Kentucky seeking to seize 141 gaming domains

[jetset]

Some of the Kentucky officials are saying that the objective of this exercise is to force operators into settlement agreements with Kentucky to bar Kentucky residents from their sites....even though Internet gambling has not been specifically made unlawful in Kentucky.

To get the original temporary seizure the Kentucky attorneys argued that domain names are gambling devices and fall under the overall laws of the state.

The court case Friday afternoon Eastern Time will be to decide whether the (temporary) seizure mde by Franklin Circuit Judge Thomas Wingate is to be made a firm and final order of the court. If it does (and this has international implications) then there will be appeals to the higher courts.

Several Internet-conscious bodies have already served notice that they are sending legal representatives to the hearing today. And Go Daddy - one of the registrars dragooned into this charade, has announced it has engaged legal opinion and will lodge an objection.

The Kentucky lawyers working on this seizure for Gov. Beshear are being paid on a contingency basis btw - no win, no pay!!!! This makes the situation even more ridiculous imo.

Just to show you how ill-prepared the Kentucky attorneys-for-hire are, two of the domains they have attached represent already closed websites that were formerly the property of the deceased Warren Cloud ...a Kentucky official was unable to explain why these sites were closed, but said it was not due to the domain seizure!

I believe as much as 30 percent of the seized domains are actually no longer operating and have not been so since before Gov. Beshears move.

 

[lots0]

I did notice that there are some real Rogues on that list as well.

The Kentucky lawyers working on this seizure for Gov. Beshear are being paid on a contingency basis btw - no win, no pay!!!! This makes the situation even more ridiculous imo.

Ridiculous, oh ya....
But I also believe that if this is true (what is your source jetset?), it maybe CRIMINAL (and at the very least this is unethical) and those responsible should have to repay the tax payers any monies they gained from this and then have their licenses to practice law revoked.

The KY States Attorney General's Office should be the ones handling this type of action for the people of Kentucky. Not some group of mercenary, ambulance chasing low life scum...

 

[winbig]

I'd like to know wtf this proves? They took control of GoldenCasino.com last night, but the website is still up.

I love the "billing contact." Are they going to renew it once it comes due?

Registration Service Provided By: ANSWERABLE.COM
Contact: +1.3104837168
Website: Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Domain Name: GOLDENCASINO.COM

Registrant:
Commonwealth of Kentucky
Michael Brown ()
125 Holmes Street
Frankfort
Kentucky,40601
US
Tel. +1.8592557080

Creation Date: 27-Oct-1997
Expiration Date: 19-Nov-2010

Domain servers in listed order:
ns2.surf4speed.com
ns1.surf4speed.com

Administrative Contact:
Commonwealth of Kentucky
Michael Brown ()
125 Holmes Street
Frankfort
Kentucky,40601
US
Tel. +1.8592557080

Technical Contact:
Commonwealth of Kentucky
Michael Brown ()
125 Holmes Street
Frankfort
Kentucky,40601
US
Tel. +1.8592557080

Billing Contact:
Commonwealth of Kentucky
Michael Brown ()
125 Holmes Street
Frankfort
Kentucky,40601
US
Tel. +1.8592557080

Status:ACTIVE

 

[jetset]

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

 

[lots0]

Quotes are from the news article that jetset posted above.

...the state's intention is to enter into settlement talks with the online casino operators, asking them to block Kentucky users from their sites and pay damages in exchange for the state returning control of the sites to them.

If they refuse, Kentucky could block access to the sites by users across the world.

Experts however, say the state should be prepared for massive legal battles, not just from the gaming industry but from free-speech and Internet commerce groups as well.

Sounds like good old fashioned extortion to me.

Why should the casino owners go along with this? Like any type of Extortion/Blackmail it never ends... As soon as everyone sees the casino owners give in and pay.... a very long line will form of people and groups that will sue the casinos for their domain names and want some money to back off.

If they want to make it illegal to gamble online in Kentucky, why not make a law to that effect, you know, make it really illegal to gamble online in Kentucky....

Maybe the same reason that KY does not have a Law against online gambling is the same reason the Ky States Attorney is not involved with this.

"The only option they would have is to set up a new domain name," Allemann said. "If they do that, they will lose a lot of their business. Some of that will be temporary, but they won't fully recover."

These guys are morons, not only should they have used the States Attorney, they should have checked with a few experts on the www ...

 

[lots0]

Note to Mods:
You guys might want to merge the two threads about this into one, my opinion only.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

If they want to make it illegal to gamble online in Kentucky, why not make a law to that effect, you know, make it really illegal to gamble online in Kentucky....

Maybe not their true intent.....still hard to pinpoint the political posturing but Yung, former heavy Republican supporter, all of a sudden turned Democratic supporter after aquiring land in Northern Kentucky for the sole purpose of building land based casino(s), well nevermind me but you may find some foreshadowing in the last sentence of the following:

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March 31, 2008
Big day for Beshear buddy Bill Yung
The next time Governor Steve Beshear starts talking about how rosy things are in Indiana, West Virginia, and Illinois because they have legalized casino gambling, remember this story.

