Question Meister ratings skewed in favour of 32Red?

[Johnnygotthebon]

Nah....

I am not being hostile. Just telling you the facts, just get's tiring seeing all your posts after posts that's all. But will leave it to you mate good luck

No worries. Thread over for me.

 

[PNEFOREVER2]

I may have a big trolling mouth but I don't lie!

50k lost 1k at a time.

Bets were 5-10 a spin.

I assume you mean $5-$10 a spin?

So at $5 a spin that's what, 200 spins with a starting balance of $1000. That's just bad luck, a bad session (well, several bad sessions), not a reflection of how good or bad a casino is, they have no control over the games.

Personally, even with a starting balance of $1000, I wouldn't bet above $3 although that's probably the low roller in me speaking.

 

[mimi26]

Last Sunday I got paid by 32Red.

One thing I will say negative about 32Red is that their chat representatives are fake. Fake smiles etc.
But then again, they care enough to fake it so they must to some degree care...

Totally disagree with you, they are not fake, they are very highly trained in CS, this it what makes 32red stand out, you never get a chat rep that just cant be assed dealing with your issue, nothing is too much trouble for them, if they dont know the answer they will find it for you, they are just nice people.

 

[Casinomeister]

Back to the original comment - no, the ratings are not skewered in favor of 32 Red. Here is the raw data that is computed:

Software:
Microgaming - highest

Jurisdiction:
Gibraltar - medium

Reverse Time
24 hours - medium

Cash Out Time
24 hours - medium

Publicly traded - y
Manual Flush - y
Weekend Cashouts - n
Casinomeister Blog - n

Established 2002 (points are automatically generated for this)
Accredited since Oct 2002 (ditto)

And they have a total 0.7 Meister points (out of 1.0), this is from forum participation and their awards.
https://www.casinomeister.com/rating-system-explanation/

Bottom line is that it's fair and not skewered at all.

 

[Valhalla]

Back to the original comment - no, the ratings are not skewered in favor of 32 Red. Here is the raw data that is computed:

.............

Bottom line is that it's fair and not skewered at all.

(Cut the quote to save a huge post)

Thanks for answering Meister.
I will repeat (I feel the need to) that I really hope this wasn't seen as an attack on 32Red or yourself, I was just curious that's all. A casino that apparently regressed in what it offered, still improved in your ratings. I respect what you say of course, but I like asking questions

Thanks again.

Valhalla.

 

[dunover]

My first thread. I hope it's not taken the wrong way. I verified my account to bring this up because it kinda bugs me.

Firstly, I just want to make clear that I don't have an axe to grind, I'm not a troll or a shill (I actually had to look that up) or anything like that.
Personally, I like (or at least trust) 32Red. Although I don't play there any more since they changed their payment system.

It's just that I noticed some time ago (when 32Red changed their payment system to no longer pay on weekends, bank holidays etc), that their Casinomeister rating dropped to 9.0 which moved them below a couple of Casinos overall. I thought this was fair enough seeing as Payment speed/efficiency is a big part of what makes a casino good.
But then I checked again recently, only to find that 32Red are again rated 9.4, just above the outstanding Guts (9.3), Grosvenor (9.3), Boyle Casino (9.1) and maybe a couple of others that are in the 9's.

My question is - why? What is it 32Red have that set them above the rest? Slow payments and Limited games (only Microgaming) should seriously lower their overall score. I can name countless online Casinos who will have money in my bank account before 32Red have even processed the payment. I've even withdrew on a Saturday and had the money in my bank account on Bank Holiday Monday (no idea how). And this, payment speed, is surely the number one factor in determining how good a casino is.
Not to mention regular bonuses with fair wagering requirements, endless free spins with no wagering on the winnings, excellent customer service, various gaming platforms and so on and so forth.

I will repeat - this is not an attack on 32Red in anyway, it's more a case of - I don't think the ratings here at Casinomeister are very fair on the rest who are breaking their balls to be as good as they are, and are actually streets ahead of 32Red in many ways, yet they remain 2nd best for some inexplicable reason.

LOL....you must've been reading my recent posts on this subject. I can understand why they have done so well in the past and they are undoubtedly the best in their genre and probably always will be. I too feel that there's too much emphasis on 'inertia' i.e. previous performance and from the explanation from Bryan regarding the scoring system, it's not unlikely that they will retain their mantle even allowing for their reductions in quality of service recently. This aside, there is scope for the newcomers to supersede 32red and quite quickly. If you analyse the scoring system then it's not inconceivable that they will be levelled this year and fall behind next.
Unlike some of the new ultra-reliable quick-paying multi-platform sites, they are up at their glass ceiling of attainment so I do feel we'll see the changing face of online gaming reflected in the scores soon, and even in the 'Casino of the Year' category.
Nothing wrong with a bit of stiff competition, it keeps you sharp - even 32red!

