North Korea and US politics

[ladyhawke]

The h1n1 killed around 13,000 here. Took 6 months before they declared it a national emergency.

The media was sane back then.

I don't think they've given a prediction this time, probably as a result of getting it so wrong with swine flu.

No, I can't recall them cancelling events for swine flu, certainly not the football.

I don't remember the mexican flu, must've passed me by

It passed you by because less media hype and little or no social media.

I completely agree that this time around, Social Media and the MSM should accept most of the responsibility for the current widespread panic/hysteria, due almost entirely to the way they are reporting this crisis.

But....back in 2009 when Swine Flu hit, it is possible that governments simply were not aware of how serious it would prove to be, and therefore did not initially feel the necessity to share a lot of information to the media, which is why it never became a circus. And of course, social media in all forms was still in its infancy.

This time around, there was no hiding what was happening in Wuhan, and the media was involved virtually from first light. By the time Governments recognised the potential impact of the impending pandemic, the media were already way ahead of the curve, so to speak.

And once the tiger is out of its cage, it is impossible to put it back in.

I do wonder what the world would be like today regarding COVID-19, if the reporting had been more responsible? AND if the governments had been more responsible as well.

AS for cancellation of events, self-isolation etc - this did not happen back in 2009. People just went on with their lives without this mass panic.

 

[sufferinsilence]

After I asked the question last night I ventured onto the big bad Wikipedia just now to read abit about the Mexican Flu and from what I gathered only in Mexico they cancelled events, closed schools etc. but not even for that long: April 24th until May 5th 2009.

The biggest difference, except for the predicted mortality rate which which will be between the outliers of 0.5 and 2% according to some oped's I read, is that the contagious period was only 5 to 7 days and not present when there were no symptoms.

I'm trying to keep my corona-virus-news-and-other-nonsense-reports-intake much lower right now. My anxiety has been through the roof.

 

[Steviedoo]

its all in how the MSM presents things now.

This was Nov 12, 2009. I don't know the final numbers.


[/QUOTE
.

The media is a circus. We get that.

Does he have to lie about a website and mislead people?

The answer is still no.

No matter how the media presents the info.

Not ok.

 

[Steviedoo]

Just go look at the videos, even the one I posted.

What does it say in the beginning? "Today's numbers are 4 times higher than the CDC first reported just 6 days ago." Then look at 44 seconds in. What do they say, cases missed.

Here I will repeat the question.

Was it ok for trump to have lied so many times in what he was doing in response to the coronavirus?

And lied he did. It’s not fake news. There is video.

 

[slotplayer]

The media is a circus. We get that.

Does he have to lie about a website and mislead people?

The answer is still no.

No matter how the media presents the info.

Not ok.

I don't know if he's lying or just lost at times but he's not 43 he's 73.

 

[Steviedoo]

I don't know if he's lying or just lost at times but he's not 43 he's 73.

Still an excuse.

Dems have choice between a 77 and 78 year old.

Good times ahead like you said.

 

[Steviedoo]

@slotplayer

It’s not just the media hype. It’s the death rate. This is what’s worrisome.

Mortality rates

Seasonal flu: 0.1%
H1N1: 0.02%
Coronavirus: 3.4%

 

[sufferinsilence]

@slotplayer

It’s not just the media hype. It’s the death rate. This is what’s worrisome.

Mortality rates

Seasonal flu: 0.1%
H1N1: 0.02%
Coronavirus: 3.4%

The mortality rate is inflated tho. No country is checking everyone who has symptoms anymore so there are many flying under the radar. Only South Korea is doing as many tests as possible but other countries don't have the resources to. The current 3.8% case fatality rate is from the known cases which were all severe enough to be tested.

We'll only know an estimation of the real rate when all's said and done, like I posted in my previous post some experts are saying it'll be between 0.5 and 2% which is still very high!

 

[slotplayer]

@slotplayer

It’s not just the media hype. It’s the death rate. This is what’s worrisome.

Mortality rates

Seasonal flu: 0.1%
H1N1: 0.02%
Coronavirus: 3.4%

yes, I heard the numbers. I also hear the death rate is high because the number of people that have been tested are low so far.

Also the flu and H1N1 have vaccinations.

