NetEnt has joined the the group of providers offering different RTP settings

[Kroffe]

Stated that if you have only few companies, it's been seen many times that competition don't really exist anymore, why could that be? That was speculation about your post where only few casinos are left, now situation is not that and there is competition.

Maybe you could start great casino business as it seem to be so easy with guaranteed few percent winning margins, will promise to deposit at least once Here just seem to quite common opinion that running casino is great business where you just sit down and look how your bank accounts balance is growing and growing, wonder what they did wrong who got out of business, it shouldn't be possible when your RTP is under 100%

Clearly here is loads of expertise about casino business and how it only can be easy to make money, why not to give it a try?

Yeah, but if the casinos lower the rtp even when there is competition, whats the point of having competition?
Is it better to have 90 casinos with low rtp compared to just 10?

If the Swedish market was not profitable, there wouldnt be 90+ casinos with a license.
If they feel that they need to lower rtp to keep it profitable/make more money, i would much rather they went bankrupt so the casinos offering full rtp can soak up their customer-base and stay profitable without the need to lower rtp.

 

[Slottery]

Yeah, but if the casinos lower the rtp even when there is competition, whats the point of having competition?
Is it better to have 90 casinos with low rtp compared to just 10?

If the Swedish market was not profitable, there wouldnt be 90+ casinos with a license.
If they feel that they need to lower rtp to keep it profitable/make more money, i would much rather they went bankrupt so the casinos offering full rtp can soak up their customer-base and stay profitable without the need to lower rtp.

As tried to explain, RTP is not only thing what casinos need to look at (and not only thing players are looking at) but let's just leave it that all who don't provide maximum RTP are greedy bastards (sorry for to call some good casinos here with rude name but that seem to be consensus we ended up ).

 

[Kroffe]

As tried to explain, RTP is not only thing what casinos need to look at (and not only thing players are looking at) but let's just leave it that all who don't provide maximum RTP are greedy bastards (sorry for to call some good casinos here with rude name but that seem to be consensus we ended up ).

Of course its not the only thing they need to look at.
But if the Swedish market had 15-20 casinos instead of 90, none of them would need to lower the rtp to increase profits.
Market is oversaturated, and a culling would not be a bad thing.
Thats not just for the Swedish market, thats for all markets.

And lowering the rtp is probably the easiest way to increase profits since the vast majority of players probably dont even know what it is, or how it works.

Edit: I am glad that you finally see the truth tho.

 

[brianmon]

Meaningless without context - where did they make their profit? UK? Abroad? Betting? Like any big business, if they identify areas that are not cost effective or loss-making, they will act accordingly.

Actually the online-only, operating profit for CVG was 413 million
With gaming producing the largest NGR (1.189 billion)

 

[mack341]

Of course its not the only thing they need to look at.
But if the Swedish market had 15-20 casinos instead of 90, none of them would need to lower the rtp to increase profits.
Market is oversaturated, and a culling would not be a bad thing.
Thats not just for the Swedish market, thats for all markets.

And lowering the rtp is probably the easiest way to increase profits since the vast majority of players probably dont even know what it is, or how it works.

Edit: I am glad that you finally see the truth tho.

It's economies of scale, a bigger casino may also be able to cut a tougher deal with the slot provider, that's the other thing that's being overlooked the player is funding that profitable industry too. If the slot makers like netent are doing well compared to the casinos, maybe they need to shave their cut rather than rtp.

 

[thr0b]

It's economies of scale, a bigger casino may also be able to cut a tougher deal with the slot provider, that's the other thing that's being overlooked the player is funding that profitable industry too. If the slot makers like netent are doing well compared to the casinos, maybe they need to shave their cut rather than rtp.

But why should they shave their cut? They're offering a product that their customers want, and their customers in the main cannot produce themselves.

 

[Kroffe]

It's economies of scale, a bigger casino may also be able to cut a tougher deal with the slot provider, that's the other thing that's being overlooked the player is funding that profitable industry too. If the slot makers like netent are doing well compared to the casinos, maybe they need to shave their cut rather than rtp.

True.
But thats just business.
Like how big stores absorb the customers from small ones, making them go out of business since they cant keep up with the low prices etc.

They cant raise their prices to stay in business, wich is basically what a casino lowering its rtp is doing.
If the market cant support that many without making it worse for the consumer, that means some of them need to go.

 

[mack341]

True.
But thats just business.
Like how big stores absorb the customers from small ones, making them go out of business since they cant keep up with the low prices etc.

They cant raise their prices to stay in business, wich is basically what a casino lowering its rtp is doing.
If the market cant support that many without making it worse for the consumer, that means some of them need to go.

I agree, hope my post didn't confuse you each of the 90 casinos are hiring a live chat team, gdpr officer, accountants, lawyers etc...let's say there are a million customers between them, if you have 10-20 casinos instead they would not need to cut rtp becasue their revenue would shoot up in proportion to the bigger customer share.

Price fixing can be looked at, to make sure the 10-20 casinos weren't operating a kind of cartel, we have govt regulators in the uk that do this role.

 

[mack341]

But why should they shave their cut? They're offering a product that their customers want, and their customers in the main cannot produce themselves.