 

[Casinomeister]

(Cut the quote to save a huge post)

Thanks for answering Meister.
I will repeat (I feel the need to) that I really hope this wasn't seen as an attack on 32Red or yourself, I was just curious that's all. A casino that apparently regressed in what it offered, still improved in your ratings. I respect what you say of course, but I like asking questions

Thanks again.

Valhalla.

No worries. I don't mind a bit when people question whatever is going on. It gives me the chance to make sure that everything is squared away, or at least it gives me a chance to review something that may be amiss. I think that your observation is a good one, and it shows that there is value in a casino that has over a decade of longevity - this is one thing that 32Red has. You can count on them doing the right thing.

 

[Valhalla]

Why can't I thank people? I see I've been thanked a lot and I want to thank people for taking the time to add their thoughts to this thread, but there doesn't seem to be a button or option.

 

[Casinomeister]

The thanking ability happens when you reach at least 10 posts. Make another and you should see the button appear.

 

[Valhalla]

I will. And then I'll thank you for that advice too

 

[K2C]

My question is - why? What is it 32Red have that set them above the rest?

Keep in mind that there is no casino which is above the rest on all attributes (features). Some casinos offer awesome bonuses yet you will have hard time cashing those out. Others offer fast payout but their support leaves much to be desired. Yet other casinos with excellent support have a very limited selection of games.

A sound rating system should account for those multiple parameters and essentially calculate the average. Bryan has already told you how he calculates this average for the Casinomeister Rating. Here is my 2 cents on the important features for this casino.

General. Publicly traded (very few can boast it). Licensed in Gibraltar (not bad), established in 2002. Also has a poker room, a sportsbook, a bingo room (not only convenient but also indicates a solid operation). Web site is offered in 9 languages (again, an indication of them taking it seriously to make it player-friendly).

Software/Games. Not a multi-platform. Yet, Microgaming is arguably the best software provider out there. Hundreds of games both in the Download module and instant play, mobile version available. Live dealer games available. Games with 7 digit jackpots are there.

Bonus Size/ Percent. There are casinos with bigger bonuses. Yet, what 32red offers is not bad at all.

Bonus Terms. They have a 6.25 bet size limit for the welcome bonus, which is not good. Otherwise, very clear terms, winnings won't be voided for doubling on slots, or for playing a wrong game, or for making a "low risk bet". No universal gotcha "bonus abuser" clause.

Payouts. All major ewallets available, yet missing some local popular ones. 24-hour payouts and they do pay in 24 hours not just say it. No payout limits (not too many casinos can boast it, some have very low limits). Very reasonable document verification requirements.

Support. 24/7 Chat, email, phone (you may be surprised to know how many casino lack one of the three). Friendly and professional.

Complaint Options / 3rd party arbitration. There are casinos which have none of such, others offer very limited options. With 32red, should a misunderstanding occur you can go to Ecogra, to Gibraltar Gambling, to this forum, and at least 3 other portals I am aware of where they have a rep. Your complaint will be taken seriously and addressed quickly.

Web reputation. Like I said - they have reps on multiple portals, and all of these portals rate the casino highly. I can't think of any single site which has 32red in the black list

Player reputation. I have read dozens of player stories, and have not found a single one (!) with a grounded complaint which was not resolved. Vast majority of the stories are very positive.

Now you average it all, and score it against other casinos to obtain your own rating

 

[onkel]

Keep in mind that there is no casino which is above the rest on all attributes (features). Some casinos offer awesome bonuses yet you will have hard time cashing those out. Others offer fast payout but their support leaves much to be desired. Yet other casinos with excellent support have a very limited selection of games.

A sound rating system should account for those multiple parameters and essentially calculate the average. Bryan has already told you how he calculates this average for the Casinomeister Rating. Here is my 2 cents on the important features for this casino.

General. Publicly traded (very few can boast it). Licensed in Gibraltar (not bad), established in 2002. Also has a poker room, a sportsbook, a bingo room (not only convenient but also indicates a solid operation). Web site is offered in 9 languages (again, an indication of them taking it seriously to make it player-friendly).

Software/Games. Not a multi-platform. Yet, Microgaming is arguably the best software provider out there. Hundreds of games both in the Download module and instant play, mobile version available. Live dealer games available. Games with 7 digit jackpots are there.

Bonus Size/ Percent. There are casinos with bigger bonuses. Yet, what 32red offers is not bad at all.

