I think Piggs Peak owes me $20

lppa2004

Banned User
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Location
Lafayette, IN
Okay i am just going to paste 2 seperate posts that have been posted on other forums to make this easier...
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A quick heads up on piggs peak poker... I recently attempted to cash out and close my account, when i did my money was kept and my account disabled...


In this order, i deposited $20 in order to cash out the minimum amount so i could in essence close the account, i recived an email the next day from their poker manager Sandy Koor stating that i hadnt met the rake requirements for a bonus they gave me... However this is completely impossible since i had made two prior cash outs after the bonus was given.. one was approxiamtely 3 days later and the other was a weak after the bonus was given.. WHen i emailed back a bit angered by this Mr Koor replied back and said that i should get a lawyer and that they were keeping my money and disabling my account

So if you playt at Piggs Peak poker beware, they might feel like keeping your money if you decide to leave their cardroom.. And if you thought about playing there,, DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME ON THIEVES
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El Ing.. you can support the thieves all you like.. THey had no reason to keep that money... I made my rakes, if i didnt make the rakes how in the hell was i able to cash out two times prior when the bonus already had been given.. you can belive the liars or ypou can belive the player who was ripped off....

IF YOU DONT BELIVE ME... HERES A NETTELER READOUT OF DEPOSITS AND WITHDRAWALS

Date Description Debit(-) Credit(+) Curr. Status

FINAL DEPOSIT (the one stolen) Oct 4 12:44 Piggs Peak Poker $20.00 - USD Accepted
SECOND CASHIN Sep 26 08:13 Piggs Peak Poker - $75.00 USD Accepted
FIRST CASHIN Sep 18 06:47 Piggs Peak Poker - $50.00 USD Accepted
FIRST DEPOSIT Sep 14 17:30 Piggs Peak Poker $30.00 - USD Accepted

Now, if you notice... I opened the account on the 14th, the deposit would of been given on the 15th, i played many many hands between the 14th and the 18th and made a withdrawal for $50... the withdrawla came through... 1 week later after playing a bunch more and winning i made another withdrawal for $75.. then over a week later after playing quite a bit more at the cardroom.. I attempt to make the 3rd and final cashout and am met with a resposnse of they are keeping my money and disabling my account...

Now lets be honest here folks.., My chat was disabled by Prima not by Piggs Peak, the reason i chose to make the cashout was because of this, it was also the reason for me closing the account... The reson Piggs Peaks kept the money had nothign to do with that bonus, they done it because i told them i wanted my money and anted to close my account, when they realized they werent going to make anymore money off me.. they chose to keep my hard earned money, just like typical shady thieves

O and I do have the guts to post anywaher, i hadnt known about casino meister or ECORGA.. and i will make sure to contact them too
 
I'd like to hear more about why they disabled your chat. You must have done something pretty egregious to have them do this.
 
lppa2004 said:
.... DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME ON THIEVES
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El Ing.. you can support the thieves all you like.. .. you can belive the liars or ypou can belive the player who was ripped off....

.. they chose to keep my hard earned money, just like typical shady thieves
Language like this won't get you very far.

lppa2004 said:
O and I do have the guts to post anywaher, i hadnt known about casino meister or ECORGA.. and i will make sure to contact them too
eCogra has a policy of not assisting if postings like this are being made (bashing the casino in public). You can email Tex Reese to see if she'll make an exception. I would prefer that agrieved players refrain from these sort of postings as well. I'm on the road at the moment and won't be back to work until next Monday. You'll probably have to wait until then for me to do anything.
 
What are people suppose to do.. just sit back and accept that they are being ripped off, why is it so wrong to post that you have been ripped off by an online gaming site.. so what if im bashing them.. they deserve it for keeping my money when THEY are in the WRONG for doing so...

In my case i didnt even know of a route i could take to dispute or make a complaint, the only option i could think of using was to tell them i would spread the word of their dirty deeds.. In the process of doing so I learned about eCORGA and IGC and this place... Until then i was unaware of any other way to help setle a dispute.. The only option i came up with early on was to contact the national Gambling Board of South Africa, of whom would control Piggs Poker B&M Casino as well as i thought they would control the online sites... NGB never responded to my emails, that is when i decide to take things into my own hands and post on the forums i could find and at the very least warn others of the potential they may be ripped off...

