New Slot Announcement New 3Dice Slot - Twin Spin - Sorry, Gemini......

[ChopleyIOM]

I see that Berrini's Fortune doesn't have its own thread and since Anna is already aware of the posts above I'll add the Berrini's Fortune changes here and hopefully both can be addressed together, as the scenario is similar.

On opening Berrini's Fortune for the first time following the changes made to the game, this message is displayed.



However on this game the RTP has been nudged up a little bit.

BEFORE.



AFTER.



So no problems on the RTP situation (assuming that the progressive RTP is not being taken from game RTP), but I'm not entirely thrilled by the changes to the game itself.

The changes to the top pays are only available from a 5 scatters trigger, and that's a rare hit. To give you an idea, as of August I'd done 40,000 real money spins on this game and I've never seen a 5 scatters trigger. (And I've done a fair few spins on it since then, still no 5 scatters trigger.)

Now whilst the changes apparently make very little difference to the overall pays for a 3 scatters trigger, the actual win table for a three scatters trigger has been made rather less appealing in my opinion.

Here's what it used to look like.



And here's what it looks like now. (Note the changes at the lower end of the right hand side picks triangle.)



If there's one thing I hate in a slot, it's a free spins round that can run at a 1x multiplier (I think it's one of the weakest aspects of Arctic Adventure), and here we have a change that's taken a worst case scenario of a 2x multiplier on a 3 scatters trigger, and replaced it with a 1x multiplier.

At the same time they've reduced the number of picks for 3 scatters, which makes getting one of the shit picks more likely.

I've played this slot a decent amount (40K+ spins in real money alone), the VAST majority of the features are 3 scatters, 4 scatters is fairly rare, 5 scatters I've never seen.

As such, a change that makes the 'main feature' objectively worse, to compensate for an uplift in a feature you can go over 40K spins for and never see, doesn't seem like a trade off worth making to me.

It sounds perilously close to one of those 'Look at the potential!' style changes, that will never be realised for almost everyone, but presents a more exciting headline number, whilst making the actual game worse.

I'm also concerned about feature frequency, whilst the average pays for a 3 scatters trigger might be about the same overall, has the feature frequency itself changed? (Also, I suspect that whilst the 'pays' might be about the same in terms of what each option is worth, with one less pick per feature, that's going to increase the risk of getting a shit one and therefore reduce the overall value of a 3 scatters trigger.)

On balance I don't like slots being mucked about with at the best of times, and the changes to Berrini's Fortune seem to me like an answer to a question no one was asking. As with Gemini, one can only conclude that the changes push the volatility of the game up by at least some degree, I'd be interested to know by how much.

Grumpy face

 

[Reelsoffun]

Well I will add my 10 pence worth, while i commend 3dice making the changes fully transparent to the player, it does kind of show us that providers can and do change math models on games, even very long standing games, and of course opens more questions!

I wonder why they didn't just make a stand alone game with the changes and called it Deluxe or something, like the MAX versions that Netent have done on some games lately, then they could cater for more players, which would appear their trying to do here.

I am unable to play at 3 dice, me being uk but have always liked the look, idea and math models of some of their games, but I must admit it seems strange to change a long standing game like that.

Maybe 3 dice will confirm just how the linked progressive works, but it would be very unusual if players are not contributing to it in one way or another unless as you say it is a pure added extra of say 0.5% of all bets being seeded into it etc as an extra 0.5% site wide RTP

As for your 40,000 spins comment I doubt thats anywhere near the chance of a 5 scatter, obviously it varies from game to game but its probably going to be way, way higher odds than that and you should not rule out the chance of it happening of being 400,000 to 1 or most likely even greater.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I wonder why they didn't just make a stand alone game with the changes and called it Deluxe or something, like the MAX versions that Netent have done on some games lately, then they could cater for more players, which would appear their trying to do here.

I sort of wondered that myself, but the changes probably don't warrant the 'new' versions of the slots existing as standalone games, and it's not something 3Dice have previously established as a 'thing' that they do either.

In the case of Berrini's Fortune they specifically cite wanting to avoid zero pay features, (by stretching out the 2x spins to 1x spins), which can happen, but they're very rare.

