is a mail from a casinomanager binding ?

[jimmylindholm]

hey! brian.
i got your help earlier and may now need it again,
had some problems with casinoking with bonuswagering and they reversed their desition, got a mail from a casinomanager called harvey saying that they had failed in their rutines and that they now had changed their oppinion and put my money back on my account with their blessing hoping that this would never occur again with any other player!telling me that i can withdraw whenever i want this time

then everything was solved i thaught, but i recieved a phonecall from a man called Sam fisher, saying that harvey,
who reversed the desition didnt had the authority to do that!
and sam fisher wants to make a settlement of 5000 usd to se the matter concluded..

then my question is if that mail are binding them to that commitment/promise to me ?
& how i best deal with this, the total amount on my account is 37000 usd
regards jimmy

 

[jetset]

Assuming this is true, whatever you do beware of telephone calls (the Hampton debacle should be an object lesson to every online gambler that the bottom feeders in this industry will do anything to avoid paying out)

Have you emailed *Harvey* back asking him to confirm that this *Sam Fisher* is a member of casino management?

If Fisher is a manager, and these facts are true then this is really unethical and downright dishonest behaviour - trying to wriggle out from under a debt by offering a way lesser amount in settlement.

CasinoKing belongs to (and these are other casinos in the group):

Intercontinental Online Gaming Ltd (IOG) (Playtech s/ware) new grouping Nov 2003-12-17

Royal Dice

Swiss (Scasino)

Casino King

Casino Las Vegas

Magic Box

Miss Bingo

 

[jimmylindholm]

i have recieved reply from others at the casino ,cause when i mailed theri marketing telling that a settlement is unfair after recieving a mail saying that the money is imne for free disposal..
i asked them to forward my mail to mr fisher since i didnt had his mailadress,because i only talked to him on the phone..

 

[jimmylindholm]

by the way his name is max fisher! i was a litlle bit tired when i wrote this down

 

[sirius]

This group have tried to wriggle out of paying winners before. Did anyone see the ridiculously confusing terms they had before when they robbed a player of a few thousand dollars aftrer he played some roulette (he knew it didn't count towards wagering and wagered enough on other games)? The terms basically stated that the games didn't count towards wagering (like in most casinos) but somewhere else (pages down near the bottom), it mentioned they could void winnings for playing these games. At least now they say that in the next sentence or so, last time I looked at their terms.

Remember these used to be licensed with the Tropez Group under Global Interest Gaming Ltd. but the license expired in October 2002 and then a few months later they had separate licenses. I'm not sure if the ownership changed. I think got2bet has recently taken down his ads again for the Tropez Group after I mentioned to him that they are not reputable.

Both groups have had similar problems recently and retroactively reclaimed bonuses and winnings (this is from the swiss group):

Before processing your withdrawal request we have noticed a pattern of bonus abuse in your game sessions.

Due to this we have subtracted the bonus money that was given to you and your winnings, processing only your original deposit.

We are truly sorry if there was any misunderstanding but we are obligated to follow the company's policy.

The following is a statement directly from our "Terms of Use":

"The Casino reserves the right to refuse or rescind the bonus for any reason including, but not restricted to, player abuse. In case of abuse, the Casino reserves the right to discontinue player's membership and to prevent the player from accessing the Casino in the future".

We apologize for any inconvenience caused.

Should you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact the Casino Las Vegas Support Team. We are available 24 Hours a day, 7 days a week.

With Best Regards,

xxxx
Casino Las Vegas.

see thread:

 

[sirius]

I think Casinomeister has just put them on the reputable list!

 

[sirius]

This just shows how shortsighted these casinos are. This guy is obviously a good customer and now he's won $37k they should be trying to make sure he comes back.

 

[spearmaster]

I think got2bet has recently taken down his ads again for the Tropez Group after I mentioned to him that they are not reputable.

Need you mention me or my site at every turn? Can you not stand up for yourself? Have to bid on my domainname in Adwords because you can't generate your own traffic?

I took them down for my own reasons, not because they are not reputable. Do NOT ever again make assumptions on my behalf, especially to further your own sense of importance.

 

[sirius]

So it is nothing to do with Bet2Gamble having the Tropez group in the sites to avoid list? I have got2bet in adwords but I only got 2 clicks (maybe from you) out of 213. casinomeister has 13 clicks from 759.

Isn't this a bit off topic? I just mentioned this because the ads disappeared from your site a couple of days afterwards.

 

[jimmylindholm]

doesnt anyone hve a good idea on how to go on with this?,to make them keep their written promise..
/Jimmy

 

[jetset]

Have they responded to your email checking on Max Fisher yet, Jimmy?

If not I would call them, ask for a supervisor and check that Fisher is a manager there (maybe he's the owner?) That will save Bryan time when he returns to work after the weekend, because I'm pretty sure he will take up this case for you if what you say regarding the circumstances is true.

Again - beware phone calls when you've made a good win.

Edited to add that I have referred the owners of Casino King to this thread.

 

[jimmylindholm]

i wrote to their marketing mailadress and asked them to forward my mail to max fisher and they did!
they aldso wrote the other day that they would take contackt with me on the phone.

 

[The Dude]

Before we get all riled up on this matter, let me get a few things straight here.

