New microgaming games: is it just me or do they have the worst payout?

[yoshirules]

I was looking forward to these new games.
Played them at 1 cent a line (sometimes 2 cents), but lost my money ($80,-) in no time, no free spins at all, except for the rock game, got the bonus, but also no return in the bonus.

Was wondering if you had other experiences. Had no fun with these games at all. And thats too bas, cause i dont mind losing, but i would like to have had some play time for my money

 

[De Beuker]

I was looking forward to these new games.
Played them at 1 cent a line (sometimes 2 cents), but lost my money ($80,-) in no time, no free spins at all, except for the rock game, got the bonus, but also no return in the bonus.

Was wondering if you had other experiences. Had no fun with these games at all. And thats too bas, cause i dont mind losing, but i would like to have had some play time for my money

Same here
Was playing Silver Fang, looks very promising, but it was grumphy as hell I suppose, couldn't hit anything worth more than 10x bet, what a moneysucker.
Took me way over 300 spins to trigger the 15 free spins at 5x multiplier for an amazing 8x bet.:notworthy
I'm sure it has some potential for big freespin wins as the wilds are stacked and the multiplier is ofcourse awesome.
But the wilds have to hit and they didn't.

The Spa game..
Looks aweful and plays very slow, but that might also be my PC.
Couldn't hit anything, quit after 50 spins.

Only played a few spins on the rock game, as I don't like that type of slots anyway. (Bearly Fishing type)

And Isis we already know

Not impressed, I'll stick to Centre Court and Peddle Power.

 

[Setsuna]

Played Wealth Spa in play money mode ... well, be prepared if you want to hit free spins , as the coin symbol show up in the center reel once every 75~100 games - however bonus games are paying very well , and "everything pays as scatter" free spins have high win potential .

 

[Slotster!]

50p (minimum bet) spins (30p for the very last one)

Important points are a) The total time played b) The number of spins c) The
closing balance in the bottom left

No free spins, didn't get over 10x bet in 330 presses.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Slotster!]

Ever the glutton for punishment, back I went... Nearly dragged 100x out of the bitch:

 

[Slotster!]

...

 

[rockycatt]

i think they need six monthes to get broken in or, broken into

 

[brianzz]

I played that Spa game, thought it sucked, I have a fast processor and a gig of ram and it still played slooooooooooow.. although turning the background sounds off helped a little.

 

[hippo925]

Yeah... i gave the silver fang one a try and thought the same thing. Good potential but very stingy unless you hit the bonus ( and i did not hit the bonus either.) kinda liked it though... my kind of pacing and huge potential, sort of like cashapillar.

 

[Pinababy69]

Yeah... i gave the silver fang one a try and thought the same thing. Good potential but very stingy unless you hit the bonus ( and i did not hit the bonus either.) kinda liked it though... my kind of pacing and huge potential, sort of like cashapillar.

I gave the Get Rocked one a few spins last night, only played 25 lines or 25c a spin. Did get the bonus a few times....the Solo bonus doesn't pay much, largest win I got was $5.00. Others were about $1.75. I did get one free spin round, 10 spins X3...and it paid $17 for a 25c bet.

I really want to try the Silver Fang one, but 50 lines is really rich for my blood (and budget). I've yet to even try Cashapillar, lol. Silver Fang has stacked wilds right? Is that the wolf?

 

[me_and_ed]

Takes forever to get the spins.

 

[Pinababy69]

How much were you betting Me_and_ed? And is that $955 or $155? My old tired eyes, are seeing a blur, lol.

 

[me_and_ed]

How much were you betting Me_and_ed? And is that $955 or $155? My old tired eyes, are seeing a blur, lol.

No its not your eyes, took a damn MS upgrade and I get this shit white box, gotta put Irfanview back in, anyway it was 1penny max bet, $5/spins, almost 200x

 

[parpol]

New WSlots!

 

[skiny]

I gave it 100 spins at 1 coin for each of the 50 lines and my biggest hit was a buck fifty. I think it cost me about 30 bucks.

 

[me_and_ed]

This game is not great, 417 spins before feature and 394 before feature, 2 features over 800 spins and most payouts shite.

 

[wouterbenn.]

The wealth spa and the Silver Fang have been benificial for me, no complaints from my side

 

[shadow123]

Done pretty well on Fang,few features but they paid.
Spa was dire for me, 40 to get 5 coins on 20p play, free spins
gave 12.50
One new game which has been very good (so far) is the billionare gran pub slot - quite a few decent payouts on low stakes.On the other hand the new
darts pub slot is about the worst they have made.

