My input on Software concerns - including Playtech

[banno]

Response to Angahar

Angahar, first of all I appreciate you posting your opinions and information and obviously you seem to be much more knowlegeable than myself and many of us here. You make some great points. I have not been deeply involved in the analysis like you and Clayman are.

I don't however appreciate your BOO HOO, I lost my allowance reference or a the conspiracy theory to "take your 50 bucks". Some of us take losing a little harder than others. And let me repeat myself for the 5th time. I have lost HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS if not $1000 playing Playtec since this past fall or winter betting conservatively. Now if you have the bankroll to absorb that amount of loss without a rotten feeling in your gut then God Bless You.

Understand that seeing how I started this post because of my concerns and you responded with your comments it's difficult for me not to take this personally given your wording. Wheather you assumed that my post came from some young, incompetent, naive fool who scraped up $50 and lost it in a couple hours and just wanted to vent, or you were referring to the numerous other threads that you've read, only you know.

I actually would have preferred just the information for which I would have appreciated and extended my gratitude. Or a straight forward "stop being a f*#&ing whiner", for which I would have responded "F*&# You very much" but not the information along with the cross-eyed references.

I'm an easy going guy for the most part, my friend and am looking to learn something here. I did apologize if my first few posts appeared to be so negative or as you said "a crybaby". Crybaby's get on your nerves and those who are more knowledgeable in a certain areas and have a hard time relaying that information in a respectful manor get on mine. Good Luck.

 

[angahar]

Points taken. I apologize for being an asshole. That rant had been brewing for a while and most of the points were not relevant to your case, so I should have just started a thread with it so that it wasn't leveled at a particular person. Another thing that gets on my nerves is arrogant jerks and my first post represents me that way, so thanks for calling me on it and again I apologize.

happy gambling! (not in a smart-ass way this time . . )

 

[caruso]

LOL. I do love these "nobody cheats becuse they don't need to" posts. Innocence is alive and well. Crooks cheat because that's what crooks do best.

My take is as follows. Stress, my personal opinion:

Microgaming: Currently clean as a whistle. Pre-2002ish, cheating. Heard about the OCA and pulled their socks up fast. If a full set of tests is ever done on the (hopefully now error-free) data before the OCA folk get their kneecaps broken, it'll be revealed. Maybe too time-consuming a task, however. And probably too much risk to the kneecaps.

Crypto: Clean, but I acknowledge many, many complaints about the blackjack game.

RTG: Clean. I've seen some crazy shit at RTG, including a few sessions at least four SDs out. Coincidentally enough, I was playing high stakes at the time. Still, by and large it seems OK.

Boss: Rigged.

Playtech: Rigged.

I daresay any of the above could change at any time. I hope it doesn't. I like MG, Crypto and RTG software and would be sorry if they started / went back to shaving off those few extra percentage points, and since I bear neither Boss nor Playtech any particular malice and I know they're happy being the crooked pondlife scum they are, I hope they carry on cheating and stay happy.

 

[caruso]

My numbers are...

I'm astonished, and confused, at how low your numbers are - I thought you played a lot, and pre-2000 to boot?

LOL, I played twice as many RTG hands last week as you've played in your entire online gambling life. Microgaming isn't far behind, either.

Either I had you figured all wrong, or I'm one sick addict.

 

[angahar]

playtech and boss cheating?

So how is it that these softwares are rigged and yet no one has ever been able to prove it? We are a bunch of paranoid gamblers with total access to all our gamelogs so you would think that someone would be able to find something. Also you have to think about the large number of people (programmers, execs, mathematicians, casino owners, etc) that would have to be "in" on the fact that the software is cheating. Somebody quits or gets a different job and decides to blow the whistle - then what happens. I am not buying the arguement that the casino thugs would come and kill him/her. That's a little too Tom Clancy for me. It's just extemely impractical to run such a massive conspiracy for a long period of time. The casinos make money without cheating. The costs of running their bonus programs pale in comparison to the overhead of operating a land casino, and for every bonus hunter that squeezes $100 out of them there is someone who throws $400 in the slot machines. For a major operator like playtech it would be an extremely bad gamble to risk that for whatever gains they could get out of cheating. We may have to agree to disagree on this one as I just don't see it happening. My personal results, while statistically and practically insignificant to the big picture, are what is most important to ME, and they tell me to keep playing all the major software providers.

Bryan - Do you know any boss or playtech owners or execs? If so, what is your take on the assertion that they are crooked pond scum?

Anyone have any non - anecdotal evidence to present one way or the other?

 

[Clayman]

LOL, I played twice as many RTG hands last week as you've played in your entire online gambling life. Microgaming isn't far behind, either.

I have 92,000+ BJ hands in my database wagering only $771,264. That's it.

As far as OCA goes, my results have been within expectation since day 1 in Nov 1999, a buy 50, get 100, play $150 deal. Whether it's OCA or ECogra, I think, ultimately, believing a game to be fair is an act of faith.

Congratulations if you played 21 days of BJ last week at 6 hands per minute 24 hours a day.

