Blackjack Table Limits - Single Hand vs Full Table?

[herc83]

Fafabet are refusing to pay me out my blackjack winnings that I won a while back because they are saying my £7,950 win exceeds their maximum Blackjack payout of £4k. After initially telling me my £7,950 winnings would actually be £4.5k because of their rules, they then told me it would actually be £450 only. Does that make sense to anyone?

I asked them for an SAR and they've shown my bets in the photo attached. I bet £1k on every hand on a full table at Blackjack. Is that not deemed as £1k single bets x 7 or 1 £7k full wager? The last casino I used would deem them as £1k single bets but I don't know if that's standard practice.

Surely if their limit is £1k at blackjack, why did they have a table that allowed me to bet 7x that if they count the full table as a single bet?

Their T&C;

Maximum Single Bet Payout: The total payout for any single bet shall not exceed £4000, irrespective of the bet amount. For example, whether you place a £100 bet or a £50 bet, the maximum payout you can receive from a single spin or bet is £4000.

These two rules apply simultaneously. For instance, if you place a £1 bet and the game displays a payout of £10,000, the maximum payout you will receive is £1000. These limitations apply regardless of your total winnings or losses for the day and are also applicable across all currency denominations you may select.

Roulette and Blackjack Maximum Payout: For Roulette and Blackjack, the maximum payout for a single bet shall not exceed £4000, or 100 times the original stake, whichever is lower. For example, if you place a £10 bet, the maximum payout would be £1000. If you place a £2000 bet, the maximum payout would be £4000. We do not accept any single bet on Roulette and Blackjack exceeding £1000.

 

[mulven]

How many posts do you have in the pipeline?

 

[herc83]

haha. I recently lost my job / doing my tax return and ended up down rabbit holes of where my money has gone. I seem a bit cursed that when I win I don't win. And when I lose, which is a lot of the time, I always lose.

Not that I'll ever gamble again so I appreciate I'm becoming a bit boring going over various complaints.

 

[mulven]

haha. I recently lost my job / doing my tax return and ended up down rabbit holes of where my money has gone. I seem a bit cursed that when I win I don't win. And when I lose, which is a lot of the time, I always lose.

Not that I'll ever gamble again so I appreciate I'm becoming a bit boring going over various complaints.

Well with this one it's an awful term, I'm guessing the table limits might be related to the live casino provider here. I'm not sure about the reduction on the reduction but the initial reduction seems fine. It's an argument of semantics and in their system the entire game round comes up as a single bet. As I said, awful awful awful term and a horrible website but you played there so accept that term, however the reduction to 450 is weird

EDIT: they also have a 25k win limit per day jesus, did you accrued the whole balance in a short space of time or across multiple days?

 

[herc83]

What's somewhat hilarious is that originally they wanted to pay me £4,500 until I asked them to investigate further and they came up with £450.

This £7,950 was sitting in my available balance for two years (yes, I had stupidly left it dormant and forgot about it). I am curious as to what would have happened if I carried on betting and how they would have manually calculated all this because it wasn't done automatically.

They looked at this only when I attempted withdrawal.

This is what they said;

In this instance, we need to adjust your winnings from to £4,450, voiding the excess £3,500 that breaches the T&C. Kindly confirm this adjustment so that we can proceed with updating your account balance accordingly as after the adjustment the balance will reflect as £4450.

Then;

Regarding your current balance, we would like to address an oversight in our previous email. Upon further review, it was identified that your gameplay on involved a stake of £7,000, which exceeds the maximum bet amount allowed per the platform's Terms and Conditions. As a result, this stake must be voided.

Clause 7.7.1 - Roulette and Blackjack Maximum Payout: Terms & Conditions

• For Roulette and Blackjack, the maximum payout for a single bet shall not exceed £4,000 or 100 times the original stake, whichever is lower.
• For example:
  • A £10 stake would have a maximum payout of £1,000.
  • A £2,000 stake would have a maximum payout of £4,000.
• Stakes exceeding £1,000 are not accepted for Roulette and Blackjack.

Consequently, the winnings associated with this voided stake will also be invalidated. After this adjustment, your new account balance will be £450.

 

[mulven]

Ah I didn't notice they saif they don't accept bets over 1000. So they are having their cake and eating it too by treating the 7000 as a single bet but treating them as separate bets when allowing them. Although it looks like upon further investigation they voided it because it broke that rule (they also have a term about betting more than 25% deposited amount). If they voided it what's the 450 for and where did that come from anyways? Winnings should be 7500 profit from the screenshot

You are mentioning 7950 but I see 7000 bet and 14500 won from that round, and the other column appears to show a balance or maybe lifetime position of multiple tens of thousands.

Were you able to withdraw the rest of it and only the winnings were disputed, why are the winnings not adding up with the sar info?