The Indiana Gaming Commission is meeting this hour to consider the fate of Casino Aztar, the riverboat casino located on Kentucky's border in Evansville, Indiana. Casino Aztar is likely to have its casino license revoked by Indiana's state gaming commission in their meeting. The casino is owned by Northern Kentucky-based Columbia Sussex Corporation, who is putting the casino up for sale along with two other casinos in an attempt to avoid bankruptcy in the wake of a scandal that cost the company its casino license for the Tropicana Casino in Atlantic City, New Jersey.

Frequent readers of KyPolitics.org will remember that Columbia Sussex is owned by Bill Yung, the million dollar contributor to the Bluegrass Freedom Fund 527 which spent a total of $3.1 million last year in an effort to elect Steve Beshear as governor. The Republican Party of Kentucky later filed a complaint with the Kentucky Registry of Election Finance regarding the Beshear campaign's alleged coordination with the Bluegrass Freedom Fund.

The The Indianapolis Star has a good accounting of Casino Aztar and Bill Yung's troubles:

The fate of Casino Aztar will be in the hands of Indiana gambling regulators this week, a little more than a year after the troubled boat was taken over by Kentucky hotel magnate William Yung III.
The Indiana Gaming Commission, which is to convene at 1 p.m. today in Indianapolis to consider the Evansville boat's license, could take control of the facility or tighten the leash on parent Columbia Sussex Corp. until the casino can be sold.

But as of Friday, there's no buyer in these uncertain economic times, although Aztar -- Indiana's first casino -- has been on the market since December.

[...]

The Evansville Courier editorializes on Yung's Columbia Sussex Corporation:

[...]
Meanwhile, the Gaming Commission already had Columbia Sussex under its microscope because of a post-licensing suitability investigation. That was triggered when Mayor Jonathan Weinzapfel lodged a complaint that Columbia had reneged on promises about staffing levels when the commission approved transferring Aztar's license to Columbia in fall 2006. Under its previous ownership, the Evansville riverboat had once boasted nearly 1,200 workers; but under Columbia the payroll has been slashed to fewer than 950 by mid-2007, according to commission records.

The revocation of Columbia's New Jersey gaming license would be legal grounds for the Indiana commission to revoke its license here as well. And without a license, Columbia couldn't operate the casino. One can imagine the wallop to the local economy such an interruption would cause.

But indications are the Gaming Commission is trying to negotiate a graceful way out of the Evansville market for Columbia while keeping Aztar operating until a new owner is in place, Courier & Press staff writer Dan Shaw reported.

[...]

No question, Columbia Sussex has not been a good corporate citizen during its short, unpleasant tenure in Evansville. The sooner a reputable buyer is found for Aztar, the better off all will be.

[...]

Beshear was all too happy to have Bill Yung's money working for him in last year's gubernatorial campaign, and even admitted to meeting with Yung once last year. Now that Yung's casino troubles have been exposed, Beshear won't even admit to meeting with Yung in the Capitol, even though Yung's name appears on a sign in sheet for Beshear's office.

And Beshear loves to talk about the "great things" that casinos do for states that have legalized gambling. But readers will never hear Beshear talk about the significant problems that casinos bring to those states.

File this one away for next year when Beshear decides to start talking about Kentucky casinos again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I see the potential legal, ethical, corruption, etc. issues above and in this thread but I also realize online gaming has it's own issues so just posting fyi in this case.

 

[Rusty]

This is unbelievable!

Not that the Mafia (or whatever guise they are in these Days) and corruption are still alive and well and play a large role in the US political agenda but that One person alone can have so much power as to attempt to close some doors to the last great free place, the internet.
Kind of ironic how the freest place on Earth is not...erm on Earth

Talking of irony,
We are berating a corrupt Man for trying to close down a corrupt industry on the only pure medium

What a shit hole of a World we live in.

Americans it is time to stand up for what you believe in;
It is no longer enough to wave a flag singing "Land of the free"
It is time to prove you are free.
The Years of inaction and apathy have eroded your rights,but fight now, protest, protest, protest,
America is you and you can be FREE!


Thank you

 

[Mousey]

'Very complex' online gambling case continued

Link Removed (invalid URL)

State wants attorneys to name their clients

By RONNIE ELLIS
CNHI News Service

FRANKFORT Kentucky wants to know who owns those 141 domain names for Internet gambling services.

But at a hearing Friday afternoon in Judge Thomas Wingates Franklin Circuit Courtroom attorneys representing those entities steadfastly declined to reveal the names of their clients beyond the domain name itself.

Wingate gave attorneys for the gambling sites seven days to file briefs on a host of legal issues involving standing, jurisdiction and property rights before he conducts another hearing at which he could allow the state to forfeit the names.

Robert Foote, a Chicago attorney representing ...

