Break for $4600. I've had feature in Thunderstruck atleast 5 times on $45, but it never gave over $1000 in payout, I know - I'm just unlucky... Again and again.
Well, now I am sounding like a cry baby, but something is seriously wrong here.
That I would like to know, but you will get the common answers. Chaos theory and law of big numbers. We are doomed in this argument it seems, and what if we did proove them wrong? Do we get out money back? Thats another question. I for once would love that,
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2006
- Location
- Norway
Another way to see this, is when incresing bet sizes and studying the payout you will most likely start with a very skewed payout in the casinos favour. Over time it will turn, but then again you're only getting back a piece of your own money. Occationally you get lucky, but that is mostly not the case.
That blackjack round I had is a typical example. It starts off with sucking in the money, the bad streak, then comes the great streak, which stops after I got back the money I wagered + 20% or so. Then a new suck comes, and you could calculate the house edge, and when the good streak comes it will not give you back that much. However you ended up with 95% which was what you should have, so you should really be happy.
Now why does it always start off with the bad streaks... Im talking about those obvious bad streaks. They always seem to start in the casinos favour. How convinient I say!
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Location
- Canada
That is true kimss. After a while you clearly get to see the patterns that repeat over and over again.
But wow, you are a high roller. If I was you I would pick 3-4 great casinos that offer good rewards and play only there. All Jackpots/All Slots have the best MG loyalty scheme AFAIK with cashback paid directly to the account when you want (and not as bonus). That would help you in the rough times!
But wow, you are a high roller. If I was you I would pick 3-4 great casinos that offer good rewards and play only there. All Jackpots/All Slots have the best MG loyalty scheme AFAIK with cashback paid directly to the account when you want (and not as bonus). That would help you in the rough times!
Happy HolidaysKIMSS, you misunderstood the intent of my question to I Love Microgaming which was based on the quoted comments he made in the quote pursuant to number hands played and how it relates to expected payouts but I will drop that subject for now.Unless you can discover/prove malfeasance then this is not an issue at least for me and never was a motive for any of my actions in retaining a professional for an audit. I knew I was in all probability throwing good money away but once and for all I thought a scientific audit rather than all the rhetoric thrown back and forth on this forum should be attempted. For whatever reason, the paradoxical rhetoric of the never ending revisions of audit findings confused the issue even more or did it??.....No offense Kimss but your posts would be more credible if your inabilty to deal with your personal losses was not included in every other sentence. Try keeping your eye on the ball as your losses have absolutely nothing to do with determining whether there might be malfeasance in most of the BJ software platforms. Just my opinion!Do we get out money back? Thats another question. I for once would love that,
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2006
- Location
- Norway
Well, I didn't make myself all clear here, and there are to many thoughts going through my head when writing here sometimes so I'm kinda mixing a few issues into a big soup, I'm sorry for that.
The reason why mentioning my losses, is more to confirm I do infact have the a reasonable gameplay to base my views on. It was not a few spins.
Also, I'm mostly into slots, I do not play blackjack online that much anymore. I would say my gameplay is 95% slots, and the rest for the other tablegames.
Happy hollydays!
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2006
- Location
- Norway
I just want to do a followup on the 3Dice Blackjack, after spening quite some hands today. It's obvious that the the system predetermines if you are going to win or not, since when you are on a roll you may pick that extra card and get your 21. Trust me, I've tried. On the other hand, it's visa versa when the system is in favour.
The thing I do want to clarify however, is that - first time for me that is - possible to accually win on the blackjack. The system however is very streaky, indeed, but you might just get that streak in your favour.
It's online, but from all the other casinoes I've played at this has to be the blackjack I like the most. (surely since I accually managed to win in the blackjack in places I was sure the dealer would throw a 21, like other certain casinoes).
So, a sort of clarification there - I still have my opinions, however online we don't have much to choose from. We have MG, RTG and a few others. 3Dice has to be the fairest I would say atleast.
Bottom line, for the first time online I accually managed to win in blackjack. And that was in the 3Dice software, streaky though.