Maybe 3 dice will confirm just how the linked progressive works, but it would be very unusual if players are not contributing to it in one way or another unless as you say it is a pure added extra of say 0.5% of all bets being seeded into it etc as an extra 0.5% site wide RTP

Yes I'd definitely like confirmation on this, hopefully Anna will be able to clarify in due course.

As for your 40,000 spins comment I doubt thats anywhere near the chance of a 5 scatter, obviously it varies from game to game but its probably going to be way, way higher odds than that and you should not rule out the chance of it happening of being 400,000 to 1 or most likely even greater.

Oh for sure I've no doubt that may be the case, my point is however that they've made the feature a player will see 99%+ of the time demonstrably worse (shittier feeling prizes, fewer picks), to make a feature better that a player may never see. And remember, even upon hitting a 5 scatters trigger, there's still a pretty small chance that the top prize will be picked anyway!

The 40,000 spins statement was just to contextualise how rarely one might expect to hit a 5 scatters trigger.

 

[3Dice]

Hi Chopley,

I will try to answer all your question to the best of my ability .

3Dice have made a couple changes to this game, although one of them is (I think?) temporary for the Halloween period.
As you can see, it's linked into the promotional sitewide progressive which as I understand it is funded from outside the slot's actual RTP. (i.e. There's no progressive contribution taken from the slot's RTP, and is funded by 3Dice themselves as an 'extra'.)
I'd definitely like clarity on where the RTP is coming from for the sitewide progressive though.

The Linked Progressive is extra RTP for all the Videoslots, on top of what they were at.

I'd like to know how much the pay profile of the slot has changed overall (it could be tiny, and that 3000x stake win could be a billion to one shot), and also why the change couldn't have been made without negatively affecting the RTP. It's possible that the new reel configuration to allow for the 3000x win simply introduced the RTP reduction as a side effect.

Gemini required a minimal tweak to add that extra Big Pay, which was actually something you suggested.

You are correct in thinking that the new reel configuration to allow for the 3000x win simply introduced the RTP reduction as a side effect. But the progressive puts it back over what it used to be.

Regarding Berrini's Fortune:

So no problems on the RTP situation (assuming that the progressive RTP is not being taken from game RTP), but I'm not entirely thrilled by the changes to the game itself.

The progressive RTP is indeed not being taken from the game RTP.

I'm also concerned about feature frequency, whilst the average pays for a 3 scatters trigger might be about the same overall, has the feature frequency itself changed? (Also, I suspect that whilst the 'pays' might be about the same in terms of what each option is worth, with one less pick per feature, that's going to increase the risk of getting a shit one and therefore reduce the overall value of a 3 scatters trigger.)

I can assure you that the feature frequency is unchanged. It comes in at about the same RTP but it now also benefits from the extra RTP from the linked progressive.

As with Gemini, one can only conclude that the changes push the volatility of the game up by at least some degree, I'd be interested to know by how much.

I will have to check with the techs on this and will try to get a relative volatility number for Gemini.

I hope this answers your questions and if there is anything else I can do for you please let me know.

Kind regards,
Anna

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Thanks for that Anna.

Good to get confirmation that the sitewide progressive is 'bonus' RTP and not coming out of the slots' base RTP.

Did I suggest the change to Gemini? I honestly don't remember doing so, although I did query what its top pay was as Twin Spin is well known to have many reel configurations that look to be possible but in actual fact are not on the win table at all. (As it shifts reel sets depending on the reel joins.)

I still think the changes to Berrini's Fortune make for a worse game overall, (although it still remains a good option from your portfolio), but that's my subjective opinion. (Who knows, maybe one day I'll get the five scatters, hit 3000x stake and change my mind.....)

Anyway, thanks as ever for a quick and comprehensive response, which is more than we'd get from most developers/providers!

For the record, this is the top pay Twin Spin is capable of, 1080x stake, so at 3000x stake plus Gemini certainly has more of that 'p' word we're all so fond of, potential........

