Kindred affiliates at it now, adding quotas

[KasinoKing]

I don't want to start sounding preachy (it may already be too late for that ) but all I can really add to this is this: I spoke to a "one-man-band" affiliate today who bothered to picked up the phone to one of the programs who have recently made quota changes, explained his position, had a positive conversation and they agreed to not do it for him and review again in 6 months. So the choice you have: sit back and see what happens or try and make it happen.

Over and out

Yes, that's all fine an dandy for the affiliates who reach an agreement with this mega-turnover monster..
But what about all the little guys who mean diddly-squat to the beast?
Should we just say "I'm alright Jack, sorry you had to take this hit"?
Or should we stand together as one and say "This is NOT acceptable"?

If they want to impose terms from THIS DAY ON - that's fine - we can each decide to continue or not.
But to retroactively apply these changes to players brought in (after much very hard work for many years) on the basis that we would get paid X for the lifetime of the players is just totally out of order.

KK

 

[KasinoKing]

So I was e-mailing my Affiliate Manager about this last week - he said he would phone me today.
He didn't - so I sent a reminder e-mail...
And got this back:
"I am now out of the office until Wednesday 4th April. I'll do my best to get back to you ASAP upon my return"

Probably hiding!

Still - Kindred have made the "Big Time" now...



KK

 

[colinsunderland]

and still waiting for Mark's response

isn't it funny how reps (not just Mark) can respond very quickly on some things, but others they just drop from the face of the earth.

 

[colinsunderland]

Still no response from @Mark_32Red to my simple question or from @Unibet Rep or any other Kindred rep, perhaps Bryan @Casinomeister could give them a nudge please?

 

[colinsunderland]

So over 2 weeks since the thread was started. No response from any rep for Kindred, and nothing from Mark either since his posts over 2 weeks ago.
Is it not time these were rogued?

 

[colinsunderland]

Still no response from any rep or, surprisingly, from Bryan.
Not sure why Kindred can do this and not face any consequences when other casinos have done the same and been rogued for it.

 

[dionysus]

Still no response from any rep or, surprisingly, from Bryan.
Not sure why Kindred can do this and not face any consequences when other casinos have done the same and been rogued for it.

have you tagged Bryan so hes up to date? Lots of threads for him to sift through

 

[colinsunderland]

have you tagged Bryan so hes up to date? Lots of threads for him to sift through

Yes a couple of posts back, and sent him a PM a few days ago, but appreciate he is likely busy.

Just got a PM from Mark saying if he tries to post in the thread he gets

"You have insufficient privileges to reply here".

Maybe thats a user group problem? @Casinomeister ?

He also said

To answer your question, when 32Red is migrated to the Kindred Affiliate Programme, the Kindred T&C will apply.

So another casino stealing from it's affiliates

 

[KasinoKing]

Still no response from any rep or, surprisingly, from Bryan.
Not sure why Kindred can do this and not face any consequences when other casinos have done the same and been rogued for it.

I finally got an e-mail from my AM on Monday, which basically said "as long as you carry on promoting us in the correct way, your old deal wont change"
This was contrary to what his previous e-mails implied.
However, I replied back asking for full confirmation on Tuesday - and as of yet I have not had a reply

I don't know if they should be rogued, but definitely they should lose CM accreditation if they impose their new rules retroactively on ANY affiliates who were promoting them before March (when these changes came in).

KK

 

[colinsunderland]

I finally got an e-mail from my AM on Monday, which basically said "as long as you carry on promoting us in the correct way, your old deal wont change"
This was contrary to what his previous e-mails implied.
However, I replied back asking for full confirmation on Tuesday - and as of yet I have not had a reply

I don't know if they should be rogued, but definitely they should lose CM accreditation if they impose their new rules retroactively on ANY affiliates who were promoting them before March (when these changes came in).

KK

'the correct way' that is open to interpretation . Will they say the correct way is to be in prime position and send 6 customers a month!

 

[colinsunderland]

Still waiting for comments from @Unibet Rep
Your lack of response shows what scammers you are.

 

[Casinomeister]

Still waiting for comments from @Unibet Rep
Your lack of response shows what scammers you are.

No need to get testy - they are far from scamming anyone.

