I'm screwed. The dream is dead.

jstrike

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Location
Europe
I had a dream. The dream was to build my own casino, alone, from scratch, and make it the best in the world. Starting in my garage. Something no one had ever done before. To make something that people would go "wow" at. Something that showed off what I could do with my own sweat and hard work. I kept building it, compulsively, like an addict, for three years, no matter how crazy anyone said it was.

The dream's dead.

I wanted to do it really right. No US players. Total transparency on everything from card shoes to roulette spins. Verifying ID before the first deposit. Excellence in customer service. Meeting the highest standards in the world. Original games I dreamed up. Letting players control their own odds. No popups. No ads. A tight-knit community. Beautiful graphics. All multiplayer games.

Well, I spent three years writing the software and designing it, and although it's only got 20 games, they're the best there is. And I figured, just don't worry about it. Keep working. Keep your head down. If you build it, they will come.

I got incorporated in Costa Rica, because I couldn't afford anything else. But I figured we'd start with poker, build up our reputation, and then get licensed somewhere and run the casino side.

Turns out, my Costa Rica corporation is a big expensive freakin joke. You can't process payments with a Costa Rica corporation anymore, not without breaking the law everywhere else. No one will even open us a bank account unless we lie about who we are, and I don't want to do that.

I have to thank the people I've met in Curacao and the Netherlands who've been kind to me and had the patience to explain how the world works for me. I wouldn't know what I do about the industry without their kindness. And they opened my eyes to the impossibility of what I was facing. To get licensed in Curacao or somewhere else, I'd need at least $100k floating around. And there's no other way anymore, unless you start rogue and stay rogue, which completely defeats the point.

If there's any hope for me now, it's raising that kind of money eventually. What they told me was, go on and start it for play money and see what happens. What happens when what? They say people walk in their offices all the time with $250k and want to start a casino, and have to choose from the same selection of software that's been around forever. But no one will invest in something untested.

So this is what my dream's been reduced to. I have to basically open it up for play money and just let it go as a website, and hope that enough people like it, demand it, that I can get that kind of investment in it before someone just rips off my ideas and I'm left having done three years of hard labor for nothing but love.

So. I hope that given this situation, the fact that we won't be taking deposits anytime in the foreseeable future, and given our prior conversations, the CM doesn't have a problem with me showing what I've built here. I want people to see the software...see what online casinos SHOULD look like, and some of my really wild concepts about what they SHOULD do and especially see how they should behave toward their customers.

So here's the link, hosted in the US, for play money only. The big tamale. 300,000 lines of original code... and believe me, it makes me feel suicidal to have to do it this way, but here goes:

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

I hope you like it. This is probably my damn swan song. I don't think I'll ever try this hard at anything again, so I hope you'll all be kind.

And just so you know: The code for a real money site is there, but we don't even have a bank account, let alone processing, and it ain't happening now or anytime soon. This is not a pitch for anyone to play for real anything. I don't want anyone to accuse me of that. It's what it is ------- I want you guys to see my software, so that hopefully one day I can say that it wasn't all done in vain.

If you want to know how anything works, have any suggestions for what might be improved, or anything like that...drop me a line. I wrote every single line of code in there. :eek2:
 
maybe interesting

Hey,

You are probably know this, but slotland and winaday (pretty well known casinos) are licenced and registered using the Government of Anjouan.
It costs about 50k a year for the a virtual casino license, i dont know about their reputation, but i thought you maybe find it interesting :)

here are some links for more info:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
- website from a company dealing with the licenses orso, dont really know but the info was interesting.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
- official goverment website
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
- wiki page

,Coenie:thumbsup:
 
Thanks. And thank you for checking it out.
The problem is, we already have a corporation in Costa Rica. We're legally allowed to set up a server and take bets. But just like anywhere else outside the EU, if we don't have a corporation and a license in the EU, no payment processors will work with us. So we're dead, unless we can afford the license, and all the lawyers and the certificates that go with it. $50k a year is also waaayyyy out of my price range. I mean... right now, this whole thing has cost about $3k over 3 years, because I did all the work.
 
Demo mode is "forever buffering" - does nothing, and the video just doesn't play.

I wonder how all the other online casinos based in Costa Rica manage to process payments for EU based players. Looks like they have all found a way around the laws that have prevented YOU from processing payments from a Costa Rica based corporation. Maybe they just use dummy companies to disguise the nature and source of the payments. The Virtual group seem to run through a processing arm based in the UK, and probably disguised what they were doing so as to get a bank account within the EU.

It's helpful to have $100K "floating around" though, as enough is needed in case there is an early crop of big winners, who would expect to be paid BEFORE the long term house edge kicked in to provide an income stream.
 