Edit:
I've restarted the casino several times now, also quit and restarted the blackjack. I must admit it's kinda impossible at the moment, LOL. So I'm infact back to where I started... Proobably the dice fell in my favour for winning tonight.
Anyways i'm happy, since I won! What a great Christmas gift!
The thing I do want to clarify however, is that - first time for me that is - possible to accually win on the blackjack. The system however is very streaky, indeed, but you might just get that streak in your favour.
It's online, but from all the other casinoes I've played at this has to be the blackjack I like the most. (surely since I accually managed to win in the blackjack in places I was sure the dealer would throw a 21, like other certain casinoes).
So, a sort of clarification there - I still have my opinions, however online we don't have much to choose from. We have MG, RTG and a few others. 3Dice has to be the fairest I would say atleast.
Bottom line, for the first time online I accually managed to win in blackjack. And that was in the 3Dice software, streaky though.
Edit:
I've restarted the casino several times now, also quit and restarted the blackjack. I must admit it's kinda impossible at the moment, LOL. So I'm infact back to where I started... Proobably the dice fell in my favour for winning tonight.
Anyways i'm happy, since I won! What a great Christmas gift!
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2007
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio USA
Well I'm pretty sure that I have all of the proof that I need. I started the following session with $1000 US and ended with $0. I played 500 hands of Atlantic City Blackjack on Villentos website. They use MG.
I recorded all of the hands and here are the won/lost results in groups of 50. Follow along closely and I think my point will be made.
D - Dealer M - Me P - Push S - Surrender
1st 50 D-25, M-19, P-4, S-2
2nd 50 D-18, M-18, P-7, S-7
3rd 50 D-18, M-23, P-5, S-4
4th 50 D-21, M-24, P-3, S-2
5th 50 D-22, M-21, P-2, S-4
6th 50 D-23, M-17, P-3, S-7
7th 50 D-24, M-17, P-5, S-4
8th 50 D-18, M-23, P-5, S-4
9th 50 D-19, M-25, P-5, S-1
10th50 D-29, M-10, P-4, S-7
Notice how the 10th group of hands seems to stand out from the rest. That's because halfway through that group of 50 hands I committed the ultimate sin, that always has the same results. Can anyone guess my sin? You got it! I increased my bet amount and stayed aggressive. Check this run out!
Dealer/Me
#40255 - $25 - D 19/11 I doubled on 9 and got 11
#40256 - $25 - P 20/20
#40257 - $25 - D 8/22 I hit 12 got 22
#40258 - $25 - M 25/17
#40259 - $25 - D 19/22
#40260 - $50 - D 20/14
#40261 - $50 - M 25/19
#40262 - $25 - S Dumped 15 looking at 10
#40263 - $25 - D 10/23 I hit 13 and busted
#40264 - $25 - D 14/23 I hit 13 looking at 10 busted
#40265 - $200 - D 21/14 I bet $100 dbld. on 10 looking at 2
#40266 - $100 - D BJ/10
#40267 - $100 - S Dumped 16 looking at 9
#40268 - $100 - D 12/22 I hit 12 and busted
#40269 - $100 - P 17/17
#40270 - $100 - D 19/17
#40271 - $50 - D 18/23 I hit 14 looking at 8.
I won 2 of the last 17 hands, and they were $25 and $50. I won no hands for $50 +.
At this point I'm effectively wiped out. Now the point is that at no time during the course of this 500 hands did any such run take place. Prior to this, I played very conservatively, betting $1 per hand, and mixing in the occasional $20, $25, maybe $50. But when I increased the wager and kept it increased, then just look at the won/loss stats from the 10th group of 50 hands.
The sad thing is that this happens all of the time, it's so obvious what's going on, and yet they still get away with it. These criminals are cheating us out of our money and they need to pay!
I feel like such a sucker for letting them take so much from me.
gobucs
I recorded all of the hands and here are the won/lost results in groups of 50. Follow along closely and I think my point will be made.
