one doubt haunts me .. if the casino can choose the maximum bet you can do with some slot (for example my max bet for immortal romance is 3 euro but i see in the winner screenshoot a player of the same casino can bet 30 euro a spin !) maybe the casino can set the rtp or payout for some country or player and if possible i don't think it's very fair.. maybe a microgaming casino rep can answer my doubt.. what's microgaming allow the casino to do with his software ?
microgaming software
- Thread starter dillos
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I think every casino can choose their game's limits.
In roulette is the same, some casinos has good limits, others with small limits.
Using your topic, I have a doubt, I dont know microgaming, I love T-rex Slot from RTG, is there any videoslot like that? Wilds double the winnings, and in free spins, wilds copy others items to became "wilds" too.
Sorry for my english.
In roulette is the same, some casinos has good limits, others with small limits.
Using your topic, I have a doubt, I dont know microgaming, I love T-rex Slot from RTG, is there any videoslot like that? Wilds double the winnings, and in free spins, wilds copy others items to became "wilds" too.
Sorry for my english.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
Changing the max bet is totally unrelated to changing RTP.
It would be pointless and very difficult to manage multiple RTPs for different countries and players, and the fact is they don't NEED to.
If you really think they do this, I would recommend you cease playing immediately, unless you're happy to be outright ripped off by what you believe is rigged software.
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My max bet on IR, and the most common one I believe is 6.00 credits (30 coins @ 0.02c x10) and I haven't seen any lower or higher bet settings on any casino I play at. Since I don't know for sure I won't say that different bet settings are impossible.
Anyway I am pretty sure that the trtp is same for each individual player on that same slot at that same casino regardless of player's country, bet level or any other factor.
I also think that Microgaming slots aren't as configurable as, for example Playtech slots and I certainly don't believe that casinos are able to set a different rtp for individual players.
Anyway I am pretty sure that the trtp is same for each individual player on that same slot at that same casino regardless of player's country, bet level or any other factor.
I also think that Microgaming slots aren't as configurable as, for example Playtech slots and I certainly don't believe that casinos are able to set a different rtp for individual players.
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RTP is always going to be questioned by players. The fact is that regulation is much more strict these days. RTP's cannot be simply changed on the fly, they're hard coded into the design of a game. Wizardofodds guy charges a fortune to build these math models for operators, it cannot simply be changed at the flick of a switch.
Yes they can build variations of the same game with different models, but that's about as much control as they have. Just stick to reputable operators licensed in a decent jurisdiction and you need never question the RTP of a game.
Yes they can build variations of the same game with different models, but that's about as much control as they have. Just stick to reputable operators licensed in a decent jurisdiction and you need never question the RTP of a game.
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Max Bet Settings are determined by the Casino themselves. It has nothing to do with RTP as some posters pointed out 
Some Casino's opt to limit their losses and that's why they offer lower bet Levels. I play Mostly at 32Red and the standard max bet on Immortal Romance is $6.
orlandacasino - There are plenty GOOD games on other softwares like Microgaming and NetEnt. I suggest you check it out. RTG software is OK... the others are light years ahead of them
Nate
Some Casino's opt to limit their losses and that's why they offer lower bet Levels. I play Mostly at 32Red and the standard max bet on Immortal Romance is $6.
orlandacasino - There are plenty GOOD games on other softwares like Microgaming and NetEnt. I suggest you check it out. RTG software is OK... the others are light years ahead of them
Nate
JuicyFruit
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Isn't this what the OP is really questioning, and if this can be done on an apparently individual basis, it does indeed raise a few questions.
