is a mail from a casinomanager binding ?

[jimmylindholm]

hey! brian.
i got your help earlier and may now need it again,
had some problems with casinoking with bonuswagering and they reversed their desition, got a mail from a casinomanager called harvey saying that they had failed in their rutines and that they now had changed their oppinion and put my money back on my account with their blessing hoping that this would never occur again with any other player!telling me that i can withdraw whenever i want this time

then everything was solved i thaught, but i recieved a phonecall from a man called Sam fisher, saying that harvey,
who reversed the desition didnt had the authority to do that!
and sam fisher wants to make a settlement of 5000 usd to se the matter concluded..

then my question is if that mail are binding them to that commitment/promise to me ?
& how i best deal with this, the total amount on my account is 37000 usd
regards jimmy

 

[jetset]

Assuming this is true, whatever you do beware of telephone calls (the Hampton debacle should be an object lesson to every online gambler that the bottom feeders in this industry will do anything to avoid paying out)

Have you emailed *Harvey* back asking him to confirm that this *Sam Fisher* is a member of casino management?

If Fisher is a manager, and these facts are true then this is really unethical and downright dishonest behaviour - trying to wriggle out from under a debt by offering a way lesser amount in settlement.

CasinoKing belongs to (and these are other casinos in the group):

Intercontinental Online Gaming Ltd (IOG) (Playtech s/ware) new grouping Nov 2003-12-17

Royal Dice

Swiss (Scasino)

Casino King

Casino Las Vegas

Magic Box

Miss Bingo

 

[jimmylindholm]

i have recieved reply from others at the casino ,cause when i mailed theri marketing telling that a settlement is unfair after recieving a mail saying that the money is imne for free disposal..
i asked them to forward my mail to mr fisher since i didnt had his mailadress,because i only talked to him on the phone..

 

[jimmylindholm]

by the way his name is max fisher! i was a litlle bit tired when i wrote this down

 

[sirius]

This group have tried to wriggle out of paying winners before. Did anyone see the ridiculously confusing terms they had before when they robbed a player of a few thousand dollars aftrer he played some roulette (he knew it didn't count towards wagering and wagered enough on other games)? The terms basically stated that the games didn't count towards wagering (like in most casinos) but somewhere else (pages down near the bottom), it mentioned they could void winnings for playing these games. At least now they say that in the next sentence or so, last time I looked at their terms.

Remember these used to be licensed with the Tropez Group under Global Interest Gaming Ltd. but the license expired in October 2002 and then a few months later they had separate licenses. I'm not sure if the ownership changed. I think got2bet has recently taken down his ads again for the Tropez Group after I mentioned to him that they are not reputable.

Both groups have had similar problems recently and retroactively reclaimed bonuses and winnings (this is from the swiss group):

Before processing your withdrawal request we have noticed a pattern of bonus abuse in your game sessions.

Due to this we have subtracted the bonus money that was given to you and your winnings, processing only your original deposit.

We are truly sorry if there was any misunderstanding but we are obligated to follow the company's policy.

The following is a statement directly from our "Terms of Use":

"The Casino reserves the right to refuse or rescind the bonus for any reason including, but not restricted to, player abuse. In case of abuse, the Casino reserves the right to discontinue player's membership and to prevent the player from accessing the Casino in the future".

We apologize for any inconvenience caused.

Should you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact the Casino Las Vegas Support Team. We are available 24 Hours a day, 7 days a week.

With Best Regards,

xxxx
Casino Las Vegas.

see thread:

 

[sirius]

I think Casinomeister has just put them on the reputable list!

 

[sirius]

This just shows how shortsighted these casinos are. This guy is obviously a good customer and now he's won $37k they should be trying to make sure he comes back.

 

[spearmaster]

I think got2bet has recently taken down his ads again for the Tropez Group after I mentioned to him that they are not reputable.

Need you mention me or my site at every turn? Can you not stand up for yourself? Have to bid on my domainname in Adwords because you can't generate your own traffic?

I took them down for my own reasons, not because they are not reputable. Do NOT ever again make assumptions on my behalf, especially to further your own sense of importance.

 

[sirius]

So it is nothing to do with Bet2Gamble having the Tropez group in the sites to avoid list? I have got2bet in adwords but I only got 2 clicks (maybe from you) out of 213. casinomeister has 13 clicks from 759.

Isn't this a bit off topic? I just mentioned this because the ads disappeared from your site a couple of days afterwards.

 

[jimmylindholm]

doesnt anyone hve a good idea on how to go on with this?,to make them keep their written promise..
/Jimmy

 

[jetset]

Have they responded to your email checking on Max Fisher yet, Jimmy?