The player did not follow the terms and conditions of his bonus, but after a brief negotiation, the casino reversed their decision and agreed to pay this player anyway.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/casinoking-com.3564/?t=3564
Let's not lose sight of this, since already the player was in the wrong, and the casino agreed to pay - and this is not just peanuts but $20,800.

The player came back to the message board, gloating about the casino "giving up" and appeared (in my eyes) as truly ungrateful - unappreciative and a downright pain in the ass. Sorry jimmylindholm, but this is how you've behaved so far.

It appears that this has gone to a higher level of management, but what jimmylindholm hasn't mentioned is that there have been negotiations going on and offers being made.

If you are going to come to this forum and start complaining about whatever, lay all your cards on the table, not just a few. I don't believe you have been upfront with anyone here - especially me.

This just shows how shortsighted these casinos are. This guy is obviously a good customer and now he's won $37k they should be trying to make sure he comes back.

I disagree. This is a not a good customer. This is a player trying to screw over a casino.

 

[jpm]

What a scumbag! This guy is the reason all of us honest players get screwed over with these ridiculously high wagering requirements and banned games. The casino actually goes out of its way to make an exception for him more than once apparently, and he still tries to screw them over.

I hope you've banned him from the board forever Bryan.

 

[jetset]

The fact this player he did not reveal ALL the facts surrounding his complaint notwithstanding (and I condemn that, too) - is what he said true - that Max Fisher has reversed the earlier decision to give him 20Gs and is now offering 5G's in settlement?

 

[sirius]

I disagree. This is a not a good customer. This is a player trying to screw over a casino.

Casinomeister and JPM, you obviously have no clue what you are talking about here. The player played some games and won. He continued to play with his $20k when he could have withdrawn and now has $37k. He didn't screw the casino over at all. He knew which games didn't count towards the wagering requirements and had wagered enough on the allowed games. The problem is this casino and a few others have a policy of actually disallowing the games completely for no obvious reason. Don't they realise that players can win big in slots and video poker just as easily as roulette.

The player isn't gaining any advantage from playing these banned games at all!! There is no mathematical advantage from playing in the banned games rather than the allowed ones such as Video Poker or whatever else is allowed! Most casinos will not count these excluded games from the wagering requirements. There is absolutely no reason to ban them altogether. The player is at a disadvantage playing them because they don't count towards the wagering and will reduce his average profit. He can win big in the allowed games. Roulette has a huge house edge compared to many of the allowed games too but a low eddge wouldn't even change the fact that there is no advantage playing the banned games.

This player is owed all the money he has won. Did you even bother to read the past history I posted on this group?

Casinomeister, you think he has found some sort of loophole but he hasn't. He just tried to win big with his deposit. Of course, he wouldn't have played the excluded games if he thought they could void his winnings. Their terms used to be totally misleading on this point. From what I remember, he got a $25 bonus.

 

[The Dude]

Casinomeister and JPM, you obviously have no clue what you are talking about here. The player played some games and won. He continued to play with his $20k when he could have withdrawn and now has $37k. He didn't screw the casino over at all. He knew which games didn't count towards the wagering requirements and had wagered enough on the allowed games...
Casinomeister, you think he has found some sort of loophole but he hasn't....QUOTE]

Again, as stated before from the casino:

The player deposited $100 and received $100.

He played Blackjack at first which is not in accordance with our terms and won a little.

He then deposited again a few days later and received another bonus. This bonus allowed him to play Blackjack.

The next time he played which was a few days later he continued playing Blackjack and Roulette along with some Caribbean poker and slots.

He was told by online support that he played in excluded games but since he was new we would allow him to wager in allowed games until he satisfied the wagering the amount was about $780 required.

He has not yet satisfied the first deposit bonus terms but we were happy to allow him to play on allowed games. He was told Blackjack, Roulette, Baccarat and Craps were excluded.

He then went on to play some Blackjack Switch and a bit more Caribbean poker and some slots. However each time he lost a little he would replenish his account with some sizeable even shot bets on Roulette and play some Blackjack. He was basically interspersing his games with Roulette and Blackjack, perhaps hoping it would go unnoticed within his allowed game play.

He then continued playing big even shots on Roulette in later sessions until he finished on $21000.

We have checked at least a half a dozen times with the auditing dept to see whether there was any way we have made any kind of mistake in calculating his account wagering as I wanted to be 110% clear that the action we were taking was justified. We sympathies with him as it is very unpleasant situation. We did our utmost to try and help him at first, but he did not listen and at the end of the day we could nothing more for him.

Sirius, I have a clue. This is not a good customer/player. He sucks. (sorry jimmylindholm, but that's my honest opinion of your patronage). If I were running the casino, I would boot the guy just for being a pain in the ass.

 

[sirius]

He later said that wasn't totally correct and he deposited $100 and got the $100 bonus and lost it all in ten minutes. Then minutes later he deposited another $100 and got another $25 bonus (not sure if he knew what it was for). You also seemed to think he didn't know what the wagering requirements were but he knew about them and what he needed to do on the allowed games.

He read the terms and knew which games were excluded from the wagering requirements but most casinos don't have the ridiculous rule of banning them completely! Normally, they just don't count toward the wagering. You seem to think he did something to gain an advantage playing these excluded games! They don't count towards the wagering requirement so every bet he makes on these excluded games gives the casino more profit on average (they all have a house advantage, correct?).