Could the OP link us to the screenshot that shows the 30euro bet?
ok guys i know there is loyality vip ecc and is right my only concern is that microgaming and the software allow the same casino to have players of series a and players of series b ... if the software allow this freedom of parameters for a single player of the casino maybe can allow something else and i don't see any reply of microgaming casino owner.. i play other software casino and you are a vip or not the bet size is the same for all i think the casino can't mess with this.. i don't want to be polemic but this thing make me think bad sometimes.. i like microgaming and i don't think it's rigged but a like also fair and the same odds for all
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Trust me, they don't have the ability to change RTP.
thank you .. you are the only one that understand what's i mean with my question... and the link is https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/thank-you-casino-lavida.55379/
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MG casinos can change the max. bet for an individual account on request, thats a fact as long as I can remember.
Some people have more cash to spend than others, and cant get thrilled with 6.- per spin.
I got a mail once from Jackpot City, that in case I wanted I could raise my max. bet on games like Jolly Jester, Dragons Loot and Little Chief Big Cash to 250.- per spin.
(You have to bet big to win big.. yes, sure..)
Told them I was happy playing 0.25/0,50 per spin.
This has nothing to do with the RTP of a game.
A rep. from Microgaming once told Brian that the RTP of MG games is set in stone as soon as the games are released and cannot, in no way be altered by anyone, ever.
I believe thats true.
Some people have more cash to spend than others, and cant get thrilled with 6.- per spin.
I got a mail once from Jackpot City, that in case I wanted I could raise my max. bet on games like Jolly Jester, Dragons Loot and Little Chief Big Cash to 250.- per spin.
(You have to bet big to win big.. yes, sure..)
Told them I was happy playing 0.25/0,50 per spin.
This has nothing to do with the RTP of a game.
A rep. from Microgaming once told Brian that the RTP of MG games is set in stone as soon as the games are released and cannot, in no way be altered by anyone, ever.
I believe thats true.
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
MG casinos can change the max. bet for an individual account on request, thats a fact as long as I can remember.
Some people have more cash to spend than others, and cant get thrilled with 6.- per spin.
I got a mail once from Jackpot City, that in case I wanted I could raise my max. bet on games like Jolly Jester, Dragons Loot and Little Chief Big Cash to 250.- per spin.
(You have to bet big to win big.. yes, sure..)
Told them I was happy playing 0.25/0,50 per spin.
This has nothing to do with the RTP of a game.
A rep. from Microgaming once told Brian that the RTP of MG games is set in stone as soon as the games are released and cannot, in no way be altered by anyone, ever.
I believe thats true.
Right, but stake CAN make a difference. Say you have played thousands of spins on IR at 30p and have an RTP thus far of 90% as opposed to the set of say 95.2%. Raise your stake to say £15 per spin which is 50x more. Watch the slot adjust quickly to get nearer your 95% RTP which would have taken much longer staying at 30p a spin.
In other words the variance setting will come into play. Say the IR slot is programmed to be of +/- max 10% of RTP over X amount of spins (this is built in to the slots' algorithms for variance purposes - the higher the amount of RNG picks the RTP is sourced from the higher the variance) then a rapid RTP adjustment is inevitable by significantly raising (or dropping) your bet.
This does NOT mean the RTP is not set in stone; it is as you say.
If you ALWAYS stuck to the same stake from start you would not notice this effect. I have seen it time and time again. Slowly losing at say 60p on TSII, bad run then hit the max bet and things 'start to happen'. How quick it starts to happen depends on the variance of the particular game.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
The TRTP is set/achieved by a combination of the reels, stops, and paytable. Variance has nothing to do with the RNG, and neither does the TRTP, except for the size and content of the "pool" from which it randomly "chooses".
The variance of the GAME is unaffected by your bet. The variance of your BANKROLL is affected by your bet I.e. your balance/bankroll will swing far more wildly when betting bigger. Its common sense.
If you're saying that the slot "adjusts" in ANY way according to bet, and it seems you are, then you're accusing the software of cheating or being deliberately rigged.....in which case I ask why you continue to play? To do so tells me that either you don't care that you're being cheated, or that you don't actually believe your own theories.
The ONLY thing that ADJUSTS according to BET is your bankroll.