I'm not much of a gambler. I play less all the time. I've just tried to be the best Bo' 'Ho I can be.

As I said, there are many, many people with more experience than I.

 

[Clayman]

We are a bunch of paranoid gamblers with total access to all our gamelogs so you would think that someone would be able to find something.

I really don't see what's so hard of publicly providing, let's say, Playtech logs.

5 or 10 players with a few thousand hands each would be a start. It could be a Player's Database. Let people make of it what they will. I've never requested logs because I've never had a reason to.

When you say "close to $1.5 million I'd say, depending on what you are betting per hand", I want to stress that my results always assume flat-betting, so bet size is assumed to be irrelevant.

 

[bethug]

I agree with you caurso, playtec and boss is rigged. Dont need to show no logs. I will stick to micro, rtg and intercasino for a fair game.

People will keep playing playtec for the bonus, which is sad. between rtg and micro this weekend , i made over 1700 bucks. ( with out a bonus)

 

[DealerBusts]

Congratulations if you played 21 days of BJ last week at 6 hands per minute 24 hours a day.

I think caruso was only talking about RTG blackjack which you said you had played 18,000 hands of. That is perfectly possible to achieve in a week, requiring only 8 hours a day for 7 seven days at 6 hands a minute :notworthy.
hehe....could probably play 12 hands a minute because RTG is so fast, but its a lot of hands of BJ

 

[caruso]

Ya' big bunch o' pussies, I can do 16 hands a minute without breaking into a sweat.

 

[GrandMaster]

I agree with you caurso, playtec and boss is rigged. Dont need to show no logs.

This is about as useful as ecogra's claim of verifying software fairness.

 

[Casinomeister]

So how is it that these softwares are rigged and yet no one has ever been able to prove it?

Because they're not rigged.

We are a bunch of paranoid gamblers with total access to all our gamelogs so you would think that someone would be able to find something. Also you have to think about the large number of people (programmers, execs, mathematicians, casino owners, etc) that would have to be "in" on the fact that the software is cheating. Somebody quits or gets a different job and decides to blow the whistle - then what happens.

Nothing has been said because there isn't anything to say.

I am not buying the arguement that the casino thugs would come and kill him/her. That's a little too Tom Clancy for me. It's just extemely impractical to run such a massive conspiracy for a long period of time. The casinos make money without cheating.

Ditto, they make money anyway - there is no incentive to cheat.

Bryan - Do you know any boss or playtech owners or execs? If so, what is your take on the assertion that they are crooked pond scum?

Yes, I know a number of Playtech operators and execs, and for the most part they seem pretty legit. There are one or two operators that misbehave periodically, but that's about it.

Bethug and Caruso: to make the comments of being crooked pond scum is irresponsible and overemotional. Stating that Boss or/and Playtech cheats without any data to back this up is pure crap.

 

[banno]

Response from Bet Casino on Playtech logs

Received a response on my request for game logs:

Good day ,

I have received a response from the casino supervisor with regards to the request which you sent us on Saturday, to this the response is, that we are not obligated to supply an entire game log history for any reason, if you have a query with a particular game (s), hand (s) we will review the said query and supply the you with details of our findings.

If you are not comfortable with this decision please feel free to contact the supervisor for further discussions.

 

[Clayman]

Ya' big bunch o' pussies, I can do 16 hands a minute without breaking into a sweat.

LMAO!

No "sick addict" you. LOL

 

[Clayman]

...we are not obligated to supply an entire game log history for any reason, if you have a query with a particular game (s), hand (s) we will review the said query and supply the you with details of our findings.

You bet your ass I'm not comfortable with that decision.

What does ECogra say about a player having no right to his game history?

Maybe, after all, no one can prove anything because no one can get a complete log.

Too bad one can't get one's own logs right from the casino, like you can with Inter and, I think, MG. Guess they have nothing to fear.

 

[banno]

Reponse on request for game logs

I think once the first week in June comes and my account is credited with the 10% back on net losses that Betcasino provides, I will blow it and wash my hands with these folks. My suspicions about the fairness of their games and their response to my request warrant an e-mail expressing my displeasure along with a request to close the account. Unless there is something else I can do. Comments or suggestions are welcome.

 

[bethug]

casinomeister , do you play black jack on land? do you play black jack online everyday?

I can say this rtg, micro, intercasino casinos, play way different than boss and playtec casinos

everytime i play playtec, i get 13 to 15 losing hands, every time. and i am not the only one. I can see once and a while, but every dam time. something wrong. There video was said to a little shacky and any real black jack player dont like playtec black jack.

Casinomeister and a few other webmasters, ask the casino to let some run a indepent test, until then playtec and boss are black is fixed in my eyes and others.

If i can win most of the time at the rtg , micro and intercasino and cant win over 100 bucks at playtec , something is wrong. Wake up, we need some one to really test the fairest of the game.

 

[caruso]

Bryan - since the time you complained about my stating opinions as "fact", you'll notice all my subsequent comments on this matter are INVARIABLY prefaced with an "IMO" statement. There is nothing irresponsible or emotional about stating one's opinion.