 

[RobWin]

Brown said the state’s goal is to stop the activity in Kentucky and he used the only avenue available to him – a 1974 Kentucky law that allows the state to seize illegal gambling “devices.” The state contends the domain names constitute gambling devices.

If that's the case then you could also argue that the domain names for foreign banking sites constitute money laundering devices...

What a can of worms this will open up !!

 

[jetset]

Link Removed (invalid URL)

State wants attorneys to name their clients

By RONNIE ELLIS
CNHI News Service

FRANKFORT Kentucky wants to know who owns those 141 domain names for Internet gambling services.

But at a hearing Friday afternoon in Judge Thomas Wingates Franklin Circuit Courtroom attorneys representing those entities steadfastly declined to reveal the names of their clients beyond the domain name itself.

Wingate gave attorneys for the gambling sites seven days to file briefs on a host of legal issues involving standing, jurisdiction and property rights before he conducts another hearing at which he could allow the state to forfeit the names.

Robert Foote, a Chicago attorney representing ...

And before the parties even entered the court Friday there were negotiations going on between Kentucky officials and representatives of un-named online casino operators, according to Forbes.

The discussions centred on blocking Kentucky residents....and how much the operatoirs were prepared to pay Kentucky state for damages already incurred - whatever that means.

October 7 resumption of these hearings is going to be interesting.

 

[Mousey]

And before the parties even entered the court Friday there were negotiations going on between Kentucky officials and representatives of un-named online casino operators, according to Forbes.

The discussions centred on blocking Kentucky residents....and how much the operatoirs were prepared to pay Kentucky state for damages already incurred - whatever that means.

October 7 resumption of these hearings is going to be interesting.

Amazing isn't it? It always comes down to extorting money... there can be no other word for it. Intimidate, coerce, extort.... the pattern remains the same. If it wasn't about extorting money, it would be easier and less time consuming to simply block Kentuckians ISPs from connecting the 'offending' sites, would it not?

Protectionism reigns when they roll out the sacred cow -- horse racing. Mr Beshear is so intent on keeping ALL gambling money in his state, I wonder if he's considered a blockade at all roads leading out of Kentucky... no one allowed out who is driving to AC, or Illinois, or Tunica to gamble. Citizens entering the state required to declare if they're bringing in money won gambling out of state, such winnings would be declared illegal and would be confiscated by the state. Any casino in any state which allow Kentuckians to play would be fined. No flights out allowed to Vegas or Reno.... Ridiculous? that's precisely what Beshear is doing -- except because he's doing it on the internet, very few average citizens are paying attention.

I wonder how the WTO will feel about Beshear's stunt?

Also I find the timing of this thing interesting. Barney Frank and the Financial committees have their hands full to overflowing with the financial stability of our country's banks. So while all this is going on (banks failing, gov't bail outs, etc.) Beshear just so happens to decide to play Lord of the Internet, beginning with a trio of ideas horrifying to most who use the WWW -- internet censorship (wants to block Kentuckians' internet access to certain websites), cybersquating (they've already taken over two domains and threaten over 130 more), and cyberterrorism (do what I say or I'll take your domains).

Strangely enough... I find Beshear's actions, and the possibility that he may succeed, more frightening than the idea that my local banks may go belly up. And this fear has nothing to do with whether or not I am able to gamble online. It's the fear that some sanctimonious, greedy, protectionist twit suddenly seems to have gained the right to tell me where I can and cannot go, what I can and cannot see, when I'm on the WWW.

Apologies for being so wordy. I did try to use paragraphs. ... this whole thing is just as outrageous as the passage of the UIGEA was, and it makes me so mad I want to spit.

 

[Rusty]

No apologies necessary I think many people who understand this feel exactly the same way and you do not have to be a Kentuckian or even an American to feel worried.
Who the hell is this Guy to dictate what people can and can not do in their private lives.

Amazing isn't it? It always comes down to extorting money... there can be no other word for it. Intimidate, coerce, extort.... the pattern remains the same. If it wasn't about extorting money, it would be easier and less time consuming to simply block Kentuckians ISPs from connecting the 'offending' sites, would it not?

Protectionism reigns when they roll out the sacred cow -- horse racing. Mr Beshear is so intent on keeping ALL gambling money in his state, I wonder if he's considered a blockade at all roads leading out of Kentucky... no one allowed out who is driving to AC, or Illinois, or Tunica to gamble. Citizens entering the state required to declare if they're bringing in money won gambling out of state, such winnings would be declared illegal and would be confiscated by the state. Any casino in any state which allow Kentuckians to play would be fined. No flights out allowed to Vegas or Reno.... Ridiculous? that's precisely what Beshear is doing -- except because he's doing it on the internet, very few average citizens are paying attention.

I wonder how the WTO will feel about Beshear's stunt?