If
You've been here for a long time now, I sincerely don't understand why you still believe that slots are compensated. THEY AREN'T BECAUSE THEY DON'T NEED TO. There's no such thing as "adjusting".
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
I'll say it once more .....
MICROGAMING or any other reputable software DOES NOT have INDIVIDUAL RTPs for INDIVIDUAL players or countries. It is RIDICULOUS.
If anyone here believes to the contrary, they need to STOP PLAYING, or at the very least provide some kind of supporting evidence besides "I lost".
Sorry, but IMO this BS has been given enough airtime and been addressed over and over and some people just need to educate themselves properly about how slots work instead of yelling "Its rigged I tells ya!!" every time they lose or have a bad session.
Honestly, there is so much great factual information on this site, but some just ignore it completely, which I will never understand.
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
No, I'm not accusing it of cheating or being rigged. Exactly the opposite if you read what I said again. I am citing a specific effect that you would mathematically expect in a slot program whereby the RTP is calculated over a multitude of spins using a RNG to select values from your pool. Everything is to scale. The RTP stays the same for each multiple of stake as you infer. A million spins at 30p will be the same RTP as a million at £3 a spin. Changing a stake dramatically after a long period on a far lesser or greater one will produce observable differences.
Try it yourself on fee fun credits. Leave a slot playing on auto for several thousand minimum stake spins. If you RTP in the stats is significantly lower than stated for the slot, multiply your spin by say 20x and see what happens.
Try and remember that although an average ballpark figure, RTP is (as you nearly said) actually a monetary value exhibited in your bankroll.
You mention 'reels stops and paytable'. There is no such thing as reels and stops; these exist only in video form to pseudo represent a specific multiple of the stake you have just returned, whether 0x 1.33x or 8x. Paytable is the only thing you see which is real because it represents the multiple of stake you can win.
Nope.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
You hit the nail with one sentence......the TRTP is no different whether you play .30 spins or $3 spins.
Your BANKROLL will be affected......but that's all. The actual MONETARY amount won or lost will be greater or lesser depending on your bet. Again......this is all common sense....the higher you bet the more you can lose (or win).
Your free play example is pointless over several thousand spins. Set it to 1mil+ of .30 and the same number of $3 spins and then we can talk meaningful results. The monetary difference will be huge (about 10x or thereabouts), but the TRTP will be identical.....not the RTP (it could be higher or lower for .30 OR $3)....but the TRTP.
There is NO such thing as ADJUST on a random slot. The ONLY thing that adjusts according to your bet is your bankroll. If you believe otherwise, you believe the software cheats.....there is NO option b).
JuicyFruit
Non-Gambler
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- Homeward Bound
Nifty, I think you have misunderstood my post. I was commenting on the possibility that casinos can have different bet levels for different players, which De Beuker confirmed is possible.
It was nothing to do with individual RTPs at all.
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
OK, I'll rephrase that. The RTP is a monetary amount proportionate to your bets in total staked right? You played a 100 quid, got 90 back and stopped right? So your CURRENT RTP is 90% yes?
So, go to the slots algorithm. The way the pool is calculated and the values within, over x amount of spins it will return it's advertised RTP yes?
Go a little deeper and you will have how the slot is designed to play, and the variance decided by the pool values and the amount of deviation parameters in the algorithm. These parameters ensure you don't have gameplay which means out of say a pool of 1 million outcomes you can pick 200 consecutive spins which pay 0. It just doesn't happen. On any slot. Correct?
Right, now factor in a starting point of minimum stake and several thousand spins, returning say 80% RTP. The longer you go on, eventually you will deviate to nearer the set RTP yes? In monetary value. Raising your stake dramatically will accelerate this movement towards the RTP, the quicker the less amount of picks the slot algorithm is programmed to return the RTP in.
Not 'fixed' or 'compensated' but simply the result of how the slot is designed.
The RTP is how much the slot will give back if you play with the same stake over millions of spins.