Hey VW
That's weird, maybe you hit a rough spot...but this is just running off one test server (edit: One shared server); it's supposed to run on 3 (dedicated servers) at least. Can you try it again?

As far as float/payback, we were just going to run 5¢ games and poker at the start, with a $15k float. But yes, $150k is definitely helpful.

Apparently the way the CR guys get around it is by disguising themselves as other things, and processing non-7995 transactions through real estate companies and crap like that. I won't do it. The hell with it. It's not worth sacrificing my soul for.

(edit) To elaborate on that, I've found two ways of making it work from CR. One is to set up a real estate company with a fake website to distract the authorities, then open a bank account and process for that company, moving money constantly in and out of it. Totally shady. The second way is to go through an EU company that disguises the transactions. Because they process basically twice, they charge 9% on deposits. Double the regular rate. Our house edge is very small. The games are very, very favorable to the player. I would have to have about a 14% edge to make it work with their rate, and still scrape by. I'd rather just wait. If I open a site with a 14% house edge, no one will want to play there.
 
Hello, i can't get your website to work either!!! would love to see it, but i signed up for account, got email, clicked on verification link, but website keeps telling me i haven't verified it yet:mad:
 
I'm not sure how your dream is dead? Was it because your dream tried to do too much at once and wear every hat?

Can a dream not be broken down into individual modules? If it can, then many of your dreams have in fact come true. The software portion made it to a mature point where it could be played.

It is rare when one individual can take an idea and blossom it into the full product without any other help at all. We can probably find historical instances, but the odds are staggering. The way it happens all the other times, the business idea is brought to life by a GROUP of people, who then hire managers, employees, and outside people like vendors, suppliers, consultants, and lawyers.

Money rules everything. Obviously when a business starts up, there's going to be lots of licensing issues, etc. These are all very expensive things. You have to pay to have the privilege of being an entity in their market.

Are these all really bad things designed to keep an entrepreneur down? Markets will say no, this is to designed to be difficult so that the market does not get flooded with inexperienced businesses. It's a protection mechanism.

Can someone without 100k laying around be trusted to run an entire casino business? How would your casino pay out wins at first? The reason you're told people come in with 250k is because people with money rule the top tier of the game, period. The 250k is just what they walked in with, willing to invest. They more than likely have millions in bank accounts to then actually back up the business they are investing in. IMO, there isn't a single casino, land based or virtual, that isn't owned by the very top by a REAL millionaire. For land based casinos, I'd upgrade that to billionaire.

Ok, well I could lament here for hours, but just end up with a book. The bottom line, is it at all realistic for someone to start a gambling business and start taking deposits from a garage? What experience do you actually have outside of software development (ie., actual casino management)? Would you deposit there, knowing that the casino was run by one guy out of his garage?

You have a talent. There's no reason to pack your marbles and claim 'swan song'. You could easily get inside the business as a software technician, as just one example entry point. Hell, you could even become a millionaire yourself if you branded your software and licensed it out to millionaires opening a casino.

The paths open to you are mind-boggling, but you say your dream is dead? I would say your dream became larger than you, and you need to realize that not only have some of your dreams come true, there are other ares of the dream that are valid and could make you millions.

There are those who don't dream big enough, and get defeated very quickly. There are those who dream too big, and get exhausted running into all the roadblocks chasing the dream. They fail. The successful entrepreneur is the one who can bring in others and start modularizing the larger dream into individual components that can be managed.

Being narrow-minded right now would be tragic. Not only are you a gifted coder, you also represent yourself as a trustworthy person who wants to do things above board. You have the ingredients necessary for success, you just need to be more realistic with which next steps are appropriate.

I mean no disrespect when I say, and again this is based on what little information I have from your original post, opening this casino in its current form and being run by one person, is a disastrous plan.

I do hope you'll find a way to contribute to the industry. It needs it.

- Keith
 
Firstly: Keith. Thank you for the hope. It's been a hopeless day and, if I read the signs right, probably I jumped off a cliff.

To people experiencing trouble, I seem to already be under some kind of DoS attack since I posted this an hour ago. The perfect ending to a great day. I'm trying to figure it out. Please be patient.
 
There are elements of this software that would be of interest to some of the major providers. You should look into a joint venture that might help you gain some traction as a game creator instead of trying to make the whole casino single-handed. Develop a rep as someone who makes great games and you can build a profitable career.

Feel free to PM me. I have some friends who might be able to give you some leads.
 
Are you guys able to load any of the video at all, right now? I'm on a slow connection and it seems to be playing, but slowly...
 
It looks like the server might be having some problems with the video player. But, VW and denamoutz -- have you managed to log in at all? dena, I verified you manually...