Also I find the timing of this thing interesting. Barney Frank and the Financial committees have their hands full to overflowing with the financial stability of our country's banks. So while all this is going on (banks failing, gov't bail outs, etc.) Beshear just so happens to decide to play Lord of the Internet, beginning with a trio of ideas horrifying to most who use the WWW -- internet censorship (wants to block Kentuckians' internet access to certain websites), cybersquating (they've already taken over two domains and threaten over 130 more), and cyberterrorism (do what I say or I'll take your domains).

Strangely enough... I find Beshear's actions, and the possibility that he may succeed, more frightening than the idea that my local banks may go belly up. And this fear has nothing to do with whether or not I am able to gamble online. It's the fear that some sanctimonious, greedy, protectionist twit suddenly seems to have gained the right to tell me where I can and cannot go, what I can and cannot see, when I'm on the WWW.

Apologies for being so wordy. I did try to use paragraphs. ... this whole thing is just as outrageous as the passage of the UIGEA was, and it makes me so mad I want to spit.

 

[Jackpot Factory]

Update from David Brickman at the Jackpot Factory

Hi everyone,

As most of you must have heard the .coms received another week to plead their case. The judge said this issues was complex. I think most people on this forum and in the online world understand its not so complex!

This ruling hasnt changed most plans for people in the industry. Nobody, especially Microgaming, can take a risk that one day their domains will simply be confiscated. If it doesnt happen in Kentucky it could happen in another state.

Stay tuned

All the best,

David Brickman
VP Player Affairs
Jackpot Factory Casino Group

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[RobWin]

Hi everyone,

As most of you must have heard the .coms received another week to plead their case. The judge said this issues was complex. I think most people on this forum and in the online world understand its not so complex!

This ruling hasnt changed most plans for people in the industry. Nobody, especially Microgaming, can take a risk that one day their domains will simply be confiscated. If it doesnt happen in Kentucky it could happen in another state.

Stay tuned

All the best,

David Brickman
VP Player Affairs
Jackpot Factory Casino Group

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

So David, have you guys already re-registered your domains with foreign registars now ??

 

[lots0]

So David, have you guys already re-registered your domains with foreign registars now ??

Rob, I doubt any casino rep is going to answer a direct question in public right now about the actions they are currently taking.

Nobody, especially Microgaming, can take a risk that one day their domains will simply be confiscated.

Hmmmm... I like the sound of that.
Sounds like it's time to unleash the legal hounds from Hell...

 

[RobWin]

Rob, I doubt any casino rep is going to answer a direct question in public right now about the actions they are currently taking.


Hmmmm... I like the sound of that.
Sounds like it's time to unleash the legal hounds from Hell...

Yea, you probably right lots0, but still it is also easily looked up by using whois APNIC or some other several sites...I think once registered with a foreign registar I could not foresee anything that the casinos would have to be worried about concerning the US trying to cease their domain names then...

 

[alfred666]

I'd like to know wtf this proves? They took control of GoldenCasino.com last night, but the website is still up.

I love the "billing contact." Are they going to renew it once it comes due?

WHOIS as of Sep. 27th:
Registration Service Provided By: ANSWERABLE.COM
Contact: +1.3104837168
Website: Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Domain Name: GOLDENCASINO.COM

Registrant:
Commonwealth of Kentucky
Michael Brown ()
125 Holmes Street
Frankfort
Kentucky,40601
US
Tel. +1.8592557080

Creation Date: 27-Oct-1997
Expiration Date: 19-Nov-2010

Domain servers in listed order:
ns2.surf4speed.com
ns1.surf4speed.com

Does anyone understand why the goldencasino domain was apparently released again by the original registrar after turning it over to Kentucky?

As of right now (Sep 27th), the domain is served by another registrar as well as a different registrant. There isn't much info on the new registrant, but from the bits you can see and the links you can make, this "seems" to be the owners of goldencasino again.

I understand that goldencasino confirmed not to take any further Kentucky business, but I seriously doubt that the Kentucky administration would turn the domain back right away, especially as they only have received it on the 25th.

Another explanation of this happening would be that goldencasino initiated a registrar change right after this issue became public (on the 22nd), which I'd assume they did, and the old registrar didn't put any kind of lock on the domain, despite handing it over to Kentucky as the registrant, resulting in the registrar change being approved "automatically" after the usual 5 days this process takes.
The above paragraph is pure speculation, but I find it pretty weird that the domain is in new hands and with a new registrar 2 days after being confiscated and handed over to the Kentucky authorities.

Anyone having an insight on this?

WHOIS as of Sep 27th:
[whois.PublicDomainRegistry.com]
Registration Service Provided By: FIRST ALPINA TECHNOLOGIES, INC.
Contact: +66.29575

Domain Name: GOLDENCASINO.COM

Registrant:
Rosehip Ltd.
Steven Melkman ([email protected])
Caribbean Suite
The Valley
Anguilla
null,TV1 11P
AI
Tel. +599.94611401

Creation Date: 27-Oct-1997
Expiration Date: 19-Nov-2010

Domain servers in listed order:
ns2.surf4speed.com
ns1.surf4speed.com

 

[jetset]

See post 61 in this thread - I don't have any specific inside info on this, but the company involved in those pre-court 'negotiations' with Kentucky lawyers was Golden Casino.com - that's been confirmed by the official Kentucky spokesperson.