 

[Harry_BKK]

The h1n1 killed around 13,000 here. Took 6 months before they declared it a national emergency.

The media was sane back then.

When will you learn to post the entire truth?

The main reason why they didn't go for the full national emergency was because it was basically the flu, and not a viral infection as the coronavirus causes.

 

[Harry_BKK]

The h1n1 killed around 13,000 here. Took 6 months before they declared it a national emergency.

The media was sane back then.

The media sane????

Surely not those on the right! You might want to read up the nonsense your friends at Faux, Breitbart et al were talking at the time.

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You can have dozens more links if needed.

 

[slotplayer]

I think in April the congress freed up 1.5b in emergency funding.

A public health emergency is a lesser event than a national emergency, which triggers a rapid outlay of federal money to address the emergency. National emergencies also give great power to the president, allowing the president to do things such as activate the National Guard.

Not what I see. its block so you have to click thru to You Tube.

ABC NEWS Oct 26, 2009

 

[ladyhawke]

ABC NEWS Oct 26, 2009

A very interesting video from the ABC, which is a respected News outlet.

Summary of H1N1 impact on USA:
1: H1N1 was identified at the end of April.
2: Obama declared the epidemic a National Emergency at the end of October.
3: A vaccine that worked was available at the end of October.
4: Four of the 5 manufacturers of the vaccine were overseas.
5: "Vaccine Panic" ensued as there was not enough to go around.

H1N1 vs COVID-19:
1: Obama administration declared H1N1 a "public health emergency" in April 2009.
2: Obama administration declared H1N1 a 'National emergency" in October 2009.
3: Initially, Trump declared COVID-19 a "hoax" perpetrated by the Democrats and MSM.
4: Trump

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the coronavirus a "public health emergency" on Jan. 31, 2020.
5: Trump declared COVID-19 a "National emergency" on March 14th.
6: No vaccine currently available. Estimates by the CDC is that a vaccine won't be available for 12-18 months.
Note: Information regarding the development of a vaccine now indicates an earlier release may be possible.
7: Limited testing kits available.
8: No panic buying of food staples/toilet roll with H1N1. The only panic appears to have been over the shortfall of available vaccines.


And if you want to know anything about how to create a vaccine, and why existing vaccines won't work against COVID-19, the following article is very useful.

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[slotplayer]

3: Initially, Trump declared COVID-19 a "hoax" perpetrated by the Democrats and MSM.

He didn't declare the COVID19 a Hoax, he declared their politicization of it a hoax. The media spun it.

Right at 1:02 with Bloomberg

 

[mack341]

3: Initially, Trump declared COVID-19 a "hoax" perpetrated by the Democrats and MSM.

Steviedoo has mentioned this too, I thought he said the democrat and media attacks on his handling of the virus outbreak were the new hoax, not the actual virus ?

Edit: I'm too late again Slotplayer has covered this above

 

[Harry_BKK]

3: Initially, Trump declared COVID-19 a "hoax" perpetrated by the Democrats and MSM.

He didn't declare the COVID19 a Hoax, he declared their politicization of it a hoax. The media spun it.

Right at 1:02 with Bloomberg

Funny how you cheerleaders rally every time to find an explanation for his nonsense ...... e.g. fine people on both sides, he was only joking etc.

This is a transcript of what he said exactly. Most sites state that it can be understood both ways because after the sentence with "hoax" he does not say anything on how the Democrats spin it or politicize it. Instead, he describes the current status of the Coronavirus situation and what brags about what he did.

 

[mack341]

On the one hand Trump put in place flight restrictions with china [possibly elsewhere too] quite early, but on the other hand he tried to downplay the seriousness of the virus, probably in a vain attempt to keep the stock market (bubble) prices intact.

I do not believe he is micro managing the CDC strategy, he doesn't do detail, is not a scientist or medically qualified in anyway.

These are the current figures from the CDC

• Total cases: 1,629
• Total deaths: 41

compared to the uk with about 1/5 of the population of the US, 1,372 confirmed cases and 35 deaths. So on that basis the US is not faring too bad overall.

The more Trump is criticised the more he will do to prioritise it and improve the response, more resources etc...as he wants to be popular.