It looked like a DDOS attack, but I'm still not sure... things are running though, somewhat.
 
By the way, Keith..
What you're saying is...the advice my father gave me. If I'd taken it two years ago, I wouldn't be two more years down the tubes. But then again, I do believe in this project. The thing is, I never wanted to work for somebody else. That's why I spent every weekend, every all-night coding session, making this thing.

Would I want to gamble with a guy who was based out of his garage. It's a good question. I'd say if I knew who the guy was, I'd probably feel better about it than Bodog, and worse than Pokerstars. Somewhere right in the middle. But I think, if it weren't for the licensing, I could ramp it up and prove it's possible, by starting with parimutuel games only, and never taking a profit until we hit our mark. And as for running it, I don't have experience, but I did stay at a holiday inn express ;)
 
I can view your site but the video is just way slow.
--------------------------------------------------
Why you say your dream is dead? You have not started yet.
Being an ex-software guy, I suggest you should talk to some
Venture capital company while building up the user base.

Give some Lucky draw (gift/cash) for people playing your game.
Get bigger userbase and comapny will come to you.

Good one and stick to your dream.:thumbsup:
--------------------------------------------------------------

1)by the way, have you stress testing your software/site?
2)do some SEO, the visibility on WWW is the vital.
 
sorry, not able to log in:mad:confused: I was looking forward to seeing your site

Hey Dena, I just emailed you again with a new password (at the address you put on the site) ... if you can't get in, email me. You can also call me at (877) 6-Strike. I'm usually awake ;)
 
jstrike, I had no problem with the registration process or log-in.
Only tried the slot worked fine except from one detail, after each spin I had to choose nr of lines to be able to spin again)
It looks fine, I will check out more, just wanted to tell that it worked.
 
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Everything works fine here. Video's are loading fast and everything seems to run smoothly.

When i started to have a look i was eager to see more. Unfortunately after about 10 minutes i lost interest... I understand that this is just a "test" but i play mainly slots and you've got only one.

I like the idea of a player creating their "own" slot by changing settings. I think that's a smart move. I only think that the slot looks too simple to get people to play it. Also it's quite annoying that you have to push multiple buttons to spin and there's no autoplay option.

Still... The software/design looks very good on the outside. I won't give up if i were you. If you really decide to give up you better look for a generous buyer.

Frank
 
1)by the way, have you stress testing your software/site?
2)do some SEO, the visibility on WWW is the vital.

Yeah... actually, if we ever open for real money, we're going to restrict it to a few hundred players at the beginning, and verify ID before deposit. So it's very word-of-mouth. I do NOT want thousands of people showing up. What I want is a slow, steady, private club.

I'd be happy if we bring in 1,000 good poker players and cap it right there.
 
I must say I envy your creative enthusiasm, but feel you lack in the business end of things in a very large way. It's obvious you didn't invest much time in actually researching the cost of a launch. Sadly it sounds like your massively under funded.

Keith, (Da_Gambla) covered some of the more obvious issues very nicely, without even getting into much detail. Just server protection would run up to five didget fiqures per month. Ask Bryan here what he pays just for this site? You mentioned you were only live for an hour or so and already migh have had a DOS attack.

Although, already owning the software, without a serious investor, or personal means to raise the funds needed for a launch, maybe researching alternate ways of marketing your hard work for profit is another option.

You also mentioned you were trying to do business in Costa Rica since it was all you were able to afford. How did you come to that conclusion? Did you actually compare the cost in Costa Rica to other jurisdictions?

If you were able to afford and launch out of Costa Rica, were their certain regulation requirments for the games you offered?

You mention below, QUOTE:

I would have to have about a 14% edge to make it work with their rate, and still scrape by. I'd rather just wait. If I open a site with a 14% house edge, no one will want to play there.

Many casinos operate out of Costa Rica. Are you saying that they need to operate with a 14% house edge just to survive?

Did anyone their mention what the lowest house edge setting legally was authorized to make ends meet?
 
I tried your slot. And as someone said before, a bit boring after some minutes. But most players are used to video-slots from MG, Playtech and others so thats no surprise.

There are casinos that has been successful with the use of "easier" slots...like betvoyager. They have more "traditional" slots but I think people uses them because their focus is in trust and reliability, rather than fanzy videogames.

I saw talent when I visited your "casino". I think you have great potential.

But for you to start a whole new Casino. I don`t know. Based on what I saw, you should probably be working full-time with programming.
 
Many casinos operate out of Costa Rica. Are you saying that they need to operate with a 14% house edge just to survive?

Did anyone their mention what the lowest house edge setting legally was authorized to make ends meet?

