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is a mail from a casinomanager binding ?

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by jimmylindholm, Feb 28, 2004.

  1. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    hey! brian.
    i got your help earlier and may now need it again,
    had some problems with casinoking with bonuswagering and they reversed their desition, got a mail from a casinomanager called harvey saying that they had failed in their rutines and that they now had changed their oppinion and put my money back on my account with their blessing hoping that this would never occur again with any other player!telling me that i can withdraw whenever i want this time

    then everything was solved i thaught, but i recieved a phonecall from a man called Sam fisher, saying that harvey,
    who reversed the desition didnt had the authority to do that!
    and sam fisher wants to make a settlement of 5000 usd to se the matter concluded..

    then my question is if that mail are binding them to that commitment/promise to me ?
    & how i best deal with this, the total amount on my account is 37000 usd
    regards jimmy
  2. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Assuming this is true, whatever you do beware of telephone calls (the Hampton debacle should be an object lesson to every online gambler that the bottom feeders in this industry will do anything to avoid paying out)

    Have you emailed *Harvey* back asking him to confirm that this *Sam Fisher* is a member of casino management?

    If Fisher is a manager, and these facts are true then this is really unethical and downright dishonest behaviour - trying to wriggle out from under a debt by offering a way lesser amount in settlement.

    CasinoKing belongs to (and these are other casinos in the group):

    Intercontinental Online Gaming Ltd (IOG) (Playtech s/ware) new grouping Nov 2003-12-17

    Royal Dice

    Swiss (Scasino)

    Casino King

    Casino Las Vegas

    Magic Box

    Miss Bingo
  3. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    i have recieved reply from others at the casino ,cause when i mailed theri marketing telling that a settlement is unfair after recieving a mail saying that the money is imne for free disposal..
    i asked them to forward my mail to mr fisher since i didnt had his mailadress,because i only talked to him on the phone..
  4. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    by the way his name is max fisher! i was a litlle bit tired when i wrote this down :)
  5. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    This group have tried to wriggle out of paying winners before. Did anyone see the ridiculously confusing terms they had before when they robbed a player of a few thousand dollars aftrer he played some roulette (he knew it didn't count towards wagering and wagered enough on other games)? The terms basically stated that the games didn't count towards wagering (like in most casinos) but somewhere else (pages down near the bottom), it mentioned they could void winnings for playing these games. At least now they say that in the next sentence or so, last time I looked at their terms.

    Remember these used to be licensed with the Tropez Group under Global Interest Gaming Ltd. but the license expired in October 2002 and then a few months later they had separate licenses. I'm not sure if the ownership changed. I think got2bet has recently taken down his ads again for the Tropez Group after I mentioned to him that they are not reputable.

    Both groups have had similar problems recently and retroactively reclaimed bonuses and winnings (this is from the swiss group):
    see thread: You must register/login in order to see the link.
  6. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    I think Casinomeister has just put them on the reputable list!
  7. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    This just shows how shortsighted these casinos are. This guy is obviously a good customer and now he's won $37k they should be trying to make sure he comes back.
  8. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Need you mention me or my site at every turn? Can you not stand up for yourself? Have to bid on my domainname in Adwords because you can't generate your own traffic?

    I took them down for my own reasons, not because they are not reputable. Do NOT ever again make assumptions on my behalf, especially to further your own sense of importance.
  9. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    So it is nothing to do with Bet2Gamble having the Tropez group in the sites to avoid list? I have got2bet in adwords but I only got 2 clicks (maybe from you) out of 213. casinomeister has 13 clicks from 759.

    Isn't this a bit off topic? I just mentioned this because the ads disappeared from your site a couple of days afterwards.
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2004
  10. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    doesnt anyone hve a good idea on how to go on with this?,to make them keep their written promise..
  11. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Have they responded to your email checking on Max Fisher yet, Jimmy?

    If not I would call them, ask for a supervisor and check that Fisher is a manager there (maybe he's the owner?) That will save Bryan time when he returns to work after the weekend, because I'm pretty sure he will take up this case for you if what you say regarding the circumstances is true.

    Again - beware phone calls when you've made a good win.