 

[Rusty]

Got sent a free chip which brought me out of early retirement, thank god it wasn't more of my money - I have played 3 different software and 8 deposits in the last 24 hours and I have not had over 70% return on any of them, that says it all really.

Anyway Health Spa I just jumped in and after nearly 100 spins wondered how you activated the feature so checked and was amazed to find you need a coin symbol to hit in the middle of the last reel - I didn't even see a coin symbol
So then I tried Rock on for over 250 spins, hit the bonus round for a few tims bet but no free spins.
Over to silver Fang and managed 2 sets of free spins in 200+spins
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Must be that darned variance again only it doesn't seem that variable - hit Jack shit continue till bust.

Seriously how can you not get over your start balance one in 8 deposits if the slots are 95%+
Casinos really don't care any more (If they ever did), it is Daylight robbery for the most part.

Right hibernation time.

 

[triple777s]

Hi everyone.

I wrote an article a while ago about this very subject. I love microgaming casinos, always have, and I am a big fan of the older multi payline bonus round slots like Thunderstruck and Springbreak. With the older games even on a minimum of a 45 cent bet on 1 penny a line, if you hit a winning combination you at least win almost your bet back, but with the newer games, on a 45 cent bet, you can win as little as 2 cents!! come on!

Here is one of the articles...just my opinion though..lollll

One Pay Line Slot Machines, the Forgotten Slots?

I have been an online gambler for many years, and slot machines are my thing. I just love the anticipation of the spinning reels, and waiting to see what goodies are going to land on my pay lines! Back a few years ago, when I first started out with online gaming, one pay line slots where the slot machines to play. Easy to play and understand, and the winning percentage was really good, I mean I could play a one pay line slot game for hours on ten bucks! The reason my money would last so long was because when you bet, say a quarter, and you hit even the smallest winning combination on a slot machine, you are still going to win back at least the amount of your bet, and most of your playing time, you would have winning combinations at least 50% of the time, so your money would last a long time if played right. And this to me is great odds, lots of fun, and enough gambling time for your money with out going broke if you happen to lose. Then the software company microgaming, created some new slot games, and video slot games a couple of years ago, that had, 9 pay lines, 15 pay lines, 20 pay lines, and so on and so on. Now a days you have slot games that have 100 pay lines! Now these games are exciting, they have bonus rounds, free spins, wild symbols, and more, but the pay off for that many pay lines on a slot game, are really not that good! If you bet a minimum bet on a 20 pay line slot and hit the smallest possible winning combination youre lucky if you win 5 cents. So think about this, if you bet 20 cents, on a 20 pay line slot game, [which is one penny per line, the smallest amount] and you hit on one pay line, the smallest prize possible, you win 2 cents! That is an 18 cent loss! Where with a one pay line slot game, you at least win back your bet. Now if you are playing a multi pay line slot game and hit some wilds symbols, or get some bonus rounds, yes you can win a lot of coins, even thousands, but the odds of hitting those bonus rounds are not as good as you odds hitting a big coin prize on a one pay line slot. So my question was, are the one pay line slot games the forgotten slots? I really hope not, those old classic games are some of the best slot games to play, whether your playing online, or at land based casinos, or whether you playing at a microgaming casino or a rtg or rival casino. They all have multi pay line slots, and come out with new ones every single month, and these games are the ones they promote the most. Have you ever wondered why they get the most attention from the casinos? Because they know the gamblers will end up spending more on those slot games, with less wins, then they will on the older more gambler friendly slot games! Food for thought.

 

[falderal]

I don't trust Microgaming

The following is the culmination of hundreds of experiments involving hundreds of games, all MGS casinos, and hundreds of deposits and bonuses at every MGS casino, since they first opened.

After playing MGS software for years, I have seen troubling developments in recent times. Microgaming clearly gives better returns on bonus wagers (during one's 30x playthrough requirement). The returns on a deposit are woefully less, and after meeting playthrough requirements on a bonus, they are roughly the same.

It's very simple: the payout audits are not acknowledging the difference between a deposit and a bonus.

Suppose I deposit and get roughly a 50% payout, then I get a bonus and get a 110% payout, until the 27th playthrough or so (probably based on actual balance). Then it is set to lose, lose, lose. This way, the aggregate payout will show its average of 97%, which is very impressive, but most of the time, the money cannot be withdrawn, being subject to remaining playthrough.

I would like to see open books on this subject, since nowhere in the terms will one find the methodology behind the audit. It's Microgaming's best kept secret - and the secret to their success.

