North Korea?

sufferinsilence

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There will be Democratic primaries and caucasuses starting in February, Iowa is up first. After the February votes alot of candidates will be done, but it's probably after Super Tuesday early March that there'll be a clear view of who's going to be the frontrunner.
 

Steviedoo

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i suppose when trump said he would drain the swamp...he didn't mean the corrupt crooks he surrounded himself with...


  • Roger Stone, A federal jury on Friday found Roger Stone
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    of lying to Congress and witness tampering in relation to his work on President Trump’s 2016 campaign,
  • Michael Cohen, Trump’s former personal lawyer, was sentenced in December 2018 to three years of prison for lying to Congress, campaign finance violations and tax evasion, and separately received an additional two months of prison time for lying to Congress about a Moscow Trump Tower deal.
  • George Papadopoulos, a former Trump foreign policy advisor, was
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    in September 2018 to 14 days in prison (with a year of supervised release) after pleading guilty to lying to FBI agents about his contacts with Russian intermediaries during the 2016 campaign; he
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    to run for Katie Hill’s vacant California Congressional seat.
  • Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign manager, was
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    by a Virginia court of tax and bank fraud in August 2018, and in November 2018 voided his plea deal (by lying to investigators) in separate federal charges brought by Mueller; he’s currently serving a combined seven and a half years in prison from both cases.
  • Rick Gates, a former deputy to Manafort during the Trump campaign,
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    in February 2018 to charges of conspiracy against the United States and making false statements;
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    a plea bargain, he faces between four to six years in prison, but his sentencing date has yet to happen⁠—partially because he
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    against Stone.
  • Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security advisor, pleaded guilty in December 2017 to lying to the FBI but nearly two years later has yet to be sentenced; his sentencing has been scheduled for early December, but could be upended by a new claim of innocence filed in federal court.
 
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mack341

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Roger Stone facing a lengthy jail term is a joke, the man is nothing more than a deluded showman, tricking himself that he is still a big political mover and shaker with influence. He probably lies to himself several times a day, let alone congress. To go to all this national effort and cost to investigate and try him as if he were some mastermind criminal is silly. The FBI swat team raid on his home was laughable, machine guns and body armour as though he was as dangerous as el chapo :laugh:

Stone shouldn't have even been giving testimony to congress, he had no part in anything as there was no collusion for him to have a role in in the first place. [And probably no russian hacking but some facebook/social media ads attacking hillary]

..the bbc refer to him simply as 'trump ally' in their propaganda intended headline but I doubt Trump could have stopped him, the man was a liability to trump's election more than anything else, he had been exposed as a swinger by the national enquirer in the 90's, not exactly the kind of helper you need when trying to win conservatives over.

And the corporate media gloating over the fact he's been convicted is sick; an old, eccentric political maverick has to spend potentially the rest of his life behind bars, for what? He's not harmed anybody as far as I can tell. When all the other govt officials and politicians do far worse and get away with it, time and again, people like cheney, rumsfeld, powell etc... the world's going/gone mad! :mad:
 
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Steviedoo

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Roger Stone facing a lengthy jail term is a joke, the man is nothing more than a deluded showman, tricking himself that he is still a big political mover and shaker with influence. He probably lies to himself several times a day, let alone congress. To go to all this national effort and cost to investigate and try him as if he were some mastermind criminal is silly. The FBI swat team raid on his home was laughable, machine guns and body armour as though he was as dangerous as el chapo :laugh:

Stone shouldn't have even been giving testimony to congress, he had no part in anything as there was no collusion for him to have a role in in the first place. [And probably no russian hacking but some facebook/social media ads attacking hillary]

..the bbc refer to him simply as 'trump ally' in their propaganda intended headline but I doubt Trump could have stopped him, the man was a liability to trump's election more than anything else, he had been exposed as a swinger by the national enquirer in the 90's, not exactly the kind of helper you need when trying to win conservatives over.

