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So what exactly would be out of our control?
Question Is this possible? Or am I crazy?
- Thread starter luck17
- Start date
So what exactly would be out of our control?
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- Feb 24, 2018
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- Lincoln UK
Except that there's day I win and can't seem to lose.And there's days I lose and can't seem to win. And there's days I make a small profit and days I make a huge profit. There's days I get a moderate amount of playtime. There's times I go months without winning. And times I'll withdraw every month in succession. Almost like it's....random
Not wishing to stir up the tinfoil brigade, but "almost like its....compensated" would also fit that pattern LOL
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except there's zero benefit for a casino to compensate a slot. They arent a philanthropic organization, theyre a business.
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As @SlotGrinder says. There will always be people that keep thinking these things and posting their believes, And as I said soo many times. Post evidence to back up your claims.
It is just a never ending cycle. Post, rant, moan, post, rant, moan, repeat repeat repeat. It will never end. I think it is probably best that from now on I will just not reply to the posts. All we are doing is fueling them even more with their distorted views!
It is just a never ending cycle. Post, rant, moan, post, rant, moan, repeat repeat repeat. It will never end. I think it is probably best that from now on I will just not reply to the posts. All we are doing is fueling them even more with their distorted views!
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1. I never said they were I was just pointing out that the pattern could look the same as random.
2. If I had, and I cannot confirm or deny I do, I would not be able to post evidence for legal reasons.
3. You are 100% correct it is never going to end, there will always be people of both sides commenting.
4. However if you really want to open a can of worms the key word is underlined in the pic attached, your welcome to comment and or draw your own conclusions to its meaning.
5. Why do not all games have this statement in the Paytable / help screens? Again you can draw your own conclusions.
6. The biggest reason we are going round in circles with this and other inconsistency's, is despite all the recent improvements there is still a complete lack of transparency in many issues raised by players.
Just my opinion
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This has been answered various times. Some casinos that have the same jackpot games usually use the same global jackpots. But some casinos have their own progressive amounts for some games. MG for example do not. They are all global. So every casino that have the mega moolah jackpots all have the same amounts. As for currency. I think there is also different jackpots for different currencies. But I am not fully sure on that aspect, someone else would need to post about that.
As for the RTP, again this has been posted time and time again. Casinos get a choice between 3 different RTP settings. But the most trustworthy casinos choose to have the ones with the highest RTP.
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- RJVille UK
1. I never said they were I was just pointing out that the pattern could look the same as random.
2. If I had, and I cannot confirm or deny I do, I would not be able to post evidence for legal reasons.
3. You are 100% correct it is never going to end, there will always be people of both sides commenting.
4. However if you really want to open a can of worms the key word is underlined in the pic attached, your welcome to comment and or draw your own conclusions to its meaning.
5. Why do not all games have this statement in the Paytable / help screens? Again you can draw your own conclusions.
6. The biggest reason we are going round in circles with this and other inconsistency's, is despite all the recent improvements there is still a complete lack of transparency in many issues raised by players.
Just my opinion
View attachment 88933
And casinos are becoming more transparent, well the more trustworthy ones. Also the UKGC for example are tightening their belts and adding new rules and guidelines for casinos that have a UKGC license. So if your in the UK it is a good thing. But because those casinos have a UKGC license the rules and terms etc apply to all jurisdictions. It is not a good casino if they have different terms for 1 country and other terms for another country. That would not be fair or a good business decision, that will just tarnish a casino brand more.
So eventually more casinos will be adding more help files for slots. Yes they are lacking. But they will be forced to do so when the UKGC make their guidelines even more clear that they have to display that info in easy to find locations. Some casinos do have them at easy to find places. Others have them in hard to find places. Some do not have any RTP info. But they will. If they do not want to break UKGC guidelines!
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1. I never said they were I was just pointing out that the pattern could look the same as random.
2. If I had, and I cannot confirm or deny I do, I would not be able to post evidence for legal reasons.
3. You are 100% correct it is never going to end, there will always be people of both sides commenting.
4. However if you really want to open a can of worms the key word is underlined in the pic attached, your welcome to comment and or draw your own conclusions to its meaning.
5. Why do not all games have this statement in the Paytable / help screens? Again you can draw your own conclusions.
6. The biggest reason we are going round in circles with this and other inconsistency's, is despite all the recent improvements there is still a complete lack of transparency in many issues raised by players.