Bonus Terms. They have a 6.25 bet size limit for the welcome bonus, which is not good. Otherwise, very clear terms, winnings won't be voided for doubling on slots, or for playing a wrong game, or for making a "low risk bet". No universal gotcha "bonus abuser" clause.

Payouts. All major ewallets available, yet missing some local popular ones. 24-hour payouts and they do pay in 24 hours not just say it. No payout limits (not too many casinos can boast it, some have very low limits). Very reasonable document verification requirements.

Support. 24/7 Chat, email, phone (you may be surprised to know how many casino lack one of the three). Friendly and professional.

Complaint Options / 3rd party arbitration. There are casinos which have none of such, others offer very limited options. With 32red, should a misunderstanding occur you can go to Ecogra, to Gibraltar Gambling, to this forum, and at least 3 other portals I am aware of where they have a rep. Your complaint will be taken seriously and addressed quickly.

Web reputation. Like I said - they have reps on multiple portals, and all of these portals rate the casino highly. I can't think of any single site which has 32red in the black list

Player reputation. I have read dozens of player stories, and have not found a single one (!) with a grounded complaint which was not resolved. Vast majority of the stories are very positive.

Now you average it all, and score it against other casinos to obtain your own rating

Is the reason Betsson has such a low rating because they're licensed in Malta? Otherwise it seems to me that they beat 32red in almost all things you list?

 

[Tirilej]

Is the reason Betsson has such a low rating because they're licensed in Malta? Otherwise it seems to me that they beat 32red in almost all things you list?

Maybe you should compare with what Bryan said instead of K2C's 2 cents.

What I see then it's also time accredited, awards and participation that are missing.
Or other things but I don't play at Betsson so I don't know, just thought I add my 1 cent before I went broke

 

[onkel]

Yeah, I don't know. It just seems to me that some of the scores are outdated/subjective. I don't see how Videoslots can be that much better than Betsson / Unibet for example. Perhaps it comes down to the amount of player disputes (although the mentioned companies with a £200m+ market cap are likely to have a few) and how active the rep is in the forums.

 

[K2C]

Is the reason Betsson has such a low rating because they're licensed in Malta? Otherwise it seems to me that they beat 32red in almost all things you list?

These are the things I list, so if you are asking about why Casinomeister's rating is lower you should look at the things he lists:

https://www.casinomeister.com/rating-system-explanation/

Malta is rated the same way as Gibraltar by Casinomeister, so there must be other factors. One I can easily see is the Software (Betsson does not have any games by Microgaming which is rated highest by Casinomeister)

 

[onkel]

These are the things I list, so if you are asking about why Casinomeister's rating is lower you should look at the things he lists:

https://www.casinomeister.com/rating-system-explanation/

Malta is rated the same way as Gibraltar by Casinomeister, so there must be other factors. One I can easily see is the Software (Betsson does not have any games by Microgaming which is rated highest by Casinomeister)

That's what I meant with outdated in my previous post. Betsson has Microgaming as well as a lot of other providers. To my knowledge they also have a mobile site.

 

[K2C]

That's what I meant with outdated in my previous post. Betsson has Microgaming as well as a lot of other providers. To my knowledge they also have a mobile site.

According to this review they don't have any Link Outdated / Removed
According to my records they have 5 microgaming slots (which is not much at all)

I am sure both of the counts may be outdated, things change fast in the online casino world. But clearly there are WAY more Microgaming games in 32red than in Betsson

 

[onkel]

These are the things I list, so if you are asking about why Casinomeister's rating is lower you should look at the things he lists:

https://www.casinomeister.com/rating-system-explanation/

Malta is rated the same way as Gibraltar by Casinomeister, so there must be other factors. One I can easily see is the Software (Betsson does not have any games by Microgaming which is rated highest by Casinomeister)

Ah I thought Betsson had made considerably more available. However, that doesn't explain why Betsafe (another brand of Betsson's) have an even lower rating, despite having Microgaming listed in the ratings

 

[PCJACKPOT2008]

According to this review they don't have any Link Outdated / Removed
According to my records they have 5 microgaming slots (which is not much at all)

I am sure both of the counts may be outdated, things change fast in the online casino world. But clearly there are WAY more Microgaming games in 32red than in Betsson

Betsson have more MG slots in the Pokerclient.

 

[Tirilej]

If you find that things have changed with casinos that you wished had better rating, or lower, then let Bryan know.

As someone said, things are changing very fast and I don't think he can check all by himself.

There is this place here for those things in case you didn't know.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/community/accredited-casinos-updates/

 

[brianmon]

While everyone's defending 32Red, all these reasons would have already been taken into account before the recent payments changes, when they had a rating of 9.4.

So the OP's question still remains unanswered - 32Red dropped from 9.4 to 9.0 when they recently changed their payout procedures, and rightly so.
But the deducted points have been now added back on, for no apparent reason.