And the corporate media gloating over the fact he's been convicted is sick; an old, eccentric political maverick has to spend potentially the rest of his life behind bars, for what? He's not harmed anybody as far as I can tell. When all the other govt officials and politicians do far worse and get away with it, time and again, people like cheney, rumsfeld, powell etc... the world's going/gone mad! :mad:


We are not to put anyone in jail because they are too old. Or because their crimes weren’t as big as anyone else’s?

Or because he wasn’t even supposed to be testifying but yet he found it necessary to lie.


The point of my post was look how many people trump associates with that are criminals.


What are the chances that Trump is less corrupt than two of his lawyers, his campaign chair, his deputy campaign manager and his oldest political advisor?
 
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mack341

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I wouldn't oppose him getting 12 months or something along those lines, but the whole case sounds like a farce.

The witness he tampered with, randy credico, was misleading stone that he had a direct link/access to assange. Stone wanted credico to help him get assange to appear on his, stone's, radio show. And it mushroomed from there.

from cnn:

Credico continued to mislead Stone, by implying to him he was reaching Assange about WikiLeaks' Democratic email releases.

....Stone allegedly falsely told the House Intelligence Committee that Credico had been his backchannel to Assange. But prosecutors allege Stone had a different person, author and conspiracy theorist Jerome Corsi, attempting to get in touch with the WikiLeaks founder to help the Trump campaign."

Stone had actually told his associate Corsi to get to Assange in 2016, but instead told the House that Credico was his backchannel to WikiLeaks. After Stone testified on the Hill, he sent scores of emails to Credico, threatening him and peppering his texts and emails with foul and explicit language.

During testimony, a former FBI agent who worked on the case said Credico emailed Stone eight times between March 2018 and May 2018 insisting that it was wrong for Stone to have told the House he was a backchannel to WikiLeaks. [even though credico had led stone to believe this himself]

Over a series of text messages, Credico confronted Stone on asking him to cover Stone's alleged perjury. Credico pointed out to Stone, via text, that he wasn't a backchannel, but Stone had told the House committee he had a backchannel."

There was no actual crime committed by stone to begin with, for mueller to raid his home etc..it's all come about by telling congress credico was his back channel, and to be fair to stone credico had led him up the garden path to believe this to some degree.

If he were to get twenty years for this charade, which the bbc were suggesting is a possibility, that in itself would be a crime.

Edit: without mueller, none of this happens, manafort etc... if you're determined to go on a witch hunt you're gonna find some witches to burn. I don't like the US justice system's way of blackmailing people to be witnesses for the prosecution, 'we won't go after you, if you testify against him' it's a stasi type tactic, which can be misused. And the plea bargaining that goes on, like with flynn, people gamble and admit guilt for fear of a draconian sentence if they don't. If you're associated with trump in any way would you really want your destiny decided by a jury residing in a democrat voting state/area?
 
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Steviedoo

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I wouldn't oppose him getting 12 months or something along those lines, but the whole case sounds like a farce.

The witness he tampered with, randy credico, was misleading stone that he had a direct link/access to assange. Stone wanted credico to help him get assange to appear on his, stone's, radio show. And it mushroomed from there.

from cnn:

Credico continued to mislead Stone, by implying to him he was reaching Assange about WikiLeaks' Democratic email releases.

....Stone allegedly falsely told the House Intelligence Committee that Credico had been his backchannel to Assange. But prosecutors allege Stone had a different person, author and conspiracy theorist Jerome Corsi, attempting to get in touch with the WikiLeaks founder to help the Trump campaign."

Stone had actually told his associate Corsi to get to Assange in 2016, but instead told the House that Credico was his backchannel to WikiLeaks. After Stone testified on the Hill, he sent scores of emails to Credico, threatening him and peppering his texts and emails with foul and explicit language.