If not I would call them, ask for a supervisor and check that Fisher is a manager there (maybe he's the owner?) That will save Bryan time when he returns to work after the weekend, because I'm pretty sure he will take up this case for you if what you say regarding the circumstances is true.

Again - beware phone calls when you've made a good win.

Edited to add that I have referred the owners of Casino King to this thread.

 

[jimmylindholm]

i wrote to their marketing mailadress and asked them to forward my mail to max fisher and they did!
they aldso wrote the other day that they would take contackt with me on the phone.

 

[The Dude]

Before we get all riled up on this matter, let me get a few things straight here.

The player did not follow the terms and conditions of his bonus, but after a brief negotiation, the casino reversed their decision and agreed to pay this player anyway.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/casinoking-com.3564/?t=3564
Let's not lose sight of this, since already the player was in the wrong, and the casino agreed to pay - and this is not just peanuts but $20,800.

The player came back to the message board, gloating about the casino "giving up" and appeared (in my eyes) as truly ungrateful - unappreciative and a downright pain in the ass. Sorry jimmylindholm, but this is how you've behaved so far.

It appears that this has gone to a higher level of management, but what jimmylindholm hasn't mentioned is that there have been negotiations going on and offers being made.

If you are going to come to this forum and start complaining about whatever, lay all your cards on the table, not just a few. I don't believe you have been upfront with anyone here - especially me.

This just shows how shortsighted these casinos are. This guy is obviously a good customer and now he's won $37k they should be trying to make sure he comes back.

I disagree. This is a not a good customer. This is a player trying to screw over a casino.

 

[jpm]

What a scumbag! This guy is the reason all of us honest players get screwed over with these ridiculously high wagering requirements and banned games. The casino actually goes out of its way to make an exception for him more than once apparently, and he still tries to screw them over.

I hope you've banned him from the board forever Bryan.

 

[jetset]

The fact this player he did not reveal ALL the facts surrounding his complaint notwithstanding (and I condemn that, too) - is what he said true - that Max Fisher has reversed the earlier decision to give him 20Gs and is now offering 5G's in settlement?

 

[sirius]

I disagree. This is a not a good customer. This is a player trying to screw over a casino.

Casinomeister and JPM, you obviously have no clue what you are talking about here. The player played some games and won. He continued to play with his $20k when he could have withdrawn and now has $37k. He didn't screw the casino over at all. He knew which games didn't count towards the wagering requirements and had wagered enough on the allowed games. The problem is this casino and a few others have a policy of actually disallowing the games completely for no obvious reason. Don't they realise that players can win big in slots and video poker just as easily as roulette.

The player isn't gaining any advantage from playing these banned games at all!! There is no mathematical advantage from playing in the banned games rather than the allowed ones such as Video Poker or whatever else is allowed! Most casinos will not count these excluded games from the wagering requirements. There is absolutely no reason to ban them altogether. The player is at a disadvantage playing them because they don't count towards the wagering and will reduce his average profit. He can win big in the allowed games. Roulette has a huge house edge compared to many of the allowed games too but a low eddge wouldn't even change the fact that there is no advantage playing the banned games.

This player is owed all the money he has won. Did you even bother to read the past history I posted on this group?

Casinomeister, you think he has found some sort of loophole but he hasn't. He just tried to win big with his deposit. Of course, he wouldn't have played the excluded games if he thought they could void his winnings. Their terms used to be totally misleading on this point. From what I remember, he got a $25 bonus.

 

[The Dude]

Casinomeister and JPM, you obviously have no clue what you are talking about here. The player played some games and won. He continued to play with his $20k when he could have withdrawn and now has $37k. He didn't screw the casino over at all. He knew which games didn't count towards the wagering requirements and had wagered enough on the allowed games...
Casinomeister, you think he has found some sort of loophole but he hasn't....QUOTE]

Again, as stated before from the casino:

The player deposited $100 and received $100.

He played Blackjack at first which is not in accordance with our terms and won a little.

He then deposited again a few days later and received another bonus. This bonus allowed him to play Blackjack.

The next time he played which was a few days later he continued playing Blackjack and Roulette along with some Caribbean poker and slots.

He was told by online support that he played in excluded games but since he was new we would allow him to wager in allowed games until he satisfied the wagering the amount was about $780 required.

He has not yet satisfied the first deposit bonus terms but we were happy to allow him to play on allowed games. He was told Blackjack, Roulette, Baccarat and Craps were excluded.

He then went on to play some Blackjack Switch and a bit more Caribbean poker and some slots. However each time he lost a little he would replenish his account with some sizeable even shot bets on Roulette and play some Blackjack. He was basically interspersing his games with Roulette and Blackjack, perhaps hoping it would go unnoticed within his allowed game play.

He then continued playing big even shots on Roulette in later sessions until he finished on $21000.