Live Chat told him what the extra amount was that he needed to play in the allowed games and he knew it already They didn't say they could void his winnings later! They knew he had played the excluded games and didn't say to him he had no chance now of winning!

From what I udnerstand, he got his 20k back after the casino did the right thing, hoping he was going to be a good customer. He then went up to 32k (he could have withdrawn the 20k). He risked a lot and even carried on playing to 37k. Now the casino has changed their minds and don't care if he is a good customer because he has won too much.

 

[hhcfreebie]

From the limited information I read here, I don't see anything qualfiy the player to be a terrbile customer.
From a casino point of view, a good customer is those who play a lot, not necessarily those who loose a lot. In the land base casino the manager actually welcome the winners to come back and play more as long as they are not counting cards etc.
There is no advantage to gain whatsoever from online casinos. No matter what he bet, be it even shot on roulette, or progressive bet on BJ the casino always have the advantage.
If he had using bonuses, it would be okay for casino to void his bonus because he played the excluded games. To void his winning just because he played the excluded games is a little too hard, even though it's stated on their T & C.
Maybe this guy has a smart mouth or bad attitude. Like I said I don't see the whole picture so it's just my 2 cents.

 

[jimmylindholm]

i have not trying to hide anything since there are clear what has happened!
just tryed to shortened a long story a bit and bryan had bad day or short temper the other week, thinking i was gloating or making fun of the casino!,read my previous thread for those might be intrested,
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/casinoking-com.3564/?t=3564
.........................................
gonna try to explain the story agin..

played for first time ever at a onlinecasino (casinoking.com)
deposited 100 usd lost in 10 minutes deposited another 100 & recived a bonus of 25 dollars.
placed my bets on roulette,black jack & carribean stud poker..
got up to the amount of 500 usd went to cashier to make a withdrawal, got a mail back that i havent wagered enoug and they put the money back on my account!
didnt now anything about wageringrequirements before this and looked it up!,no problem at all understanding tyheir terms and condition!
keps playing to fulfill wagering..
this time mailing their online support to find how much is left to wager,gets in responce 780 usd, nothing else is said by their chat support..

plays on a while switchng these 3 games and starts to play casinowar for maximum bet to quiklky fulfill requirements..
goes to onlinesupport again & they telling me to call their support instead..

call them and asking same thing again!-how much is left to wager ...
gets the response that i have wagered enough on my allowed cardgames,asking them to be absolutley clear about this if that means that i can cash out without any problems now, gets a clearly yes ...
still nothing else is said from there side about not fulfilling correcktly since i swithing allowed games with not allowed..

makes a withdrawal of 21000 usd.
after 4 days i, gets a mail from harvey that i havent fullfilled me requirements and therefore they cleared my account and putted my initial deposit of 200 usd back on my visacard..
contacts casinomeister at this point asking for help.
after a week of mailing back and forth and i recievin a mail where thay revesring their desition and puts 20800 back on the account wiashing me good luck hoping that this will never occur again with any other player, they explayns that i havent played correckly and since they failed in their rutines not preventing this by telling me when they had the chanse several times the shows that this proves them to be a trustworthy company..
writes back in the forum with the healine- they have now given up..
and that i won futher more than 10000 usd.
thiss pisses bryan of and saying that i am showing very low appretiation (sorry for bad spelling here)...
that wasnt my intention! replies to forumreaders & bryan with a sorry if someone took it the wrong way..

Aldso excuses myself if anyone took my thread the wrong way..

But the story goes on!
2 days after this mail fr harvey,

my homephone calls!, its a guy calling himself max fisher,
and he wants to offer me a settlement!,i then tells him that i recived a mail the other the from "harvey" who claiming himself being a casinomanager and that he said its ok for me to do as i please with my money..

he says something about that he is harveys boss keps eading fr a script? saying he can not allowe a withdrawal on this games..

says thanks but no thanks since i think they are binde to their written commitment saying its my money since they failed their rutines and im gonna look it up he has now called me 2 times again with same offer..
(says no every time)
then i recived a mail from their marketing manager asking me to confirm that i will accept the settlement???....

Does this sound like a good behaviour from a company bryan?

i have now contacted antiguaoffshoregaming commision and filed a complaint regarding this !
even mailed to some attorneys overloking this matter to se if they can help me since i belive bryan think im a stupid,ungrateful,bad, etc player
and wont bother himself more than calling me things in this thread..

dont know whats gonna happen !,maybe they will offer a better settlement or not,but im pretty sure that with their behavior towards players i dont belive they would offer a settlement if they could avoid paying a single cent...

regards /"bad boy" jimmy :/

 

[jpm]

Ok, my apologies for calling jimmylindholm a scumbag. That was a bit rash in retrospect. That being said, this is how I see it:

The way Bryan has explained it after hearing from both sides, it sounds as though he was scamming them by continuing to play the banned games after being told which ones they were. Its hard to tell whether or not this was explained clearly or directly to him. According to the T&C though, they'd have the right to disallow his winnings & bonus in this case (a very standard clause in most casino's T&C these days). It seems like the casino manager was being benevolent in allowing him to continue to play and then cash out his massive win, but then apparently upper management (owner perhaps ??) overruled that and offered a compromise settlement.