Just my opinion
View attachment 88933
Where are those terms from?.
I'm guessing they meant to put capped at 250K.
That says 25 million
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- Feb 24, 2018
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- Lincoln UK
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- Jan 9, 2013
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Speaking of 3 in 100 or 1 in 500 spins producing bonus rounds..
Anyone managed multiple in a row?
Might of happened twice, but I've definately had DOA produce 3 bonses from 3 spins in a row. It did not mean the slot was "hot" though. They each paid crap and i went on to bust :..(
Anyone beat 3?
Anyone managed multiple in a row?
Might of happened twice, but I've definately had DOA produce 3 bonses from 3 spins in a row. It did not mean the slot was "hot" though. They each paid crap and i went on to bust :..(
Anyone beat 3?
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
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- the land of snow and maple syrup
maybe 3 in a dozen spins been my best...a couple back to back.
Suagr pop 2 has granted some back to backs last night, though theyre pretty easy to hit
slotter999
Dormant account
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- Oct 22, 2013
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- UK
That's actually some pretty long odds. 152 X 152 X 152 = 3,511,808.
To beat your 3 back to backs by 1 would be 1 in 533,794,816. Not impossible but very unlikely.
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- Jan 8, 2016
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Thats actually wrong because the odds you state are for getting 3 bonuses in a row starting on a specific spin
Whereas the odds of getting 3 bonuses in a row at any time is just 152x152 because you already have the 1st bonus
Like the odds you worked out are true if you say "ok this spin I am now going to get a bonus followed by 2 more bonuses in the following 2 spins" but generally people aren't talking about that . In a way getting back to back bonuses is no less likely than getting a bonus on your 1st spin
Whereas the odds of getting 3 bonuses in a row at any time is just 152x152 because you already have the 1st bonus
Like the odds you worked out are true if you say "ok this spin I am now going to get a bonus followed by 2 more bonuses in the following 2 spins" but generally people aren't talking about that . In a way getting back to back bonuses is no less likely than getting a bonus on your 1st spin
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- Feb 24, 2018
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- Lincoln UK
Can i ask how you know the exact chance of this being 152 to power 3 ? Just curious.
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- Jun 6, 2013
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- RJVille UK
Well that would also depend on the slot. Take for example Wild North. I have had 3 bonuses back to back to back on that a few times. As for other slots I have had back to back meaning 2 bonuses in a row hundreds of times. And If you count 3 bonuses within 10 spins then I have had 3 bonuses within 10 spins about 20 times ish. Just a guestimate though.
Like when a slot is in a streaky mood all that is is just you was lucky enough to play that slot at the time the RNG is playing well giving bonus after bonus. It happens a lot on various slots. Totally Random.
Like when a slot is in a streaky mood all that is is just you was lucky enough to play that slot at the time the RNG is playing well giving bonus after bonus. It happens a lot on various slots. Totally Random.
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- Apr 27, 2009
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- the land of snow and maple syrup
It's like ice ages.
They happen around every 100 thousand years
but because we're 'due' one, doesnt mean itll happen tomrorrow because its been that time since the last.
It could arrive back to back, it could be one is the front of 100k and the next, the end of, so nearly 200k years. Theyre guesstimates and averages.
So if a bonus round is projected about once every 100 spins, you could have 99 dead spins and 2 back to back
or one on the first spin, and one 199 later....
but because its AVERAGES, it could be 3 in 10 spins, 2 in 500 spins etc.
They happen around every 100 thousand years
but because we're 'due' one, doesnt mean itll happen tomrorrow because its been that time since the last.
It could arrive back to back, it could be one is the front of 100k and the next, the end of, so nearly 200k years. Theyre guesstimates and averages.
So if a bonus round is projected about once every 100 spins, you could have 99 dead spins and 2 back to back
or one on the first spin, and one 199 later....
but because its AVERAGES, it could be 3 in 10 spins, 2 in 500 spins etc.
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- Mar 29, 2013
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- United Kingdom
SlotTracker - community stats (or yours if you play enough games) give you the bonus frequency on any game you play.
slotter999
Dormant account
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- UK
This is one of the better known slots so that's just fairly common knowledge. But netent also publish the game odds for their slots in a game sheet so that's also straight from the horses mouth so to speak.
The odds of hitting a bonus are roughly 1 in 152. What do you work out the odds of hitting three bonuses in a row to be?