 

[mack341]

Funny how you cheerleaders rally every time to find an explanation for his nonsense ...... e.g. fine people on both sides, he was only joking etc.

This is a transcript of what he said exactly. Most sites state that it can be understood both ways because after the sentence with "hoax" he does not say anything on how the Democrats spin it or politicize it. Instead, he describes the current status of the Coronavirus situation and what brags about what he did.

View attachment 125235

according to the snopes website:

" Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax. "

 

[ShadyFei]

These are the current figures from the CDC

• Total cases: 1,629
• Total deaths: 41

compared to the uk with about 1/5 of the population of the US, 1,372 confirmed cases and 35 deaths. So on that basis the US is not faring too bad overall.

The US confirmed cases are grossly underreported. The numbers are so low because all of their medical professionals do not have CV tests or not enough of them. Epidemiologists estimate there are 100,000 or more cases right now. Becase the virus has a long incubation period, most don’t know they are infected. Their health care system will be at the brink in about 10-14 days.

 

[Harry_BKK]

On the one hand Trump put in place flight restrictions with china [possibly elsewhere too] quite early, but on the other hand he tried to downplay the seriousness of the virus, probably in a vain attempt to keep the stock market (bubble) prices intact.

I do not believe he is micro managing the CDC strategy, he doesn't do detail, is not a scientist or medically qualified in anyway.

These are the current figures from the CDC

• Total cases: 1,629
• Total deaths: 41

compared to the uk with about 1/5 of the population of the US, 1,372 confirmed cases and 35 deaths. So on that basis the US is not faring too bad overall.

The more Trump is criticised the more he will do to prioritise it and improve the response, more resources etc...as he wants to be popular.

Don't test, not many cases - simple Mr T strategy.

Despite the ban, there were flights landing in the US from China every week, much less than usual but not completely stopped

 

[mack341]

The US confirmed cases are grossly underreported. The numbers are so low because all of their medical professionals do not have CV tests or not enough of them. Epidemiologist estimate there are 100,000 or more cases right now. Becase the virus has a long incubation period, most don’t know they are infected. Their health care system will be at the brink in about 10-14 days.

You're probably right but it's the same in the uk, a shortage or rationing of tests, I doubt we are doing more than the US and we have a national health service, under the govt's direct control, as our main health provider not private hospitals like the US.

I don't think he is doing too bad now, except trying to buy this german vaccine company sounds very trumpian and silly/crass though.

 

[Harry_BKK]

deleted

 

[ladyhawke]

3: Initially, Trump declared COVID-19 a "hoax" perpetrated by the Democrats and MSM.

He didn't declare the COVID19 a Hoax, he declared their politicization of it a hoax. The media spun it.

Right at 1:02 with Bloomberg

You are correct. Unfortunately, the general perception is that Trump called COVID-19 a hoax, and in this case, I admit he has been unfairly pilloried.

However, many of his other comments on COVID-19 are indefensible, e.g.
- "I don't take responsibility at all" regarding the diagnostic testing shortage

- claiming that health insurance providers had agreed to waive their customers payments for coronavirus-related treatment.

- falsely declaring that any American who needs a coronavirus test can get one.

The list goes on and on and on. If only he would lead the nation - after all, it is supposed to be the UNITED States - instead of bullying and insulting and ducking issues he can't avoid or control.

And then there is his classic tweet from Nov 9th 2013, which he obviously doesn't believe applies to him, even though he is the President:

Leadership: Whatever happens, you're responsible. If it doesn't happen, you're responsible.

 

[ladyhawke]

Funny how you cheerleaders rally every time to find an explanation for his nonsense ...... e.g. fine people on both sides, he was only joking etc.

This is a transcript of what he said exactly. Most sites state that it can be understood both ways because after the sentence with "hoax" he does not say anything on how the Democrats spin it or politicize it. Instead, he describes the current status of the Coronavirus situation and what brags about what he did.

View attachment 125235

In this instance, Harry, I don't believe Trump was calling COVID-19 a hoax. One of the rare instances where I believe he is being unfairly maligned.

 

[Harry_BKK]

In this instance, Harry, I don't believe Trump was calling COVID-19 a hoax. One of the rare instances where I believe he is being unfairly maligned.

Then he should finally learn to avoid a word salad when he speaks.