 

[lots0]

Registration Service Provided By: FIRST ALPINA TECHNOLOGIES, INC.
Contact: +66.29575

Domain Name: GOLDENCASINO.COM

Registrant:
Rosehip Ltd.
Steven Melkman ()
Caribbean Suite
The Valley
Anguilla
null,TV1 11P
AI
Tel. +599.94611401

Creation Date: 27-Oct-1997
Expiration Date: 19-Nov-2010

Domain servers in listed order:
ns2.surf4speed.com
ns1.surf4speed.com

Administrative Contact:
Rosehip Ltd.
Steven Melkman ()
Caribbean Suite
The Valley
Anguilla
null,TV1 11P
AI
Tel. +599.94611401

Technical Contact:
Rosehip Ltd.
Steven Melkman ()
Caribbean Suite
The Valley
Anguilla
null,TV1 11P
AI
Tel. +599.94611401

Billing Contact:
Rosehip Ltd.
Steven Melkman ()
Caribbean Suite
The Valley
Anguilla
null,TV1 11P
AI
Tel. +599.94611401

Status:LOCKED



***********************************

Note the "LOCKED" status.

Maybe the registrars, took a close look at this situation and decided on siding with those who butter their bread...

The current registrars FIRST ALPINA TECHNOLOGIES, INC. is located in the Netherlands and Hong Kong.

This is amazing from my point of view, as it usually takes more than a day or two for registration changes to propagate.

 

[vinylweatherman]

If any of this ends up affecting an EU online gambling company from offering it's services OUTSIDE THE USA, there will be another delegation from the EU to see those US polititians.

The US can no longer complain about countries such as China who "censor the internet", as this is exactly what THEY are trying to do. The US believes online gambling is against their national interests (revenue flowing abroad), whilst China feels that the campaign calling for Tibetan independence threatens the national interests of China. Each thinks the other is wrong, but that THEY are right.

This is NOT the first time the US has done this, a Nevada court allowed seizure of some Bodog domains, so the precedent has already been set. The effect on Bodog was minimal.

Apart from the sites named in this case, the business of the average US based domain name registrar is going to be impacted, with other site owners not wanting to risk that one day THEIR operation will be considered "illegal" by some US state or federal authority.
There has already been the threat of trade sanctions by Antigua and Barbuda over the US allowing it's home grown companies to offer some online gambling, but seeking to prevent competition from outside. The suggested sanction was for US copyrights to be unenforced within Antigua and Barbuda, and this would damage the music and film industry as it would provide for a "legitimate" host server(s) for what is regarded as "internet piracy" of film and musical content.

Here in Britain, we don't see why we should be "held to ransom" by these film and music companies by being forced to SUBSIDISE the far lower prices paid by other countries for the same content, yet at the same time have to WAIT LONGER than them to get it (legally).

If AMERICAN casinos one day get regulation of online subsidiaries, they should remember that the USA is NOT on the current "whitelist", and that it would be ILLEGAL for them to promote the operations within the EU, and the EU, miffed at the Kentucky manouevers, may even be arsed to ENFORCE it

 

[lots0]

I sent an email to the Governor of Kentucky that started all this crap, Steven Beshear. In the email, I tried to explain (in short simple terms so the politicians could understand) that what he was doing would undermine the entire www.

I also explained that what he was doing just simply would not work, from a technical point, that the websites would continue to operate and continue to take gamblers from Kentucky, until there was a State law in place that forbids gambling online.

Below is Governor Steven L. Beshear response to my email.

Dear Mr. XXXXXXXXXXXXXX:

Thank you for contacting me regarding Internet gambling. By acting to stop illegal, unlicensed, and unregulated gambling sites from taking advantage of Kentuckians, my administration is enforcing current law, not creating new legislation. It is important to defend the citizens of Kentucky, particularly our youth, from deception and predatory practices. As unregulated Internet gambling is illegal in Kentucky, I believe it is our responsibility to move forward with this action. These illegal sites also threaten Kentucky's legal forms of gaming - in horse racing, through the lottery, and at churches through bingo and charitable gaming. I am interested in protecting these legal and highly regulated forms of gaming, which are so important to our state.

Your views are important to me, and I am grateful for your willingness to be involved in Kentucky's future. Please feel free to contact me whenever an issue is important to you.

Sincerely,



Steven L. Beshea

Please note that the Governor states that he is only enforcing current law. I would really like to know what law he is enforcing, so I sent him another email asking for that information...




Added........... My follow up to the Kentucky Governor's email to me.

Governor,

As you stated that you were only enforcing an existing state law, would you be so kind as to provide me with the specific law that forbids online gambling inside Kentucky.

I am afraid that my attorneys located in Kentucky are unable to find this specific law you are enforcing.