If you play 100 spins at $1 each and end up with $90 then yes, your RTP for this session is 90%.
There's no RTP algorithm. I explained that to you before.
Incorrect. You could get 200 dead spins in a row, but the odds are so low that you'll never see it. Just like getting the jackpot 3 times in a row.
The part that you don't get right is the RTP is not an absolute number that can be reached faster or slower if you change your bet size. Think about it this way: when you change your bet size, it's like opening a new session in another casino and you start from scratch. Your previous session will end with your 80% RTP and you start a new one with a new bet size. The RTP itself never changes.
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
Think about what you just said there my friend!
i agree with you i think mr knowall read better the reply and wait before give an answer yes i must learn how the slot work but you must learn how to talk to people because i read your post in the past and i see at the end often judgment (stop playing ecc) i only have a doubt rightful or not i think can express that...
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- May 22, 2012
sorry dunover i agree with your previous reply about bet size and rtp ..i forgot to separate the sentence my bad comment was for the member that say Sorry, but IMO this BS has been given enough airtime and been addressed over and over and some people just need to educate themselves properly about how slots work instead of yelling "Its rigged I tells ya!!" every time they lose or have a bad session and say If you really think they do this, I would recommend you cease playing immediately, unless you're happy to be outright ripped off by what you believe is rigged software.
Do you have any idea of the odds here? Say you have 1 chance out of 2 to get a dead spin on a slot. The chances to get 200 dead spins in a row are:
That's 60 digits. Compare that to your odds of winning the lottery jackpot and it's pretty safe to say that it never happened, will never happen and it has nothing to do with the RTP.
Edit:
Let's have some fun with numbers:
Odds of winning the Euromillions jackpot: 1/116,531,800
Odds of buying 2 Euromillions tickets for 2 consecutive draws and both are jackpot winners: 1/13,579,660,411,240,000
Odds of buying 3 Euromillions tickets for 3 consecutive draws and all 3 are jackpot winners: 1/1,582,462,271,110,537,432,000,000 (that's only 25 digits)
Odds of buying 4 Euromillions tickets for 4 consecutive draws and all 4 are jackpot winners: 1/(58 digits)
Hope you understand better now why you won't see 200 consecutive dead spins.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
You can't beat the facts.
Here's another fact....RNGs have NO memory. Hence, they CANNOT adjust or have intuitive algorithms based on previous bets and sessions. If they did it would be CHEATING and would be picked up by someone with a program to run gazillions of spins straight from the server.
Dunover is confusing TRTP with RTP.
Raising and lowering bets has direct effect on YOUR RTP for that session,regardless of its size and length.
The TRTP is THEORETICAL and is NOT affected by your bet size at ANYtime.
The TRTP of a slot does not change when you change your bet. Your RTP will. In fact, it changes every time you spin.
TRTP = constant
RTP = variable
A game that changes TRTP along with betsize without publishing the fact is CHEATING.
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- Jan 22, 2012
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- Australia
You push the button on $0.30 stake and you get $1.50 , if you pushed the button at the exact same moment to the millisecond on $30.00 spin you would get $150.00 , the exact same result, it doesnt matter that you had 999 spins prior to that at $0.30 or 999 spins at $30.00 or moved up and down between stakes.
OP has brought up some issue of there being server A for some people and server B for other , doesnt happen, everyone gets there result from the same server, the RNG spits out hundreds thousands millions billions of diffrent results each second, 1 result is given to you when you push that button
i also had a look to see if i could bet $30 anywhere on immortal romance, majority of mine were max of $6 but i could spin at Spin Palace for $30 a go if i wanted to. At quite a few i could spin @ $15 a go on Thunderstruck 2
OP has brought up some issue of there being server A for some people and server B for other , doesnt happen, everyone gets there result from the same server, the RNG spits out hundreds thousands millions billions of diffrent results each second, 1 result is given to you when you push that button
i also had a look to see if i could bet $30 anywhere on immortal romance, majority of mine were max of $6 but i could spin at Spin Palace for $30 a go if i wanted to. At quite a few i could spin @ $15 a go on Thunderstruck 2
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- Joined
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- Location
- Scotland
I think a good analogy for Microgaming games would be a vacuum cleaner with a switch that goes between two simple settings 'suck' and 'blow' but which has no off switch.