 

[herc83]

So in Nov 22, I deposited £40k. Won £7,950 with these few bets. Attempted to withdraw the full amount. They sent me an email a few days later asking for proof of funds (but didn't say my withdrawal was being delayed or on hold, so I was just lazy in not replying not realising I needed to). They sent a follow-up email asking for proof of funds a few days later which I also did not reply to. Full photo of my betting history with them now attached.

To my embarrassment I never noticed this withdrawal never hit my bank account. This was during the time the gambling addiction really put me in a messed up place and it was impossible to keep track on incomings/outgoings as I was gambling like a mad man.

13 months later in Dec 23, I tried to login and was told I was suspended by the auto message. I emailed why and they said I never replied to their proof of funds email. I then sent them all the info they needed and passed that but never bothered gambling (I can't be certain I even logged in) as a short while later I registered with gamstop. Not once did they mention about my withdrawals being on hold for over a year.

Fast forward to this month and I'm doing my tax return / investigating where I've been an idiot with casinos and I ask Fafabet for a SAR. They send me a PDF which has weird coding on all my betting activity which basically is unreadable (just like error messages in each column) and don't tell me about my on hold withdrawals. I then ask them to double check what my balance is.

That's when they tell me it's £7,950 but will actually come out as £4,500. They tell me my original deposit was £4,000. I tell them to investigate further because my bank statement says I deposited £40k. That's when they then send me the above.

I asked them what happened to the £40k? They told me that they couldn't process it until they verified my proof of funds, which they said I finally passed in Dec 23. They CLAIM they tried to pay the £40k back then to my debit card but it was "declined due to a 700 banking error'. Not once did they tell me about any of this. Surely they should have????

They have thankfully now paid me the £40k via bank transfer (hilariously not actually asking me to prove I own the account I asked them to send the funds to, even though it differs from the one I originally deposited with. I think they were spooked to pay me quickly).

No apologies about any of this by the way.

So now I've complained about it all and I'm asking for the £7,950 to be paid to me. I mean I think I won that fair and square but considering how shit they've handled all this, it feels like something they should just pay out out of embarrassment.

 

[mulven]

Okay so they've voided the entire bet because you aren't allowed to bet more than 1k in a single bet. They initially mistakenly only applied the 4k limit when their terms entitled them to void it entirely.

You then made bets that were in line with their terms spending 600 and winning 1050.

This resulted in a position of +450 after voiding the term violating bet.

It's rare to see terms this bad on casinos, let alone ones licences in the UK. These kind of terms can be okay when it's in bonus rules but on all cash bets? Wtf!

Goes back to them treating the 7 individual bets as a single game round bet and applying their terms on that. I'm not sure how much leeway they have on that and maybe you could have had a claim but it's been too long to try now. I personally think the bets should be grouped together as it's a game round, it's just the rest of their terms that make that an issue.

Once again I think you are out of luck due to the terms but they are really bad terms. The terms have been applied properly but the terms are disgusting.

 

[herc83]

What I can't understand is why they allow someone to bet higher than £1k on blackjack if it breaks their terms. Why is it not hardcoded like you'd expect it to be if it was a max.

It's why I'm wondering if I technically bypassed it because I bet £1k across a table full of 7. Is there any way in the world that could be deemed as 7 x £1k single bets?

But what really concerns me is how manual this system is. What if I had continued playing. How would they be able to distinguish what was allowable and what wasn't? It feels like a minefield if I had hours and hours worth of play at this kind of volume.

It's taken them two years to tell me my winnings weren't actually my winnings. My available balance not actually being my available balance. And telling me I'm due £4,500 before changing their mind. I can't help but feel like it stinks of them making it up as they go along.

 

[mulven]

It's taken them two years to tell me my winnings weren't actually my winnings. My available balance not actually being my available balance. And telling me I'm due £4,500 before changing their mind. I can't help but feel like it stinks of them making it up as they go along.

Honestly it sounds like they just made a mistake, they should have voided the game round but interpreted their own terms incorrectly and then after looking at it again realised the proper application of all the pertinent terms.

Some places software limit bets, it's a minority but some do. A respectable casino wouldn't have that rule but if they did they'd remove tables that had higher limits than that or for non live casino, if they can modify the limits they would. They don't have software limits. They aren't required to but it is nice to see when places do it.

Their terms treat game rounds as the bet, it could be written a bit clearer regarding that but I guess what you did was a bit of an edge case so they didn't write them with that in mind. I personally read stake as the entire bet not just the individual hands so I believe they've just acted correctly on their terms but I don't think a ukgc casino should be allowed to have so many win limiting terms as it's very unfair. 1000x slot spin max, 100x/4000 table game max, 25,000 daily max (not sure if net or gross). I guess it's up to the player to avoid playing there if the terms are that bad but I've looked at thousands of casinos and this is definitely in the top 10 for worst win limiting terms in cash funds