Thank You
Mr. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

[winbig]

The wire act?

 

[lots0]

The wire act?

LOL... Yup, I do believe that Steven Beshear and cronies are stretching the 'law' a very very long way to come to this conclusion.

From what I've been told, the Governor is trying to say that because online gambling in not specifically allowed by Ky law, it is then excluded. Most lawyers find this argument a paper tiger that can easily be defeated in most any court.


BTW - I don't expect an answer from Ky to my follow up email.

 

[RobWin]

These illegal sites also threaten Kentucky's legal forms of gaming - in horse racing, through the lottery, and at churches through bingo and charitable gaming.

Hell, he must be talking about their local branch of the "Holy Rollers Casino" !!

 

[lots0]

These illegal sites also threaten Kentucky's legal forms of gaming.

Well at least he did state the REAL reason for starting all this crap.
He is protecting the people that put money in his pocket, like land based casino owner Bill Yung. Who gave one Million dollars to the Governors pet project and also gave a million to a political group that used the money to get Beshear elected as Governor.

BTW - Casino Owner Bill Yung has stated several times that he sees online casinos and online gambling as his single biggest competitor for gambling dollars. Anyone wanna bet Yung is behind all this??? I'll give odds.... LOL.


Here is an old thread with some info from jetset about the KY Governor and Bill Yung's millions of US Dollars.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/kentucky-contributions.23061/

 

[lots0]

Well I guess I won't be receiving an answer from the KY guv's office...

The pricks banned my IP address after sending me the email I posted.

 

[RobWin]

Well I guess I won't be receiving an answer from the KY guv's office...

The pricks banned my IP address after sending me the email I posted.

Are you kidding...they really did this...

 

[winbig]

Well I guess I won't be receiving an answer from the KY guv's office...

The pricks banned my IP address after sending me the email I posted.

This just goes to show you what they think of people that are against them.

 

[lots0]

Ya they really banned my IP address.

But that action just shows how ignorant they are about the www (and what true MF'ers they are).

I just reset my IP and resent the email.

 

[RobWin]

Ya they really banned my IP address.

But that action just shows how ignorant they are about the www.

I just reset my IP and resent the email.

Yea...LOL, I kinda figured you would...

They can't even start to fathom what can and can't be done with the internet...

 

[vinylweatherman]

LOL... Yup, I do believe that Steven Beshear and cronies are stretching the 'law' a very very long way to come to this conclusion.

From what I've been told, the Governor is trying to say that because online gambling in not specifically allowed by Ky law, it is then excluded. Most lawyers find this argument a paper tiger that can easily be defeated in most any court.


BTW - I don't expect an answer from Ky to my follow up email.

Well, next time he takes a sh*t, have him brought before the courts unless he can show a Ky law that specifically allows it

 

[Pinababy69]

Governor,

As you stated that you were only enforcing an existing state law, would you be so kind as to provide me with the specific law that forbids online gambling inside Kentucky.

I am afraid that my attorneys located in Kentucky are unable to find this specific law you are enforcing.
Thank You
Mr. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

The pricks banned my IP address after sending me the email I posted.

I just reset my IP and resent the email.

Civil disobedience at its finest, lmaooooo.... You just made my night Lots0. You sure we're not long lost cousins or something? :smilewink:

 

[The Dude]

Here's Attny. Martin Owens take on the whole thing -- and I concur.

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[lots0]

Here's Attny. Martin Owens take on the whole thing -- and I concur.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Good article, Mr. Owens makes some great points. But, unfortunately you just can't argue logic and common sense with people that are consumed by greed...

 

[Mousey]

update

Associated Press

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By JOE BIESK 10.07.08, 5:49 PM ET


FRANKFORT, Ky. - Lawyers from around the country packed a Franklin County courtroom Tuesday asking a local circuit judge to dismiss Kentucky's attempt at blocking residents' access to numerous online gambling Web sites.

Gov. Steve Beshear's administration - which supports legalizing casino gambling in the state - says the online gambling Web sites are illegal and Kentuckians should not have access to them.

Attorneys opposing the state, however, say Kentucky doesn't have jurisdiction on a case that could have international ramifications.

"These domain names do not exist here," said Jerry Stouck, a Washington attorney representing ...

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Further down in the article ...

Wingate said he would hope to have a ruling by next week.

 

[The Dude]

Beshear, a Democrat, made his support for a constitutional amendment legalizing casino gambling a central focus of his campaign for governor last year. The governor tried and failed earlier this year to get the General Assembly to put a proposed amendment before voters.

Kentucky already allows gambling on horse racing and bingo, and has a state lottery.

Still, Beshear has called the Internet gambling sites targeted by his administration as "leeches on our communities" and acknowledged the move would protect the state's "signature industry."

So MGS is leeching off of the Kentuckians Since when did Microgaming get involved with horse racing???