So I personally feel as if I have done nothing wrong by posting to the forums... And i also dont feel im in the wrong for being upset and using words or phrases that convey my displeasure... It may not be professional, but the fact my hard earned money is being kept makes it hard for me to react to the situation in a proffesional manner... And i know im not the only human who would react this way..
 
damage done

whether it's true or not, i won't be gambling at "piggs". hearing negative comments about internet gambling sites is a sure turn off. i know there are two sides of a story but i would not risk my money to find out who is telling the truth. the damaged has been done.
 
well its looking more and more like im officially screwed... got my reply back from eCORGA... see below
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Dear Chris;

I appreciate the effort you have made to contact eCOGRA and explain your predicament. I do however regret that we are currently not in a position to become actively involved in the resolution of this issue, as eCOGRAs dispute mediation service is a benefit offered exclusively to players at casinos which are formally approved by eCOGRA


eCOGRAs efforts thus far have concentrated on the traditional casino games and our eGAP document is based on this. We do intend to bring Poker into our eGAP in the future but do not have the ability at the moment to assist you with your problem.



May I suggest that you contact the poker room again and try to settle this dispute amicably? If you do not receive a satisfactory conclusion to your query, that you then contact Microgaming Software Systems Limited (www.microgaming.com under contact general) who would be able to direct your query through the appropriate channels.
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Well that says it all... poker players get screwed while casino players get help.. what a load of crap... im beginning to think all these place are affiliated and all are shady businesses protecting their greedy intrests
 
lppa2004 said:
...Well that says it all... poker players get screwed while casino players get help.. what a load of crap... im beginning to think all these place are affiliated and all are shady businesses protecting their greedy intrests

If you would just mellow out, I'll take a look at this when I return.
 
You still haven't explained why they banned you from chat. That makes me think it has alot to do with this situation.
 
my chat being disabled by prima has nothing to do with this other than it is why i wanted to cash out from my prima accounts that had money remaining and move on.. i wasnt goin to remain on a network where my chat was disabled.. why would i?
 
lppa2004 said:
my chat being disabled by prima has nothing to do with this other than it is why i wanted to cash out from my prima accounts that had money remaining and move on.. i wasnt goin to remain on a network where my chat was disabled.. why would i?
No offense Ippa,but there must have been a reason for the diasbling of your chat. Did you ask them why, instead of taking the more drastic action of moving to another network. Actually,I am having a dispute with one of the Piggs Peak string of casinos but really, you shouldnt be calling them thieves. Let us know the facts of the case and everybdoy will judge them on their merits or demerits. I have had several cases of casinos not paying me but I just post facts and refrain from branding the casinos as rogues. This way,people see it in a different light and concentrate on the facts of the case. Just keep calm and I am sure bryan will work out something for you on his return.
 
His chat was disabled for abusive language. Why would he not answer that? A pattern of abuse that has continued on our forum and others. He has alienated any help he may have got from my wife or myself:
El Ing.. you can support the thieves all you like..

He totally disregarded PokerAnalysis.com's code of conduct for complaints after several warnings...Roeloff has replied to the guys complaints. This guy just doesn't get it and probably busted every muscle of commonsense that would have had this resolved quickly and amicably!

Meister, I suggest a read of the threads on our forum before extending help to this individual:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

After this topic was moved he started another in our PPP forum again ignoring our code of conduct:
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And yet another:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Any help we were prepared to offer was long ago withdrawn and my apologies to Piggs Peak Poker and forum members for allowing it to continue as long as it did.
 
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whatever... im tired of sitting back and waiting.. i want my money...

If PPP was so reputable of a business, they wouldnt hesitate to provide me the records of my rakes.. yet they havent even made an attempt to reply to my email reuesting this...

And im the one in the wrong.. im sick of this..

My chat being disabled had not one ounce of anything to do with PPP... yet again someone wants to use that crap as an excuse... we can continue this forver

And why should i tell you why my chat was disabled... you guys have only brought it up to draw attention away from the real problem and to make me look like the bad person.. well you know what... i think that sheds a bad light on you all just as well
 
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And why should i tell you why my chat was disabled... you guys have only brought it up to draw attention away from the real problem and to make me look like the bad person.. well you know what... i think that sheds a bad light on you all just as well

You did not say here your chat was disabled for foul language after several people asking why. You say why should you tell anyone...it seems to me to be a fundamental part of your initial problem...sheer abuse when faced with a minor issue that would have been dealt with promptly I am sure.