D - Dealer M - Me P - Push S - Surrender
1st 50 D-25, M-19, P-4, S-2
2nd 50 D-18, M-18, P-7, S-7
3rd 50 D-18, M-23, P-5, S-4
4th 50 D-21, M-24, P-3, S-2
5th 50 D-22, M-21, P-2, S-4
6th 50 D-23, M-17, P-3, S-7
7th 50 D-24, M-17, P-5, S-4
8th 50 D-18, M-23, P-5, S-4
9th 50 D-19, M-25, P-5, S-1
10th50 D-29, M-10, P-4, S-7
Notice how the 10th group of hands seems to stand out from the rest. That's because halfway through that group of 50 hands I committed the ultimate sin, that always has the same results. Can anyone guess my sin? You got it! I increased my bet amount and stayed aggressive. Check this run out!
Dealer/Me
#40255 - $25 - D 19/11 I doubled on 9 and got 11
#40256 - $25 - P 20/20
#40257 - $25 - D 8/22 I hit 12 got 22
#40258 - $25 - M 25/17
#40259 - $25 - D 19/22
#40260 - $50 - D 20/14
#40261 - $50 - M 25/19
#40262 - $25 - S Dumped 15 looking at 10
#40263 - $25 - D 10/23 I hit 13 and busted
#40264 - $25 - D 14/23 I hit 13 looking at 10 busted
#40265 - $200 - D 21/14 I bet $100 dbld. on 10 looking at 2
#40266 - $100 - D BJ/10
#40267 - $100 - S Dumped 16 looking at 9
#40268 - $100 - D 12/22 I hit 12 and busted
#40269 - $100 - P 17/17
#40270 - $100 - D 19/17
#40271 - $50 - D 18/23 I hit 14 looking at 8.
I won 2 of the last 17 hands, and they were $25 and $50. I won no hands for $50 +.
At this point I'm effectively wiped out. Now the point is that at no time during the course of this 500 hands did any such run take place. Prior to this, I played very conservatively, betting $1 per hand, and mixing in the occasional $20, $25, maybe $50. But when I increased the wager and kept it increased, then just look at the won/loss stats from the 10th group of 50 hands.
The sad thing is that this happens all of the time, it's so obvious what's going on, and yet they still get away with it. These criminals are cheating us out of our money and they need to pay!
I feel like such a sucker for letting them take so much from me.
gobucs
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Location
- Canada
Unfortunate you had to commit "the ultimate sin".
I'll say it again, if you want to play blackjack at home, play at a live casino. With software blackjack, when it decides you're going to lose, there's no helping it.
And this isn't just at MG or anything, I will never forget when I deposited $2000 at an RTG, played $20 hands, ran it up to $6000 flatbetting, went to bed, repeated the next day and lost it all in about 1200 hands, still flatbetting $20!
I can't wait until Microgaming unveils its live dealer blackjack, Microgaming service and reliability without the software constraint! I will only play online blackjack there
I'll say it again, if you want to play blackjack at home, play at a live casino. With software blackjack, when it decides you're going to lose, there's no helping it.
And this isn't just at MG or anything, I will never forget when I deposited $2000 at an RTG, played $20 hands, ran it up to $6000 flatbetting, went to bed, repeated the next day and lost it all in about 1200 hands, still flatbetting $20!
I can't wait until Microgaming unveils its live dealer blackjack, Microgaming service and reliability without the software constraint! I will only play online blackjack there
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2007
- Location
- Athens, Greece
There is a way to make them pay. If you keep cursing them constantly for 2 weeks they will all die immediatelly. Killing someone is not definitelly wrong. It might be of a great spiritual merit. If we hadnt killed Hitler he would had killed more people.
Merry Christmas, have some more eggnog............you kept derailing the Absolute thread and now are you suggesting murder????
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2007
- Location
- Athens, Greece
It was definatelly right to kill as many as needed german soldiers in the Wolrd War II so that Germany was defeated, and it would had been definatelly wrong not to kill them in the name of non-murder. Jesus is not against murder, because how would God judge the killings so that Germany was defeated? What if a mad man rushes into a school and kills every kid he sees? Is it not right for the police to kill him? What is the opinion of God on this? Therefore, it is definatelly right that some (not all of course) of these people should be murdered, and cursing is a legal and safe way to do it. Many people committed suicide because of them and they impose unimaginable suffering and oppression on others in many ways. Therefore, yes, I suggest that it is right that one curses: "The cheaters WHO it is right to die, let it be that they die". One could also pray that they repend, and this might be even more right pray that cursing. But cursing is also right, as long as the motive is not mainly malice, but saving others from suffering and spiritual downfall. For example, suicide is a great spiritual downfall. If I explain more, I will have to write a book in here, so enough.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2007
- Location
- So Cal...Antelope Valley
uuuhhhh, YIKES exit stage left.........