It's my opinion that MG, Crypto and RTG do not currently cheat.

It's my opinion that Playtech and Boss cheat.

People are free to ignore my opinion for the baseless drivel it is and go on patronizing software that I believe cheats. I stand by my opinion.

...we are not obligated to supply an entire game log history for any reason, if you have a query with a particular game (s), hand (s) we will review the said query and supply the you with details of our findings.

That is quite hilarious. Ain't got nothing to hide, these boys.

 

[angahar]

Suggestion for Banno

I suggest giving one more try on the logs. It is unacceptable for a casino not to give you your game logs when requested. I have never been denied my logs but then again I have always asked for single sessions or at most two sessions. I don't know anything about their side of the software but it might be a huge pain in the butt to pull the logs on all the different dates and compile them into one document to send to you. Try sending them an email along the lines of this:

"I understand that my request for all my logs is unusual, however I ask you to please reconsider. There is always debate online as to whether blackjack software is producing a fair result. This debate has made me uneasy about investing my entertainment dollars on a regular basis with any online casino.
I simply want to review my playing logs to confirm that they are in line with reasonable results. This will give me the confidence to continue playing online. I'm sure you agree that allowing player's access to their logs is an important part of the casino/player relationship.
regards,"

If the casino still denies this request then they should be considered for the rogue list. Denying gamelogs to me dissolves any trust that may have existed between player and casino.

 

[hhcfreebie]

I think once the first week in June comes and my account is credited with the 10% back on net losses that Betcasino provides, I will blow it and wash my hands with these folks. My suspicions about the fairness of their games and their response to my request warrant an e-mail expressing my displeasure along with a request to close the account. Unless there is something else I can do. Comments or suggestions are welcome.

Did you loose your mind?
You have lost so much money with them and you don't even think they are dealing a fair game, why do you still want to play?
I'd suggest you to stop gambling, at least for awhile. Take the 10% cash back and do something else.

I suggest giving one more try on the logs. It is unacceptable for a casino not to give you your game logs when requested. I have never been denied my logs but then again I have always asked for single sessions or at most two sessions. I don't know anything about their side of the software but it might be a huge pain in the butt to pull the logs on all the different dates and compile them into one document to send to you. Try sending them an email along the lines of this:

"I understand that my request for all my logs is unusual, however I ask you to please reconsider. There is always debate online as to whether blackjack software is producing a fair result. This debate has made me uneasy about investing my entertainment dollars on a regular basis with any online casino.
I simply want to review my playing logs to confirm that they are in line with reasonable results. This will give me the confidence to continue playing online. I'm sure you agree that allowing player's access to their logs is an important part of the casino/player relationship.
regards,"

If the casino still denies this request then they should be considered for the rogue list. Denying gamelogs to me dissolves any trust that may have existed between player and casino.

Now that's a really great suggestion. I always prefer the "soft" approach and more often than not I'll get what I want without hurting anyone's feeling.

 

[banno]

Response to Angahar

Angahar, thanks for your earlier response. No problems here.

And I like the sounds of your sample e-mail. I think that's what I'll do.

Thanks.

 

[jpm]

It's my opinion that MG, Crypto and RTG do not currently cheat.

It's my opinion that Playtech and Boss cheat.

Caruso,

Do you mean just on BJ or on all games?

 

[banno]

Response to HHCFREEBIE

Did you loose your mind?
You have lost so much money with them and you don't even think they are dealing a fair game, why do you still want to play?
I'd suggest you to stop gambling, at least for awhile. Take the 10% cash back and do something else.

HHC, I guess I should have clarified the 10% cash back. It's actually a wagering bonus...10% back on net losses from the previous month's losses and wagering requirements apply, so I wouldn't be able to withdraw it. That's why I said I was going to blow it because I know damn well I'm not going to win anything with it. LOL.

I have been doing just fine on Omni since late last week. Deposited $50 and my balance is currently at $320. Just needed to get off the Playtec.

Thanks for your response.

 

[hhcfreebie]

HHC, I guess I should have clarified the 10% cash back. It's actually a wagering bonus...10% back on net losses from the previous month's losses and wagering requirements apply, so I wouldn't be able to withdraw it. That's why I said I was going to blow it because I know damn well I'm not going to win anything with it. LOL.

I have been doing just fine on Omni since late last week. Deposited $50 and my balance is currently at $320. Just needed to get off the Playtec.

Thanks for your response.

I am sorry I jumped to the conclusion too soon.
If you have to play, why not play other games?
Their 4 line Jack or better video poker offer better odds than black jack. Since their "doubling" feature also count as wager requirement, this game is way better than BJ.
If you normally play $4 per hand in BJ, you can play 10 cents 4 line JoB for a total of 0.1x5x4=2 dollars bet per hand, doubling up to $4 dollars. This will give you about the same "excitment" or risk you are willing to tolerate, only with much better odds.

 

[GrandMaster]

everytime i play playtec, i get 13 to 15 losing hands, every time.

This is exactly the sort of thing that would show up in the logs, so why are you saying "Dont need to show no logs."