We have checked at least a half a dozen times with the auditing dept to see whether there was any way we have made any kind of mistake in calculating his account wagering as I wanted to be 110% clear that the action we were taking was justified. We sympathies with him as it is very unpleasant situation. We did our utmost to try and help him at first, but he did not listen and at the end of the day we could nothing more for him.

Sirius, I have a clue. This is not a good customer/player. He sucks. (sorry jimmylindholm, but that's my honest opinion of your patronage). If I were running the casino, I would boot the guy just for being a pain in the ass.

 

[sirius]

He later said that wasn't totally correct and he deposited $100 and got the $100 bonus and lost it all in ten minutes. Then minutes later he deposited another $100 and got another $25 bonus (not sure if he knew what it was for). You also seemed to think he didn't know what the wagering requirements were but he knew about them and what he needed to do on the allowed games.

He read the terms and knew which games were excluded from the wagering requirements but most casinos don't have the ridiculous rule of banning them completely! Normally, they just don't count toward the wagering. You seem to think he did something to gain an advantage playing these excluded games! They don't count towards the wagering requirement so every bet he makes on these excluded games gives the casino more profit on average (they all have a house advantage, correct?).

Live Chat told him what the extra amount was that he needed to play in the allowed games and he knew it already They didn't say they could void his winnings later! They knew he had played the excluded games and didn't say to him he had no chance now of winning!

From what I udnerstand, he got his 20k back after the casino did the right thing, hoping he was going to be a good customer. He then went up to 32k (he could have withdrawn the 20k). He risked a lot and even carried on playing to 37k. Now the casino has changed their minds and don't care if he is a good customer because he has won too much.

 

[hhcfreebie]

From the limited information I read here, I don't see anything qualfiy the player to be a terrbile customer.
From a casino point of view, a good customer is those who play a lot, not necessarily those who loose a lot. In the land base casino the manager actually welcome the winners to come back and play more as long as they are not counting cards etc.
There is no advantage to gain whatsoever from online casinos. No matter what he bet, be it even shot on roulette, or progressive bet on BJ the casino always have the advantage.
If he had using bonuses, it would be okay for casino to void his bonus because he played the excluded games. To void his winning just because he played the excluded games is a little too hard, even though it's stated on their T & C.
Maybe this guy has a smart mouth or bad attitude. Like I said I don't see the whole picture so it's just my 2 cents.

 

[jimmylindholm]

i have not trying to hide anything since there are clear what has happened!
just tryed to shortened a long story a bit and bryan had bad day or short temper the other week, thinking i was gloating or making fun of the casino!,read my previous thread for those might be intrested,
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/casinoking-com.3564/?t=3564
.........................................
gonna try to explain the story agin..

played for first time ever at a onlinecasino (casinoking.com)
deposited 100 usd lost in 10 minutes deposited another 100 & recived a bonus of 25 dollars.
placed my bets on roulette,black jack & carribean stud poker..
got up to the amount of 500 usd went to cashier to make a withdrawal, got a mail back that i havent wagered enoug and they put the money back on my account!
didnt now anything about wageringrequirements before this and looked it up!,no problem at all understanding tyheir terms and condition!
keps playing to fulfill wagering..
this time mailing their online support to find how much is left to wager,gets in responce 780 usd, nothing else is said by their chat support..

plays on a while switchng these 3 games and starts to play casinowar for maximum bet to quiklky fulfill requirements..
goes to onlinesupport again & they telling me to call their support instead..

call them and asking same thing again!-how much is left to wager ...
gets the response that i have wagered enough on my allowed cardgames,asking them to be absolutley clear about this if that means that i can cash out without any problems now, gets a clearly yes ...
still nothing else is said from there side about not fulfilling correcktly since i swithing allowed games with not allowed..

makes a withdrawal of 21000 usd.
after 4 days i, gets a mail from harvey that i havent fullfilled me requirements and therefore they cleared my account and putted my initial deposit of 200 usd back on my visacard..
contacts casinomeister at this point asking for help.
after a week of mailing back and forth and i recievin a mail where thay revesring their desition and puts 20800 back on the account wiashing me good luck hoping that this will never occur again with any other player, they explayns that i havent played correckly and since they failed in their rutines not preventing this by telling me when they had the chanse several times the shows that this proves them to be a trustworthy company..
writes back in the forum with the healine- they have now given up..
and that i won futher more than 10000 usd.
thiss pisses bryan of and saying that i am showing very low appretiation (sorry for bad spelling here)...
that wasnt my intention! replies to forumreaders & bryan with a sorry if someone took it the wrong way..

Aldso excuses myself if anyone took my thread the wrong way..