Jimmylindholm doesn't like that idea since he'd be losing ~25K, and who wouldn't dislike that? But if the T&C says they can void the winnings under these circumstances, then they've kinda got you over a barrel. I think if I were in his shoes, I'd counter offer to settle for half and take the money & run.

I agree that it is a ridiculous rule making these banned completely as opposed to just discounting the wagering done on these games. Obviously they are herding players to the games that are more difficult to meet wagering requirements while playing. With craps, roulette & baccarat, you could easily meet w/r with even money bets (albeit with slight risk, assuming a single 0 wheel and french rules for roulette, 5% commission on baccarat, and the various craps rolls on the bones. My choice would be baccarat even money bets I think) and I think you would have a slight, perceived advantage on a couple of these games. For instance a pattern of numerous black numbers coming up on roulette while playing even money bets, could persuade you to believe red will be next up and you could make a good sized bet on red and double up quick if you're right. I know, there's no guarantee that it would happen that way, but sooner or later the pattern has to reverse, and I know I've bet on that many times and been rewarded more often than not. That's why I believe they are banned rather than just discounted from w/r.

 

[jetset]

So, is this settlement you write about from Max Fisher the $5 000 you mentioned earlier? They allgedly owe you $37 000 and they're offering to settle for $5K??

And you have emails to prove this?

 

[The Dude]

Well, from what I am hearing, I am standing firm by my opinion that this dude is a pain in the ass. Here's why.

He has not explained everything to the forum members, giving this a spin of an evil casino doing an evil deed.

Apparently, the player racked up his winnings to $33,000 within hours of having his winnings reinstated and demanded that his account be closed. (real good customer, eh?) He then started seriously complaining about the casino's terms and conditions:

"If you have played at the Casino for less than 6 months and wish to withdraw winnings totalling $20,000 or more then you will only be permitted to withdraw the money in installments of $5000 per month."

This did not make the "customer" happy, so he emailed the casino back with a counter offer which I pressume is being considered. But maybe not since he's pissed a lot of people off.

Sooo people, before some of you start jumping to conclusions, please take into consideration that you don't have the full picture. Especially with new posters who jump into this forum feet first with some casino complaint entitled "casinoking.com = criminals"

 

[jetset]

I don't think anyone is jumping to conclusions here, Bryan - it is simply a case of giving the poster the fair hearing for which Casinomeister has always been respected, and continues to be so.

But your explanation of the $5 000 rule at Casino King.com goes to clarifying this *settlement* aspect which was worrying me somewhat.

 

[jimmylindholm]

i have every mail saved including the ine from "harvey" where he said it was my money!

"If you have played at the Casino for less than 6 months and wish to withdraw winnings totalling $20,000 or more then you will only be permitted to withdraw the money in installments of $5000 per month."
This did not make the "customer" happy, so he emailed the casino back with a counter offer which I pressume is being considered. But maybe not since he's pissed a lot of people off.

bryan your way off here!!!

i belive i would be the first to know if i have mailed the casino an offer... my following mail after iwas explained on how withdrawals are being made! only asked them how long am i seen as a new member? 6 month i got told & if there is any way around that..!
so plz stop making things up that are not true !

 

[jimmylindholm]

this is every mailcorrespondance starting from bottom of this post!
starting with harveys mai!
does any of this mail shows that im am bad attitude or ungrateful i someway?
start reading from bottom ( i copied everything fr my hotmail) so sorry if this seems kind of messy..



Dear Jimmy,

Thank you for choosing Casino King.

Max Fisher informed us that he contacted you concerning your withdrawal .

Can you please confirm if you will accept the $5000 settlement so we can process
the amount and send it out.

We are looking forward to your response so this matter can be concluded as soon
as possible.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Should you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact the
Casino King Support Team. We are available 24 Hours a day, 7 days a week.

With Best Regards,

Lisa

Casino King


E-mail: [email protected]
Toll Free: 1-866-241-3103
International: 1-268-481-2398
Toll Free Fax: 1-866-241-3106
Fax: 1-268-481-2327
Casino King






Hi Jimmy,

We can only process the $5000 and leave the rest of the money in pending
withdrawals.
On each month at the same date you will get the next $5000.

Regards
Harvey

-----Original Message-----
From: JIMMY LINDHOLM [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 6:06 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Casino King )

hi again sorry for my bad understanding in english!
i called the support and got the same answer but its easyer to
understand
when its written!
i canselled the withdrawal & making a new one of 5000 usd..
thinking it would be easyer for your company.

but i will now make a new one of the moneythats left on the account..

can u make it impossible for me to retrive the money once the withdrawal
is
made plz..

i will not risk loosing it all..