Don't get me wrong here: it is not that one cannot win with deposit or bonus funds, only that the odds are far more stacked against you than the audits would have you believe. Winning money at MGS is easy, but trying to withdraw these winnings is far more difficult, being usually buried under impossible playthrough requirements, and undisclosed software settings.

A fan of Microgaming since its inception, I'm afraid I won't be depositing with MGS any more. You'll get a more honest return from Goldman Sachs.

Audit the audit!

 

[felicie]

I trust them more than the others for sure but without meaning to derail this thread I just don't get what the whole point of the change over is? It makes no sense to me at all and it's frustrating the sht out of me since I keep analyzing it over and over in my head. EEEEEK!

 

[skiny]

I did fairly well on the new Thunderstruck 2 game the first night I played it. I've played it 4 times since then and it literally hits zero almost every single spin. After 50 or 100 spins I just have to give up. Even getting the wildstorm feature twice in 5 spins didn't help. They both won nothing. I can't remember when the last time was I triggered a free spin bonus.

 

[me_and_ed]

I am not sure if my theory is just luck or phooey, anyway I always seem to do well the first or second day of new games release, than pretty much hit the wall, bonuses are fewer and farther in between.

 

[Bencuri]

I was looking forward to these new games.
Played them at 1 cent a line (sometimes 2 cents), but lost my money ($80,-) in no time, no free spins at all, except for the rock game, got the bonus, but also no return in the bonus.

Was wondering if you had other experiences. Had no fun with these games at all. And thats too bas, cause i dont mind losing, but i would like to have had some play time for my money

This is usual at Microgaming, and not only with the new slots. Many of the most popularized slots pay out very badly. Just try freeroll tournaments, and you can see it without risking your money. I have played Loaded several times on freeroll tournament, no freespin at all. Playtech slots pay out better.

 

[falderal]

Odds throttling

Microgaming and RTG both engage in "odds throttling", I'm sure. Real money definitely plays generally different than bonus money. If they didn't, they'd have little to fear by having traditionally low playthrough requirements. But because they have to increase the odds on bonus money spins so they can take a bigger cut from real money spins, a player stands an increased chance at a withdrawable win.

By throttling the odds higher during the first 28x playthrough, then dropping them to near zero for the last required 2x (MG), one is pretty much guaranteed to fall below the $50 minimum withdrawal. A deposit is required, which then requires a minimum play (or a player can get kicked out). During the minimum play, the grab continues, and so the potentially withdrawable win is often erased.

This throttling is criminal, I'm sure. At least, it would be if the host countries had laws regarding representation and reporting. However, even the auditors have been caught doing shady business. PWC have to be forced into disclosing their methodology, which, I'm sure will reveal the kind of discepencies we've all observed.

It's at the point where I'm ready to drop any casino that offers bonuses. Lasseters and AusVegas were great casinos, and I enjoyed their software til their sad end. But they were likely not profitable being an honest casino competing against wealthy PWC-assisted frauds.

 

[mclee321]

Microgaming and RTG both engage in "odds throttling", I'm sure. Real money definitely plays generally different than bonus money.

It doesn't you're wrong.

Losing players endlessly making up excuses really irratates me for some reason.

You have the same odds when pressing 'spin' if you are playing with play money, real money or a bonus.

The RTP has been discussed for RTG and it's established they can only be set to one of three level by RTG themselves, not on the fly in anyway.

And you think a giant and well respected company like Microgaming would have that kind of ability for operators? They would be dead in a heartbeat if it came out.

Some rogue software in the past has played better in free money, but we aren't talking about some rinky dink scam here.

Please grow up and get over it.

 

[hakapuku]

It doesn't you're wrong.

Losing players endlessly making up excuses really irratates me for some reason.

You have the same odds when pressing 'spin' if you are playing with play money, real money or a bonus.

The RTP has been discussed for RTG and it's established they can only be set to one of three level by RTG themselves, not on the fly in anyway.

And you think a giant and well respected company like Microgaming would have that kind of ability for operators? They would be dead in a heartbeat if it came out.

Some rogue software in the past has played better in free money, but we aren't talking about some rinky dink scam here.

Please grow up and get over it.

Have you ever heard of Enron for example? Microgaming is a tiny company compared to what Enron was. Unfortunately, in today's business world one should base his beliefs on something more important than just the words "big and respected".

 

[mclee321]

Have you ever heard of Enron for example? Microgaming is a tiny company compared to what Enron was. Unfortunately, in today's business world one should base his beliefs on something more important than just the words "big and respected".