    Edited to add that I have referred the owners of Casino King to this thread.
  12. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    i wrote to their marketing mailadress and asked them to forward my mail to max fisher and they did!
    they aldso wrote the other day that they would take contackt with me on the phone.
  13. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Before we get all riled up on this matter, let me get a few things straight here.

    The player did not follow the terms and conditions of his bonus, but after a brief negotiation, the casino reversed their decision and agreed to pay this player anyway.
    Let's not lose sight of this, since already the player was in the wrong, and the casino agreed to pay - and this is not just peanuts but $20,800.

    The player came back to the message board, gloating about the casino "giving up" and appeared (in my eyes) as truly ungrateful - unappreciative and a downright pain in the ass. Sorry jimmylindholm, but this is how you've behaved so far.

    It appears that this has gone to a higher level of management, but what jimmylindholm hasn't mentioned is that there have been negotiations going on and offers being made.

    If you are going to come to this forum and start complaining about whatever, lay all your cards on the table, not just a few. I don't believe you have been upfront with anyone here - especially me.

    I disagree. This is a not a good customer. This is a player trying to screw over a casino.
  14. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    What a scumbag! This guy is the reason all of us honest players get screwed over with these ridiculously high wagering requirements and banned games. The casino actually goes out of its way to make an exception for him more than once apparently, and he still tries to screw them over.

    I hope you've banned him from the board forever Bryan.
  15. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    The fact this player he did not reveal ALL the facts surrounding his complaint notwithstanding (and I condemn that, too) - is what he said true - that Max Fisher has reversed the earlier decision to give him 20Gs and is now offering 5G's in settlement?
  16. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    Casinomeister and JPM, you obviously have no clue what you are talking about here. The player played some games and won. He continued to play with his $20k when he could have withdrawn and now has $37k. He didn't screw the casino over at all. He knew which games didn't count towards the wagering requirements and had wagered enough on the allowed games. The problem is this casino and a few others have a policy of actually disallowing the games completely for no obvious reason. Don't they realise that players can win big in slots and video poker just as easily as roulette.

    The player isn't gaining any advantage from playing these banned games at all!! There is no mathematical advantage from playing in the banned games rather than the allowed ones such as Video Poker or whatever else is allowed! Most casinos will not count these excluded games from the wagering requirements. There is absolutely no reason to ban them altogether. The player is at a disadvantage playing them because they don't count towards the wagering and will reduce his average profit. He can win big in the allowed games. Roulette has a huge house edge compared to many of the allowed games too but a low eddge wouldn't even change the fact that there is no advantage playing the banned games.

    This player is owed all the money he has won. Did you even bother to read the past history I posted on this group?

    Casinomeister, you think he has found some sort of loophole but he hasn't. He just tried to win big with his deposit. Of course, he wouldn't have played the excluded games if he thought they could void his winnings. Their terms used to be totally misleading on this point. From what I remember, he got a $25 bonus.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2004
  17. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

  18. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    He later said that wasn't totally correct and he deposited $100 and got the $100 bonus and lost it all in ten minutes. Then minutes later he deposited another $100 and got another $25 bonus (not sure if he knew what it was for). You also seemed to think he didn't know what the wagering requirements were but he knew about them and what he needed to do on the allowed games.

    He read the terms and knew which games were excluded from the wagering requirements but most casinos don't have the ridiculous rule of banning them completely! Normally, they just don't count toward the wagering. You seem to think he did something to gain an advantage playing these excluded games! They don't count towards the wagering requirement so every bet he makes on these excluded games gives the casino more profit on average (they all have a house advantage, correct?).

    Live Chat told him what the extra amount was that he needed to play in the allowed games and he knew it already They didn't say they could void his winnings later! They knew he had played the excluded games and didn't say to him he had no chance now of winning!