Well possibly because their cut was formulated in better times, before the UK changed the tax regime for casinos?

The product is changing as well, if the rtp is 94%, a 6% edge and the provider get 0.5% [a total guess] their share of losses/revenue wagered is going up compared to when it was 96%.

You seem to be unduly upset at the idea/prospect?

 

[Kroffe]

I agree, hope my post didn't confuse you each of the 90 casinos are hiring a live chat team, gdpr officer, accountants, lawyers etc...let's say there are a million customers between them, if you have 10-20 casinos instead they would not need to cut rtp becasue their revenue would shoot up in proportion to the bigger customer share.

Price fixing can be looked at, to make sure the 10-20 casinos weren't operating a kind of cartel, we have govt regulators in the uk that do this role.

Dont worry, most things confuse me.

 

[thr0b]

Well possibly because their cut was formulated in better times, before the UK changed the tax regime for casinos?

The product is changing as well, if the rtp is 94%, a 6% edge and the provider get 0.5% [a total guess] their share of losses/revenue wagered is going up compared to when it was 96%.

You seem to be unduly upset at the idea/prospect?

The developer cut is because they develop and maintain the software. Why should they cut their price so that their customer can make more money from their work?

 

[mack341]

The developer cut is because they develop and maintain the software. Why should they cut their price so that their customer can make more money from their work?

Sorry if it wasn't clear but my argument was not so that their customer [ the casino] makes more money from their work but so players can still enjoy 96% slots [which for years has pretty much been the accepted standard for online random slots].

If a casino cull achieves that, there's no need to look at other costs, but if not then laying the cost burden entirely on the player's rtp doesn't sit right with me as you know a player, call me selfish but we're funding the whole (profitable) shooting match as it already is.

 

[thr0b]

But that's down to the casino. The casino needs the developer more. If you've not got the big games, you're not going to last long, so there's no reason for the developer to cut their price.

 

[Matti]

@danofthewibble
But cashback paid, that results in a withdrawal = a returning customer. Look at yourself hahaa

btw. for the current net ent games where you can adjust RTPs we won't be doing that. Don't have the tools in place to properly inform customers and that is a regulatory requirement. So to avoid a mistake we won't be increasing or reducing RTPs.

Hi Jan, Did you have a link to support his?

 

[geordiecolin]

I tagged @Team.Videoslots earlier to get an explanation because it looks rather chaotic with the two versions. It's not even the same for all in the UK when you read the member posts.

Maybe it is connected to the date of registration. Maybe they are just rolling it out. Who knows.

Either way, just having that up there is not right. No casino can withhold any part of your winnings. And calling it a Weekend Booster is misleading as it is your own money you won on the slots. Plus, they do not explain if you hit a payout on a spin that is less than your bet, which means you actually do not have a win. Are they taking it from there too?

While they have a clause in the Weekend Booster part that new players consent to have part of their winnings withheld, there is no such mention in the general casino terms, which new players accept when they register. They do not see the Weekend Booster terms. Neither do the General Terms mention that enrolment is automatic, optional or whatever.

Maybe @ternur could give us his legal opinion.

View attachment 128611

As an honerable member of the bar I look forward to his legal opinion too. After hes finished that coffee

 

[Kroffe]

As an honerable member of the bar I look forward to his legal opinion too. After hes finished that coffee

The kind of bar he is focused on now wont be much help with legal opinions im afraid.

 

[colinsunderland]

Hi Jan, Did you have a link to support his?

Starting to panic

 

[Slottery]

Hi Jan, Did you have a link to support his?

Maybe tagging helps @L&L-Jan , would be interested about this too that it's regulatory requirement to inform all players about changed RTP. it's not change to T&C:s which need to be always notified and RTP (in Eurpean licenses at least) can always been seen from help file.

Couldn't find from UKGC, MGA or SGA that change of games RTP would need to be communicated for players otherwise than having it in help file available.

Of course that's really nice and polite which good casinos would do if changing RTP to higher to lower but very few operators who have reduced it, have provided any communication to players which could been taken as "regulatory requirement" which would be more that everybody have to be informed and acknowledge they have got it.

 

[ternur]

As an honerable member of the bar I look forward to his legal opinion too. After hes finished that coffee

The kind of bar he is focused on now wont be much help with legal opinions im afraid.

I forgot totally forgot about this one. Is this thing still an open issue?

Yes, I've been drinking lately, but had to work tonight because some client thought it would be a great idea to call me on a Saturday night and ask shit to be done by Sunday morning. Some people

 

[goatwack]

I forgot totally forgot about this one. Is this thing still an open issue?

Yes, I've been drinking lately, but had to work tonight because some client thought it would be a great idea to call me on a Saturday night and ask shit to be done by Sunday morning. Some people

Unbelievable. Did this client sound exactly the same? Nothing worse than prank calls

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Just watch out for NetEnt's latest offering 'Rome: The Golden Age', I'm playing it at Rizk on a reasonable (if not amazing) 96.06%, thought I'd take a look over at VS to see if they were running a 94% version and it's even worse than that!

7% house edge on a slot is shockingly bad.

Check those help files!