As it was mentioned in the thread, I was unaware that the casino reps were blocked from responding here. School boy error on my part. sorry.

But like Simmo stated - these terms can be negotiated - if you try. Bummer as it seems, the landscape has changed these past few months, and a number of affiliate programs are making knee-jerk reactions until the smoke clears. Implementing quotas is never a good thing, and I hope to convince as many affiliate managers as possible that quotas do a disservice to everyone involved, especially players. The reason why AffiliateHub and Betvictor were rogued is because they gave everyone a "speak to the hand". This is not happening here - and their casinos are good products; it's not affecting players.

 

[colinsunderland]

No need to get testy - they are far from scamming anyone.

As it was mentioned in the thread, I was unaware that the casino reps were blocked from responding here. School boy error on my part. sorry.

But like Simmo stated - these terms can be negotiated - if you try. Bummer as it seems, the landscape has changed these past few months, and a number of affiliate programs are making knee-jerk reactions until the smoke clears. Implementing quotas is never a good thing, and I hope to convince as many affiliate managers as possible that quotas do a disservice to everyone involved, especially players. The reason why AffiliateHub and Betvictor were rogued is because they gave everyone a "speak to the hand". This is not happening here - and their casinos are good products; it's not affecting players.

I'm sorry Bryan, with respect, I disagree. They are introducing quotas which WILL cost affiliates money, if they will negotiate with everyone and remove the quotas then why introduce them in the first place? Regarding AffiliateHub and BetVictor, both their casinos/sportsbooks are good, in fact from a betting point of view I would say Skybet are one of the best for UK customers, the casino is fine too, it just doesn't have a massive selection of games, introducing quotas didn't affect their players either. If anything they probably benefited players as they promotions have got more generous over the past few years.

If any affiliate program introduce quotas from today on all new players going forward, I have no problem with that, however to apply them retroactively is clearly stealing from affiliates, just as it was with other affiliate programs who did the same. I believe in your terms for being accredited it says “Must not implement retroactive terms and conditions to their affiliate programs without explicit permission and agreement from the affiliate.” and I genuinely can't see how that doesn't apply here. It is exactly what Kindred are doing, and they certainly didn't have my permission to do so. Obviously it's your forum and I respect your decision, but I don't agree with it.

 

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

Hi @colinsunderland,

Just a quick note to let you know I've done some digging internally (obviously new to Kindred and trying to understand processes). I've been advised that the @Unibet Rep account is only here to deal with player issues and any affiliate complaints need to be sent directly to your affiliate manager. I also understand that the Unibet Rep did respond via PM so it wasn't total radio silence?

If you need any help contacting your affiliate manager, either myself or the Unibet Rep can assist.

Regards
Mark

 

[colinsunderland]

Hi @colinsunderland,

Just a quick note to let you know I've done some digging internally (obviously new to Kindred and trying to understand processes). I've been advised that the @Unibet Rep account is only here to deal with player issues and any affiliate complaints need to be sent directly to your affiliate manager. I also understand that the Unibet Rep did respond via PM so it wasn't total radio silence?

If you need any help contacting your affiliate manager, either myself or the Unibet Rep can assist.

Regards
Mark

Hi Mark

You understand wrong, I have had no pm from the unibet rep? Maybe he responded to someone else or Bryan, but certainly he hasn't sent me anything.

I will contact my affiliate manager next week, but whatever is agreed doesn't change the fact that what you are doing is predatory, unless you agree with every affiliate not to introduce quotas, in which case, whats the point of adding them in the first place?

Thanks for replying.

Col

 

[Unibet Rep]

Hi Col,

my bad. I was convinced I had replied since as soon as I got your message, I contacted our affiliate team and they told me they are aware of it and are on the case. So I did have a reply on the day I read yours and also assumed you would get contacted that same day. As Mark points out however, there is indeed not much I can do here other than playing the messenger.

Dave

 

[bonustreak]

Just got this mail from TTR Partners.. This is sad I have an email off to Kindred asking for an exemption to this new rule they have. I agree with Simmo, it is better to be polite and try arbitration via email or skype calls.

"3. Will TTRpartners terms and conditions still apply?

No, once migration occurs, Kindred Affiliates terms and conditions will apply. A link to these terms can be found

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. Please ensure you read these carefully and are fully compliant with them prior to migration."