I'd be interested to know how the new version looks in terms of volatility though, as Twin Spin was notoriously quite volatile despite its relatively small top prize, and Gemini felt very much the same. (Identical?.....)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I've given the new versions of both Gemini and Berrini's Fortune a decent play now. (Several thousand spins in real money through both.)

Gemini is fine, it basically feels like the same game as before, obviously I haven't seen the NEW 3000X STAKE WIN, but then I never saw the old jackpot on it either, or indeed hit above 500x stake on it from memory. The slight reduction in RTP isn't ideal but it's not a big problem, and it's still the right side of 96%. Overall - no issues, will remain one of my go-to slots at 3Dice. (I'm very curious to know what the reel configuration is for the jackpot win, as Twin Spin did it from a three reel lock on 3-4-5, what does it look like on Gemini?)

Berrini's Fortune is hurt by the changes IMO, however it's not as bad as I'd feared, and I think it'll remain one of my favourite 3Dice slots. I've been stiffed with the 1x pay free spins a few times and that's about as dull as you'd expect, but in reality it doesn't happen that often, and x2, x4, x6 multipliers are still available from three scatters, plus there's the cash value pyramid too.

It's one of my long term goals at 3Dice to hit five scatters on Berrini's Fortune, and knowing there's a 3000x stake win in there gives it a bit more spice I suppose.

Overall, I'd have been happy without the changes to either game, but post-change I'd say Gemini basically feels the same, Berrini's Fortune is a bit worse, but I still like it.

Maybe one day Kyoko's Quest will return.......

 

[sapit222]

Is this maybe the top win for this game?

x3240

 

[ChopleyIOM]

That could certainly be it, that's 81 5OAK ways of the top paying symbol which awards 40x stake.

There are other ways it could be done though, for example the next symbol down pays 20x stake, so 162 ways of that would work out the same.

Another possibility is 243 ways of the third-tier symbol which pays 16x stake, which would make 3888x stake.

All 3Dice said is that the new top prize on Gemini is 'well over 3000x stake', but looking at the pay table I think it'd have to be either the one in the screenshot above, or one of the other two I've suggested there.

However, I'd suspect that the pay is a 'one-off' on the pay table, so if I were a betting man (and I've been known to have a flutter ), I'd say that 81 ways of diamonds is probably the top prize.

Nice to see it caught on camera, whose screenshot is it? Did you land it yourself sapit?

Either way it's a lovely screenshot. I've blasted quite a number of spins myself through Gemini, alas I've only managed to hit the more common decent paying reel combinations so far, and IIRC haven't topped 400x stake on it.

I actually prefer it to Twin Spin, even though I rather like Twin Spin, Gemini has better music and I like the big win animations and tunes too.

 

[sapit222]

That could certainly be it, that's 81 5OAK ways of the top paying symbol which awards 40x stake.

There are other ways it could be done though, for example the next symbol down pays 20x stake, so 162 ways of that would work out the same.

Another possibility is 243 ways of the third-tier symbol which pays 16x stake, which would make 3888x stake.

All 3Dice said is that the new top prize on Gemini is 'well over 3000x stake', but looking at the pay table I think it'd have to be either the one in the screenshot above, or one of the other two I've suggested there.

However, I'd suspect that the pay is a 'one-off' on the pay table, so if I were a betting man (and I've been known to have a flutter ), I'd say that 81 ways of diamonds is probably the top prize.

Nice to see it caught on camera, whose screenshot is it? Did you land it yourself sapit?

Either way it's a lovely screenshot. I've blasted quite a number of spins myself through Gemini, alas I've only managed to hit the more common decent paying reel combinations so far, and IIRC haven't topped 400x stake on it.

I actually prefer it to Twin Spin, even though I rather like Twin Spin, Gemini has better music and I like the big win animations and tunes too.

Yes, this was my win and christmas present from 3Dice.
Shortly after i won this1, another person won the same 81 5OAK diamonds, but with the first symbol on the bottom instead.
The game must have been in a very happy mood i guess.

 

[gambyx7]

There is Synot Twin Spin clone called Sync Spin...max win is little over 2000x (acording to (SLotcatalog)...I will give it a bash.....