 

[winbig]

Rob Slauenwhite, a 28-year-old Louisville resident, attended Tuesday's court proceedings wearing a shirt that advertised a Web site where he likes to play poker

IN YOUR FACE, BESHEAR!

 

[Mousey]

I think the law Beshear is using refers to 'gambling devices' being illegal. I suggest Mr. Beshear do a house to house search and confiscate any computer w/casino software on it, and arrest the Kentuckian that owns it. But he'd better go with a SWAT team that's armed to eyeballs, 'cause southerners --especially Kentuckians-- wouldn't put up with such crap.

 

[winbig]

Here we go. The beginning of the end of OUR FREEDOMS.

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Judge allows gambling Web site case to proceed

Posted: Oct 16, 2008 04:24 PM

Updated: Oct 16, 2008 04:24 PM

FRANKFORT, Ky. (AP) - A Franklin County Circuit Court judge has refused to dismiss a lawsuit seeking to block access to online casinos in Kentucky.

Judge Thomas Wingate said in an order Thursday afternoon that he will hear arguments on Nov. 17 before deciding whether to give Kentucky state government control of the domain names of 140 of the Internet's most popular gambling Web sites.

Wingate said online casinos that don't block access to their Web sites in Kentucky could be ordered to forfeit their domain names.

Gov. Steve Beshear's administration filed the lawsuit. Beshear supports legalizing casino gambling in a state that already allows betting on horse racing, bingo and a state lottery.

(Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

 

[pokeraddict]

This judge is a complete retard. He has just said that it is OK for us to steal property from companies in other countries and put them on trial just because we disagree with what they are doing. Does this mean that in Saudi Arabia they can start to steal property from porn companies in other countries because they don't allow it? This is absurd and even more of a reason to vote out anyone incumbant that does not fully support the movement. Am i right to say that we are the only country in the western world that does this crap over internet poker? Even countries our government claims are the enemy don't do this type of stuff.

 

[lots0]

This judge is a complete retard.

I could not agree more.
Retarded political appointee judges is why there is an Appellate Court....

 

[winbig]

This judge should be thrown off the bench. This is just further evidence that he's even more retarded than we thought. How can you list "141 Internet Domain Names" as defendants?

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[Mousey]

Can Kentucky kill online gambling?

from the Kansas City Star ....

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By Jay Lakin
Co-Owner and Vice President, PokerSource.com

The online poker industry may once again be fundamentally changing in the United States.
Jay Lakin
First came enactment of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act on the national level back in 2006.

Now Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear has taken it upon himself to try to eradicate internet gambling altogether by seizing 141 of the worlds largest domain names. The reason: In part to protect the states horse racing industry and state lottery.

It doesnt seem plausible that a Governor could single-handedly order the forfeiture of domain names belonging to sites like Bodog, Absolute Poker, Ultimate Bet, .....

 

[lots0]

This is the part I like.....

The lack of an order to overturn Beshear’s actions led iMEGA to file a petition asking the Kentucky Court of Appeals to step in rather than wait for the forfeiture hearing. iMEGA President Ed Leyden recently told us, “We’re all on the same side and have the same common enemies. This is an invalid order. The court lacked jurisdiction. The best course of action now is to fight with every fiber in our being.”

This is the truly amazing part...

Finally, it is worth mentioning TwinSpires.com, a website owned by the same company that owns and operates the Churchill Downs horse racing track -- and is not among the 141 domain names in the case.

This favoritism has prompted outcry from the industry, which claims that all internet gambling should be treated equally. After all, why should online wagering on horse racing be any different than playing online poker? If the argument here is protecting children, don't we also want to protect them from wagering on Seabiscuit?

Interested poker players and others can learn more at: www.PokerPlayersAlliance.org

If you really want to join the fight to shut down these clowns like Beshear and give us back our freedom to play when and where we want... Sign up at the PokerPlayersAlliance.org

 

[Mousey]

I thought this was a pretty good overview....

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
Part of the ECT News Network
11/11/08 4:00 AM PT

A Kentucky court case that seeks to regulate access to online gambling could have a dramatic impact on the conduct of e-commerce that would go far beyond whether Americans get to indulge in games of chance on the Web. Can a state court seize a domain name if a Web site is found in violation of local laws?

Lost in the furious run-up to the November elections was a Kentucky court ruling that could unravel a long-established legal argument supporting basic e-commerce activity: namely, that local or state governments cannot extend their reach into cyberspace to impose their own laws on a Web site.

Because that precept is considered so fundamental to e-commerce, it is likely that any challenge to it will eventually be dismissed or overturned. If not, the ramifications would be chilling for e-commerce -- and would ...

 

[KathyK]

What about bingo? Why is it just slots??? It just doesn't seem fair to me.

 

[vinylweatherman]

What about bingo? Why is it just slots??? It just doesn't seem fair to me.

That's because it isn't.

Maybe this case, should it go ahead, will create such an embarrassment to the USA that it will be stopped in it's tracks by someone wielding an even bigger stick than the govenor of Kentucky.

