- Joined
- Oct 8, 2012
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cant seem to find any info about paradise 8. looked in the search bar but couldnt find anything solid. i know they are rival
info please?
- Thread starter philderby
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- Aug 25, 2004
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- Bexhill on sea, England
What exactly do you want to know about them?
They were one of the first 4 Rival casinos to open in April 2006. (The others in the group being Cocoa, DaVinci's Gold and This is Vegas).
Very solid and reliable IMPO.
Of course, all those casinos are white labels, and on CM's no-can-do list, with virtually all the other Rival casinos.
KK
They were one of the first 4 Rival casinos to open in April 2006. (The others in the group being Cocoa, DaVinci's Gold and This is Vegas).
Very solid and reliable IMPO.
Of course, all those casinos are white labels, and on CM's no-can-do list, with virtually all the other Rival casinos.
KK
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- Oct 8, 2012
- Location
- Derby
kool just wanted to know if there is a good rival out there. what does 'White Label' mean?
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
Solid and reliable......unless you have a problem, which is common with white label Rivals, in which case you're up shit creek without a paddle.
Anyone playing at a No-Can-Do casino is asking for trouble....but hey, if the people who are making money out of them say they're "solid and reliable" then who am I to argue?
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Swe
If someone plays at the No-Can-Do list then casinomeister is unable to help that person, correct?
@ OP have you read the Tropica Casino complaint?
Once an accredited Rival casino suddenly didn't want to pay out 7K, after alot of complaints and such they did pay but not the whole sum (missing 2k).
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/tropica-casino-not-paying-£7k.55580/
@ OP have you read the Tropica Casino complaint?
Once an accredited Rival casino suddenly didn't want to pay out 7K, after alot of complaints and such they did pay but not the whole sum (missing 2k).
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/tropica-casino-not-paying-£7k.55580/
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2011
- Location
- UK
If you want to play Rival, I'd go with Slots Capital, iirc part of the SlotoCash accredited group here, so you should be in safe hands.
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2011
- Location
- United Kingdom
Actually they have only paid back 2.5k so far they are paying the 5k back in installments apparently !! Run away !!
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2004
- Location
- Pictland
Yes, as stated on the NCD page:
That page is here, https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-complaints/no-can-do-list/
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
Just a small thing....AFAIK Tropica were never accredited here.
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- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Swe
My bad about the Tropica being accredited. 
Thanks Nifty for correcting me.
Thanks Nifty for correcting me.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Location
- United Kingdom
The problem with even the "good" white labels is that they can turn bad overnight. Tropica were once considered one of the best of the "good white labels", and they had an active forum rep. Bryan was even considering changing the rules for accreditation so that Tropica could at least be eligible for consideration as many players that played there felt it was unfair that a casino that they considered BETTER than some accredited casinos could never hold that status.
Then one day......
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/tropica-casino-not-paying-£7k.55580/
Now they are in the pit, and FULLY in, not merely "not recommended" like most of the other Rival white labels.
This is not a unique happening either, there have been a number of reputable looking Rival white labels that suddenly "crash and burn", catching out those players that played there, and those affiliates that promoted them.
This is Vegas, another solid Rival casino that decided to "crash and burn" one day. They do at least seem to have repaired the damage, and are not currently listed in the Rogue pit.
What makes the Rival casino Slots Capital so different is that they are NOT a white label, but run independently as a "proper" casino by a "proper" casino operator. They are far less likely to turn bad than a standard white label, and this difference has made them eligible for accreditation, which is where they are now to be found.
KasinoKing's attempt to sort the good from the bad, rather than ditch the whole Rival estate, is the source of much controversy here, and KK must be prepared for some burnt fingers and a serving or two of facial omelette.
Then one day......
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/tropica-casino-not-paying-£7k.55580/
Now they are in the pit, and FULLY in, not merely "not recommended" like most of the other Rival white labels.
This is not a unique happening either, there have been a number of reputable looking Rival white labels that suddenly "crash and burn", catching out those players that played there, and those affiliates that promoted them.
This is Vegas, another solid Rival casino that decided to "crash and burn" one day. They do at least seem to have repaired the damage, and are not currently listed in the Rogue pit.
What makes the Rival casino Slots Capital so different is that they are NOT a white label, but run independently as a "proper" casino by a "proper" casino operator. They are far less likely to turn bad than a standard white label, and this difference has made them eligible for accreditation, which is where they are now to be found.