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2004
- Location
- No more Heroes
Hey...Santa must have missed his chimney, but I'll tell you what Thodorisk wants, what he really really wants.....that CasinoMeister award is almost in his grasp, and this should 'grinch' it....
Rusty
Banned User - repetitive flaming
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2006
- Location
- Manchester UK
Doh!
I am always amazed at how upset some people get when another member accuses a Casino of cheating.
That smacks of insecurity, sorry.
If you do not think Casinos cheat then fine, advance that argument by providing evidence the games are fair and completely random
IMHO I thought it was well established fact that online slots are not true random
The evidence for this is overwhelming and you would have to be seriously deluded not to see that the reels are dynamically weighted.
This does not mean they are rigged in the sense that there is no random element and results are preset it just means that after a nice big win or winning streak some results become so unlikely as to be nearly impossible.
Perhaps slots wizzard can inform me of the true odds of a pyramid (Cleopatras Gold) not appearing anywhere in the window for over 80 spins. It is just one small example of the symbols being dynamically weighted.
If you are still not convinced then play Ronin until you hit that nice streak, you know the one where the feature can't miss and you hit the 25 freespins with 3 or 4 retriggers.
Done that?
Good, now grow a beard while you wait to see Ronin appear on the first reel
There are loads of such examples RTG or MG or others.
Now the thing is if the slots are not truely random and what they are made out to be why would you believe that any of the other games are any different?
Case closed.
Play online for entertainment only, please.
Have a very merry Christmas one and all
I am always amazed at how upset some people get when another member accuses a Casino of cheating.
That smacks of insecurity, sorry.
If you do not think Casinos cheat then fine, advance that argument by providing evidence the games are fair and completely random
IMHO I thought it was well established fact that online slots are not true random
The evidence for this is overwhelming and you would have to be seriously deluded not to see that the reels are dynamically weighted.
This does not mean they are rigged in the sense that there is no random element and results are preset it just means that after a nice big win or winning streak some results become so unlikely as to be nearly impossible.
Perhaps slots wizzard can inform me of the true odds of a pyramid (Cleopatras Gold) not appearing anywhere in the window for over 80 spins. It is just one small example of the symbols being dynamically weighted.
If you are still not convinced then play Ronin until you hit that nice streak, you know the one where the feature can't miss and you hit the 25 freespins with 3 or 4 retriggers.
Done that?
Good, now grow a beard while you wait to see Ronin appear on the first reel
There are loads of such examples RTG or MG or others.
Now the thing is if the slots are not truely random and what they are made out to be why would you believe that any of the other games are any different?
Case closed.
Play online for entertainment only, please.
Have a very merry Christmas one and all
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2007
- Location
- somewhere... over the rainbow!
Hey...Santa must have missed his chimney, but I'll tell you what Thodorisk wants, what he really really wants.....that CasinoMeister award is almost in his grasp, and this should 'grinch' it....
I second that motion!!
Rusty
Banned User - repetitive flaming
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2006
- Location
- Manchester UK
Unfortunate you had to commit "the ultimate sin".
I'll say it again, if you want to play blackjack at home, play at a live casino. With software blackjack, when it decides you're going to lose, there's no helping it.
And this isn't just at MG or anything, I will never forget when I deposited $2000 at an RTG, played $20 hands, ran it up to $6000 flatbetting, went to bed, repeated the next day and lost it all in about 1200 hands, still flatbetting $20!
I can't wait until Microgaming unveils its live dealer blackjack, Microgaming service and reliability without the software constraint! I will only play online blackjack there
Ahh yes but how will you know it is really live?