only deposit on my visacard when i want to play again.
regards jimmy

>From: "Casino King Marketing" <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: <[email protected]>
>To: "'JIMMY LINDHOLM'" <[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: Casino King )
>Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:08:33 +0200
>
>Hi Jimmy,
>
>You have to be with us for more than 6 months to receive a maximum of
>$10000 per month on withdrawals.
>Players that have been with us for less than 6 months and have won more
>than $20000 receive the money in installments of $5000 per month.
>
>There is no way around this unfortunately.
>The full withdrawal will be processed in due time but payment will be
in
>$5000 monthly increments.
>
>Regards
>Harvey
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: JIMMY LINDHOLM [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 3:22 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: Casino King )
>
>how long am i a new member? then my withdrawal would be rejected again
>:/
>made a witdraw at my whole account of 32073 usd..
>is there any way around that ?so i can recive the whole amount ?
>/Jimmy
>
>
>
> >From: "Casino King Marketing" <[email protected]>
> >Reply-To: <[email protected]>
> >To: "'JIMMY LINDHOLM'" <[email protected]>
> >Subject: RE: Casino King )
> >Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:11:01 +0200
> >
> >Hi Jimmy,
> >
> >I understand you were not intentionally trying to defraud us and we
in
> >turn did our best for you.
> >
> >There should not be any problems with the withdrawal.
> >I am waiting for the auditing dept to get back to me.
> >
> >The Casino maximum withdrawal for new members is $5000 per month so
if
> >all goes smoothly you should receive the first installment soon.
> >The finance department will contact you shortly with details on your
> >withdrawal and how it will be processed.
> >
> >Well done on your wins and I look forward to seeing you at the Casino
> >again soon.
> >
> >Regards
> >Harvey
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: JIMMY LINDHOLM [mailto:[email protected]]
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 1:54 PM
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: RE: Casino King )
> >
> >
> >thanks thanks & thanks again!
> >i was never trying to fraud u on anyway just a new player who thinks
> >your
> >behaviour was very unfair..
> >played a little before i went to cashier this time ,but this time
there
> >will
> >hopfully be no problems making a withdrawal..
> >regards jimmy
> >
> > >From: "Casino King Marketing" <[email protected]>
> > >Reply-To: <[email protected]>
> > >To: "'JIMMY LINDHOLM'" <[email protected]>
> > >Subject: Casino King
> > >Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 11:01:06 +0200
> > >
> > >Hi Jimmy,
> > >
> > >I am the manager at Casino King and after a stringent review of
your
> > >account we would not normally reverse our decision.
> > >We do not usually allow withdrawals at all if any bonus wagering
has
> > >been on roulette, irrespective of any allowed games being played.
> > >
> > >I have, however, decided that since the chat operator allowed you
to
> > >wager on allowed games to fulfill the wagering we have an
obligation
>to
> > >you, even though it went against our terms. We certainly hold true
to
> > >our statements, whether verbally or through email or online chat.
> > >
> > >We strive to be honest and trustworthy and our priority is treating
>all
> > >our members fairly. I have requested that the balance of $20800 be
> > >returned to your account and the withdrawal to be processed.
> > >
> > >I am sorry that this episode ever occurred and I hope this never
>occurs
> > >again with any of our players.
> > >
> > >All the Casino King staff have been made aware of this situation
and
>to
> > >do everything in their power to ensure will not happen again.
> > >
> > >Even though this has been an unpleasant experience I do hope you
> > >continue playing at the Casino as I am certain this proves you will
>not
> > >find a better online casino giving you the best service possible.
> > >
> > >If you need anything at all please feel free to contact me.
> > >
> > >Regards
> > >Harvey
> > >

 

[The Dude]

Okay, sorry -- you don't suck. I apologize. You have been catching me on some "off" days.

There seems to be some correspondance missing. What happened since the 18th? By reading this I understand that they are still paying you $5000 a month.

Where does it state anywhere that they are not paying you in full? Or was this done over the phone?

 

[jetset]

That last email from *Lisa* sounds a little ambiguous and just in case they try the "full and final settlement" caveat I would want to clarify that they have no problem with the 37K - they just intend to spread the payments out at 5K a month as per their rules.

If they do that, and continue to pay you the 5g's a month until you have received your 37K then they are enforcing their rules on payouts for newbies (as bitter as those may be to accept) and you probably have to just chew on it.

But this sort of element in the T&C's wouldn't exactly encourage me to gamble at this group again!

 

[sirius]

What this player said about not reading the terms and conditions at first (and not knowing about wagering requirements and banned games) is typical and the casinos seem to be able to void winnings whenever they feel like it.

This casino group didn't pay a few thousand dollar win to someone playing some roulette even though he still met the wagering requirements in the allowed games. At the time the terms were extremely misleading (it just stated at the start that the games didn't count towards the required amount needed to wager but much later in the terms it said winnings could be voided). Now it seems to say winnings could be voided near the beginning of the terms too but it is still slightly misleading. If you look at most casino terms, they don't ban these games completely. It gives the casino the excuse not to pay winners and keep deposits of losers because they know most players who first join will lose anyway and even those who don't would probably not have undertood they couldn't play roulette or blackjack at all or whatever the banned games are.

Did anyone read the link to more recent problems with this group?

The player wasn't trying to scam the casino at all! He can't gain from playing the banned games because they don't count towards the requirements (they still have a house edge which will lower his bankroll on average) and he still needs to play enough in the allowed games.

 

[jimmylindholm]

Okay, sorry -- you don't suck. I apologize. You have been catching me on some "off" days.

There seems to be some correspondance missing. What happened since the 18th? By reading this I understand that they are still paying you $5000 a month.

Where does it state anywhere that they are not paying you in full? Or was this done over the phone?