During testimony, a former FBI agent who worked on the case said Credico emailed Stone eight times between March 2018 and May 2018 insisting that it was wrong for Stone to have told the House he was a backchannel to WikiLeaks. [even though credico had led stone to believe this himself]

Over a series of text messages, Credico confronted Stone on asking him to cover Stone's alleged perjury. Credico pointed out to Stone, via text, that he wasn't a backchannel, but Stone had told the House committee he had a backchannel."

There was no actual crime committed by stone to begin with, for mueller to raid his home etc..it's all come about by telling congress credico was his back channel, and to be fair to stone credico had led him up the garden path to believe this to some degree.

If he were to get twenty years for this charade, which the bbc were suggesting is a possibility, that in itself would be a crime.
i really think you are missing the point.
 

Kroffe

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"In emails and texts, Stone told Mr Credico among other things: "Prepare to die," "You're a rat. A stoolie," and "Stonewall it." He even threatened Mr Credico's therapy dog, Bianca, saying he was "going to take that dog away from you", the trial heard. "

Dude had it coming.

Wonder if he will be making more of these "funny" videos now.
 

mack341

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south east england
"In emails and texts, Stone told Mr Credico among other things: "Prepare to die," "You're a rat. A stoolie," and "Stonewall it." He even threatened Mr Credico's therapy dog, Bianca, saying he was "going to take that dog away from you", the trial heard. "

Dude had it coming.

Wonder if he will be making more of these "funny" videos now.
kroffe when it comes to politics, you're not the same cuddly bear you normally are, you get your claws out straightaway :laugh:

come on, you want stone incarcerated for 20 years?
 

Kroffe

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kroffe when it comes to politics, you're not the same cuddly bear you normally are, you get your claws out straightaway :laugh:

come on, you want stone incarcerated for 20 years?
Threatening to murder a witness makes him deserve atleast that.
Why do you think he should get away with it is a better question i think.
And "he/she/it did that" is not a defense for what Roger Stone has done.
 

sufferinsilence

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Edit: without mueller, none of this happens, manafort etc... if you're determined to go on a witch hunt you're gonna find some witches to burn. I don't like the US justice system's way of blackmailing people to be witnesses for the prosecution, 'we won't go after you, if you testify against him' it's a stasi type tactic, which can be misused. And the plea bargaining that goes on, like with flynn, people gamble and admit guilt for fear of a draconian sentence if they don't. If you're associated with trump in any way would you really want your destiny decided by a jury residing in a democrat voting state/area?
So now it's all the fault of Robert Mueller? If you get caught doing criminal stuff, do you blame the investigators that catch you? Or is it your fault and should you accept you were wrong?

I agree with you the US system is severely flawed. You could also ask: if you're a known "never Trumper" and are on trial, would you really want your destiny decided by a conservative judge or a jury residing in a republican county or state?
 

mack341

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So now it's all the fault of Robert Mueller? If you get caught doing criminal stuff, do you blame the investigators that catch you? Or is it your fault and should you accept you were wrong?

I agree with you the US system is severely flawed. You could also ask: if you're a known "never Trumper" and are on trial, would you really want your destiny decided by a conservative judge or a jury residing in a republican county or state?
I know what you mean, I edited that out of my post, about getting a fair trial in a strongly partisan environment if there is a political element to the charge being faced; however I don't think it equates the same here, to the situation now, with many afflicted strongly by trump derangement syndrome, which takes bias and the difficulty of making a fair judgement to the next level.

The thing with mueller and the various indictments, is the context and background to it all. I haven't read all the details regarding manafort etc...but my sense is it's not groundbreaking stuff, but the best mueller and his team could find to inflict as much collateral damage as possible on trump.

The trump hating public ought to be a bit careful for what they wish for, an all powerful deep state could turn against their candidate when the policies don't quite fit with the deep state's preferred agenda. look at tulsi gabbard, not quite enough of a warhawk for the msm so must be attacked whenever possible.
 

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