Congrats...you have been booted from the PA forums!
 
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it has nothing to do with my money being kept.. if they want to use that as reason well.. come one with that reason... thats a beauty of a reason.... because legally that has no merit as a reason to keep someone elses money.. if it were because i were cheating.. then fine they have a legitimate case to keep it... but i was not...

and since when is money being kept a minor issue, i think that makes it a major issue worth complaining about to the fullest... in my opinion, money being kept is completely unacceptable, whether its $1 or $1,000,000,000 thats being kept, its theft and deserves to be dealt with in any manner neccesary.

please define theft; here lets see what websters has to say:

Main Entry: theft
: LARCENY; broadly : a criminal taking of the property or services of another without consent
and ----
theft
n.
The act or an instance of stealing; larceny.
Obsolete. Something stolen.

Now if i am wrong, please point out how... PPP is keeping money without my consent.. which would make it theft.. therefore my earlier statement of calling them thieves is well within its bounds... How else am i too look at it.. i done nothing so wrong that warrants them legally keeping MY money. Its just not acceptable, and im not going to just accept it.. im going to post on it wherever until the issue is resolved.. and you closing the other threads was in bad taste.. i was well within guidlines.. i was doing nothing more than continuing to defend myself from the attacks of the PPP suporters and only continuing to provide facts into the case... apparently this is not something you want posted about someplace you are defending and supporting.. THE FACTS.. that is why i feel you closed the thread and moved it from the section that you use to support PPP,of course u dont want anymore bad press on someplace thats paying you.. i can understand, and relate.. but honestly, do i care right now?.. heck no... im out $20 at the moment... If you were in my shoes, you may very well be doing the exact same thing and feeling exactly the same way
 
Thanks for answering my question Deaning, I knew there had to be a good reason for Prima to disable someone's chat. They aren't going to do it willy-nilly.

So let me get this straight lppa, you had something less than $20 in your account, and deposited $20 to get it over the $20 withdrawl limit but now PPP is refusing your withdrawl? Please post their reply to you as to why they are refusing your withdrawl.

I think I would have just played it out or worked it up to over $20 rather than depositing more into a place I was leaving. Then if I did deposit $20 and they refused to give it back, I'd contact Neteller and file a formal complaint with them.
 
Now if i am wrong, please point out how... PPP is keeping money without my consent.. which would make it theft.. therefore my earlier statement of calling them thieves is well within its bounds... How else am i too look at it.. i done nothing so wrong that warrants them legally keeping MY money. Its just not acceptable, and im not going to just accept it.. im going to post on it wherever until the issue is resolved.. and you closing the other threads was in bad taste.. i was well within guidlines.. i was doing nothing more than continuing to defend myself from the attacks of the PPP suporters and only continuing to provide facts into the case... apparently this is not something you want posted about someplace you are defending and supporting.. THE FACTS.. that is why i feel you closed the thread and moved it from the section that you use to support PPP,of course u dont want anymore bad press on someplace thats paying you.. i can understand, and relate.. but honestly, do i care right now?.. heck no... im out $20 at the moment... If you were in my shoes, you may very well be doing the exact same thing and feeling exactly the same way

Umm...no, sorry, but this is NOT HOW YOU CONDUCT YOURSELF IN A DISPUTE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN RESOLVED PROMPTY! You have not posted according to our guidelines nor appear to have even perused them.

You are now banned from the PA forum and my apologies to Meister that this spilled over here. Good luck with your dispute. Cough.
 
BAN THE VICTIM.. THATS THE WAY TO DO IT...


I have asked you numerous times people to clear up this thing of how i handled it poorly... I want to know what steps a person who has no idea what steps to take or has never dealt with having their money taken from an online poker site.. What steps are we suppose to take...

You keep saying it would of been cleared up quickly and promptly.. well tell me WHAT I SHOULD HAVE DONE THEN... now dont forget, prior to the forums i had no clue where to turn and i was being ignored by PPP support...
 
i see denning failed to explain that the reason two more psts were made is they moved and locked the original threa... for what reason... that thread was dealing with a site that is keeping someones money.. but tthen of course you all want to belive PPP soooooo bad that your willing to stoop to the level of banning the victim and not to mention bad mouthing the victim..