A vacuum cleaner that simply switches between settings depending on whether there's too much dust in the room or too much dust in the bag.
With no bias whatsoever to any particular souce of dust
But as long as the owner of the vacuum cleaner has an assurance that there will be a specific amount of dust (for example 3 percent of the dust) in the bag by the end of the day, they're going to be happy.
With a dust TRTP of 97 percent
A vacuum cleaner that simply switches between settings depending on whether there's too much dust in the room or too much dust in the bag.
With no bias whatsoever to any particular souce of dust
But as long as the owner of the vacuum cleaner has an assurance that there will be a specific amount of dust (for example 3 percent of the dust) in the bag by the end of the day, they're going to be happy.
With a dust TRTP of 97 percent
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Location
- United Kingdom
I think a good analogy for Microgaming games would be a vacuum cleaner with a switch that goes between two simple settings 'suck' and 'blow' but which has no off switch.
A vacuum cleaner that simply switches between settings depending on whether there's too much dust in the room or too much dust in the bag.
With no bias whatsoever to any particular souce of dust
But as long as the owner of the vacuum cleaner has an assurance that there will be a specific amount of dust (for example 3 percent of the dust) in the bag by the end of the day, they're going to be happy.
With a dust TRTP of 97 percent
If I got 3% of the dust in the bag by the end of the day, I'd take the damn piece of crap back for a refund
I have a Dyson. dust TRTP of virtually 0%
(It doesn't have a bag either).
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2004
- Location
- Europe
Dunover, have a read of this article
The only way to change the RTP between stakes is if the paytable changes or if more symbols are added or removed, if all remains the same then the RTP remains the same
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, it explains how the RTP is calculated. it is all done by the paytable and the symbols on the reels.The only way to change the RTP between stakes is if the paytable changes or if more symbols are added or removed, if all remains the same then the RTP remains the same
OP has brought up some issue of there being server A for some people and server B for other , doesnt happen, everyone gets there result from the same server, the RNG spits out hundreds thousands millions billions of diffrent results each second, 1 result is given to you when you push that button
sorry is not that..my complain is how microgaming and the program client are "flexible" to set some parameters with each individual account... my doubts remain but i hope the only thing the casino can set is the coin size and max bet...
sorry is not that..my complain is how microgaming and the program client are "flexible" to set some parameters with each individual account... my doubts remain but i hope the only thing the casino can set is the coin size and max bet...
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
Yes, I already addressed that a while back in another thread. His maths is correct for mechanical slots (if you read it this is his basis for his calculations) but is totally unnecessary for programming an online slot. All you need is RNG, amounts pool and reel graphics.
If you have an (old) mechanical slot which genuinely randomly stops 5 reels it cannot possibly tell you a result before the reels have stopped.
It's like comparing chalk and cheese. The principle is the same but the workings are very different.
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
True but it's highly subjective, based on again a conjecturous 'say you had a 1 in 2 chance of a dead spin....'
ON slot like BDBA I'd say you had a 4/5 chance of a dead spin. Still massive odds against though as you state.
Now I have your attention on this, firstly what would you say the odds are of a deadspin on TSII (we may be able to answer this as whatshisname has run millions of spins on it in another thread).
OK, say it's 3 in 4. If I can show you several MG reports of 20-30 consecutive spins with NO win what would you say the odds against say 25 are? 20 or 30?
See what I'm getting at....
PS do you remember recently when the Hungarian or Bulgarian lottery threw out the same 6 numbers in two consecutive draws........lots of digits there too.
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