We did Costa Rica because it cost us about $1000 to incorporate there. The next option up was Curacao, which needs a corporate structure in the EU, and comes out to about $30k for the first six months plus a lot more in reserve.

The problem with CR is that since the last couple years, no legitimate payment processors will do business there anymore. There are lots of rogue processors that would still do it, but it puts us at risk of not having the money to pay players out. We could start taking bets that way tomorrow, but I can't do it because of those risks. Yes, there are plenty of casinos that operate there, but they are probably mostly rogue for a reason.

We are legally allowed to operate in CR right now. But we can't take bets. At least, definitely not from the EU or with EU processors or banks.

The 14% figure is based on my own calculation, from what we would have to pay to have a legitimate processor cover the risk of doing business with us while we're based in Costa Rica, by running our transactions un-coded through a secondary company in the EU. Of course, this means our assets could be frozen at any time. Again, an unacceptable risk. And for that privilege we would be paying 9% to the processors.

So... I might not be the best businessman, but I know when an option puts me at too much risk. And the one thing I DON'T want to happen is to start up and end up with a processor holding all my player funds, and be unable to pay players out. So I have to stop and wait. There's no other responsible choice.

I do think I could run it. I think so because I know it well, and because we already did a beta test with 100 players where me and a few friends kept things going smoothly, and that was before a lot of the bugs were worked out.

But when you take into account the taxes, the lawyers, the bureaucracies, the cost of preventing DOS that you mentioned, the attempts at blackmail, the cost of bank introductions and the amount you have to have just to open the necessary accounts... you almost need to be a sovereign to be able to do this. What's ironic is, you could have that much money and use it to open a scam operation; or you could try to do something straight like this, and if it were like any normal website and the world left you alone to do regular business, it wouldn't be a problem. But it isn't, the world doesn't leave you alone. The lawyers attack like starving mosquitoes.

This is the essence of what I've learned.

I think if I could open it to a thousand players, like a normal website with a cap on signups, I could make $4-5000 a month and be able to quit my day job. To be honest, that's the whole point of this. If that was stable, and I could hand it off, I'd sell it and start a new project. Unfortunately, I chose what has to be the hardest, most insane startup project anyone could try...and I'm still finding out every day just how deep the black hole goes...
 
Or you can come and have a ordinary job in Norway. The average monthly wage for 2010 was about $ 6600 :)

Anyway, good luck with your project. If it fails, I`m sure that you have the potential to join MG or somebody as a programmer. Maybe you are the one who will create Thunderstruck 3 :thumbsup:


We did Costa Rica because it cost us about $1000 to incorporate there. The next option up was Curacao, which needs a corporate structure in the EU, and comes out to about $30k for the first six months plus a lot more in reserve.

The problem with CR is that since the last couple years, no legitimate payment processors will do business there anymore. There are lots of rogue processors that would still do it, but it puts us at risk of not having the money to pay players out. We could start taking bets that way tomorrow, but I can't do it because of those risks. Yes, there are plenty of casinos that operate there, but they are probably mostly rogue for a reason.

We are legally allowed to operate in CR right now. But we can't take bets. At least, definitely not from the EU or with EU processors or banks.

The 14% figure is based on my own calculation, from what we would have to pay to have a legitimate processor cover the risk of doing business with us while we're based in Costa Rica, by running our transactions un-coded through a secondary company in the EU. Of course, this means our assets could be frozen at any time. Again, an unacceptable risk. And for that privilege we would be paying 9% to the processors.

So... I might not be the best businessman, but I know when an option puts me at too much risk. And the one thing I DON'T want to happen is to start up and end up with a processor holding all my player funds, and be unable to pay players out. So I have to stop and wait. There's no other responsible choice.

I do think I could run it. I think so because I know it well, and because we already did a beta test with 100 players where me and a few friends kept things going smoothly, and that was before a lot of the bugs were worked out.

But when you take into account the taxes, the lawyers, the bureaucracies, the cost of preventing DOS that you mentioned, the attempts at blackmail, the cost of bank introductions and the amount you have to have just to open the necessary accounts... you almost need to be a sovereign to be able to do this. What's ironic is, you could have that much money and use it to open a scam operation; or you could try to do something straight like this, and if it were like any normal website and the world left you alone to do regular business, it wouldn't be a problem. But it isn't, the world doesn't leave you alone. The lawyers attack like starving mosquitoes.

This is the essence of what I've learned.

I think if I could open it to a thousand players, like a normal website with a cap on signups, I could make $4-5000 a month and be able to quit my day job. To be honest, that's the whole point of this. If that was stable, and I could hand it off, I'd sell it and start a new project. Unfortunately, I chose what has to be the hardest, most insane startup project anyone could try...and I'm still finding out every day just how deep the black hole goes...
 

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