................................
hi again! since the 18th (harveys mail) ,max fisher called me the 20th in the morning saying harvey did not have the authority to allowa full withdrawal,and that max fisher wouldnt allow withdrawal since i played on excluded games.. he doesnt care about harveys mail and just offers a settlement of 5000 in a one time payment and then we are even.
that last mail i got is basicly the only written proof i have that they wont payout..
he has called me 2 times more ,reading from the same written scrip (saying exactly same thing every time)
and i said that i dont belive that they are not binded to harveys mail since they doesnt have it written anywhere in there terms that any new agreements outside original are valid and i therefore think they are binded to fulfill this promise..

following does aldso worries me ,found it out just a last night !
accordeing to their website they have license based on antigua!
.....................................
Casino King is a fully licensed Online Casino, regulated by the government of Antigua. The Casino is regulated by state laws, under the supervision of the Director of Offshore Gaming. Kings' high level of security and integrity provide have earned us with the trust and loyalty of our clients. The Casino King we introduce is all state of the art, top quality systems, taking advantage of the latest Internet technologies in today's market. From high-end encryption methodologies to the latest Firewall products, our Casino systems are the most secure and advanced in existence.
............................................................
am i missing something due to this mailansver below !,i got last night from antigua offshoregamincommision


Frn: Sean K. Smith <[email protected]>
Skickat: den 1 mars 2004 20:36:04
Till: <[email protected]>
mne: Re: Investigation into complaint

| | | Inkorgen


Hello Mr. Lindholm

Thank you for contacting the Directorate of Offshore gaming, the regulatory body responsible for the oversight of all aspects of the offshore gaming industry in the jurisdiction of Antigua & Barbuda.

We regret to inform you that www.casinokings.com which is the website for I-5 Gaming Inc is no longer licensed within the jurisdiction of Antigua & Barbuda since the 26th June 2002. please see hyperlink Outdated URL (Invalid). They have relocated their operation elsewhere, which we have no contact details at this time.

Kind Regards

Sean Smith
Regulatory Enforcement Officer
www.antiguagaming.gov.ag
Tel: (268) 481-3300
Fax268) 481-3305


am i not understanding this right! casinoking states to be licensed at antigua on their website but havent been for over one and a half year ?


i really need help to solve this..
going to work now! se ya tonight you all..

 

[jetset]

"....he doesnt care about harveys mail and just offers a settlement of 5000 in a one time payment and then we are even."

I don't like the sound of that at all - that changes a compliance with the newbie payout rules to an attempt to shrink their obligation at the player's expense.

Whilst the continued claim to possess the *expired* Antiguan licensing is hardly an endorsement of this operation's honesty, I don't believe it significantly affects the issue, as judging by their recent record (Odds On etc) the Antiguan licensing jurisdiction and its enforcers is a bit of a non-active and unconcerned joke. They probably wouldn't have done a helluva lot anyway. At least you got a response from them!

 

[sirius]

casinokings.com seems to be a different casino

 

[The Dude]

jimmylindholm was referring to this fugly site

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Most all Playtech casinos are located in Antigua.

I'm still looking into this by the way.

 

[jpm]

Antigua doesn't do sh&t when it comes to their licensees, just ask anyone that was owed money from Atlantic Interbet when they folded. The only thing the govt cares about is getting the license fee, after that its pretty hands off. Sounds like another southern hemisphere country doesn't it?

Its sounding like Harvey may be just a manager there and this other mystery phone caller is maybe an owner/co-owner perhaps. I'd be curious to know if Harvey is still there if that is the case. I remember chatting with Harvey in live chat there before a few months ago, and he was a very pleasant and accomodating rep.

The problem is going to come down to this, is ignorance of the T&C an excuse that can be used to get a casino to pay out after you have done something that is explicitly prohibited in the T&C.

 

[jimmylindholm]

need advise what to do!
have been told by swedish attorneys that suing (bad spelling?)a offshore company is a dumb ,almost immpossible thing to do since it will probably take 5-10 years and that the attorney fee will be more than 37000 usd..

nice to be on your friendly side bryan!
can you give me any advise in what to do?
of course i could agree on a settlement of some kind, but not with a one feeling like beeing robbed!

i can absolutely show goodwill!,
but they gotta come upp with something better than that..
/Jimmy

 

[jimmylindholm]

jimmylindholm was referring to this fugly site

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Most all Playtech casinos are located in Antigua.

I'm still looking into this by the way.

this seems to be a missunderstandig from my side! this mail i recived

Hello Mr. Lindholm

Thank you for contacting the Directorate of Offshore gaming, the regulatory body responsible for the oversight of all aspects of the offshore gaming industry in the jurisdiction of Antigua & Barbuda.

We regret to inform you that www.casinokings.com which is the website for I-5 Gaming Inc is no longer licensed within the jurisdiction of Antigua & Barbuda since the 26th June 2002. please see hyperlink Outdated URL (Invalid). They have relocated their operation elsewhere, which we have no contact details at this time.

Kind Regards

Sean Smith
Regulatory Enforcement Officer
www.antiguagaming.gov.ag
Tel: (268) 481-3300
Fax268) 481-3305


didnt see that last s in the end of casinoking(s).. thaugt it was strange..
my bad
but i still need advise in what to do!,maybe you can help me getting a better settlement ?
/Jimmy

 

[The Dude]

I've expressed to the casino that they ought to stand by their original decision of paying you the installments of $5000. Hang in there.

 

[jyde]

Edit: Didn't see your last post Meister. Hope it will get straightened out.