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- London
You definately have a your own unchanging unique ID that stays with you for Microgaming (per casino). Thats how they can track your play on “Playcheck” from inception.
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- Jan 8, 2016
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- England
Well if someone says I got 3 bonuses in a row they mean to say they got one bonus then they got another then another . But how many spins to get the first bonus ? See the fact is the probability of them getting the first bonus was not 1 in 152 because they probably did much more than 1 spin to get the first bonus
The probability you stated is correct if the player literally does ONLY one spin and gets the bonus first spin followed by 2 more bonuses on the next 2 spins .. but that is not what people generally refer to when they say they got back to back bonuses
Effectively the probability of them getting the first bonus is 1 because they won't be talking about getting back to back bonuses if they don't get any bonus at all
The probability you stated is correct if the player literally does ONLY one spin and gets the bonus first spin followed by 2 more bonuses on the next 2 spins .. but that is not what people generally refer to when they say they got back to back bonuses
Effectively the probability of them getting the first bonus is 1 because they won't be talking about getting back to back bonuses if they don't get any bonus at all
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2013
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- Kent
Damn, i dont know the odds but ive hit 40 lots wild lines and 5 scatters on doa - to give a very rough idea of how many spins ive played (all on min bet, like a boss) .. so it was bound to happen at some point
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- Feb 24, 2018
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- Lincoln UK
Yeah i would have said the same as you then with 152x152x152 = 3.5mil to 1 then as the odds of getting 3 in a row
I signed up for slottracker and it did not track my slots, even playing in Chrome with the add-on active.
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It doesn't track every single casino - make sure it's on the list of sites they track, and also not every provider is covered yet...
It's a very complex system, as every game is different, and every casino is different...
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- Jul 4, 2016
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- Uk and France
Random is random is random - NOT. Random does not exist. Even Ecogra does not support your so called maths, facts and game mechanics. And rightly so, they don't want to be sued. Most RNG's used in online gaming are primitive and outdated compared to those used in other industries. And even those used in the Scientific and Military community have their limitations.
Fact one: With random number generators (RNGs), there are no guarantees. We can only predict what will happen in practice.
This is not because the word ''randomness'' is involved but because the finitely many random numbers we produce and their transformed variates cannot fit every imaginable distribution well enough.
Every generator has its regularities which, ocassionally, may become deficiencies. Hence, in a given application, even reliable generators may fail
Fact two: Although there are no guarantees, there are mathematical safety-measures against wrong simulation results due to inappropriate random number generators.
"Statistically Acceptable" is subjective to the test used, the testing house qualifications, and the governing body/'jurisdiction. In other words the RNG, as with the RTP, and the game structure itself only have to be deemed FAIR. The UKGC is by far the fairest towards the player. The software provider in conjunction with the casinos and that particular jurisdiction and it's testing facilities are the ones that decide what fair is. Not the player, the player's only vote is with his money.
More surprisingly "Accredited sites are subject to regular monitoring of their operation and whilst eCOGRA makes its best endeavours, no representation of warrenty is given that the operation of any games at any accredited site is at "ALL" time in accordance with eGAP requirements" . . . and it goes on to say it doesnot take any responsibility whatsoever of any site they approved of and tested.
So it would be much wiser and beneficial to this site and Bryan if affiliate gatekeeper members were more truthful and just state the UKGC does the utmost to see the player based in the UK gets a fair gaming experience. And I believe they do. This cannot be said of all jurisdictions
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Re highlighted part, jackpots are typically held in the strongest currency (e.g. GBP / £). When you win a jackpot, you are paid in the currency you play in (e.g. USD / $). When a jackpot is won, the jackpot total is then reduced by the value of the currency the winning player plays in.
This thread (from 2012) also answers the same question
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i've always wondered too, as when you go into a casino you can see what's going on in front of you. For some reason that always adds more security even though a lot of scammers to it right under your nose. If a casino doesnt have the right RTP i'd hope webmasters like the meister would put them into rogue straight away anyway.
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We use the Mersenne-Twister (similar version to the SFMT-variant) in most games. It's accepted by all the homologation laboratories, including those for the strictest of jurisdictions. So yes, it's not TRULY random, but it's more than random enough to be unbeatable and pass all testing criteria. As you say, it's all about "fairness" and making sure the games are not predictable (unlike some famous Novo machines).