But the story goes on!
2 days after this mail fr harvey,

my homephone calls!, its a guy calling himself max fisher,
and he wants to offer me a settlement!,i then tells him that i recived a mail the other the from "harvey" who claiming himself being a casinomanager and that he said its ok for me to do as i please with my money..

he says something about that he is harveys boss keps eading fr a script? saying he can not allowe a withdrawal on this games..

says thanks but no thanks since i think they are binde to their written commitment saying its my money since they failed their rutines and im gonna look it up he has now called me 2 times again with same offer..
(says no every time)
then i recived a mail from their marketing manager asking me to confirm that i will accept the settlement???....

Does this sound like a good behaviour from a company bryan?

i have now contacted antiguaoffshoregaming commision and filed a complaint regarding this !
even mailed to some attorneys overloking this matter to se if they can help me since i belive bryan think im a stupid,ungrateful,bad, etc player
and wont bother himself more than calling me things in this thread..

dont know whats gonna happen !,maybe they will offer a better settlement or not,but im pretty sure that with their behavior towards players i dont belive they would offer a settlement if they could avoid paying a single cent...

regards /"bad boy" jimmy :/

 

[jpm]

Ok, my apologies for calling jimmylindholm a scumbag. That was a bit rash in retrospect. That being said, this is how I see it:

The way Bryan has explained it after hearing from both sides, it sounds as though he was scamming them by continuing to play the banned games after being told which ones they were. Its hard to tell whether or not this was explained clearly or directly to him. According to the T&C though, they'd have the right to disallow his winnings & bonus in this case (a very standard clause in most casino's T&C these days). It seems like the casino manager was being benevolent in allowing him to continue to play and then cash out his massive win, but then apparently upper management (owner perhaps ??) overruled that and offered a compromise settlement.

Jimmylindholm doesn't like that idea since he'd be losing ~25K, and who wouldn't dislike that? But if the T&C says they can void the winnings under these circumstances, then they've kinda got you over a barrel. I think if I were in his shoes, I'd counter offer to settle for half and take the money & run.

I agree that it is a ridiculous rule making these banned completely as opposed to just discounting the wagering done on these games. Obviously they are herding players to the games that are more difficult to meet wagering requirements while playing. With craps, roulette & baccarat, you could easily meet w/r with even money bets (albeit with slight risk, assuming a single 0 wheel and french rules for roulette, 5% commission on baccarat, and the various craps rolls on the bones. My choice would be baccarat even money bets I think) and I think you would have a slight, perceived advantage on a couple of these games. For instance a pattern of numerous black numbers coming up on roulette while playing even money bets, could persuade you to believe red will be next up and you could make a good sized bet on red and double up quick if you're right. I know, there's no guarantee that it would happen that way, but sooner or later the pattern has to reverse, and I know I've bet on that many times and been rewarded more often than not. That's why I believe they are banned rather than just discounted from w/r.

 

[jetset]

So, is this settlement you write about from Max Fisher the $5 000 you mentioned earlier? They allgedly owe you $37 000 and they're offering to settle for $5K??

And you have emails to prove this?

 

[The Dude]

Well, from what I am hearing, I am standing firm by my opinion that this dude is a pain in the ass. Here's why.

He has not explained everything to the forum members, giving this a spin of an evil casino doing an evil deed.

Apparently, the player racked up his winnings to $33,000 within hours of having his winnings reinstated and demanded that his account be closed. (real good customer, eh?) He then started seriously complaining about the casino's terms and conditions:

"If you have played at the Casino for less than 6 months and wish to withdraw winnings totalling $20,000 or more then you will only be permitted to withdraw the money in installments of $5000 per month."

This did not make the "customer" happy, so he emailed the casino back with a counter offer which I pressume is being considered. But maybe not since he's pissed a lot of people off.

Sooo people, before some of you start jumping to conclusions, please take into consideration that you don't have the full picture. Especially with new posters who jump into this forum feet first with some casino complaint entitled "casinoking.com = criminals"

 

[jetset]

I don't think anyone is jumping to conclusions here, Bryan - it is simply a case of giving the poster the fair hearing for which Casinomeister has always been respected, and continues to be so.

But your explanation of the $5 000 rule at Casino King.com goes to clarifying this *settlement* aspect which was worrying me somewhat.

 

[jimmylindholm]

i have every mail saved including the ine from "harvey" where he said it was my money!

"If you have played at the Casino for less than 6 months and wish to withdraw winnings totalling $20,000 or more then you will only be permitted to withdraw the money in installments of $5000 per month."
This did not make the "customer" happy, so he emailed the casino back with a counter offer which I pressume is being considered. But maybe not since he's pissed a lot of people off.

bryan your way off here!!!

i belive i would be the first to know if i have mailed the casino an offer... my following mail after iwas explained on how withdrawals are being made! only asked them how long am i seen as a new member? 6 month i got told & if there is any way around that..!
so plz stop making things up that are not true !