I'm sorry - but I can't see where they say they will only pay you $5000 in total. I see a discussion of the $5000 a month because of their crappy terms.

Do you have an email saying they're prepared to steal the rest of your money?

Experienced players may have the opinion that Jimmy screwed up by not reading the terms - but try and forget your insight and experiences for a moment and pretend you're a new player that gambles online for the first time. I sure as hell didn't pay much attention to the terms and conditions the first time I gambled online. How is a new player supposed to know everything bonuses, banned vs. excluded games and wagering requirements? It's not like the banners and popups are focusing on the pretty complicated rules that can be found in both "T&C", "Rules and regulations" and sometimes in "FAQ". When I first gambled online I didn't even know what they meant by "wager". I'm not from an English speaking country and "wager" was not a word I've come across before.
My point is - onlinecasinos should relax for a moment when dealing with new players - instead of treating them like long time bonushustlers. I'm not sure what even happened in Jimmys case - but unless they're actually trying to settle his entire win for only $5K - it APPEARS they tried to be fair by not busting him totally for newbie mistakes.

Another thing: I would NEVER, EVER play at an online casino that will PAY me less in winnings pr. week or month than they will ACCEPT in deposits. If I can lose $5K a week I sure as hell would expect to be paid at least the same in winnings if I get lucky. $5K a month is a joke - no matter how long you've been a customer.

 

[jetset]

Jyde - I think the player is basing that assumption on this statement that was somewhat ambiguously contained in the email from Casinoking's *Lisa*

"Can you please confirm if you will accept the $5000 settlement so we can process the amount and send it out."

They will now presumably clarify their position to Bryan.

 

[jimmylindholm]

Edit: Didn't see your last post Meister. Hope it will get straightened out.



I'm sorry - but I can't see where they say they will only pay you $5000 in total. I see a discussion of the $5000 a month because of their crappy terms.

Do you have an email saying they're prepared to steal the rest of your money?

Experienced players may have the opinion that Jimmy screwed up by not reading the terms - but try and forget your insight and experiences for a moment and pretend you're a new player that gambles online for the first time. I sure as hell didn't pay much attention to the terms and conditions the first time I gambled online. How is a new player supposed to know everything bonuses, banned vs. excluded games and wagering requirements? It's not like the banners and popups are focusing on the pretty complicated rules that can be found in both "T&C", "Rules and regulations" and sometimes in "FAQ". When I first gambled online I didn't even know what they meant by "wager". I'm not from an English speaking country and "wager" was not a word I've come across before.
My point is - onlinecasinos should relax for a moment when dealing with new players - instead of treating them like long time bonushustlers. I'm not sure what even happened in Jimmys case - but unless they're actually trying to settle his entire win for only $5K - it APPEARS they tried to be fair by not busting him totally for newbie mistakes.

Another thing: I would NEVER, EVER play at an online casino that will PAY me less in winnings pr. week or month than they will ACCEPT in deposits. If I can lose $5K a week I sure as hell would expect to be paid at least the same in winnings if I get lucky. $5K a month is a joke - no matter how long you've been a customer.

this os the only written that they wants to settle,my withdrawal on 37k is still marked with "waiting" under transfer history
....................................................
Anml skrppost
Anml och sprra avsndare



Frn: Casino King <[email protected]>
Skickat: den 23 februari 2004 19:42:43
Till: [email protected]
mne: TRX0000226783 Casino King

| | | Inkorgen




Dear Jimmy,

Thank you for choosing Casino King.

Max Fisher informed us that he contacted you concerning your withdrawal .

Can you please confirm if you will accept the $5000 settlement so we can process
the amount and send it out.

We are looking forward to your response so this matter can be concluded as soon
as possible.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Should you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact the
Casino King Support Team. We are available 24 Hours a day, 7 days a week.

With Best Regards,

Lisa

Casino King

 

[jpm]

You write extremely well for someone from a non-english speaking country Jyde! Better than most here in the US in fact. Well done!

I believe that the discussion of a $5k settlement was in the phone call he received from the mysterious Max. I'm not sure though if that was a settlement offer or maybe a misunderstanding due to language barriers. I know english isn't jimmy's first language, and it probably isn't Max's either. In that case, there could have been an unintended miscommunication about whether the $5k was an installment or settlement. I'd be surprised if they did turn around and make it a $5k settlement. At that point, why wouldn't they just say you broke the rules and we're not giving you anything other than your deposit. It would generate just as much bad publicity as knocking it down by 80%.

I hope that's the explaination!

Edit: Didn't see your last post Meister. Hope it will get straightened out.



I'm sorry - but I can't see where they say they will only pay you $5000 in total. I see a discussion of the $5000 a month because of their crappy terms.

Do you have an email saying they're prepared to steal the rest of your money?

Experienced players may have the opinion that Jimmy screwed up by not reading the terms - but try and forget your insight and experiences for a moment and pretend you're a new player that gambles online for the first time. I sure as hell didn't pay much attention to the terms and conditions the first time I gambled online. How is a new player supposed to know everything bonuses, banned vs. excluded games and wagering requirements? It's not like the banners and popups are focusing on the pretty complicated rules that can be found in both "T&C", "Rules and regulations" and sometimes in "FAQ". When I first gambled online I didn't even know what they meant by "wager". I'm not from an English speaking country and "wager" was not a word I've come across before.
My point is - onlinecasinos should relax for a moment when dealing with new players - instead of treating them like long time bonushustlers. I'm not sure what even happened in Jimmys case - but unless they're actually trying to settle his entire win for only $5K - it APPEARS they tried to be fair by not busting him totally for newbie mistakes.