ALl of my posts were in self defense and yet im the one banned... well guess what.. you may of banned me from posting under one name.. but apparently you cant stop me completely...

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Quote:
LET IT BE YOUR MONEY THEN, AND WELL SEE HOW FAST ITS YOU WHINING..

Its always considered whining.. until the shoe is on the other foot


Well the shoe is on my other foot.

GUESS WHAT? THAT OTHER SHOE? IT IS NOW IN YOUR ASS!

BOOTED

BYE, DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT....

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FYI, you forgot to lock the door as you boote me out.. awwww shucks.. the one you call unintelligent isnt so unintelligent now are they

Also, i want to know exactly how i broke your rules...
THE FOLLOWING IS QUITE VAGUE:
BASIC ETIQUETTE
Do unto others covers most of that..
We have the priviledge of having many of the leading poker rooms represented here. Many of these we have had personal dealings with over a period of time. They can help resolve any problems that may arise and we ask that this be treated with the respect it deserves.

They are not obligated, they are helping us to help you.

Problems should be addressed factually and politely and will result in speedier response than unfounded accusations
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I factually posted... i tried to be polite as i can be regarding my money being stolen from me.. but i was met with hostility from your members... and yet i see not one of them getting repriamnaded... your banning me was a mistake, but then thats okay.. remember this--- support thieves and eventually they will also steal from you..
 
First let it be known that when a poker room bans your chat you have done one (probably more) of the following:

1. Used a racial slur in chat
2. Made a threat to another player in chat
3. Habitually violate language rules
4. Constantly abuse/berate fish suckout artists
5. Accuse the software or poker room of being rogue in some way.

Even after those you have to do it enough times to get caught, or have players email support.

As for what Bryan says about posts here is where you went wrong, you dont call them thieves in a post and expect much help, I think we have all made angry posts but calling them thieves when your story obviously was incomplete was a bad idea. I made one about betcris that I feel was tasteful but got my point across although it was much more a service issue then what you have.

If you have really cashed out your deposit amount and all that is missing is this bonus be happy and move on, the fact that you are this abusive in the forums makes me imagine just what a joy you would be at a table and I am sure I know why you got chat banned.

In the future if you have an issue like this I would not abuse the management, especially in a situation like this with so many outs to get paid if that is right thing. If I remember correctly at Prima all the skins are their own banks unlike most if not all other rooms where one central room holds it all. You could have gone to Prima if Piggs Peak didnt get it right in your opinion, then gone from there. Since you have surely pissed PP off beyond belief it is time to give up and rethink your strategy on what you will do if this ever happens again, you surely have not made any friends during this temper tantrum and forum owners will always remember this.
 
pokeraddict said:
First let it be known that when a poker room bans your chat you have done one (probably more) of the following:

1. Used a racial slur in chat
2. Made a threat to another player in chat
3. Habitually violate language rules
4. Constantly abuse/berate fish suckout artists
5. Accuse the software or poker room of being rogue in some way.

Even after those you have to do it enough times to get caught, or have players email support.

If you have really cashed out your deposit amount and all that is missing is this bonus be happy and move on, the fact that you are this abusive in the forums makes me imagine just what a joy you would be at a table and I am sure I know why you got chat banned.

You read my mind pokeraddict. :thumbsup:
 