Delayed feed anyone, muhahahhahahahahahahahahahahhaha.
ps
I thought suicide was painless if you try?
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Location
- Canada
Have you seen MG's live dealer? It's impeccable like PlayTech's, it never stutters and you can see every hand flowing into the next. Also all players across the networks play the same deal at any given time. They couldn't rig it for high rollers and such.
Why do you think the max bet is much lower on MG and PlayTech's live dealer games than their pure software equivalents? There lies the answer
Why do you think the max bet is much lower on MG and PlayTech's live dealer games than their pure software equivalents? There lies the answer
Rusty
Banned User - repetitive flaming
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2006
- Location
- Manchester UK
It was tongue in cheek hence the smiley
I wish they would do the same thing for poker but that would be quite an expensive set up and open to cheating I guess.
I wish they would do the same thing for poker but that would be quite an expensive set up and open to cheating I guess.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2007
- Location
- Athens, Greece
What's this guy saying? That it is impossible to cheat us at the live dealer? Hey, dude, how stupid do you think we are?
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2005
- Location
- Pennsylvania
I would have thought you gave up online gambling already. Seeing as how you think all games are rigged...
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2007
- Location
- Europe
Th, Ill get you up to a green bar eventually.
I've played a lot of BJ at the casinos. I have seen ridiculous streaks both ways. The best strategy is not to bust a hand. I take advantage of all the splits & double downs. I dont fluctuate my betting much. Its rare I go busto in a night, using, say a x50.
I am happy to take flip of the coin odds in a casino but dont fancy it online. My reason? Too easy too throw in crazy bets & think nothing of it till im broke. Automatic shuffling takes away my slight edge.
Maybe its rigged, but I have the reasons above from preventing me playing online. I still play the occassional hand online but dont really give it much thought. I am not a bonus whore so I have never really looked at blackjack as a way to clear a bonus and claim a few $$$
Sites dont need to rig a game. The money will come to them. Those who do rig games should be condemned in hell. Thats just grimey.
Personally I dont trust house games online. I play sometimes for fun but expect the house to win. If I win, its a bonus.
Fruit machines in the pubs are all rigged. everyone knows it, the odds are printed on the machine, ie 82%. I know for a fact, the best way to play them is just to gamble untill you hit the jackpot, no collects, no holds. Once you win, give it another 20% incase the jackpots lands again. The odds are still stacked, thats why im not rich off fruit machines.
To get a true evaluation of blackjack, you need to have someone who knows how to play it with precision. I hear of people splitting 10's then moaning when they land 3 & 4. Some split without taking into consideration the dealers card. It's all reducing your odds.
I have over 16 years experience playing live but only a couple of hours online.
The moral of the story is that people should look at their play before considering the rigged issue.
I've played a lot of BJ at the casinos. I have seen ridiculous streaks both ways. The best strategy is not to bust a hand. I take advantage of all the splits & double downs. I dont fluctuate my betting much. Its rare I go busto in a night, using, say a x50.
I am happy to take flip of the coin odds in a casino but dont fancy it online. My reason? Too easy too throw in crazy bets & think nothing of it till im broke. Automatic shuffling takes away my slight edge.
Maybe its rigged, but I have the reasons above from preventing me playing online. I still play the occassional hand online but dont really give it much thought. I am not a bonus whore so I have never really looked at blackjack as a way to clear a bonus and claim a few $$$
Sites dont need to rig a game. The money will come to them. Those who do rig games should be condemned in hell. Thats just grimey.
Personally I dont trust house games online. I play sometimes for fun but expect the house to win. If I win, its a bonus.
Fruit machines in the pubs are all rigged. everyone knows it, the odds are printed on the machine, ie 82%. I know for a fact, the best way to play them is just to gamble untill you hit the jackpot, no collects, no holds. Once you win, give it another 20% incase the jackpots lands again. The odds are still stacked, thats why im not rich off fruit machines.
To get a true evaluation of blackjack, you need to have someone who knows how to play it with precision. I hear of people splitting 10's then moaning when they land 3 & 4. Some split without taking into consideration the dealers card. It's all reducing your odds.
I have over 16 years experience playing live but only a couple of hours online.