 

[colinsunderland]

Just got this mail from TTR Partners.. This is sad I have an email off to Kindred asking for an exemption to this new rule they have. I agree with Simmo, it is better to be polite and try arbitration via email or skype calls.

"3. Will TTRpartners terms and conditions still apply?

No, once migration occurs, Kindred Affiliates terms and conditions will apply. A link to these terms can be found

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. Please ensure you read these carefully and are fully compliant with them prior to migration."

It will be interesting to see what they say as the implication from some posts is that they will waive it if you ask
I will post the outcome of my email when I get it too.

 

[bonustreak]

Didn't work out for me

Hi Christine
I hope you are well.
Whilst I understand that for some this decision may seem harsh it is a decision that has come from the very top of Kindred Group and as it stand there are no acceptations,
we are able to view all of your separate accounts as one entity and combine any traffic that comes from those.

I hope this helps. Have a good weekend.

 

[colinsunderland]

Didn't work out for me

Hi Christine
I hope you are well.
Whilst I understand that for some this decision may seem harsh it is a decision that has come from the very top of Kindred Group and as it stand there are no acceptations,
we are able to view all of your separate accounts as one entity and combine any traffic that comes from those.

I hope this helps. Have a good weekend.

Well thats a clear lie isn't it.

 

[Dave]

The new terms are being applied retroactively, which is not something anyone should be willing to accept.

If Kindred insists on having quotas now, the only fair way to implement this is to split each affiliate account into two accounts, like this:

Account 1: Contains all of the existing players sent up until now. This account will continue to earn residual income as agreed under the original terms and conditions (with no quotas). New players cannot be sent to this account.

Account 2: For new players sent from this day forward. Quotas may be applied; players may be stolen from Account 2 -- but the players in Account 1 would remain untouched.

Thoughts? Kindred, please say something.

 

[colinsunderland]

The new terms are being applied retroactively, which is not something anyone should be willing to accept.

If Kindred insists on having quotas now, the only fair way to implement this is to split each affiliate account into two accounts, like this:

Account 1: Contains all of the existing players sent up until now. This account will continue to earn residual income as agreed under the original terms and conditions (with no quotas). New players cannot be sent to this account.

Account 2: For new players sent from this day forward. Quotas may be applied; players may be stolen from Account 2 -- but the players in Account 1 would remain untouched.

Thoughts? Kindred, please say something.

Agreed, the rogue way is to apply it to current players.

 

[Webzcas]

I am holding my own counsel here as it were. But having known Simmo! since the time we both became affiliates back in 2004, he is a sage when it comes to giving out advice. I intend to follow his direction.

This situation we affiliates all are facing now, does allow us though the opportunity to make the necessary changes, to ensure our businesses still continue to be a success.

 

[colinsunderland]

I am holding my own counsel here as it were. But having known Simmo! since the time we both became affiliates back in 2004, he is a sage when it comes to giving out advice. I intend to follow his direction.

This situation we affiliates all are facing now, does allow us though the opportunity to make the necessary changes, to ensure our businesses still continue to be a success.

I don't disagree, but it's been shown above the reply to at least one affiliate was, tough. Stealing from one affiliate, to me, makes them rogue.
I got told, as long as they can see I'm trying they won't impose any quotas, however, didn't explain what trying is, and the fact is, while it's in the t&c then in 6 or 24 months, whenever they feel like it, they can close your account.

 

[Dave]

Guys,

If you allow Kindred to get away with retroactive changes, you are opening the door for other programs to follow suit.

Why is Kindred getting a free pass on this, while other programs were rogued here when they implemented retroactive changes?

Is it because the beloved 32Red is involved? Newsflash: They aren't owned and operated by the same nice people anymore. Now it's just another brand in a big stable of brands, owned by a company with questionable ethical standards and a flippant attitude toward their affiliates.

Sure, you might be able to make friends with the new management if you have enough traffic or influence, and they might look the other way if you don't meet their quota -- for now.

But one day, without a doubt, that term will be enforced on your account. If they didn't plan to use it one day, they wouldn't have plopped it into the T&Cs.

They are already enforcing it on several affiliates who posted earlier in this thread, despite them trying to reach out and work something out.

By the way, AGD has rogued the

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because of this.