Ok, let's assume he did break one of these rules about chatting @ a table. Let's further assume he did it over and over, enough times that his chat was turned off because of this. He has never answered to this claim so therefore it will have to remain an assumption for now. Tit-for-tat, as some would say, right or wrong he felt his business would be better spent somewhere else. It is a natural progression of things therefore to take your money with you when you leave. If I am understanding things correctly he deposited some cash in order to acheive the withdraw requirements, attempted to withdraw and was denied. The question we should be asking is why? Unless there is something in the T&C's that state the poker room can keep your money if they deem you are unworthy of having it, then they should pay the man and they can both be done with each other. His original post clearly shows his deposit/withdraw times from neteller, unles they were modified or fabricated then this shows the "bonus" the poker room is using as an excuse for no-payment is wrong.
Let's simplify this a bit, say I walk into a 7-11 (all night store in the U.S.) and had a few drinks in me. I stumble around and get my nacho's, my soda, and a few twinkies to eat. I go to the counter and pay for my things, I give the cashier a $50.00 bill, and during the wait for my change I make some drunken racial slur to a customer waiting in line behind me. I am warned by the manager of the store to not do that again, but the gin is talking for me at this point and I ignore the warning. I am told to leave the store.
The question is this...do I get to take the things I paid for? Do I get my change? I did something really really wrong in the store, I made repeated racial slur's to another customer, was told to stop, and didn't, then I was told to leave. Fact is though, the store cannot keep my change because I did those things. They cannot refuse to give me the product's I paid for. They could put their items back on the shelf and give me my orginal $50.00 back. But the fact remains they must either give me my money back or give me my food and approiate change.
It would appear (and yes appereances can be decieving) that the man wanted every last cent that he was entitled to before he and the poker-room parted ways. REGARDLESS of the reason. The poker room does not have a leg to stand on at this point. I don't care WHAT he said in his chat logs, the poker room needs to pay this guy the money HE deposited.
It would also appear that posting his issue in forums designed for this type of issue would be the only recourse. Faliure of the poker room to respond to his email's and locking his account so support cannot respond to his claim, in my opinion set the tone for him. Sure its easy to jump on the side of the casino/poker room, and it would be natural to do so if your forum is making money off of the poker room in question. But to say the poker room is right and the player is wrong because of some precieved chat log offense, is in very poor taste. Then to jump forum's and continue to put the PLAYER on the defensive is even worse.
If you feel the need to delete/move or even counter his post in your forum (deaning) then fine. But to openly attack him in this forum, when the owner of this forum has let the thread grow with little imput other then telling the player to mellow out, is again in poor taste.
This is my opinion only, and if the player is deemed to be wrong and the meister finds on the side of the poker room then so be it. You accused the player of blackmailing the poker room by posting on public forums, but then you challenged him to post here...with the intent of further trashing him and his issue in an obvious attempt to sway the opinion of the meister. Shame on you. If you want to do this in your forum go ahead, but keep your smearing of players there. The casinomeister has a reputation of nailing dirtbag players and dirtbag casinos, and since the player followed YOUR advice, and posted here, then let well enough alone. Until judgement is passed consider me in the players corner.
 
Thank You... I have been trying to say that all along... Just not as good with my words as that, plus its harder when im dealing with the emotions of losing my money to remain calm and collective.. but very well put m249a
 
I am afraid you have a few major misperceptions:

If you feel the need to delete/move or even counter his post in your forum (deaning) then fine. But to openly attack him in this forum, when the owner of this forum has let the thread grow with little imput other then telling the player to mellow out, is again in poor taste.
This is my opinion only, and if the player is deemed to be wrong and the meister finds on the side of the poker room then so be it. You accused the player of blackmailing the poker room by posting on public forums, but then you challenged him to post here...with the intent of further trashing him and his issue in an obvious attempt to sway the opinion of the meister. Shame on you. If you want to do this in your forum go ahead, but keep your smearing of players there. The casinomeister has a reputation of nailing dirtbag players and dirtbag casinos, and since the player followed YOUR advice, and posted here, then let well enough alone. Until judgement is passed consider me in the players corner.

A. I have not accused him of blackmailing, you are confusing me with another poster?

B. I never challenged him to post here...that was at the suggestion of none other than PPP themselves (Piggs Peak Poker) QUITE SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE MEISTER'S FAIR HANDED REPUTATION.

I simply reminded him several times of our rules regarding the posting of disputes which he chose to ignore. As to smearing I think he has done quite an adequate job of that himself. ;)

I certainly don't feel I have attacked him in this forum. My apologies to anyone that thinks I have and as previously stated it is unfortunate that it spilled over here.
 
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I would still like to see the email they sent you stating that they weren't going to pay your withdrawl. I think that is VERY relevant to the discussion, since they are claiming you didn't meet the wagering requirements of a bonus you received.

M249a, your 7-11 store example would be relevant if they had given you free money when you walked in the store the first time and told you that you had to buy x number of items before you could get any change in subsequent transactions. Other than that, its not nearly comparable.

As usual, its a problem related to bonus wagering requirements and gets more convoluted when the other issues are piled on.
 

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