    From what I udnerstand, he got his 20k back after the casino did the right thing, hoping he was going to be a good customer. He then went up to 32k (he could have withdrawn the 20k). He risked a lot and even carried on playing to 37k. Now the casino has changed their minds and don't care if he is a good customer because he has won too much.
  19. hhcfreebie

    hhcfreebie Dormant account

    From the limited information I read here, I don't see anything qualfiy the player to be a terrbile customer.
    From a casino point of view, a good customer is those who play a lot, not necessarily those who loose a lot. In the land base casino the manager actually welcome the winners to come back and play more as long as they are not counting cards etc.
    There is no advantage to gain whatsoever from online casinos. No matter what he bet, be it even shot on roulette, or progressive bet on BJ the casino always have the advantage.
    If he had using bonuses, it would be okay for casino to void his bonus because he played the excluded games. To void his winning just because he played the excluded games is a little too hard, even though it's stated on their T & C.
    Maybe this guy has a smart mouth or bad attitude. Like I said I don't see the whole picture so it's just my 2 cents.
  20. jimmylindholm

    jimmylindholm Dormant account

    i have not trying to hide anything since there are clear what has happened!
    just tryed to shortened a long story a bit and bryan had bad day or short temper the other week, thinking i was gloating or making fun of the casino!,read my previous thread for those might be intrested,
    gonna try to explain the story agin..

    played for first time ever at a onlinecasino (casinoking.com)
    deposited 100 usd lost in 10 minutes deposited another 100 & recived a bonus of 25 dollars.
    placed my bets on roulette,black jack & carribean stud poker..
    got up to the amount of 500 usd went to cashier to make a withdrawal, got a mail back that i havent wagered enoug and they put the money back on my account!
    didnt now anything about wageringrequirements before this and looked it up!,no problem at all understanding tyheir terms and condition!
    keps playing to fulfill wagering..
    this time mailing their online support to find how much is left to wager,gets in responce 780 usd, nothing else is said by their chat support..

    plays on a while switchng these 3 games and starts to play casinowar for maximum bet to quiklky fulfill requirements..
    goes to onlinesupport again & they telling me to call their support instead..

    call them and asking same thing again!-how much is left to wager ...
    gets the response that i have wagered enough on my allowed cardgames,asking them to be absolutley clear about this if that means that i can cash out without any problems now, gets a clearly yes ...
    still nothing else is said from there side about not fulfilling correcktly since i swithing allowed games with not allowed..

    makes a withdrawal of 21000 usd.
    after 4 days i, gets a mail from harvey that i havent fullfilled me requirements and therefore they cleared my account and putted my initial deposit of 200 usd back on my visacard..
    contacts casinomeister at this point asking for help.
    after a week of mailing back and forth and i recievin a mail where thay revesring their desition and puts 20800 back on the account wiashing me good luck hoping that this will never occur again with any other player, they explayns that i havent played correckly and since they failed in their rutines not preventing this by telling me when they had the chanse several times the shows that this proves them to be a trustworthy company..
    writes back in the forum with the healine- they have now given up..
    and that i won futher more than 10000 usd.
    thiss pisses bryan of and saying that i am showing very low appretiation (sorry for bad spelling here)...
    that wasnt my intention! replies to forumreaders & bryan with a sorry if someone took it the wrong way..

    Aldso excuses myself if anyone took my thread the wrong way..

    But the story goes on!
    2 days after this mail fr harvey,

    my homephone calls!, its a guy calling himself max fisher,
    and he wants to offer me a settlement!,i then tells him that i recived a mail the other the from "harvey" who claiming himself being a casinomanager and that he said its ok for me to do as i please with my money..

    he says something about that he is harveys boss keps eading fr a script? saying he can not allowe a withdrawal on this games..

    says thanks but no thanks since i think they are binde to their written commitment saying its my money since they failed their rutines and im gonna look it up he has now called me 2 times again with same offer..
    (says no every time)
    then i recived a mail from their marketing manager asking me to confirm that i will accept the settlement???....

    Does this sound like a good behaviour from a company bryan?

    i have now contacted antiguaoffshoregaming commision and filed a complaint regarding this !
    even mailed to some attorneys overloking this matter to se if they can help me since i belive bryan think im a stupid,ungrateful,bad, etc player
    and wont bother himself more than calling me things in this thread..

    dont know whats gonna happen !,maybe they will offer a better settlement or not,but im pretty sure that with their behavior towards players i dont belive they would offer a settlement if they could avoid paying a single cent...

    regards /"bad boy" jimmy :/

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