The moral of the story is that people should look at their play before considering the rigged issue.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2007
- Location
- Athens, Greece
I never gamble i.e. when there is an edge against me. And since the online casinos cheat, I gave up poker about a year ago. It was poker where I lost. I only play cashable bonuses, where even if cheated, I will not lose, because most casinos do not cheat more than 2% of the hands when you bet 1-2$, as this way the cheating will be easily exposed. Fortunatelly, I made a profit from these. But I finished them all except some casinos that there is a danger that they cheat more than 2% or that they dont pay. As for online live dealer, I tried betinternet where there was a bonus. More than this, I could card-cound at blackjack and make huge profits! But ... I suspected cheating (by montage etc). But I got inspiration! I thought that since they cheat, if I play baccarat on the opposite bet of that which a very large bet was staked, then I should have an edge over the house, since they will cheat the players with the huge bets. So I kept betting the minimoum of 5$ this way (e.g. when a player was betting 200-500$ on the banker, I was betting 5$ on the player) and guess what! I won about 400$ within a small number of bets. I stopped because I couldnt find a player with huge bets any more, and soon they would introduce fake players if they found out what I found (and probably others have found as well before me). There was another solution, that I should bet on the opposite bet of that where the more money was staked. But I could not verify this, as the same dealer was dealing many different tables. Anyway, it was fun as I made money exactly because they cheat!
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- Jul 26, 2007
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- Athens, Greece
I never "gamble" i.e. bet when there is an edge against me. And since the online casinos cheat, I gave up poker about a year ago. It was poker where I lost. I only play cashable bonuses, where even when cheated, I will not lose, because most casinos do not cheat more than 2% of the hands when you bet 1-2$, as this way the cheating will be easily exposed, and because 2% is enough to wipe out the bonus. Fortunatelly, I made a profit from these. But I finished them all except some casinos that there is a danger that they cheat more than 2% or that they dont pay. As for online live dealer, I tried betinternet where there was a bonus. More than this, I could card-cound at blackjack and make huge profits!? No ... I soon suspected cheating (by montage etc). But I got inspiration! I thought that since they cheat, if I play baccarat on the opposite bet of that which a very large bet was staked, then I should have an edge over the house, since they will cheat the players with the huge bets. So I kept betting the minimoum of 5$ this way (e.g. when a player was betting 200-500$ on the banker, I was betting 5$ on the player) and guess what! I won about 400$ within a small number of bets. I stopped because I couldnt find a player with huge bets any more, and soon they would introduce fake players if they found out what I found (and probably others had found as well before me). There was another solution, that I should bet on the opposite bet of that where the more money was staked. But I could not verify this, as the same dealer was dealing many different rooms (actually, I think the same dealer is dealing for rooms of both betinternet and Ladbrokes!) Anyway, it was fun as I made money exactly because they cheat!
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Sorry about the double posting, I logged in and thought the first one was not posted. Anyway the second one is different.
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Poker has ridiculous luck but I would say its probably your safest option. If you cant beat a standard bot, you shouldnt expect to win. An observant player can spot players teaming up on you......thats just a run away case.
Card counting is obsolete online for blackjack, but live I generally raise my bets when low cards are out and drop it when high cards are out early. Its all about bust situations
Card counting is obsolete online for blackjack, but live I generally raise my bets when low cards are out and drop it when high cards are out early. Its all about bust situations
Assuming (I said assuming) the software is correlated (and a certified fair gaming auditor could not convince me despite my request that this be part of the audit I tried to pay for that BJ software may not be correlated.... By no means I am saying winning is not possible online even if correlated BJ software is assumed but that is another subject), playing perfect basic strategy will ultimately be meaningless in the event the software is correlated other than not playing perfect BS gives the fairness preachers another excuse to divert the proof issue of fair software. I do not think one will ever know the truth pursuant to online BJ fairness as there is too much wiggle room for the so called fair gaming auditors and all the others in bed together which is almost cult like. As the Bible says "the love of money is the root of all evil" (not money is the root but the love of).