If America can do it, there would be no reason why other countries could not legally seize ANY US domain they claim to be acting against local laws, however trivial.

To many outsiders, a crusade against placing bets on the internet by a state that itself runs large gambling operations will be seen as a minor local squabble, and will be incensed that it was allowed to create such a mess in the wider field of e-commerce that it fundamentally changes the framework of the internet. There are MANY countries who hold the USA responsible for SERIOUS breaches of THEIR local laws, and they could therefore use this case to back one of their own.
China, for example, has been critisized heavily by it's attempts to censor the internet, and shutting out many US based sites that promote freedom and democracy, and try to make ordinary Chinese aware of what is really going on. China block these sites locally, but what is now to stop them trying to seize the likes of cnn.com for serious breaches of Chinese censorship laws.
Other countries, such as Iran, would love to shut down access to some US websites, and in fact the biggest targets apart from news and "democracy" would be any site that promotes Christianity, or indeed any other belief than Islam. The Christian movement is very powerful, and also one of the prime movers behind the war on internet gambling, They could find their success leads to THEIR religion being LEGALLY shut out from many countries whose states consider the Christian teachings as "blasphemy", a VERY SERIOUS breach of "local laws" indeed.

Individual countries could then extend the fight for good old fashioned protectionism, seizing any sites belonging to competitor businesses that compete with a national "protected" supplier of the same commodities. This is, in effect, the basis of the Kentucky case, but there are many more businesses that would love to see the competition shut out of it's region, and the Internet is the biggest danger of all, since it allows businesses to compete unfettered by local trickery (such as preventing shops from being established through bogus planning objections).

Microsoft should worry what the EU might do if Kentucky sets a precedent. The EU have already levied many fines on Microsoft (for how it sells it's products through retailers), but so far cannot touch it's internet side - but seizure of microsoft.com for disobeying local EU laws would really hurt.

 

[jetset]

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Court Must Vacate Kentucky Court's Baseless Domain Name Seizure

Battle Over Online Gambling Sites Puts Free Speech, Commerce at Risk

Frankfort, KY - The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), the Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT), and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) urged a Kentucky Court of Appeals Wednesday to vacate a lower court's order authorizing the seizure of more than 100 Internet domain names associated with websites operating around the globe. The seizure, and the lower court's exercise of jurisdiction over global domain names, threatens free speech across the Internet.

In a move to combat what it viewed as illegal online gambling, the Commonwealth of Kentucky convinced a state court to "seize" 141 domain names because the names allegedly constituted "gambling devices" that are banned under Kentucky law -- even though the sites were owned and operated by individuals outside of the state, and in many cases even outside of the country. Unless the sites screened out Kentucky users, the court held, the seizure order was proper.......

 

[jetset]

Update

Some good news at last.....

Kentucky Court Grants iMEGA Motion to Stay Domain Seizures

Nov. 14, 2008 -

The Court of Appeals of Kentucky has granted a motion to stay a forfeiture hearing for 141 Internet domain names. Kentucky Gov. Stephen Beshear and Michael J. Brown, the states Secretary of Justice and Public Safety, had sought the seizure of the domain names, most related to Internet gambling, in an effort to protect the states own gambling industry from competition by online gambling sites.

The Interactive Media Entertainment & Gaming Association (iMEGA), an Internet trade association in Washington, DC, asked the appeals court to stay the forfeiture hearing ordered by district court Judge Thomas Wingate scheduled for Dec. 3rd, until the appeals court had an opportunity to consider iMEGAs petition to have the lower court seizure ruling overturned. A hearing to consider that petition has been scheduled for Dec. 12th in Louisville.

Were please that the Court of Appeals has given us the opportunity to challenge these seizures, said Joe Brennan Jr., iMEGAs chairman. The commonwealth has tried to take these domains for their own financial gain, violating Kentucky law, exceeding their jurisdiction, and setting a terrible precedent in the process.

The appeals court also decided to combine iMEGAs petition with a narrower petition filed by Interactive Gaming Council (IGC), of Vancouver, BC, an international online gambling trade group. Both groups contended that the lower court lacked jurisdiction to order the domain seizures. iMEGA contends that the lower court misapplied Kentuckys specific gambling devices law in order to provide a rationale for permitting the seizures. iMEGA also argues that Kentuckys actions violate the Commerce Clause of the US Constitution, and that Secretary Brown lacked the authority to initiate the seizure action in the first place.

This matter has generated concerns across the online world about abuse of governmental power, said Brennan. Kentucky is opening the door for any government - state and local, foreign and domestic - to use what amounts to blackmail to achieve its ends. If this precedent is allowed to stand, its not hard to imagine a government like China utilizing this kind of seizure power to prevent free media, like the New York Times, from reaching their citizens.

None of the 141 domain names are owned by individuals or companies are located in Kentucky. Gov. Beshear claimed the Internet gambling sites were sapping money from the states own gambling businesses, calling them leeches on our community.

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