Enron's problems stemmed from the fact they created billions worth of assets and profit where they didn't exsit. This had nothing to do with the physical operation of providing power.

Microgaming have produced a platform fror operators to set up casinos. How would this scam work? Only tell a few of the operators they could massively change percentages on the fly? Tell them all? Trust that it would never get out even considering the thousands of people who would have to know? And fool the juristrictions and bodies the operators are working in?

You haven't thought this through, I'm talking about a specific process that lets the casino scam the customers. Not massive white collar crime like Enron.

If you wish to patronise me again, go ahead, I don't give a crap. Just stop acting like children because you can't take responsibility for your Gambling.

 

[hakapuku]

Enron's problems stemmed from the fact they created billions worth of assets and profit where they didn't exsit. This had nothing to do with the physical operation of providing power.

Microgaming have produced a platform fror operators to set up casinos. How would this scam work? Only tell a few of the operators they could massively change percentages on the fly? Tell them all? Trust that it would never get out even considering the thousands of people who would have to know? And fool the juristrictions and bodies the operators are working in?

You haven't thought this through, I'm talking about a specific process that lets the casino scam the customers. Not massive white collar crime like Enron.

If you wish to patronise me again, go ahead, I don't give a crap. Just stop acting like children because you can't take responsibility for your Gambling.

The question is how MG's profit is formed. In my opinion MG gets some portion of every operator's profit. So MG can adjust their software the way they want without a need to inform a specific casino operator about it. And both sides seem to be satisfied.

 

[falderal]

You said it, therefore it's true?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hakapuku
Have you ever heard of Enron for example? Microgaming is a tiny company compared to what Enron was. Unfortunately, in today's business world one should base his beliefs on something more important than just the words "big and respected".

Enron's problems stemmed from the fact they created billions worth of assets and profit where they didn't exsit. This had nothing to do with the physical operation of providing power.

Microgaming have produced a platform fror operators to set up casinos. How would this scam work? Only tell a few of the operators they could massively change percentages on the fly? Tell them all? Trust that it would never get out even considering the thousands of people who would have to know? And fool the juristrictions and bodies the operators are working in?

You haven't thought this through, I'm talking about a specific process that lets the casino scam the customers. Not massive white collar crime like Enron.

If you wish to patronise me again, go ahead, I don't give a crap. Just stop acting like children because you can't take responsibility for your Gambling.

Your larger "argument" is based on the notion that because YOU can't think of how it's done, it cannot be done. Mine is based on mathematical observation. If you don't trust mine, try samping hundreds of bonuses over many RTG and MG casinos.

The first flaw is your belief the throttling is done at the operator level. Nope. The operator is an investor using the software to make money. They must be convinced of the same low-risk/high profitability of their investment. By throttling BUILT INTO THE SOFTWARE, the bulk of wins can be buried in the pre-withdrawable phase, while satisfying auditors that the aggregate returns are as stated.

The second flaw is your belief that the software is random. Yet even a pinhead could see the cycling in MG, which at one point was set at precisely 105 spins. In RTG, the most obvious proof of throttling is that the last wager before one's funds FIRST run out is far more likely to result in a bonus round than the average spin (more than 20x). This is because it will be impossible to withdraw at this point, and even with a higher-end win, it will still likely fall below the withdrawable amount. The fact that this occurs at a specific balance is proof that the software reads one's balance, which is highly unethical.

The third flaw is your belief that a trustable wager can exist between an ultimately anonymous organization and a fully identified individual. It can't. The gambler must trust the software blindly - no cutting the cards, no holding the dice. Considering the ease of abuse, it would be safe to assume widespread abuse of trust, as can be seen by the high percentage of known rogues.

You sound like a lobbyist rather than a player, mclee321, and are certainly neither actuary nor forensic accountant. However, I grew up in this industry, and can assure you that you are talking through your hat, and not through your experience. Beyond that, you clearly do not know human nature.

I ask: if the software is truly random, what is so wrong with revealing the source code?

 

[mclee321]

Yes thats it, I'm a lobbyist! I'm literally tripping over all of the gold bars the casinos have paid me to be their shill, as I'm trying to get through the ornate door of my 200 bedroom castle.

I have nothing to do with the casino industry, I work as a systems engineer in IT. But of course for you, printing your opinion as fact is nothing new.

Microgaming and RTG both engage in "odds throttling", I'm sure.

As yes, from your massive audit of the industry you have come to this result. Nothing like playing a few hundred rounds to come to a scentific conclusion, rather than the serveral million it would actually take.