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I wont disagree with you. The proof aspect is difficult - see the 4million AP threads - bedding together? You have 4million posts to sift through that backs your theory. Im comfortable playing live blackjack only
meaningless? yes I have played basic strategy & it cant beat the random shuffle, if that is what you mean? That was tested over 2million hands
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- Oct 16, 2006
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- Canada
I never "gamble" i.e. bet when there is an edge against me. And since the online casinos cheat, I gave up poker about a year ago. It was poker where I lost. I only play cashable bonuses, where even when cheated, I will not lose, because most casinos do not cheat more than 2% of the hands when you bet 1-2$, as this way the cheating will be easily exposed, and because 2% is enough to wipe out the bonus. Fortunatelly, I made a profit from these. But I finished them all except some casinos that there is a danger that they cheat more than 2% or that they dont pay. As for online live dealer, I tried betinternet where there was a bonus. More than this, I could card-cound at blackjack and make huge profits!? No ... I soon suspected cheating (by montage etc). But I got inspiration! I thought that since they cheat, if I play baccarat on the opposite bet of that which a very large bet was staked, then I should have an edge over the house, since they will cheat the players with the huge bets. So I kept betting the minimoum of 5$ this way (e.g. when a player was betting 200-500$ on the banker, I was betting 5$ on the player) and guess what! I won about 400$ within a small number of bets. I stopped because I couldnt find a player with huge bets any more, and soon they would introduce fake players if they found out what I found (and probably others had found as well before me). There was another solution, that I should bet on the opposite bet of that where the more money was staked. But I could not verify this, as the same dealer was dealing many different rooms (actually, I think the same dealer is dealing for rooms of both betinternet and Ladbrokes!) Anyway, it was fun as I made money exactly because they cheat!
I agree with you that you are not always getting a perfectly fair game at software casinos and online poker rooms.
For live dealer you seem to be convinced that they cheat, and that's fine, but all the reasons you mention to try to explain how they "cheat" are ridiculous.
At BetInternet (CasinoWebcam, Ladbrokes) first of all the blackjack rules are so bad and the game is so slow that the game is not profitable when counting, even if you "wonged" (watched multiple tables at once and chose when to place your bets when the true count was above 1). I know I have ran a simulation on it using this software:
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That's nothing new anyway, why would they want to offer a game that people can count in the comfort of their own homes and make thousands. Your experiment of "counting" was so short run that anything could have happened, you could have won big or lost big (but you lost).
As for baccarat, well you said it yourself, the dealer is dealing for many different tables in many different sites, so the fact that you or won in a small number of betting the opposite of one large bet on your table proves absolutely nothing.
ThodorisK said:
Not at all. But for blackjack, for example, I think that most who have substantially played software and live dealer versions would agree on this:
(probability that software blackjack is rigged + house edge at software blackjack) > (probability that live dealer blackjack is rigged + house edge at live dealer blackjack)
And this is why I would choose MG/PlayTech/CasinoWebcam's live dealer BJ anytime over Boss Media's Single Deck BJ with "up to a 0.11% player edge", for example.
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I had a simulator back in the early 90's. it's nothing new. if a casino had a single deck, I would destroy it, guaranteed. If an online casino has a single deck with an automatic reshuffle, it would defeat the purpose. 0.11%? It sounds good pumping out the facts, but it is a false statement. Explain it in more detail
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Not false sir.
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(see Single Deck Blackjack)(It's actually up to 0.15% by the way, not 0.11%.)
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OK, I disagree. Fair enough, its from a reputable source, but a single deck scenario cannot be legitimate. it goes against all laws of gambling, ie house edge. its a myth. As a poker player, you will understand how 5stud becomes difficult
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I know, that is exactly what I am saying. I think "too good to be true" applies here!
Even a casino exec. admited to me (I think) therein lies the problem whether only a problem of perception or a problem of actuality. That leaves the issue how does the online industry address this root (npi) of the problem so the player is assured fairness online in BJ. Are there ways we can sit at home with our minds,computers et al and not have an unfair advantage over the casino if the onlines can rid the reshuffle? Hopefully, the real wizs are at work but like you my play will be very limited online as in the past unless an adequate solution becomes available. (Maybe onlines do not want knowledgable BJ players as they have to know their achilles heel eventhough they et al try to convince us otherwise). Regardless of whether live may be a fair solution or not to the player, the game is slower than a turtle so eff that solution for now.