KasinoKing's attempt to sort the good from the bad, rather than ditch the whole Rival estate, is the source of much controversy here, and KK must be prepared for some burnt fingers and a serving or two of facial omelette.
Don't want to turn this into another Rival thread, but I've yet to see any proof that such thing even existed (other than the words from some rogue operators that don't even seem to know who they work for).
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
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- Bexhill on sea, England
When that happened they were under different ownership, I believe John Right (?) who used to post quite a bit on the forum and I think they may have been close to being accredited (or actually accredited), once upon a time (?).
Shortly after being rogued by CM in 2010, they were taken back over by the 400 Group, which they were originally a part of.
Sadly this is true, but is not unique to Rival casinos; I have lost count of all the other apparently reputable (and some even accredited) casinos which have crashed & burnt in a similar way.
I'm glad you mentioned affiliates; some people seem to forget (or not realise) that affiliates are FAR more likely to be screwed over by casinos than players are. An affiliate has to totally trust the the operator is being fair, honest and not ripping them off. Shady goings on by affy programs is almost impossible to detect or prove.
KK
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2004
- Location
- United Kingdom
The problem with Rival is that ownership changes are more frequent than elsewhere, and there is a fair bit of secrecy over who owns what. It means that players (and affiliates) get caught on the hop because ownership changes behind the scenes, and often in secrecy. The first players and affiliates know of such a change is when they experience uncharacteristic behaviour in a particular Rival casino. Even worse is that some will even lie about such things in order to appear more reliable than they are.
Tropica is a case in point, on the verge of triggering a rethink of the "no white labels" blanket rule for accreditation, they quietly underwent a change of ownership. This was not announced in advance, but only admitted in the course of offering excuses as to why a player hadn't been paid his 7K withdrawal. One excuse was that the old owners left no records behind, so the new owners could not trace the records of what happened, and they also felt no obligation to take responsibility for players' funds from before they took over, and were only doing so as "goodwill". For players, this means that not only can Rival casinos change owners and become very different casinos, but that players' funds are not necessarily protected during the transfer.
This means that no matter how good a particular Rival casino is now, there is no way to know if it will still be as good tomorrow.
When radical change takes place at "proper" casinos, there is usually advance notification to players and affiliates, often to reassure them that they will not see their funds at risk because of the transfer. It at least means players are aware that things have changed, and can decide whether they accept the changes, or want their funds out beforehand.
If Rival were more open and honest about such matters, it would be easier to judge the different Rival white labels on their own individual merits.
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2012
- Location
- Switzerland
There's a really simple answer: The only RIVAL you need to play is Slots Capital. Accredited, very reliable and one (just my opinion) of the best Rep's here in the Forum. A very good casino.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
- Location
- Bexhill on sea, England
Tell me about it!
I have been banging on and on about that for years. We know that Rival monitor these forums and most likely read all threads where their casinos are mentioned, but still nothing changes. They obviously believe that they are 100% correct in everything they do and that everyone else is talking nonsense.
It's just so frustrating :sob:
KK
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
....and this is where the affiliates come in.
If they won't listen, then stop promoting them. Rival aren't going to change jack if yourself and others just keep sending then players regardless.
It seems rival pull the strings when push comes to shove at every one of their casinos. Why, then, would an ethical affiliate send unsuspecting players their way when they continually refuse to be open about their involvement in the background and their refusal to step in when their casinos (white labels in which THEY have a share) go bust?
Are affiliates really THAT desperate nowadays that the honesty and integrity, or lack thereof, of the casinos they spruik mean nothing? I just can't get my head around the idea of someone putting their reputation on the line for the sake of a few extra bucks. It seems the idea is to cram as many casinos as one can into ones site and THEN seperate the wheat from the chaff for the player.....in my mind, an ethical affiliate who actually cares about their customers wouldn't be promoting the chaff in the first place!. IMO the idea of throwing just about any casino up with caveats here there and everywhere is no better than a banner farm with V1rtual and C00lcat. After all, if the reasoning is that the affy is providing a "warning" about shitty terms etc, then there's no reason not to list rogues like this too, as long as they state "could take 6 months to get paid" or "have awful bonus terms" etc. Its no different to saying "takes 10 bus days to get paid via $500 instalments".
I would respect an affy far more for having a dozen or so really good casinos on their site with a track record of honesty and integrity than one who has 50+ of varying reputations. It just seems like affys cant wait to get a new casino straight up on their site, instead of doing their due diligence and making sure they're of sound quality.