Another thing: I would NEVER, EVER play at an online casino that will PAY me less in winnings pr. week or month than they will ACCEPT in deposits. If I can lose $5K a week I sure as hell would expect to be paid at least the same in winnings if I get lucky. $5K a month is a joke - no matter how long you've been a customer.

 

[jimmylindholm]

You write extremely well for someone from a non-english speaking country Jyde! Better than most here in the US in fact. Well done!

I believe that the discussion of a $5k settlement was in the phone call he received from the mysterious Max. I'm not sure though if that was a settlement offer or maybe a misunderstanding due to language barriers. I know english isn't jimmy's first language, and it probably isn't Max's

he he youre right there english is not my first language
quit school over 10 years ago and since then i slowly forgots more every year..
but i am not misstaken that max fisher offers a settlement of 5k !, and he is not explaining that i can withdraw only 5k every month!

otherwise i would already have recived my first installment since my withdrawal is dated 18 february and is still marked with "waiting"
/jimmy

 

[jimmylindholm]

just got home after work tonight!
i really dont know how this is gonna end up bryan !,but it feels good to have you trying to help me out in this matter!
it feels something like fighting against a elephant with a drummstick placed in my left hand..

when i recived harveys mail i was probably in 7th heaven thinking they would payout as he said in my mail, and if they did !,
(thats almost 2 years pay for me)
that money would solve mostly of my problems, such as getting an apartment,furniture, pay debts,dentist and further more!

trying hard not to hope to much, since its "only" winnings not to be dissapointed if it goes totaly wrong ..

But why does they have such terms and condition? that mostly ends up with that new players like me, losing every thrust for a online casino!
,
if they put in a automaticly bonus when you deposit inform,
all new players what it means!, and explain when they contacting support to find out how much player have to wager!, & that if you place bets on allowed games every winnings will be voided!
absolutely silence from their side in such cases ,are fooling new players beliving they does everything as they should..

and if a casinomanager once has mailed a player that a decision is reversed due to failed rutines from their side.
dont call and change that decision even if it comes from a " higher"? casinoboss..

This post doesnt say anything special just a way for me to explain how this whole episode feels & thank meister for trying to help me..

godnight for this time /Jimmy

 

[jetset]

This certainly looks to me as if it was an attempt by Max Fisher to shrink the payout to Jimmy here. But let's see what "mysterious Max" has to say (and what he does) next.

In the meantime, this looks like a possible candidate for a casino caution until such time as this mess is sorted out - other players should not be placed at risk at the hands of a management that pulls stunts like this imo.

 

[jetset]

Just a note that we're talking about the Casino King.com casino here, a member of the:

Intercontinental Online Gaming Ltd (IOG) (Playtech s/ware) new grouping Nov 2003-12-17

Royal Dice

Swiss (Scasino)

Casino King

Casino Las Vegas

Magic Box

Miss Bingo

 

[jimmylindholm]

hi everybody!
max fisher just called again!
i still said that 5k is to low for a settlement ,he then asked what would be resonable for me!
i said lets meet half way..
settle me for half of the amount of my account..(17k)

that was still to high,i replied with 15000 ,so he counterd with 10! and i wanted to think it over
he will phone me tomorrow again..

Are you alive bryan?,this makes me confused,hope i didnt destroying anythin for you by talking to him when he calls,advise me plz
i thaugt that meeting them half way would be showing them goodwill from my side,im i unaprciathful wanting more than 10000..?

he keeps saying that a written promise is not legaly binding

/jimmy

 

[sirius]

You are owed the full amount.

 

[jimmylindholm]

You are owed the full amount.

i belived that but,time goes and i starts to wonder if i ever will get i single cent!
they wont listen to my words and i dont know how to make them either!my only hope is that casinomeister performs a miracle..
i dont belive they would hand me 10000 for showing goodwill if they could avoid it!
dont want to be taken for a knucklehead or ungrateful..he he
but its hard not to be upset when promises not are fulfilled
/Jimmy

 

[jetset]

This knucklehead is chiselling you! What sort of reputable casino owner tries to shrink a big win down to way less than half?

Damn, but this industry gets my blood pressure up sometimes.

I hope other players are reading this - it gives you an indication of what sort of outfit this really is. If they cannot afford to pay the guy at least make an instalment plan, not try to screw him out of what he is due.

You are the man who is owed and only you can make the call on what you are prepared to accept, Jimmy. Speaking personally I'm damned if I would budge from what is due but you may feel in the interests of closing this unpleasant experience that you should agree to a lesser amount.

But to offer you less than half is just plain adding grave insult to financial injury imo!

 

[jpm]

Obviously my hope that this was misunderstanding was wrong, since Max came back with a different settlement offer.

I wouldn't settle for less than half myself. I'd tell him that if he sends me half in one single payment (not 5k installments) that I would post that it has been settled and make no further negative posts about their casino. If they refuse, then I would tell him that I'll also start posting on the other portals like GoneGambling, WOL, etc (name them specifically) until I receive payment in full as was stated in the email from his casino.