Your next protracted rant is one long reason why I couldn't possibly understand the intricacies of the situation, possibly because I'm such a trusting, naive dullard. You are simply inventing situations to back your argument.

You backed up none of the points with any evidence. You stating your opinion with complete conviction, does not make it real. I have no obligation to trust or believe you.

You sound like a lobbyist rather than a player, mclee321, and are certainly neither actuary nor forensic accountant. However, I grew up in this industry, and can assure you that you are talking through your hat, and not through your experience. Beyond that, you clearly do not know human nature.

This last paragraph really does take the award home. It smacks of someone desperately trying to punctuate their weak argument with a profound closing statement. It was awful and you failed.

Beyond that, you clearly do not know human nature.

and can assure you that you are talking through your hat

Maybe I don't Yoda, I will endeavour to sit in front of my PC counting rounds of slots for the next year. Above all else this will teach me. My results will be broadcast through my hat.

I ask: if the software is truly random, what is so wrong with revealing the source code?

You're from 'the industry' and you don't realise why software companies don't release their source code? You really blew it there. Barring open source projects, companies don't spend years and millions developing intellectual properties just to vomit them out on the net for any one to copy/reverse engineer/or exploit. You surely can't be that naive.

 

[falderal]

Yes, as a matter of fact, I am that naive!

Despite your unproductive vitriol, you offer nothing by means of truly addressing my observations, rather, you avoid them by attacking the least of my argument. You are an argumentative god. :notworthy

Yes, most aspects of source can be made public, since this is copyrighted material. Like any book. Of course, there will always be countries that do not obey copyright. Yet still, Bill Gates is a billionaire. The real fear in proprietary fraud is not fear of idea theft, but fear of exposure. Madoff comes to mind. Maybe Bre-X.

Where do you address the fundamental flaws in the audit? You diminish my hundreds of thousands of spins at scores of casinos into hundreds of spins. And you avoid mention of the mathematically inexplicable: bonuses of several hundred percent, with playthroughs which could not, on average, extinguish the bonus. That is, if the payouts are to be believed.

Of course, I should take your argument and statement of fact with the same trust you provide to me. Your expertise remains unproven, too. However, I am not asking that one rely on my word alone; rather, I insist that from a scientific perspective we are placing our entire trust on the audit of an employee of the casino - which of course, is not up to the basic standards of any independent body. It's like trusting Madoff's accountant.

Secondly, regardless of the statistics themselves, there is not a trace of qualification of the numbers. No mention of the role that bonuses play, for example. Anyone who plays the games regularly has surely seen the cycling; that is, they've seen how a series of declines will end with a top-up win, roughly equal to the loss. After several of these cycles, a sharp decline will follow. This is not random.

Not all software takes the same approach. Some use a single up-cycle followed by descending cycles until near depletion, then a short revival and complete loss. Others give decent odds on deposits and near-zero on bonuses. All software observes and responds to the player's balance.

You provided lots of my quotes. I will take it that quoting is your specialty. I'm a mathematician and a programmer who worked in the gambling field for 8 years. I'll take your word for it that you know how to use a computer. You can take my word for it that you don't know what you're talking about.

A casino audit by a hired gun and without full qualification of the statements? Obviously, skimming is a work of fiction to you, and all casino operators are run by caring individuals. What's more, corruption is for savage places like Wall Street, and not for the colorful, anonymous world of online gaming.

 

[mclee321]

I choose to disbelieve your 'observations' because they are stated with the mindless conviction of a fanatic who would enjoy attending UFO conventions.

Very well, I'll address your arguments if it means so much to you.

Why are you discounting completely the people who regularly take bonuses and withdraw with the bonus money intact after a long playthrough. There is a whole culture of bonus hunters that make this pay. Is this not convinient for your arguments?

Take a look at KasinoKings website, he has been playing bonuses for years and has consistantly won. He has logs to back up every single deposit and playthrough. Many of these playthroughs were on the software platforms you claim are rigged. This is far more proof than you can offer, my friend.

And finally, as I said in a earlier post, I'm aware of rogue outfits that will exploit the customer. I don't believe RTG and Microgaming can be included in this. Why? The Casinomeister himself informed us of the RTG percentages in a post earlier in the month, and it's clear to me he trusts Microgaming.

It's kinda why I'm here, to hear unbiased news from a player advocate. I trust this site. Are you suggesting he's in on their conspiracy? Or that he, and Max are naive and have no real knowledge of the industy they have been trying to improve for years?

Seriously, just give it up.