KK, next time you get frustrated, ask yourself what part you're playing in maintaining the status quo.
I'm not an affy and I understand your point but I'm going to play Devil's advocate here. The point of being an affy is to get people to sign under your name, and if everyone is only promoting 32Red, Slotocash, 3Dice and Redbet, they won't get many referrals as most players already have an account there. So in order to make money, they must push as many casinos as possible in hope that potential players will find a new one and click on their link. That's the nature of the beast, unless you own some major website like CM where you can afford to be picky.
This is a business, they are doing it to make money first.
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
Oh yes....its all about the money. I agree.
As a result, one should not claim or be held up to be anything more than a businessman pushing as many casinos as possible to make money, even if some of those casinos are of questionable quality and reputation.
It also means that their reputation is inextricably linked to those they promote.
If an affy isn't prepared to do what CM does I.e. proper vetting, bap by fire etc, OR at least have some charter of minimum standards, then they should not be considered to have the player's interests at heart.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
Being an affiliate doesn't mean you have to promote every single casino on the internet. This is certainly case for many of the larger sites such as this one and others. The more traffic a portal gets, the more the webmaster of the site has to work at ensuring the reputation of the portal remains strong.
Also, bear in mind that many webmasters are players or come from a background in the industry. This is certainly the case for myself for instance and I know this to be the case for KK.
You will find that many webmasters will only promote places where they are happy playing at and try to be as objective and honest as possible. So whilst a website is about earning money, as for many this is a webmasters' main source of income and therefore their job ( as is the case with me ), we also want to provide players with a good resource of information. Thus ensuring players will keep on coming back to our sites and also telling their friends about our site or sites.
Most full time affiliate webmasters do provide insight into the properties they push, certainly those with a background and grounding in the industry do. Also each webmaster is different. Case in point, Bryan has Spin Palace on this site, I would not touch them with a barge pole, other than on the pages of my own rogue section. I have also promoted properties in the past that Bryan wouldn't give the time of day to.
The thing is, those of us in this for the long haul, do care about the visitor experience we provide the players that view our sites. Ok KK promotes Rival Casinos, I don't. But KK is also a player and personally to him he finds them ok. The fact they are listed as NCD here does not mean he is wrong to list them on his site.
Fair enough. I'm not saying that you guys are a bunch of mercenaries with no moral, but "helping unknown players" is likely and understandably far behind "making money" in your list of priorities. The main reason why you don't post some questionable casinos is because you want the player to trust you and come back for more. That's ok, though. It's business and I see nothing wrong with that.
I see.
You can make money and still be professional and honest, as proper affys like KK, Webzcas and Simmo (to mention just a few names familiar here) have shown over the years.
The problem is that there are not enough of the decent affiliates who will make an honest effort to push only competent and fair operators/casinos.
There must be thousands of affys out there who lack the commitment, integrity, knowledge and energy to produce reliable guidance for players and constantly monitor the performance and player reactions to the casinos that they promote.
It's the sort of business that has no barriers to entry and no generally accepted standards of behaviour, although bodies like the GPWA do try hard, but at the end of the day anyone can climb in regardless of whether or not they have the "commitment, integrity, knowledge and energy" listed above.
There are many good, professional affys, but I fear their efforts, and perhaps general reputation, are diluted in the perception of the public by the probably vast numbers of those that don't give a stuff about the player, or in behaving in a professional manner. They just don't (or won't) take on board responsibility for their actions in promoting bad operators, and the consequences that such activity has...and clearly they do not make the connection between bad advice and a poor personal reputation.
It's not hard to be judgemental in such a scenario, but as in most things there is some good with the bad.
I think experienced players probably do their own additional dd instead of simply accepting the clearly gilded and hyped recommendations of many affs, but that unfortunately doesn't help the newbies who come in and are confronted with all manner of websites and exhortations to visit this or that casino.
Once you have survived the newbie phase and have decided on a good forum where you feel comfortable and have confidence in the advice available - perhaps even at an affy site - a wider spectrum of more objective opinion and knowledge becomes available.
I just wish that transition from newbie to smart player could be made earlier and faster - a lot of new players get discouraged by bad industry conduct, I fear.
Here's another thought - your real affy is prepared to step in and argue a player's case with an operator that he or she promotes, often forcefully - that's a useful service for a player with a problem.