 

[Casinomeister]

While everyone's defending 32Red, all these reasons would have already been taken into account before the recent payments changes, when they had a rating of 9.4.

So the OP's question still remains unanswered - 32Red dropped from 9.4 to 9.0 when they recently changed their payout procedures, and rightly so.
But the deducted points have been now added back on, for no apparent reason.

32Red did not lose .4 points from removing weekend payouts. They only lost .2 points. This was probably around the same time that Gibraltar's rating was decreased (they went from High to Medium) which probably affected .2 more points.

This was over a year and a half ago. Casino ratings increase automatically as the casino ages - the longer a casino has been established, the points increase slowly. Same with the accredited status.

I don't add these points willy nilly. It's a program that runs continuously in the background. (Simmo wrote it - I implemented some of the values ) I enter the data via a spreadsheet, and the only data that is subjective are meister points (as explained before). If the casino rep is participating freely throughout the forum, winning awards, making themselves available to meet-up and chat about player issues and such, then I add meister points. It's hard to say what 32Red's Meister points were back in 2012, but I'm guessing they were about the same as they are now (.7).

As for Betsson, here is how their points add up:

Total 8.1

Software:
Netent - high

Jurisdiction:
Malta - medium

Reverse Time
24 hours - medium

Cash Out Time
24 hours - medium

Publicly traded - y
Manual Flush - n (that's weighed at .3 points - so that can make a significant difference)
Weekend Cashouts - y
Casinomeister Blog - n

Established 2002 (points are automatically generated for this)
Accredited since Dec 2012 (more than a decade after 32Red)

And they have a total 0.0 Meister points. So this is an area that they can definitely improve on. Also, if they allow players to flush their winnings and shorten the reverse time, then there could be a significant change in their score.

 

[rainmaker]

As for Betsson, here is how their points add up:

Total 8.1

Software:
Netent - high

Jurisdiction:
Malta - medium

Reverse Time
24 hours - medium

Cash Out Time
24 hours - medium

Publicly traded - y
Manual Flush - n (that's weighed at .3 points - so that can make a significant difference)
Weekend Cashouts - y
Casinomeister Blog - n

Established 2002 (points are automatically generated for this)
Accredited since Dec 2012 (more than a decade after 32Red)

And they have a total 0.0 Meister points. So this is an area that they can definitely improve on. Also, if they allow players to flush their winnings and shorten the reverse time, then there could be a significant change in their score.

I do not think that Betsson casinos (Betsson, CasinoEuro and Betsafe) have any obligatory pending time at all (you list 24h reverse time)

They are usually paying out winnings within a few hours (or in some cases instantly) every day, weekend included.

I think it is a bit unfair that fast paying casinos should be punished for not allowing manual flushing as they are paying out almost instantly and flushing is not nescessary.

Betsson brands are definitely rated too low on this forum

 

[Casinomeister]

I do not think that Betsson casinos (Betsson, CasinoEuro and Betsafe) have any obligatory pending time at all (you list 24h reverse time)

They are usually paying out winnings within a few hours (or in some cases instantly) every day, weekend included.

I think it is a bit unfair that fast paying casinos should be punished for not allowing manual flushing as they are paying out almost instantly and flushing is not nescessary.

Betsson brands are definitely rated too low on this forum

Noted.

If there are any discrepancies that you feel I should change/take a look at, please post these in the Accred Casino Updates/discrepancies forum:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/community/accredited-casinos-updates/

I'm slowly getting these accred pages updated.

The bottom line is that I'd like this point system to be the best one out there. As far as I know, it's the only one that takes into account withdrawal limits, payouts, software, licensing jurisdictions, etc. And I rely on you members to help me keep these updated.

 

[Valhalla]

While everyone's defending 32Red, all these reasons would have already been taken into account before the recent payments changes, when they had a rating of 9.4.

So the OP's question still remains unanswered - 32Red dropped from 9.4 to 9.0 when they recently changed their payout procedures, and rightly so.
But the deducted points have been now added back on, for no apparent reason.

Indeed. My memory isn't crystal clear but...
I think 32Red were actually rated 9.5 or even 9.6 at their peak (can't quite remember). I know that when they dropped to 9.0, RedBet were rated higher at 9.4 (maybe more - someone else can confirm the exact figure, I know it was mid-9's), and Guts were only a fairly new casino but might have still been rated in the 9's too.

When I returned recently I noticed that, well, it appeared that the casino ratings had all been realigned in order to move 32Red back to the top by a single .1
It was kind of annoying because there didn't seem to be any valid reason. But it's been explained by 'Meister ad nauseam and I accept his explanation.