However, this statement "Even Ecogra does not support your so called maths, facts and game mechanics." makes little sense, so feel free to expand on how eCogra don't support it. If you're stating that they will not guarantee the maths are fair, well of course they won't - they are not GLI or NMI or BMI and have not undertaken the tests required to prove it.
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Ecogra's so called "white papers" can be found on line, confidential of course and I am not at liberty to link or state them according to forum rules here. But I am sure with a Tor browser you will find what I am referring to with little trouble. But people make too big a deal about the RNG, when the game structure can be changed on a whim. Leading to a bonus round that constitutes 30 percent of the RTP, and a reload later of the same game accounting for say 70 percent and base game only 30 etc. this could leave anyone blaming the RTG which is working perfectly random so to speak. Changing the virtual Reel (par sheet) has a greater impact on players then even the RTP or RNG, as bonus rounds have become an anticipated (addicting) force in modern slots. And that ability to change constitutes a fairness which is very subjective. . . . . Regarding Ecogra's generally accepted practices (eGAP) Nothing I stated above would be contrary to it, The closest would be under software development and maintenance ; 9.37 . .Reports shall be generated for all changes made to game parameters. This is vague and does not discount any changes.
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Except games don't change pay sheets on a whim... So that's just pure rubbish and tin foil hattery
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- Uk and France
2a
PAR Sheets , I think you mean, and RTG do it routinely, pretty common, and it goes against no jurisdiction or governing body not do so. So I'll keep my woolly hat on if you don't mind.
Except games don't change pay sheets on a whim... So that's just pure rubbish and tin foil hattery
PAR Sheets , I think you mean, and RTG do it routinely, pretty common, and it goes against no jurisdiction or governing body not do so. So I'll keep my woolly hat on if you don't mind.
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You've previously quoted an eCORA white paper & then state RTG don't abide by their guidelines... RTG aren't accredited or approved by eCOGRA (see
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) or use their services for game approvals, so unless any Regulator their licensees are governed by Regulators that stipulate it, there's no reason why they would comply with eCOGRA.The RTG business model also allows for the use of their software in countries which other (arguably more reputable) providers avoid. A lot of that has to do with the legality of the activity. Read into that what you will, but I think this could be a reflection of their views on sticking to the rules.
Trance has previously stated, games don't change pay sheets on a whim - based on his experience and knowledge, I think it's safe to assume he's referring to games from reputable providers that steer clear of black markets.
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Apart from RTG, who lets be honest operate all areas of their business in very grey areas of legality, have you got any evidence of other providers/casinos doing this? Even from hearsay?
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- Jul 4, 2016
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- Uk and France
Unless the UKGC has changed their rules again, it goes against NO software provider to have a multiple of game engines for the same game, and matter of fact they do. Many software providers have multiple game engines with regard to RTP for different jurisdictions and as such have multiple game engines of the same game with the same RTP. Each one has to reported and approved as an individual game nonetheless But to the end user the customer, the name of the game and interface is neither changed or displayed any different, except in the case of RTP requirement to display by a jurisdiction. A different game engine with the same RTP, need not have a different pay table, That virtual reel stop will still show a physical reel stop matching the exact payout as before. What percentage of the game engine that particular virtual stop plays in the games overall RTP will not be available to the user. and never will. Unless they are privy to that particular par sheet of the particular game engine being loaded at that particular time.
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There are firms that employ such architecture which account for this in todays multiplatform casinos. And state openly so, if the software provider offers them and the casino wishes to incorporate them.
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- Mar 29, 2013
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i can't work out if you simply don't know what you're talking about, you have experience in some grey / black markets where (and i know they exist) some software can do this (like RTG), or you are just totally misinformed.
However there are no games providers I'm aware of that produce multiple variants of the same RTP. It's pointless, costly and has no benefit. Random games swing enough and go hot and cold just purely because of random. They don't need to do this.
There are without question places where illegal, dodgy software is used. And I wouldn't like to comment on what they get up to... but for all the major providers it just simply isn't worth it.
Just on RTG - Why do you think RTG have their games badged as Blueprint in the UK online sector...it's because they simple can't get a UK licence.
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- Joined
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That's for you to decide, it's neither here or there for me. What is - is what is. Many that are employed in this business are on a need to know basis, and rightly so. Anyway good luck, nearly the 17 and time for a drink. I enjoyed the conversation, but the weekend is now here.
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