And real affys spend a significant amount of time doing their own research and actually playing to provide genuinely useful information, both in depth and at-a-glance for visitors to their sites.
I should perhaps add here that I am not an affy!
And real affys spend a significant amount of time doing their own research and actually playing to provide genuinely useful information, both in depth and at-a-glance for visitors to their sites.
I should perhaps add here that I am not an affy!
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2009
- Location
- Out Of Town
You are correct, getting a sign up to 32Red is like finding that 1 needle in a hay barn. But there are 100's upon 1000's of online casinos, one does not have to just promote anyone or everyone. Those that do look like they are after the quick $$ and don't give a toss about the players as long as the affiliate program pays up, which ends up making players angry and tarring all webmasters with the same brush.
There are casinos that CM does not promote or have on the site that would be on par with 32Red or even better. I think it is up to the site to approach Bryan to be listed here though and some of them do not bother, with us smaller affiliates we have to approach the casino in most cases.
As for KK he can promote whom he likes as long as he steps up to the plate when something goes wrong, which I think he would and have seen him help many players over the time I have been here. A lot of the ones he promotes I don't like but that is my personal opinion and perception of these places, his is different and I respect that.
Yep, Bryan has a few sites I wouldn't even think twice about promoting but each webmaster is always going to be different. I think the problem is, most affiliate programs change the terms around so that it screws over the smaller (but larger community) of affiliates and big sites (like cm) don't really feel them.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
- Location
- Bexhill on sea, England
Just want to quickly remind everyone that the ONLY reason that all Rival casinos are on the No-Can-Do list is because of the stupid letter Rival sent to Bryan threatening legal action if he did not delete some posts.
It was nothing to do with anything any of the individual casinos did, but once again the reputable ones have been tarred with the same brush as the dodgy ones through absolutely no fault of their own.
Also, a minor correction to something someone posted above: Tropica are not on the Rogue List.
(They are on the "Not Recommended" list)
KK
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Swe
It's like saying Tropica dosen't suck big times, they just suck.
What I think is strange is here at CM we list bad casinos and more or less hang them out and say stay away from them and you promote them on another site.
Just want to quickly remind everyone that the ONLY reason that all Rival casinos are on the No-Can-Do list is because of the stupid letter Rival sent to Bryan threatening legal action if he did not delete some posts.
It was nothing to do with anything any of the individual casinos did, but once again the reputable ones have been tarred with the same brush as the dodgy ones through absolutely no fault of their own.
Also, a minor correction to something someone posted above: Tropica are not on the Rogue List.
(They are on the "Not Recommended" list)
KK
When I dig about Rival's White Label history here and elsewhere your name always comes up. You even started threads to talk about them so you obviously know what they are and what they hide. Either I can't read properly, or there's something that you know and won't tell us. Old / Expired Link, which is fine too.
Bonne Chance N.V. said:
Now correct me if I'm wrong but did Bonne Chance asked the affiliates to not worry about promoting White Labels because they will get paid "regardless of their state" (ie: if/when they fail)?
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2001
I also think some people forget that these "solid and reputable" Rival casinos have been, and no doubt still are, vulnerable to "processor seizures" (well this is what we were fed) that have in the past caused complete cessation of ALL player payments for MONTHS. It could happen again at ANY time. I remember some people took almost six months to be paid due to the backlog. Appalling.
If this is an example of "solid and reputable" then I would be interested to see examples of "unstable and unreliable"....
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
- Location
- Bexhill on sea, England
I didn't remember that thread - but it was nearly 3 years ago!
They didn't ask affiliates to do anything as far as I can see, they just made a statement saying funds will not vanish if the casino fails. This also applies to Players money too - AFAIK all players still got their cash-outs from those Rivals which went under.
I don't know any secrets about White Labels - I wish I did! There is nothing I know that I haven't posted about.
I don't just "want to make money" (these accusations are getting very tiresome now); I list casinos which I think are safe and fair for people to play at based on my own research and experience. I would happily deposit and play my own cash at any casino I list on my sites (and I often do). I do admit I need to do a "Spring clean" to review and probably remove some of the casinos I list, which I will do as soon as I get the chance. (Very busy off-line at the moment, trying to move house).
KK
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
- Location
- Bexhill on sea, England
Processor seizures effected virtually ALL casinos serving the USA, not just Rivals. In fact, I believe the worst effected group was Rushmore (RTG casinos).
Affiliates lost money when this happened too.
KK
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