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I got it. Its nothing more than a sales pitch. Misleading to say the least. One hand, new shuffle, offers no advantage. 5 handed with 6 packs would offer similar, but use 5 packs for simplicity. Now I would say the player edge is totally false & the stats are not remotely accurate. It all goes back to the reshuffling after ever hand. They need to rewrite or omit
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playing live I am usually playing against six packs. Ive seen dealers tucking in the plastic devil 2/3rd but if he just cuts a pack off, my odds are better. There is no online advantage, and the 0.15% stats is created, it has no substance "RANDOM SHUFFLE"
Shackleford as I have posted in the past lost credibility with me when he chose to endorse one online casino (enuff said there) which I see as a conflict of interest for the love of money,,,,,,Otherwise, I have no issues with this most trusted resource and individual.
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- Oct 16, 2006
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GaryWatson, can you explain your reasoning?
The Wizard established a chart based on "total dependent basic strategy" which includes anomalies like standing on 7,7 vs. 10. I don't get how he gets the player advantage either.
The Wizard established a chart based on "total dependent basic strategy" which includes anomalies like standing on 7,7 vs. 10. I don't get how he gets the player advantage either.
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Agreed, that move was surprising, yet as long as there is no bias in his analysis' it's fine with me (the man get I don't know how many hits a day from gamblers worldwide...)
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All I can say is random shuffling takes away any player advantage. Playing one hand is practically negligable.
basic strategy only works when you take into account cards previous. Infact, im not sure what basic strategy is but if its going with the table, ill guess at a 98.5% payout. So it is a losing strategy on the one deck stated. The advantage comes when you take into account previous cards. On top of that you need to maximise your splits and double downs
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Well, this also seems to apply to Baccarat at MGs. When playing hands at $10 or $20 the results were quite even, winning some and losing some. Okay, I tried 6 hands at $50 and lost $300 just like that. What the heck. In the final hand I bet on the banker got 7 against the player's 4 and out came another 4. So that was how I lost 6 in a row.
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- Jun 11, 2006
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The single deck BJ numbers are legitimate. A player edge of 0.11% assumes shuffle after each hand and basic strategy. A player edge of 0.15% assumes composition dependent exceptions to basic strategy. Unfortunately almost all Boss Media casinos that have offered single deck BJ with an expected player edge have either dropped the game or closed. I believe that the only one left is Casino Club.
VueTec BJ also has an expected player edge of ~0.07% (the computerized games, not the live ones), but you need to use a unique early surrender strategy to achieve this player edge. I suspect hardly anyone uses optimal strategy on this game.
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It depends on what you are trying to show and how far results are from normal. It could be less than a hundred hands or it could be millions. For example, in the casino bar experiment described at
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, a few hundred hands was enough to show odds of well under 1 in 100 billion. But when I run a sim to measure the house edge of a blackjack game to the hundreds place, I usually need to play millions of hands before getting a stable result. Winning only 2 out of 17 hands as mentioned a few pages back is definitely not enough data to show unfair results.Very aware of that, I wanted the poster's answer before I proceeded with some of the info. your post contains.
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I know insurance on Aces is a wasted bet.
Surrender? Im not sure about that. It's never been part of the rules where I play but assuming you are losing 50% of an undetermined bet, it looks a bad option.
You are taking a 50% loss which seems a big swing to save 1/2 a bet.
The dealer is sitting on 10 & you are on 5. Should you surrender? I would say no. I would say the best option is to play & avoid busting out. Allow the dealer the option of busting.
Taking the surrender, you are losing every hand, eliminating the dealers option to bust.
By not taking the surrender option, you have the opportunity to improve your chances on the next card without busting. Fail to hit and let the dealer take his chances. Anything fro 2-6 would be good for the player but bad for the dealer.
By using the surrender option, you are taking the biggest player advantage away & that is for the dealer to bust his hand. And for what? 50% automatic loss?
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